How do I stop self blaming

[trustyourself]

Even though I know I am not the cause or the problem in my breakup, I still constantly think we can work it out if I fix this or fix that. That maybe if I hadn't done this the result would have been different.

 

But its her. She didn't want me, or our relationship enough to make changes, to grow, to mature.

 

She runs away at the first sign of difficulty. But I still blame myself at times.

 

I just wish she would grow up and face life, and stop running away from it. We could have been great. We were great. Until we were not anymore.

 

Its so broken now. I love her so much, but she has screwed me over too many times. I cant take her back next time. But I can still see myself being suckered and doing it. How do I build the strength to resist?

 

I thought 6 months would have been enough, but as soon as she said she wanted me back, I caved immediately. That lasted 3 weeks until she decided we couldn't be fixed. Now I dread the day she tries to contact me again.

 

I have blocked her on everything. God I hope she leaves me alone this time. (And as I type that, the voice in the back of my head says the complete opposite.)

 

How do I break this cycle? How do I realize its her, not me?

 

I am a grown man, but this childish woman has a hold over me like nothing I have experienced before.

 

Why cant I let go?

[Chilli]

Of course your just suppose to say enough is enough and walk.

But, easier said , l know, been there.

And you know she's bad news and won't change anytime soon , but still easier said, l know it.

 

So your just gonna need enough kicks in the head like l did until you finally really, have just had enough.

[SevenCity]

It takes two to have or not have a RL. It's great to reflect on what you could have done differently but don't dwell on it. Use it as a basis for improvement. Realize if she cared enough she would be right by your side working on things.

 

If you keep taking her back she'll realize she's got you on her hook and can have you whenever she wants. There is no sense of anxiety on her behalf.

 

Break the cycle. Realize that you deserve better (again, easier said than done).

 

But, eventually you'll reach a point where it's too much. Get on with your life and find another woman who doesn't act like this. That will give you the strength you need to say no.

[trustyourself]

It takes two to have or not have a RL. It's great to reflect on what you could have done differently but don't dwell on it. Use it as a basis for improvement. Realize if she cared enough she would be right by your side working on things.

 

If you keep taking her back she'll realize she's got you on her hook and can have you whenever she wants. There is no sense of anxiety on her behalf.

 

Break the cycle. Realize that you deserve better (again, easier said than done).

 

But, eventually you'll reach a point where it's too much. Get on with your life and find another woman who doesn't act like this. That will give you the strength you need to say no.

 

Thanks SevenCity, you are spot on.

 

Its amazing how the heart and the mind play tricks on you. I realize this is a result of her eroding my self confidence, which in return makes me doubt and question everything.

 

I have never experienced a pull to someone like this before, and its hard to imagine life without her. But I know for my own sanity, I need to cut ties and move on.

 

I know thats what I need to do, yet my mind plays tricks. "Give her a year or two to grow up and we can try again and be amazing."

 

Whats wrong with you stupid brain!??

[SevenCity]

Thanks SevenCity, you are spot on.

 

Its amazing how the heart and the mind play tricks on you. I realize this is a result of her eroding my self confidence, which in return makes me doubt and question everything.

 

I have never experienced a pull to someone like this before, and its hard to imagine life without her. But I know for my own sanity, I need to cut ties and move on.

 

I know thats what I need to do, yet my mind plays tricks. "Give her a year or two to grow up and we can try again and be amazing."

 

Whats wrong with you stupid brain!??

 

The erosion of self confidence is common when a man gets dumped. That's why you need to get other women ASAP.

 

It's amazing how it rebuilds your self worth when another girl is blowing up your phone. When you get dumped you feel worthless. Recognizing your value puts you back in control.

 

Then you look at one who can't wait to see you, and your ex who treated you like yesterday's trash.

 

It's much nicer to be wanted than rejected.

[Monopoly]

Even though I know I am not the cause or the problem in my breakup, I still constantly think we can work it out if I fix this or fix that. That maybe if I hadn't done this the result would have been different.

 

But its her. She didn't want me, or our relationship enough to make changes, to grow, to mature.

 

She runs away at the first sign of difficulty. But I still blame myself at times.

 

I just wish she would grow up and face life, and stop running away from it. We could have been great. We were great. Until we were not anymore.

 

Its so broken now. I love her so much, but she has screwed me over too many times. I cant take her back next time. But I can still see myself being suckered and doing it. How do I build the strength to resist?

 

I thought 6 months would have been enough, but as soon as she said she wanted me back, I caved immediately. That lasted 3 weeks until she decided we couldn't be fixed. Now I dread the day she tries to contact me again.

 

I have blocked her on everything. God I hope she leaves me alone this time. (And as I type that, the voice in the back of my head says the complete opposite.)

 

How do I break this cycle? How do I realize its her, not me?

 

I am a grown man, but this childish woman has a hold over me like nothing I have experienced before.

 

Why cant I let go?

 

I coud have written this, with the same words. I feel you. Running away each time something doesn't work right and I blame myself. Coming back when it's convenient and I'm there. I hate myself for being so weak.

[trustyourself]

Just an update.

 

She immediately started seeing someone else.

 

This has destroyed me. I thought she was such a beautiful person when we were first together. Now I realize it was all a lie.

 

She just cares about herself, and having fun in the moment. Everything we had was a lie. How can you go from telling someone you love them and want a future together, and a week later be with someone else. It defies belief.

 

How will I ever trust someone again?

 

And the worst part is my close friends all said the same thing. She will be back at some point.

 

I just want her to leave me the hell alone now. This is the final straw.

 

It makes sense. She made friends on a recent trip, and I noticed her pull away. I called her on it, and she said they were just friends, nothing happened.

 

Yeah right. So now I can add cheating to the list of things this soulless woman has done to me.

[Downtown]

I feel like if my ex does have BPD [borderline Personality Disorder]. [Your 7/29 post.]

Trust, apparently you've been seriously considering the possibility of seeing a strong pattern of BPD symptoms since Jamili suggested it in his 3/28 post. I therefore was glad to read today in GoBronc's thread that you found the information on BPD warning signs to be so helpful.

 

I caution that, instead of thinking of your Ex as "having BPD," you should think of her as exhibiting strong BPD symptoms (if that is what you're seeing). I mention this distinction because we all exhibit BPD symptoms and, at various points in our lives, we are at different positions on the BPD spectrum. That is, we all occasionally experience temporary flareups of our BPD traits.

 

Hence, when a psychologist declares that a person "has BPD," what he is really saying is that this person exhibits full-blown BPD, i.e., satisfies 100% of the diagnostic criteria. This is not a true diagnosis, however, because the real purpose of diagnosis is to identify the underlying cause of the symptoms, not to say how severe those symptoms are.

 

Yet, because psychologists are still unable to identify the underlying causes of mental illnesses, they use the term "diagnosis" to mean that a set of symptoms is found to be so severe that those symptoms warrant treatment (but the underlying disorder itself is neither identified nor treated). In that very limited sense of the term, the bright line drawn by "diagnosis" is primarily valuable only to insurance companies (which don't want to pay for treatment) and courts (which don't want to institutionalize people).

 

She told me that when she wasn't around me, she just sat at home thinking I was texting or hanging out with other girls and it drove her crazy. [3/20 post.]

If she exhibits strong BPD traits, her greatest fear is that of abandonment. That fear will be so great that she will oftentimes see "abandonment" threats where they don't even exist, e.g., her many false accusations of you cheating.

 

She is just a confused individual, who needs to grow emotionally. [3/22]

If her BPD traits are strong and persistent, she likely has the emotional skills of a four year old. Hence, her "growing emotionally" -- as you say -- would require her to replace her primitive ego defenses with more mature skills. These include how to self sooth; how to regulate her own emotions; how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as "facts"; how to trust others; how to be "mindful" (i.e., to remain in the room instead of escaping in daydreams to the past or future); how to perceive "object constancy" (i.e., to see that your personality is essentially unchanged day to day, even when you are angry with her); and how to avoid black-white thinking by learning to tolerate strong mixed feelings, uncertainties, ambiguities, and the other gray areas of interpersonal relationships.

 

She called me a liar and a manipulator and that she could not trust me. But when she called 3 weeks ago, not a mention of that, and she said all she remembers is the great times we had, and how it was so much fun. [3/28]

As you know from reading GoBronc's thread, these rapid flips between devaluing you (i.e., splitting you black) and adoring you (splitting you white) are called "black-white thinking." If she exhibits this type of all-or-nothing thinking frequently, it likely is because she is too emotionally immature to tolerate having to deal with strong conflicting feelings at the same time. Her subconscious therefore will "split off" the conflicting feeling (e.g., love), putting it far out of reach of her conscious mind. You will see this same behavior occurring many times a day in young children.

 

For this reason, there is a very good chance that your Ex will eventually split you white again and will try to pull you back into the toxic relationship. I say there is "a very good chance" of that happening because there is no guarantee it will occur again. As Sweetfish cautioned you in his 3/30 post, if your Ex is a BPDer "you may be cast as black forever."

 

I see that she is incapable of a stable relationship. I would never be able to trust her or be confident in her commitment. [7/20]

If your Ex exhibits strong BPD traits as you believe, she is so unstable that she cannot trust herself. Until she learns how to do that, she is incapable of trusting you for any extended period. Significantly, when a woman cannot trust you, then you can never trust HER -- because she can turn on you at any time, as you've already seen many times.

[trustyourself]

Trust, apparently you've been seriously considering the possibility of seeing a strong pattern of BPD symptoms since

 

For this reason, there is a very good chance that your Ex will eventually split you white again and will try to pull you back into the toxic relationship. I say there is "a very good chance" of that happening because there is no guarantee it will occur again. As Sweetfish cautioned you in his 3/30 post, if your Ex is a BPDer "you may be cast as black forever."

 

If your Ex exhibits strong BPD traits as you believe, she is so unstable that she cannot trust herself. Until she learns how to do that, she is incapable of trusting you for any extended period. Significantly, when a woman cannot trust you, then you can never trust HER -- because she can turn on you at any time, as you've already seen many times.

 

@Downtown,

 

Wow, thank you for taking the time for such a detailed response!

 

I totally get what you are saying in regard to her just showing traits. I am curious to the possibility that a shocking life event can elevate the traits though? About 6 months in, she had a very traumatic incident during a surgery where she almost died from internal bleeding. I feel like that changed her somehow. Is that a possibility?

 

As for the black white thinking, I guess I should add a few details to my most recent break up with her to see if I have been "Cast Black" permanantly.

 

So as far as I am aware (based on our conversations) was that her parents did not approve of our attempted reconcilliation. Before her trip to visit her sister, everything seemed to be great. But apparently her dad had a conversation while taking her to the airport, and said that he completely dissaproved and basically forbade her from seeing me. He was quite angry I suppose.

 

She continued to text me and call me with much adoration. She met up with her sister and apparently her sister did not approve of us talking either (our last break up was quite messy, with lots of arguing) and said I we were not good for each other.

 

Anyway, she was still being super affectionate, and then suddenly disconnected. She told me she had met new friends (Turns out it was a bunch of guys) and she was hanging out with them. I am guessing she hooked up with the guy she is now possibly seeing. She became very distant with me, and when she got back, we arranged to meet up on the Friday. I was suspicious due to the distance she was showing, so we ended up having an argument about these guys she met. She spent the night, and then ghosted me for two days until the break up. (The morning she left, she did get upset and cry. She said maybe her family was right. I tried to calm her down, which succeeded, but I guess I saw it coming at that point. I feel bad, but the lack of trust that caused the argument on my end seems valid now this guy is in the picture)

 

Now... How easily influenced are people with BPD symptoms? I never believed her capable of cheating, and maybe she did not, but I wonder if her families influence, plus the argument we had upon her return will cast me black forever?

 

She told me the day we broke up that A) she does not want to hurt me again. B)Her family has a right to believe we are not good for each other, and they will never accept our relationship. C) that maybe they are right that we can not make it work. She also told me that she met a nice guy who made her feel good about herself, but they were just friends at this point.

 

Then proceeded to say we have no trust, and maybe she was too quick to think we could fix something that could not be fixed.

 

I am guessing she just found someone new to latch on to that excites her, and the rest is an excuse? That is fine, but I am just trying to figure out if I will be cast white again and she will be back in touch so I can prepare myself. I am guessing no, as her family will never approve.

 

Also, I am curious as to how her family are unaware of the traits she has? Are they able to put on a front, or maybe she is just as dramatic at home?

 

I would love to hear some feedback from you Downtown. I know you dont have specific answers into her mindset, but I am just trying to understand.

 

Thank you.

Edited August 1, 2017 by trustyourself
added a detail

[Downtown]

About 6 months in, she had a very traumatic incident during a surgery where she almost died from internal bleeding. I feel like that changed her somehow. Is that a possibility?

Yes, Trust, anything is possible. Yet, if she exhibits strong and persistent BPD traits as you suspect, her issue almost certainly started in early childhood.

 

How easily influenced are people with BPD symptoms?

Quite easily. It is common for a ex-partner to complain that, after his BPDer Ex left him, she started hanging out with a guy (e.g., a biker) who is nothing like him. With BPDers, this effortless movement from one group of people (e.g., attorneys) to another (e.g., bikers) occurs because a BPDer's self identity is so fragile and unstable that she will mirror the personality of whomever she happens to be enjoy being around. This usually is not done to be manipulating but, rather, to fit in and be accepted.

 

Moreover, given that she has no strong internal self image to guide her, she does the mirroring out of necessity -- as a way to acquire the self identity she so sorely needs. This does not mean, however, that the BPDer will appreciate you for supplying that identity and sense of direction. After you've spent many months providing what she so desperately wants, she will start resenting you for "controlling" and suffocating her. Like a young child, she will resent you for parenting her and providing the centering and grounding that she lacks.

 

I wonder if her families influence, plus the argument we had upon her return will cast me black forever?

Well, it didn't remain permanent the last 3 times you broke up and reconciled. So she likely will return eventually. But maybe not. With an unstable person, however, you can never be certain about what she will choose to do next.

 

I am guessing she just found someone new to latch on to that excites her, and the rest is an excuse?

Sounds like a good guess to me.

 

I am curious as to how her family are unaware of the traits she has? Are they able to put on a front, or maybe she is just as dramatic at home?

If she is a BPDer, her two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) can be triggered by anyone who draws close to her. This includes lovers, close family members, and close friends. If you've not yet done so, Trust, you may want to take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar and seem to apply strongly to her behaviors.

[trustyourself]

I saw her last night.

 

I was standing outside a bar, and she was walking towards me with a guy. I knew it was her before she was even close enough to see her face.

 

She saw me and we just looked at each other as they walked past me. She looked shocked and guilty.

 

I just let her walk by. Then 3 minutes later I get a text. "I'm sorry"

 

It has destroyed me. I finished my drink and left. Went home and just broke down. Crying. Sobbing.

 

This morning is no better. Im devastated and feel like I am back to square one.

 

Im not sure whats worse. Seeing her. Seeing her with someone else. Or the text.

[Downtown]

This morning is no better. Im devastated and feel like I am back to square one.

Yes, Trust, that's how recovery will feel periodically, especially when you've seen your exGF or seen something else that triggers the old feelings. You will feel like you're "back to square one." But don't believe it. You're making good progress. Yet, like healing from a sprained ankle, healing from a breakup -- especially when it is from an addictive, toxic relationship -- does not proceed in a linear path.

 

Instead, it is full of fits and starts and days of slow recovery. But, if you stay the course, you'll do fine. If things get too painful, however, it may be prudent to see a therapist for guidance or a doctor for 30-day supply of an antidepressant.

[trustyourself]

Yes, Trust, that's how recovery will feel periodically, especially when you've seen your exGF or seen something else that triggers the old feelings. You will feel like you're "back to square one." But don't believe it. You're making good progress. Yet, like healing from a sprained ankle, healing from a breakup -- especially when it is from an addictive, toxic relationship -- does not proceed in a linear path.

 

Instead, it is full of fits and starts and days of slow recovery. But, if you stay the course, you'll do fine. If things get too painful, however, it may be prudent to see a therapist for guidance or a doctor for 30-day supply of an antidepressant.

 

Thanks Downtown.

 

I have spent the day processing it. It hurts, but i cant change her choice. I guess she has painted me black, and is showing her fear of being alone and moving on with a replacement/s.

 

It hurt to see her. She looked really good. But I could see she is still unhappy.

 

I just dont get the text. I guess its just guilt..

 

I have been fighting the urge to respond all day. I have not, because what is there to say?

[Downtown]

I just dont get the text. I guess its just guilt.

Why does it matter what it means? As you know all too well, Trust, her meaning and intentions today can flip 180 degrees in ten seconds a week from now. Hence, whatever she means today reflects only what intense feeling she is experiencing AT THIS VERY MOMENT. As soon as those intense feelings change -- and they WILL change -- her meaning and intent will change right along with the feelings. That's how emotionally unstable people behave.

 

I have been fighting the urge to respond all day. I have not, because what is there to say?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing that will make a real difference. You are making a wise decision.

[Sweetfish]

Thanks Downtown.

 

I have spent the day processing it. It hurts, but i cant change her choice. I guess she has painted me black, and is showing her fear of being alone and moving on with a replacement/s.

 

It hurt to see her. She looked really good. But I could see she is still unhappy.

 

I just dont get the text. I guess its just guilt..

 

I have been fighting the urge to respond all day. I have not, because what is there to say?

 

 

You need to take this moment and take in consideration you have develop a codependent lifestyle. You finally see the real person and who they are and you blame your self. You blame your self because you don't take pride in your own self. Let me guess you put more effort in the relationship or her than your own self. This is the curse of a codependent. This is the curse of an individual that needs someone else to feel a sense of worth. She is not sorry... she bailed ship because she found something else. Learn to be dependent and work on you and slowly you will have people attracted to you. If you're crying and beating your self up there is nothing she will regret. You will not move on and you will not gain self worth... you will be looking for some other deity to again put your efforts into.

 

 

In regards to Cluster B individuals like BPDers as downtown said.. because cluster B individuals have a problem with identity and unstable self image they typically mirror people or groups. Cluster B individuals core problem is abandonment and they believe that abandonment is due to their true self usually link to a parent (Mom or Dad). So they mirror people to avoid this fear of abandonment because it protects them. Eventually, the mirror will 'crack' the true person is exposed and you are split into the black. The person will find another individual to mirror and they never hammer out a true identity..because it takes years to develop your self. The only identity that is real is hidden and never develops past the point of trauma usually when they were a child and those childlike reflexes never become adult reflexes. MRI scans show this brain does not develop into adult hood.

 

This is assuming she is a BPD or has BPD traits.

[trustyourself]

She contacted me again. After 4 months NC.

 

About a month ago, she contacted me to return some items. I did not respond for 24 hours, and then I got curious I suppose and agreed to meet up (I know, I am an idiot)

 

We met up at a bar, and she walked in, and her face lit up. She gave me a big hug, and then sat next to me. We were facing each other, and she sat so close our legs were basically intertwined.

 

We caught up for a bit, and then she brought up our past relationship. She apologized for her part, and gave her reasons for why she was the way she was, in such a way like we could make it work. I told her it didnt matter because her family did not approve (We argued on the phone during our breakup and they thought we were bad for eachother as a result). Her response was that if they saw she was happy, they would be happy in time.

she was touchy feely the whole time. Kept on touching my face, saying she missed it. We talked more, and eventually I asked if she was seeing someone. She said yes, that she had been dating someone for about 6 weeks. I told her I was happy for her.

 

After about two hours and two drinks, I told her I had to leave, as I had plans. We walked out together, and she asked if I could wait with her for her taxi to arrive. We were standing outside, and she kept on hugging me, telling me that I smelt so good and that she missed my scent. Then she came in for a third hug and kissed me. We embraced like that for about 10 seconds. I disengaged and she said 'whoops, that just happened' and tried to laugh it off. Her cab arrived, and she maintained eye contact with me the entire time until the cab drove away.

 

Thirty minutes later she texted me. It was a strange text. She said 'Would you have babies with me' I responded with: 'If you are asking if I saw a future with you, then yes' and she responded 'okay ' I told her I had a good time and said goodnight.

 

Over the next week she texted me every couple of days, even with Good morning texts (Friends dont do that?) and would ask what I was up to, talk about random things.

 

The next weekend, she arranged to meet up for breakfast on Sunday, and obviously I had no idea what this all was. So we went out for breakfast, and then went for a walk afterwards. Things were a little awkward this time round. I eventually brought up the elephant in the room. I asked if I could ask her a questions. She said yes, and I chickened out and said never mind. She responded with 'I dont know'. I asked her what she thought the question was, and she said 'what is this?'. Bingo.

 

We proceeded to have a talk, in which she said she was still confused and lost, and needed to work on herself more. That it was obvious we had a crazy connection, or else she would not be here etc etc. I told her that I agree that we do, but if she is seeing someone else, I cant be her friend, and that we should not talk anymore. She agreed. Told me that she thought the same, and she owed it to this guy to give it a chance. She said she wouldn't contact me for 'a while'. I told her not to contact me unless she has figured herself out, and wanted to talk about giving it another go, but that I was not waiting around.

 

I walked her back to her car, we hugged goodbye and she left. Its now been one month NC, and last week I blocked her from my social media as she kept liking my instagram posts (open profile) and I felt it was a hook from completely letting go.

 

I don't really need advice on going NC, as I have done that fully now, and I have accepted that we are likely not going to get back together. I am actually getting to an ok place now, and I am happy just working on myself.

 

I guess I just wanted to update you guys. I think it is odd that she keeps re-engaging.

[SevenCity]

Uhg. That sucks. There are so many things wrong with what she did. Led you on, cheated on this guy by kissing you, etc.

 

It’s amazing how selfish people, especially those who claimed they loved you, can be.

 

Of all the sumbbag things I’ve done in my day I’ve never led a woman on like this.

 

It sounds like you are in a good place despite. I’m happy for that.

[Downtown]

I think it is odd that she keeps re-engaging.

Trust, thanks for returning to give us an update. As to her re-engaging, that is to be expected if she is a BPDer. Because a BPDer has a fragile, unstable sense of who she is, she has a strong desire to be with a man who can provide the missing self identity, which so sorely needs. This is why a BPDer typically HATES to be alone by herself for very long. Moreover, a BPDer has a great fear of abandonment.

 

For these two reasons, a BPDer oftentimes will create a love triangle where she plays two guys off of each other. In that way, she always has a Plan B guy to go to for "self identity." And she has a fall-back guy in case she is abandoned by the other. Further, she is able to play one guy off against the other. Half the time guy-1 will be "The Perpetrator" and guy-2 will be "The Rescuer." The other half of the time she will flip their roles. Regardless of whom is playing which role, the BPDer receives the frequent "validation" she needs of being "The Victim," always "The Victim."

[trustyourself]

Trust, thanks for returning to give us an update. As to her re-engaging, that is to be expected if she is a BPDer. Because a BPDer has a fragile, unstable sense of who she is, she has a strong desire to be with a man who can provide the missing self identity, which so sorely needs. This is why a BPDer typically HATES to be alone by herself for very long. Moreover, a BPDer has a great fear of abandonment.

 

For these two reasons, a BPDer oftentimes will create a love triangle where she plays two guys off of each other. In that way, she always has a Plan B guy to go to for "self identity." And she has a fall-back guy in case she is abandoned by the other. Further, she is able to play one guy off against the other. Half the time guy-1 will be "The Perpetrator" and guy-2 will be "The Rescuer." The other half of the time she will flip their roles. Regardless of whom is playing which role, the BPDer receives the frequent "validation" she needs of being "The Victim," always "The Victim."

 

Hi Downtown,

 

Thanks for the feedback. I feel like that first paragraph is a great depiction of her. She certainly does not like being alone, and seems to not take long between relationships. What is interesting recently is that she seems to recognize this in herself. She talked a lot about how lost and confused and lonely she has been this year.

 

In a way I almost feel sorry for the guy she is seeing, as I am sure it will not end well.

 

As for your last paragraph, it is certainly possible that is what is happening. But if she was doing this, would she not be in regular contact? We agreed to go NC almost on a mutual level, albeit for different reasons. Maybe she was expecting me to fight for her? Instead I told her that I wont communicate with her because she is dating someone else.

 

Anyway, while this set me back a little, it was actually quite cathartic, and I am starting to let go a little easier, and realize that I cant hold on to hope that we will miraculously fix our issues and get back together.

 

I guess I haven't been painted permanently black like I thought. 4 months of radio silence had certainly made me think so. So I guess I should be expecting to hear from her again at some point?

[Downtown]

So I guess I should be expecting to hear from her again at some point?

Sure sounds like it, Trust.