Approaching women in public (?)

[randomvariable]

Hi.

 

I have a question that is at the same time overly broad as well as specific. I would like to know what people think are appropriate circumstances to approach a woman one doesn’t know and potentially ask her out. This may not seem like too puzzling a matter, but I’m an introvert and don’t have a broad social circle beyond work, nor do I have particularly ‘extroverted interests.’

 

So, when where and how do you approach a woman you’re interested in that you don’t know? There doesn’t seem like an appropriate setting. I don’t think anyone likes to be interrupted at the gym; plus everyone has their earphones in. At the library (and the coffee shops too) everyone is either studying or working and not amenable to interruption. The pharmacy? The grocery store? Doesn’t seem right. It seems, for me at least, I can go through an entire day (and basically everyday) where there could be an appropriate opportunity to approach a woman I was interested in.

 

Even in a setting where (per conventional wisdom, at least) meeting strangers is supposed to be easiest (that are kind of designed for it), i.e., bars, it doesn’t seem that simple. Nearly everyone (often literally everyone) is there with a friend or group of friends and don’t want to be intruded on by strangers. And even if a woman is, say, at a bar by herself, it seems untoward and rather unsubtle to get up and go sit down next to her and start talking to her despite being a complete stranger. Most of the times I’ve managed to successfully strike up a conversation with a woman in that setting (which is a minority of attempts; usually if I say something they’ll just nod or give a terse response and look the other way or go back to their table) eventually either they have to leave or I do or their friends show up, and it’s just another “single serving friend” to borrow the term from Fight Club. The two times I can remember asking and getting their numbers they just never responded to my texts (though one of them I later saw again at a coffee shop and she saw me and acted like we were old friends, which was weird). So, what is the problem here? Am I just not being patient enough? Do I need to spend 3 hours sitting at a bar (which sounds rather boring?) for there to be a good chance anything auspicious happening?

 

By and large, it just seems women of my age group, 20s (probably the men too but that’s less relevant to me) have a strong aversion from interacting with strangers, or me at least. What’s the way around that? Is there a right setting or approach that has escaped me.

 

(addendum and pre-emptive disclaimer: yes I am familiar with online dating and precisely my lack of success in that realm has in part at least motivated me to post this)

[Bastile]

The two times I can remember asking and getting their numbers they just never responded to my texts (though one of them I later saw again at a coffee shop and she saw me and acted like we were old friends, which was weird). So, what is the problem here?

 

No problem. This is life.

 

Have to go through a lot of rejections. Loads of girls that are uninterested, unavailable, loads of numbers that go nowhere, and then flakes. Bad dates, blue balls, bad situations, etc.

 

I would say that approaching 20 women is enough to get me a new proper option in a week (talking very attractive girls). It's effort. But then consider that I can approach 5 of them in an afternoon easily, and you can see how it becomes something overtime that you learn to manage - along with other resources such as time, money, and everything else.

 

It's all like juggling. It's really hard, and often the balls hit the floor.

 

The problem is that there are completely unreasonable expectations regarding rejection. What you are likely to get based on how much effort you are willing to make.

 

Was having this conversation with my brother yesterday. It's all just effort.

[CptInsano]

There is never an "appropriate moment", meaning that making contact with strangers always contains an element of risk or possibly violating boundaries. However, most of these boundaries only exist in our heads.

 

Depending on what you are looking for, you may have to talk to even more women than Bastile indicated. I'm more relationship-oriented myself, and I would say that maybe one out of 100 times I approached a woman in public the result was a relationship. That being said, this doesn't mean that I would ask out a woman every time. The advantage of small-talk is that you get a good idea of the person you're interacting with right then and there, it is socially acceptable and reduces the number of bad dates.

 

There is also not a single right approach, Omnes viae Romam ducunt. Do what works for you, don't lock yourself into a single location (club) or type of interaction.

Edited July 15, 2017 by CptInsano

[SammySammy]

The problem is observation.

 

There's a difference between casual conversation and romantic interest.

 

There's nothing wrong with starting a casual conversation with anyone. I encourage you to practice that until approaching becomes easy and natural.

 

To go to the next level there needs to be an openness and willingness from both parties. Then, it's a matter of escalation. Pay attention to the signs - smile, eye contact, touch, pupils dialating, and so forth - then escalate. Take it to next level. Whatever that may be. Move to a different location to talk privately. Ask for phone number. Set up future date. Whatever.

 

Some don't approach until they see openness - a willingness to be approached - and some indicator of interest.

 

I don't think it matters how the interaction starts, just don't pursue romantic interest until you see it reciprocated. Then act.

 

If a woman shows no interest in you, don't try to pick her up. That only leads to frustration.

[preraph]

You don't want to ask out anyone you haven't even had a conversation with yet. I mean, you know nothing about them -- and they know nothing about you. You could be a serial killer. Plus you get marked down for asking someone out solely based on what they look like, although we know this goes on all the time.

 

If you've had a friendly mutual conversation with someone out in public, then you should ask if they're single and whether you can get their number. But like everyone has said, this is just about the hardest way to ask a woman out because people are generally on the move, plus you still don't know anything about them so it's a high likelihood it will lead nowhere.

 

Being an introvert shouldn't keep you from socializing with people. Introvert isn't the same as social anxiety. Introverts may enjoy self-study and reading and the ones I have known are very interested in learning through reading and know a lot about everything. But they may not like a big party unless they know people there and are just more introspective, but they're not antisocial or fearful and don't have trouble being a good employee. I have had many introvert friends, even some in bands performing in public. Two introverts together can make a good couple. Introverts don't usually have trouble making friends, though they may not be interested in having a circle of acquaintances and may prefer one-on-one a lot of the time with a close friend.

 

The advice is still "one size fits all" in that in order to make friends you have to be friendly, and that also applies to meeting the opposite sex.

[tetrahedral]

I would like to know what people think are appropriate circumstances to approach a woman one doesn’t know and potentially ask her out. This may not seem like too puzzling a matter, but I’m an introvert and don’t have a broad social circle beyond work, nor do I have particularly ‘extroverted interests.’

 

Not what you asked, but work on the bolded. Trying to meet a 20-something girl by approaching her in public is like choosing to derive equations from first principles instead of just the plugging numbers in.

 

So, when where and how do you approach a woman you’re interested in that you don’t know? There doesn’t seem like an appropriate setting. I don’t think anyone likes to be interrupted at the gym; plus everyone has their earphones in. At the library (and the coffee shops too) everyone is either studying or working and not amenable to interruption. The pharmacy? The grocery store? Doesn’t seem right. It seems, for me at least, I can go through an entire day (and basically everyday) where there could be an appropriate opportunity to approach a woman I was interested in.

 

Sounds to me like you're focusing too much on the setting.

 

Women want to be approached, by someone they want to be approached by, almost anywhere. They want to be approached, by someone they don't want to be approached by, nowhere.

 

My opinion (from experience) is that single people work alone at coffee shops, partly because they'd like to put themselves out there for a stranger. But it has to be the right stranger.

 

Even in a setting where (per conventional wisdom, at least) meeting strangers is supposed to be easiest (that are kind of designed for it), i.e., bars, it doesn’t seem that simple. Nearly everyone (often literally everyone) is there with a friend or group of friends and don’t want to be intruded on by strangers. And even if a woman is, say, at a bar by herself, it seems untoward and rather unsubtle to get up and go sit down next to her and start talking to her despite being a complete stranger.

 

Who cares if she's there with friends? You're there with friends, does that mean you don't want to talk to her? Of course not.

 

So, what is the problem here? Am I just not being patient enough? Do I need to spend 3 hours sitting at a bar (which sounds rather boring?) for there to be a good chance anything auspicious happening?

 

I'd guess you're doing a poor job of identifying women who are attracted to you.

 

I wouldn't sit at a bar if you have any intention of meeting girls. Find a place to dance. If the music is too quiet or there's nowhere to dance, either play billiards or get your friends to hang out somewhere nearish to the bar, where people will be going back and forth to get drinks. That way you have people coming to you.

 

By and large, it just seems women of my age group, 20s (probably the men too but that’s less relevant to me) have a strong aversion from interacting with strangers, or me at least. What’s the way around that? Is there a right setting or approach that has escaped me.

 

Just don't think of "approaching" women as a way of attracting them. There are things you can do to improve your first impression. But for the most part, what you're really doing by approaching her is revealing what's already there.

[OatsAndHall]

Lol... I used to get dates in college by frequenting the same grocery stores and gas stations when there was a cute clerk working. I'd chit chat with them for a few weeks and then I'd give them my number. Hell, I chatted with one for all of about ten minutes and had two dates with her. Yeah, I got shot down pretty hard a few times by women that found it creepy but, oh well. I didn't ask them for their number, I didn't make any sexual comments or innuendos; I just gave them my number and asked them out. I generally stopped frequenting the stores where these women worked because I didn't want to make them feel more uncomfortable as it is their place of employment. But, at the heart of it, I never felt like I did anything wrong.

 

As has been pointed out, there is no "right situation". You have to make that for yourself if you're going to take the "cold call approach". I do my grocery shopping at about the same time every week and run into a cute, single woman there more often than not. We've chatted in the check out line and in the aisles a few times and flirted a little bit. It probably won't be long before I ask her out.

 

I'm not big into the bar or club scene but there never a bad place to meet women either. Walk up to a woman, tell her you'd like to buy her a drink and point out where you'll be sitting if she'd like to take you up on it. No bull**** pick-up lines; just a simple offer. You might hit up twenty women at several different bars and get shot down more often than not but I will guarantee you'll get some dates from it.

 

Fortune favors the bold, my friend.

[rushed]

By and large, it just seems women of my age group, 20s (probably the men too but that’s less relevant to me) have a strong aversion from interacting with strangers, or me at least. What’s the way around that? Is there a right setting or approach that has escaped me.

 

There is a way, and it's ridiculously easy - Ask her for help.

 

It's you're walking down the street and you see a girl you'd like to talk to, "Excuse me, is this the right way to the library/Main Street/Whole Foods?" or "Do you know if there's a Starbucks around or anything place that has WiFi?"

 

At the store, "Do you happen to know where the dressing room/parchment paper/#7 screws are?"

 

At the train station/bus stop, "Can you tell me how to get to downtown?" "Do you know which side the X train will arrive on?"

 

At a bar/show, "Do you know if the band that's going to play is any good?"

 

Then gauge her reaction. If she looks at you mean, shrugs, or ignores you, continue on your way. She's not interested. If she answers you, see if she smiles or gives a lengthy answer or continues the conversation. You might have a chance.

 

All of the above situations have happened to me (the last two just last night). Now I've never been interested in any of the guys nor have I been single when any of that happened (I'll usually give them an answer to help them out, but then go about my way), but it's a great way to talk to someone without being too intrusive.

[Gold Pile]

If you don't have the gift of gab, try my minimal conversation method.

Approach groups (never a woman alone) of women and offer "it's sure a hot one today. .....would you mind if I air out my junk?"

 

A lone woman or possibly a couple of ladies will run away. But in groups of at least 3, one of them will say "go ahead". If you have the equipment you may score a date this way. But it sure is easier if you can develop conversation skills.

[Mysterio]

There are two schools of thought. Women that are strangers and woman that are basically aquintances.

 

For me Strangers never work in romantic approches for me. Women Aquintances only. Also I seem to get more Physical Affection/Romantic Attention when I am in a I Don't care type of mode. I don't know why that is.

 

When I am in Romantic mode. I am attentive, but not trying to get with them. I am respectful and kind and sweet, but I guess my assesement is off on the women I try to get romantically involved with. Its like it has to be very spontaneous and non methodical if there is a romantic attraction that will spark. If I go into a romantic situation with a woman and start doing things in a methodical mannor. It does not work for me 90% of the time.

 

Its like the Universe is saying to me. Chill out Mysterio. Don't make so much of an effort it will come to you. Its just that I won't have any idea when and where it will be.

[elaine567]

When you are in "romantic" mode you have an obvious agenda and that will be apparent to any women you meet. They will see your attempts at conversation as contrived, not genuine and maybe even "desperate".

"This guy just wants to get laid and he can go elsewhere..."

 

But in your "I do not care" mode it will all seem more "real", more "human", spontaneous, less contrived, more laid back, and thus more genuine. The real you...

[Mysterio]

How does one balance romantic attention vs being natural. I went out with a woman and It was a friends at first vibe. Then on the riverboat cruise she we were on. She told me she had a crush on me. Her stock went up with me a lot more than the friends part,

 

When I ask out a woman on a date. Getting laid is the last thing on my mind. Making out if the vibe arises is more prevalent. I am classy with my demeanor. There is no major heaviness. As long as we are aquinted. Also. Women over 20 have to realize that at least 90 percent of the men want them romantically first. They don't want to be hanging out with women where they don't get affection on a regular basis. I could see maybe 2 female friends, bit the third or fourth one is a romantic prospect.

 

I don't really want any more female friends, because I have about 6 or so and thats enough for me.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

There is a way, and it's ridiculously easy - Ask her for help.

 

It's you're walking down the street and you see a girl you'd like to talk to, "Excuse me, is this the right way to the library/Main Street/Whole Foods?" or "Do you know if there's a Starbucks around or anything place that has WiFi?"

 

At the store, "Do you happen to know where the dressing room/parchment paper/#7 screws are?"

 

At the train station/bus stop, "Can you tell me how to get to downtown?" "Do you know which side the X train will arrive on?"

 

At a bar/show, "Do you know if the band that's going to play is any good?"

 

Then gauge her reaction. If she looks at you mean, shrugs, or ignores you, continue on your way. She's not interested. If she answers you, see if she smiles or gives a lengthy answer or continues the conversation. You might have a chance.

 

All of the above situations have happened to me (the last two just last night). Now I've never been interested in any of the guys nor have I been single when any of that happened (I'll usually give them an answer to help them out, but then go about my way), but it's a great way to talk to someone without being too intrusive.

 

Parchment paper made me laugh!!

 

All good ideas.

 

Also, you could just try and ask for her number. Worst that happens is she says no and most women won't be nasty about it. I was out with a friend last week for dinner and man approached us and asked for my friend's number. She politely told him no, that she was married (which isn't true, but she was not interested), he asked why she wasn't wearing a ring....I can't remember what she said, but he was like "Ok" and left us alone. We didn't keep talking about him or make fun of him or anything.

[Chilli]

Ahh , my fav topic atm , thanks for the thread.

love the RL stuff , so refreshing , so real.

 

l'm not quite ready yet, ex business to sort, but there has been a few just lately and when l do feel ready , if l see someone that pushes enough buttons to make me bite that bullet, l will be and l'll file a report haha, right here.

 

Ps , thanks CO , that was nice to hear.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Chilli

[Mysterio]

Parchment paper made me laugh!!

 

All good ideas.

 

Also, you could just try and ask for her number. Worst that happens is she says no and most women won't be nasty about it. I was out with a friend last week for dinner and man approached us and asked for my friend's number. She politely told him no, that she was married (which isn't true, but she was not interested), he asked why she wasn't wearing a ring....I can't remember what she said, but he was like "Ok" and left us alone. We didn't keep talking about him or make fun of him or anything.

 

Cautious. Why did your friend have to lie. She could have said. My mind is not on dating anyone at the moment. If I go out with you. It will lead you on and I don't want you to waste your time with me. When there is someone more suitable for you.

[shoplocal]

Cautious. Why did your friend have to lie. She could have said. My mind is not on dating anyone at the moment. If I go out with you. It will lead you on and I don't want you to waste your time with me. When there is someone more suitable for you.

 

It's wayyyyy easier to tell a man you're married - it's a firm no. Otherwise, he thinks he has a chance and will nag/wheedle/follow you until you break down or can break free.

[Imajerk17]

Cautious. Why did your friend have to lie. She could have said. My mind is not on dating anyone at the moment. If I go out with you. It will lead you on and I don't want you to waste your time with me. When there is someone more suitable for you.

 

But, that is quite often a lie too

 

This woman is a stranger. You approached her (good for you for taking a chance), but the flip side is that if she isn't interested, then she doesn't owe you anything really, not even "the truth". She is allowed to turn down unsolicited approaches by complete strangers however she feels comfortable. Even if it means saying she is already taken, to avoid confrontation, to avoid "rejecting" someone outright, ect.

 

(RE the rest of your post she sure as hell does not need to "let you down easy" after a random approach and give you a prepared speech/pep talk. WTF)

 

All we as guys need to hear from her, whether she says it by excuse or directly, is that it isn't happening, and then we go on our merry way.

 

Anyway OP you got some good advice, as much as can be gleaned from a thread. You got to put yourself out there!

Edited July 23, 2017 by Imajerk17

[Projectme]

This a great thread. I'm 50yo and after 2 long term relationships that spanned 20 years I'm feeling ready to get back out there. And I can relate to your question. I can't offer any advice at this point but am reading the replies and hoping to learn something.

[Mysterio]

Most Woman in my mind are not going to be very open to just a cold call that involves dating. They need a repore. Guys on the other hand if a woman approches them. They would love it.

 

I have actually had that done. Like I have said before. When I don't care. I seem to get more attention. Be it works for me short term or not.

[Bastile]

Like I have said before. When I don't care. I seem to get more attention. Be it works for me short term or not.

 

Women can be like cats, in the sense that they go to the least interested person in the room for some attention.

 

Aloofness only gets you so far. It's not something to rely upon as any sort of method, imo.

[randomvariable]

I would say that approaching 20 women is enough to get me a new proper option in a week (talking very attractive girls). It's effort. But then consider that I can approach 5 of them in an afternoon easily, and you can see how it becomes something overtime that you learn to manage - along with other resources such as time, money, and everything else.

Thanks for the reply. If you don’t mind me asking, in what contexts? Be specific if you can? Do you usuallly approach women you already know (acquaintance of friend of a friend) or strangers, e.g. someone next to you at the laundromat?

 

To go to the next level there needs to be an openness and willingness from both parties. Then, it's a matter of escalation. Pay attention to the signs - smile, eye contact, touch, pupils dialating, and so forth - then escalate. Take it to next level. Whatever that may be. Move to a different location to talk privately. Ask for phone number. Set up future date. Whatever.

This seems far too much to pay attention to when interacting with a woman, especially when it takes some mental effort just to contain my own nerves. Also, people smile all the time, they fake it, they smile habitually or when they’re nervous; and touching people without their permission?

This just doesn’t seem like useful advice.

 

You don't want to ask out anyone you haven't even had a conversation with yet. I mean, you know nothing about them -- and they know nothing about you. You could be a serial killer. Plus you get marked down for asking someone out solely based on what they look like, although we know this goes on all the time.

I think it stands to reason that one has to initiate a conversation with someone though in order to ask them out; and one would have to ask them out the first time one meets them, no? I live in a city; except for very particular settings, if I meet a stranger and don’t get their contact information, I can be reasonably certain I will never see them again. And I’ve heard and read that many women compartmentalize with respect to romantic vs. platonic relationships; that is, they *don’t* want to form romantic relationships once they’ve formed friendships, and don’t want to form mere friendships with someone they have romantic interest in (something which usually occurs fairly soon after meeting someone, as I understand it). Taken concomitantly with your advice, this seems like quite a double bind.

 

I'd guess you're doing a poor job of identifying women who are attracted to you.

Well, the idea is to get them attracted to me, no? As far as first impressions go, physical deficiencies make it an uphill battle, I know, but I would hope I could work around that? The only women who express physical attraction for me are ones which I don’t find attractive (to be specific, I mean they’re obese; I expect they’re as desperate as me, and while I sympathize, sympathy only takes me so far), or they just want a free drink. (or a free uber)

 

As has been pointed out, there is no "right situation". You have to make that for yourself if you're going to take the "cold call approach". I do my grocery shopping at about the same time every week and run into a cute, single woman there more often than not. We've chatted in the check out line and in the aisles a few times and flirted a little bit. It probably won't be long before I ask her out.

Thanks for the advice. I suspect you are quite right, but I’m not happy about it. I like to compartmentalize. When I’m grocery shopping I like to focus on whatever food I'm looking for.

 

But in your "I do not care" mode it will all seem more "real", more "human", spontaneous, less contrived, more laid back, and thus more genuine. The real you...

The “I do not care mode” is me on the 10th floor of the library reading an obscure book or writing code or biking; all of these are solitary activities. If I’m going out of my way to interact with strangers it’s because I “care.” There's no pretending otherwise. I think you’re assuming a great deal of commonality among what people’s ‘natural’ personalities are like. I’d venture to say that everyone “tries”; everyone puts on masks, every day. The Hawthorne effect, etc.

 

This woman is a stranger. You approached her (good for you for taking a chance), but the flip side is that if she isn't interested, then she doesn't owe you anything really, not even "the truth". She is allowed to turn down unsolicited approaches by complete strangers however she feels comfortable. Even if it means saying she is already taken, to avoid confrontation, to avoid "rejecting" someone outright, ect.

One consequence of this is a deflation of credibility. For example, when a woman says 'let's just be friends' I assume she means 'let's never interact again.' Because usually this is what it really means. I once recently met one woman who had pretty good (at least creative and well-established) reason for not wanting to see me romantically anymore, but insisted that she really did 'just want to be friends.' I decided to take her at her word and we hung out a couple times since; it has occurred to me that it is possible that she was really just trying to be polite and my pursuing platonic friendship is actually an annoyance to her; but I figure, it's not my obligation to read minds.

 

I've also as a matter of course asked women I've dated (generally met online) who did not want to see me any more ("let's just be friends") for a reason, constructive criticism (via text), if you will, and to date gotten none. So one cannot fault a man for not adapting to circumstances of which no one will venture to inform him.

[CptInsano]

[...]

This seems far too much to pay attention to when interacting with a woman, especially when it takes some mental effort just to contain my own nerves. Also, people smile all the time, they fake it, they smile habitually or when they’re nervous; and touching people without their permission?

This just doesn’t seem like useful advice.[...]

 

I don't think I've ever asked permission to touch a woman, she either touched me first or I went with my instincts. I apologized a few times for touching them accidentally, but in the vast majority of the cases the response was simply: "What for?"

 

I think it stands to reason that one has to initiate a conversation with someone though in order to ask them out; and one would have to ask them out the first time one meets them, no? I live in a city; except for very particular settings, if I meet a stranger and don’t get their contact information, I can be reasonably certain I will never see them again. And I’ve heard and read that many women compartmentalize with respect to romantic vs. platonic relationships; that is, they *don’t* want to form romantic relationships once they’ve formed friendships, and don’t want to form mere friendships with someone they have romantic interest in (something which usually occurs fairly soon after meeting someone, as I understand it). Taken concomitantly with your advice, this seems like quite a double bind.

You are way ahead of yourself. You are just trying to get to know somebody, you are not determining the type of relationship at that point. You will talk to them in order to find out if you enjoy each others company. Sometimes it's just a flirt, a little ego boost, and nothing more. You can either directly ask for her number, or you find out enough information on where to find her. But in most cases, if things go well, you really don't have to wonder much about it, and you'll get a rather clear hint.