What am I doing wrong? [OLD]

[clia]

I totally understand not wanting to ask a guy out first, but I see no issue with pushing the issue for a first meet in the OLD context. I don't even really view the first meet as a real date. I think it can be a little hard for guys because some women want to meet quickly, others want to exchange lots of messages first, and the poor guy doesn't really know where you stand. I personally always tried to push it to real life ASAP.

 

I would just text something along the lines of "To be honest with you, I'm not a big texter. Can we arrange to meet in person soon?"

 

If he is serious about meeting you, that gives him the opening to ask you out. If he's now serious about meeting you and just wants a penpal, he'll put it off. At that point you can just check out.

[normal person]

I'm still having extreme online dating problems. I am talking to someone I like but he still hasn't asked me out and I'm losing interest. I'd really prefer not to ask him out because although he'd probably will agree to it, actually asking me out is an strong indicator of the interest and personality I'm looking for.

 

You could always just say, "We can talk more when you want to meet up. Here's my number." Admittedly, it's not exactly what you want, but this guy isn't getting the hint otherwise, so you might have to force the hand a little. He could be young or new to the whole process and might be a bit unsure of how it all works. I did the same thing when I started out, and yes, it got tiresome.

 

Usually, I don't get in this deep or talk to men this verbose, but I chose to really engage on recommendation of posters here. We've only had 5 exchanges, but his messages are essay-length long and have been concluded with "sorry for breaking your inbox". Mine are pretty long too. So even though it's only been 5 messages between us (2 him, 2 me, 1 him) I'm already tired of texting him.

 

To be honest, I don't think that's the best strategy, you don't really get to "know" someone until you meet them in the flesh. We have a tendency to idealize people or form some sort of opinion before we meet them and most of the time, we're wrong, for better or worse. I would personally say just message until you're comfortable enough to talk in person -- however long that is, everyone's different. In my experience, it's 1-3 messages back each containing a few sentences. But to each their own.

 

So you can get an idea of how annoying this is but how difficult it is to just stop responding at this point. He's talking in future tense like he intends for there to be a lot of this writing. Can anyone help me ??? Am I too impatient? Do you think him not asking me out just means he's not interested enough? Is there a way to respond to cut in short without seeming impatient or is okay to just walk away and stop responding at this point? Also how tacky is it to have a little note in profile that you'd rather meet people relatively early no penpals??

 

I'm totally with you on this, that would annoy the hell out of me. But from that message, he's deferring to you. He's already put you on a pedestal and is trying to win you over and he doesn't even realize you'll easily go out with him if he just grows a pair and asks you.

 

Like I think I told you before, you have a lot more leverage with these dudes than you think you do -- your pictures are gorgeous and you're articulate and funny. I know your subjective reality is that you get nervous (which is fine), but to objective observer, this guy is putty in your hands and I'm sure you could ask him to take his red pen, semicolons, and jump off a bridge, and he would seriously consider it if he thought it might win you over. I know that's probably not what you're looking for in a guy, but that's how he's sounding with "I'm going to screw up royally at some point," "I hope you won't take me for a moron," etc. This isn't the stuff he'd be saying if he was confident. And if he's not confident, he's not likely to just ask you out, he's going to second guess it all and be hesitant, etc.

 

Long story short, he's very interested, I would guess that he's intimidated by you. When I was 16-22 and talking to girls who looked like you, I'd be worried about messing up too. Things only changed when I realized that they would get just as worried, and he hasn't realized that yet. He likes you, he's not going to think you're rude if you just want to cut to the chase, he's probably going to be thrilled and relieved that he didn't have to do the legwork himself or overlook another misplaced oxford comma.

 

 

Also how tacky is it to have a little note in profile that you'd rather meet people relatively early no penpals??

 

Not at all, I think it'd solve this whole problem for you.

 

I just tired of so much writing. Is that wrong? Or is that part and parcel with OLD. Did you read the part where he wrote 6 paragraphs with a lot of questions? Shouldn't some be saved for date?

 

You're right, that's a lot. Just ignore the questions and give him your number, don't worry about him not being interested enough to ask you for you himself. He's interested enough to write you War And Peace, he just hasn't realized that he doesn't need to and is kind of scared to do otherwise.

 

A common theme I'm seeing is that you seem very fearful of upsetting people or seeming rude (which is a nice quality), but I'm sure a lot of these guys can't even believe you're talking to them and are probably equally as fearful of making a misstep with you. I'm sure you probably don't want to have to force a guy's hand to ask you out or whatever, but for the sake of practicality, you might just have to if you want to bypass all ancillary stuff. You can count me shocked if any guy has any issue with you trying to expedite the process. Trust me, they will be jumping for joy. You have so much more sway than you think you do.

 

Best of luck. Oh, and apologies for the length -- ironic, I know.

[Usename12]

With online dating, just remember you've never met the guy. Paragraphs and paragraphs is just too serious and introspective for someone you've never met, at least for me. That excerpt from the guy seems more serious than I'd want too. You might want to shorten your responses and hint you'd be interested in going in more depth if you met. If he doesn't take the hint, talk to other guys.

 

I always found it weird how some folks want to pour their heart out to folks they've never met but maybe some people are more comfortable writing than being vulnerable and actually holding a conversation with someone.

[Cookiesandough]

Normal, your advice can never be too long. It's always 100% solid and I really appreciate it. Thank you so much

 

Also, clia, username12, gunslinger, tysm

 

 

Thefooloftheyear, your idea did it. Bingo!!!

 

"Well, why don't we give the carpals a break? Would you be interested in going out and finding something to do sometime? Grab a bite to eat or do something more interesting like going to the zoo? If you have any other ideas, I'm open to whatever."

 

Chyeaaa boy. Thanks to you all, I might have got me a date.......

 

 

...Finally

Edited August 10, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[normal person]

Normal, your advice can never be too long. It's always 100% solid and I really appreciate it. Thank you so much

 

Also, clia, username12, gunslinger, tysm

 

 

Thefooloftheyear, your idea did it. Bingo!!!

 

"Well, why don't we give the carpals a break? Would you be interested in going out and finding something to do sometime? Grab a bite to eat or do something more interesting like going to the zoo? If you have any other ideas, I'm open to whatever."

 

Chyeaaa boy. Thanks to you all, I might have got me a date.......

 

Congratulations, happy to help. To avoid any further frustration with this guy, I would make sure you both start talking definitively about days you're available, times, locations, limitations, etc. Just tell him when you're free and hopefully he'll get the hint. Find something that works for the both of you, get it nailed down, and go. Don't let him waste more time writing or debating which zoo is better because one has a panda and the other has a polar bear (both are cool). He'll drive you nuts. You both want to go out with each other, so if you have to be a little pushy to get the job done, so be it, it'll be a learning experience for him. Have fun!

[HarmonyDriven]

OP,

 

I have not read through all the posts, just your initial post.

 

When I started OLD, I searched the internet for information on relationships, men, OLD profiles, you name it.....I figured since my marriage had failed, I needed to understand men better. I wanted to improve myself. I wanted to put my best foot forward in OLD.

 

Ultimately, it led me to Evan Marc Katz - Dating Coach. This is a site that covers it all.....understanding men, relationships, dating, OLD profiles etc... I was successful at OLD. Sure, it gets frustrating, but I always kept a positive outlook. Will be back to OLD soon after ending a 3 year relationship (from OLD.)

 

Oh! and good luck on your upcoming date!

[Cookiesandough]

Congratulations, happy to help. To avoid any further frustration with this guy, I would make sure you both start talking definitively about days you're available, times, locations, limitations, etc. Just tell him when you're free and hopefully he'll get the hint. Find something that works for the both of you, get it nailed down, and go. Don't let him waste more time writing or debating which zoo is better because one has a panda and the other has a polar bear (both are cool). He'll drive you nuts. You both want to go out with each other, so if you have to be a little pushy to get the job done, so be it, it'll be a learning experience for him. Have fun!

Normal,

I'm not sure I'm attracted to this guy anymore, to be honest.

 

You are right I feel like this guy will wind up driving me nuts. I think part of the reason I'm feeling uninspired is because I had to nudge him to ask me out. I basically said im Done texting( in nicer words) so he's like oh okay wanna go out then. So I'm the actual date initiator. Seems like he has low interest. I don't want to get myself into a set up where a guy is not really that into or attracted to me, but feels like he'll give it a shot and it's an awkward and forced date. He's already put the ball back in my court making me choose the date and whether we go to the Zoo. I don't even know what to say next. I have no problem being the aggressor at times, but this guy's behavior makes me feel like he has low interest, makes me feel unsure, makes me lose attraction in turn. I'm 99% that's what happened here.

 

 

@Harmony. Thanks so much for the words of encouragement. I am familiar with EMK. He's pretty traditional in his dating approach, but gives solid advice to women from what I can tell. Good luck on your dating journey andmaybe you will share some stories too, who knows

[Cookiesandough]

It's a damn shame cuz he's my type and I really felt like I was vibing with him, but no low interest males making me do all the initiating at the beginning. If he came at me with a time and place, I'd totally go, but I'm not doing all the orchestrating so I can be in his presence. Guess I just haven't reached that level of desperation yet

Edited August 11, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[normal person]

Normal,

I'm not sure I'm attracted to this guy anymore, to be honest.

 

You are right I feel like this guy will wind up driving me nuts. I think part of the reason I'm feeling uninspired is because I had to nudge him to ask me out. I basically said im Done texting( in nicer words) so he's like oh okay wanna go out then. So I'm the actual date initiator. Seems like he has low interest. I don't want to get myself into a set up where a guy is not really that into or attracted to me, but feels like he'll give it a shot and it's an awkward and forced date.

 

I'd guess that he's very interested, he's just totally clueless. People who aren't interested don't write you novels and get really worried you'll think they're a moron. Uninterested people simply don't talk to you.

 

I'm guessing this guy is early 20s? I can see why you lost interest, but I can't really blame the guy. When people are that age, they have this tendency to overthink, idealize, put too much weight in messages in the media, romanticize situations, etc. So I think what you get is a guy who sees a beautiful girl like one off the cover of a magazine, can't believe his luck, and starts thinking that he needs to be so charming, witty, chivalrous to not mess it up. He says "I won't send her just a few sentences, I'll send her a novel to let her know how smart and interesting I am and it'll really resonate with her!" So he sits down with his ink and quill and writes pages of pretentious crap that makes you roll your eyes, and you wanna say "Dude, just take me to the zoo and buy me a taco."

 

Guys are inexperienced in their early 20s. On top of that, I think everyone's problems are relative/subjective, and if I had to guess, yours is probably that these same guys see your picture, think you're a goddess, and are basically clueless about how to handle it like some scene out of a bad teen rom-com. They get paralyzed with too much doubt, excitement, tact, hesitation, everything -- and that combined with their already poor and inexperienced dating skill set, I'm sure it creates a lot of situations like this. I know, because when I was 16-23 I was that same guy, and when a super hot girl might want to go out with me, I'd try so hard to not screw it up that I'd end up screwing it up exactly like this guy is. I know you want a guy who takes action, makes decisions, etc, but it might be a bit of an uphill battle for you sometimes. You might just have to be a bit more direct (I'm sure you can do it tactfully), be a bit choosier about who go out with, or maybe try dating someone a bit older who knows the ropes better.

 

He's already put the ball back in my court making me choose the date and whether we go to the Zoo. I don't even know what to say next. I have no problem being the aggressor at times, but this guy's behavior makes me feel like he has low interest, makes me feel unsure, makes me lose attraction in turn. I'm 99% that's what happened here.

 

Not surprised, that's what I was worried about with this guy. It's not that he has low interest. My money says his interest is high, and his game plan is to get you to think he's so sweet, caring, and chivalrous by letting you go wherever your heart desires, because he saw it in a Freddie Prinze Jr. movie and the girl loved it. He doesn't realize you don't really care that much, you just want him to make the decision. If you're still interested in going out with this guy, you might just have to dumb it down for him and force his hand again and say something very direct like "I want you to make the decision." He won't find it rude, trust me. The first time a girl said something like this to me it blew my mind and changed my whole attitude.

 

Hopefully he gets the hint. If not, so be it, maybe the next guy will know what's up.

Edited August 11, 2017 by normal person

[Cookiesandough]

I'd guess that he's very interested, he's just totally clueless. People who aren't interested don't write you novels and get really worried you'll think they're a moron. Uninterested people simply don't talk to you.

 

I'm guessing this guy is early 20s? I can see why you lost interest, but I can't really blame the guy. When people are that age, they have this tendency to overthink, idealize, put too much weight in messages in the media, romanticize situations, etc. So I think what you get is a guy who sees a beautiful girl like one off the cover of a magazine, can't believe his luck, and starts thinking that he needs to be so charming, witty, chivalrous to not mess it up. He says "I won't send her just a few sentences, I'll send her a novel to let her know how smart and interesting I am and it'll really resonate with her!" So he sits down with his ink and quill and writes pages of pretentious crap that makes you roll your eyes, and you wanna say "Dude, just take me to the zoo and buy me a taco."

 

Guys are inexperienced in their early 20s. On top of that, I think everyone's problems are relative/subjective, and if I had to guess, yours is probably that these same guys see your picture, think you're a goddess, and are basically clueless about how to handle it like some scene out of a bad teen rom-com. They get paralyzed with too much doubt, excitement, tact, hesitation, everything -- and that combined with their already poor and inexperienced dating skill set, I'm sure it creates a lot of situations like this. I know, because when I was 16-23 I was that same guy, and when a super hot girl might want to go out with me, I'd try so hard to not screw it up that I'd end up screwing it up exactly like this guy is. I know you want a guy who takes action, makes decisions, etc, but it might be a bit of an uphill battle for you sometimes. You might just have to be a bit more direct (I'm sure you can do it tactfully), be a bit choosier about who go out with, or maybe try dating someone a bit older who knows the ropes better.

 

 

 

Not surprised, that's what I was worried about with this guy. It's not that he has low interest. My money says his interest is high, and his game plan is to get you to think he's so sweet, caring, and chivalrous by letting you go wherever your heart desires, because he saw it in a Freddie Prinze Jr. movie and the girl loved it. He doesn't realize you don't really care that much, you just want him to make the decision. If you're still interested in going out with this guy, you might just have to dumb it down for him and force his hand again and say something very direct like "I want you to make the decision." He won't find it rude, trust me. The first time a girl said something like this to me it blew my mind and changed my whole attitude.

 

Hopefully he gets the hint. If not, so be it, maybe the next guy will know what's up.

 

Thank you for advice and kind words. I'm not sure it's about intimation and! he's actually 30, but I based on your post, I might give him the benefit of the doubt. Not much is known until we meet anywayX I might go ahead and brain storm with him on date...He's so cute and I otherwise like his personality. Just wish men would be more confident because it comes off as not interested or is a turn off in and of itself.

 

I will update on how disastrous my date goes if it happens. Thank you much again

[alphamale]

So far it's mostly guys I'm not interested in who message me.

how do you know you're "not interested" if you've never met them??

[Bastile]

I find it interesting.

 

In putting on your profile that you expect good grammar, it seems that you have filtered out most of the f*** boys. Perhaps that is something that is something that other women can take note of?

 

Yet, I don't think you understand the rarity of what you are looking for.

 

You expect an intellectual, who can lead, who has some game, will wait for sex, will look to be exclusive within a few dates, will play by your rules.

 

You will have to compromise on something.

 

That guy is probably less that one percent of the population

 

I don't think that I've ever been introduced to that guy in my life, tbh. Not even sure he exists.

 

But indicating an expectation on decent grammar was smart. That is a clever filtering mechanism.

 

The common thing that you'll need to compromise on for that type of man, and see your dating success skyrocket, is in the leading and game part of the equation.

 

What's the saying? The man is the head, but the woman is the neck that turns the head?

 

I think this is ultimately the way you need to go. Maybe not this guy (the date planning thing really is a massive red-flag for how you can expect the relationship to go). But you will find a guy like this easily enough, that has a half-decent level of testosterone, and you can have enough leading to where there is sufficient compromise for a secure ltr.

 

Really shouldn't be that difficult. But you do need to focus on compromise, I think.

 

Nudging a guy into a date within a few messages is a yes.

 

A guy expecting you to set up the entire date is a definite no.

 

Know what I mean?

[Usename12]

Unless you have an aversion to meeting someone new, why not go on a simple date with him and see what he is like in real life? Just don't close your profile or stop talking to other guys. If he turns out indecisive and socially inept, just move on. I do agree that a lot of guys are clueless. Guys writing their dissertation with a woman they've never met don't get it. They think they are winning her by showing their intellect, by being so deep and introspective with some soliloquy. Meanwhile, the aggressive guy who asks, "Wanna hang" already got the girl and the clueless guys are left wondering why she ghosted when they thought it was going so well.

[Cookiesandough]

how do you know you're "not interested" if you've never met them??

 

Kind of can just tell by their pics / profile / and vibe they give off we wouldn't be a match.

[Cookiesandough]

I find it interesting.

 

In putting on your profile that you expect good grammar, it seems that you have filtered out most of the f*** boys. Perhaps that is something that is something that other women can take note of?

 

Yet, I don't think you understand the rarity of what you are looking for.

 

You expect an intellectual, who can lead, who has some game, will wait for sex, will look to be exclusive within a few dates, will play by your rules.

 

You will have to compromise on something.

 

That guy is probably less that one percent of the population

 

I don't think that I've ever been introduced to that guy in my life, tbh. Not even sure he exists.

 

But indicating an expectation on decent grammar was smart. That is a clever filtering mechanism.

 

The common thing that you'll need to compromise on for that type of man, and see your dating success skyrocket, is in the leading and game part of the equation.

 

What's the saying? The man is the head, but the woman is the neck that turns the head?

 

I think this is ultimately the way you need to go. Maybe not this guy (the date planning thing really is a massive red-flag for how you can expect the relationship to go). But you will find a guy like this easily enough, that has a half-decent level of testosterone, and you can have enough leading to where there is sufficient compromise for a secure ltr.

 

Really shouldn't be that difficult. But you do need to focus on compromise, I think.

 

Nudging a guy into a date within a few messages is a yes.

 

A guy expecting you to set up the entire date is a definite no.

 

Know what I mean?

Lmao. I actually don't put I'm a grammar/punctuation elitist in my profile. Also, I'm not looking for exclusive bf/gf anymore within 3 dates or so, lol that's a little rushing it for some. Plus, I barely talk to these guys within 3 dates, so I think I need to give it more time. I'm also not looking for someone who will wait for sex anymore either hahah. I'm not concerned about when the sex happens. He doesn't need to be that intellectual. So with those stips out of the way, my standards aren't quite so high, right, but I probably still need to lower them more. I just don't know how to date and do it wrong. You know the story. I just mailed that guy that i'd like to grab coffee. Keeping it simple, because like username12 says, we won't know until meet how it's going to go. All I know now is he has a cool personality and looks hot in pics. Thank you~!

[normal person]

Thank you for advice and kind words. I'm not sure it's about intimation and! he's actually 30, but I based on your post, I might give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

Oh wow, he's 30 and he's acting like this? I don't know how much benefit of the doubt I'd give him, to be honest. He probably should've "gotten it" by now. But I've got my fingers crossed for you.

 

how do you know you're "not interested" if you've never met them??

 

Are you suggesting that people see romantic potential in every single person until proven otherwise? Because I operate the exact opposite way. I look at a person, and if they excite me physiologically, then I proceed. If they do nothing for me, I'm firmly "not interested." I'm sure they might have a nice personality, but that's only half the battle.

 

I find it interesting.

 

In putting on your profile that you expect good grammar, it seems that you have filtered out most of the f*** boys. Perhaps that is something that is something that other women can take note of?

 

Yet, I don't think you understand the rarity of what you are looking for.

 

You expect an intellectual, who can lead, who has some game, will wait for sex, will look to be exclusive within a few dates, will play by your rules.

 

You will have to compromise on something.

 

That guy is probably less that one percent of the population

 

I don't think that I've ever been introduced to that guy in my life, tbh. Not even sure he exists.

 

You can't be serious. These requirements aren't stringent at all. In fact, they're probably the bare minimum of what she, or any woman, should expect. A respectable, sensible, confident, guy who's read a book or two and has a few ounces of testosterone. That's the entry level dude, they're a dime a dozen. Landing a guy like that is totally realistic for her, and she could do way, way, better.

 

 

The common thing that you'll need to compromise on for that type of man, and see your dating success skyrocket, is in the leading and game part of the equation.

 

I will respectfully disagree with you here, you're advising her to lower bar and I think she should set it higher. If the ultimate goal was to just "be in a relationship, any relationship," I would agree with you. But if the goal is to be in a satisfying, fulfilling relationship, where she doesn't literally tell a guy to ask her out, then there's no sense in her compromising on something which can be so easily acquired elsewhere. She's got enough leverage that she doesn't need to deal with guys who can't hang. She can basically have her pick, I don't see why she should settle. Better to wait for the right guy than endure endless frustration with the wrong ones.

 

I think this is ultimately the way you need to go. Maybe not this guy (the date planning thing really is a massive red-flag for how you can expect the relationship to go). But you will find a guy like this easily enough, that has a half-decent level of testosterone, and you can have enough leading to where there is sufficient compromise for a secure ltr.

 

Really shouldn't be that difficult. But you do need to focus on compromise, I think.

 

I agree that she'll find someone easily enough, but I really think the route is through less compromise, not more. It's not the advice I'd give to everyone, but for her, I think it's valid.

[bluefeather]

be! aggressive!

be! be! aggressive!

 

I could read the low confidence from that guy from the text you gave. Exchange numbers and actually talk on the phone. Talk for 5-10 min and see if he asks you out. That'll do away with all the wishy-washy questions that lasted for... how many days has it been with this guy? If not with this guy, do it for the next one. Screw texting.

[clia]

Normal,

I'm not sure I'm attracted to this guy anymore, to be honest.

 

You are right I feel like this guy will wind up driving me nuts. I think part of the reason I'm feeling uninspired is because I had to nudge him to ask me out. I basically said im Done texting( in nicer words) so he's like oh okay wanna go out then. So I'm the actual date initiator. Seems like he has low interest. I don't want to get myself into a set up where a guy is not really that into or attracted to me, but feels like he'll give it a shot and it's an awkward and forced date. He's already put the ball back in my court making me choose the date and whether we go to the Zoo. I don't even know what to say next. I have no problem being the aggressor at times, but this guy's behavior makes me feel like he has low interest, makes me feel unsure, makes me lose attraction in turn. I'm 99% that's what happened here.

 

I would be annoyed by this, too. If you sent the text you quoted above, his response of "oh okay wanna go out then" is pretty beta and wishy washy since it was abundantly clear that you wanted to go out! Without knowing the conversation you had with him about this, I would probably just let him know when I was free and let him pick something. If he can't take that ball and run with it....well....forget it.

[Bastile]

You can't be serious. These requirements aren't stringent at all. In fact, they're probably the bare minimum of what she, or any woman, should expect. A respectable, sensible, confident, guy who's read a book or two and has a few ounces of testosterone. That's the entry level dude, they're a dime a dozen. Landing a guy like that is totally realistic for her, and she could do way, way, better.

 

No. It's contrary, and doesn't make sense.

 

Confidence is simply situational competence. And that comes from experiencing a fair amount of women.

 

A guy dating a good amount of women tends to adapt his own unique/idiosyncratic practice that doesn't necessarily put women's interests first. You can't have it both ways.

 

Most women end up settling for relationships. You must have noticed this. There is a reason orbiters are kept.

 

I can, and have, went back for women that have built something stable with those kinds of guys.

 

It's very hard to find lover and provider in the same man. To make priorities, you focus on K-selection, then it makes sense to focus a little to allow for K-selection traits.

 

That's life. Read someone like Gaeta's posts as a woman running pure female relationship game (sort of). Or read mine as a man that was running pure non-exclusive game (sort of).

 

 

I will respectfully disagree with you here, you're advising her to lower bar and I think she should set it higher. If the ultimate goal was to just "be in a relationship, any relationship," I would agree with you. But if the goal is to be in a satisfying, fulfilling relationship, where she doesn't literally tell a guy to ask her out, then there's no sense in her compromising on something which can be so easily acquired elsewhere. She's got enough leverage that she doesn't need to deal with guys who can't hang. She can basically have her pick, I don't see why she should settle. Better to wait for the right guy than endure endless frustration with the wrong ones.

 

I remember a woman nudging me to ask her out when I was younger. Never had that happen before?

 

I bet you have. We all probably have.

 

In terms of "skill" (for want of a better word), I am better suited now. In terms of nature, I was much better suited then.

 

Again, you can't have it both ways. If the guy she is currently chatting to was more savvy, she would have bigger problems than "I own him, and it's turning me off".

 

I agree that she'll find someone easily enough, but I really think the route is through less compromise, not more. It's not the advice I'd give to everyone, but for her, I think it's valid.

 

Hmmm.

 

An attractive guy with game, that isn't multi-dating, that wants to be exclusive before sex, that knows how to lead.

 

Intellectual, probably introverted, experienced. Sigma. Know how rare a sigma male is?

 

Know how rare a sigma is that meets the girl game requirements of "the rules"? Zero.

 

Only thing off the top of my head is a reformed beta that got into Corey Wayne or something. And I doubt that will last long, as that whole nonsense is about "make her chase you". And isn't that what this chappy is doing anyway?

 

Perhaps he is really an evil genius?

[Cookiesandough]

Only thing off the top of my head is a reformed beta that got into Corey Wayne or something.

 

That sounds absolutely horrible.

 

 

I don't think confidence [with women] necessarily comes with having had lots of women. Isn't it possible for there to be men who have no experience with women but are able to be confident because they don't put women on pedestals. They prioritize other things over ladies, so they have an innate 'a want it but can take it or leave it because there's always more of it' approach.. I mean why is that not possible????No Corey Wayne or Dalrock ppl plz

 

Clia, he actually is the one who wrote that we should go to the zoo or get food perhaps maybe if I don't have a better idea...so yeah, basically. Thanks for understanding my frustration.

 

I'm at a loss on what to do. I appreciate you guys helping me.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[Bastile]

Isn't it possible for there to be men who have no experience with women but are able to be confident because they don't put women on pedestals.

 

I don't think I've seen it.

 

How does a man learn, if not through experience - trial and error?

 

Books and videos? Sure. But which books and videos? I can personally vouch that it took me a bunch to find a style which suited me, and which I found most perceptive.

 

Again, it came down to more experience.

 

I know you don't like guys with notch-counts, but you aren't going to find a virgin that intuitively gets this stuff (unless he's doing something he read, and then he's probably going to be doing it a little clumsy). You'll need to give those guys a bit more of a chance in general.

 

And as you say that you've been on only a handful of dates in either one or two years, I think it's fair to say that the barriers are built a bit high. Maybe let a few more guys through.

 

Not necessarily this particular guy (I don't know what was exactly said about the proposition of a date invite), but I think that's got to be an overall issue. Maybe reconsider certain margins of error that you have.

 

You raise yet further conditions, and if the amount of dates get any less, they'll be non-existent. Clearly that isn't the answer.

 

I get your frustration, btw. Men have the same frustration, believe me!

 

It's a catch 22.

[Gaeta]

 

That's life. Read someone like Gaeta's posts as a woman running pure female relationship game (sort of). Or read mine as a man that was running pure non-exclusive game (sort of).

 

OH! I don't have a clue what is a pure-female-relationship-game but if it's what I was playing it got me exactly what I was looking for and a little more

[Gaeta]

The last guy I met online, I almost met up with him but I just wasn't feeling it and that's a common problem for me.

More men you meet more chances you have to connect with someone. DO NOT look for an online connection, that's a waste of your time.

 

If the guy has a half decent profile GO MEET HIM. I have had tons of dates so I am speaking out of experience. I don't know how many times I went to a coffee-date with a man that was a bore online and turned out to be a hottie and a chatter box in real life.

 

I remember once being home a Saturday night with nothing to do, this man was online and messaged me, he could only type 2 words sentences. In his profile it said 5`3`` same height as me, and he was not the type of man I usually go for. Anyway he asked to call me because he was not a good typer. He called and said it's Saturday night, I do nothing, you do nothing, lets just meet over a coffee. I said sure, and went out to meet him knowing absolutely NOTHING of him. Sometimes you need to stop thinking and over analyzing and just do something spontaneous.

 

So to finish a long story I went and met him, he was absolutely gorgeous and a real chatter-box, he was not 5`3`` but 6`tall he did not know how to correct his profile and we ended up dating 1 YEAR.

 

 

I have nothing written in my profile, but I highly doubt that is the issue.

 

Please write something in your profile, at least try to show you half care about meeting someone.

 

The conversation typically goes nowhere. And that's not my fault. I can hold a conversation just fine. A lot of them don't seem all' there'. Not very engaged/interested. Endless small talk and just dull. The best strategy I've had so far is to just responding entirely for awhile (1-2 weeks) and they often come back and straight up if I'd like to meet. Unfortunately most of the time by then I'm not interested.

Do you live like in the middle of nowhere that no one interesting messages you? OR maybe you are too picky and the interesting ones just don't comply to your long non-realistic list requirements?

 

 

Another thought occurred to me is that maybe I'm too picky/specific with my type and need to lower my standards. But I don't want to date someone I don't think is a match for me and I'm pretty sure I'd share little common ground with. Is that nuts? I don't have really stringent criteria but I have to be attracted to them....

Drop having a type. It's a cage your lock yourself in, go with your gut, like I said if the guy is half decent go meet him, you'll get surprises out of it.

 

Another story, I once went on a coffee date with a man I had nicked name 'the ugly guy'. He was in good shape but he could have played the vilain in an episode of 'Alien return' his face was so....unusual. I went, had a coffee, he was interesting and well put together, when we left he kisses me, I thought he was leaning to kiss my cheek but he kisses my lips with no warning. BOOM!! I felt 'sh%t I got to see this guy again' !! I went home and called my daughter, told her I had met the ugliest guy ever and he was so ugly he was damn hot!! We dated 3 months.

 

Throw your list out, meet men, have fun meeting different men and experiencing with their different personality. Be open minded and see it as a social experience!

Edited August 12, 2017 by Gaeta

[Sweetfish]

No. It's contrary, and doesn't make sense.

 

Confidence is simply situational competence. And that comes from experiencing a fair amount of women.

 

A guy dating a good amount of women tends to adapt his own unique/idiosyncratic practice that doesn't necessarily put women's interests first. You can't have it both ways.

 

Most women end up settling for relationships. You must have noticed this. There is a reason orbiters are kept.

 

I can, and have, went back for women that have built something stable with those kinds of guys.

 

It's very hard to find lover and provider in the same man. To make priorities, you focus on K-selection, then it makes sense to focus a little to allow for K-selection traits.

 

That's life. Read someone like Gaeta's posts as a woman running pure female relationship game (sort of). Or read mine as a man that was running pure non-exclusive game (sort of).

 

 

 

 

I remember a woman nudging me to ask her out when I was younger. Never had that happen before?

 

I bet you have. We all probably have.

 

In terms of "skill" (for want of a better word), I am better suited now. In terms of nature, I was much better suited then.

 

Again, you can't have it both ways. If the guy she is currently chatting to was more savvy, she would have bigger problems than "I own him, and it's turning me off".

 

 

 

Hmmm.

 

An attractive guy with game, that isn't multi-dating, that wants to be exclusive before sex, that knows how to lead.

 

Intellectual, probably introverted, experienced. Sigma. Know how rare a sigma male is?

 

Know how rare a sigma is that meets the girl game requirements of "the rules"? Zero.

 

Only thing off the top of my head is a reformed beta that got into Corey Wayne or something. And I doubt that will last long, as that whole nonsense is about "make her chase you". And isn't that what this chappy is doing anyway?

 

Perhaps he is really an evil genius?

 

 

You are absolutely on point. Women look for a certain trifecta that is just rare. A guy with confidence, intellect, driven, faithful, and allows a women to exercise 3rd wave is a pipe dream. Bastile, I said this many times and it falls on deaf ears and has been proven with data pulled from all major dating sites. That women chase after the top 5-10% of men and ignore the 90%. This can actually be proven in African American women who graduate college as its shown that to surplus the women who want a man at the same level.. One college educated African American man would have to date 4 women to surplus the demand. However, the flip side is the college educated man does not depict what African women are exposed to in media and books so they reject them.... They want a Tyrese Gibson and a doctor or lawyer in one package.

 

In the end when the clock is ticking and she starts to feel her age she will just settle or at some point have to lower her standards and the best time for a woman and man to settle is when she is young. The problem is many young women cannot date decent men in their youth and elect to date the bad boy or unreliable guy because that guy keeps her on her toes. Nice guys have a stink of death

 

 

The reality is for a man to master both school, education, and finance and at the same time master dating, communication, and social skills and have looks above say above 7 He will have already been acquired by a female, be looking for the top 5-10% women, or will expect a traditional relationship..

 

In the end its Alpha *** Beta bucks.

 

and its ever so often when women get older they go for the Beta because the Alpha cannot not provide (emotionally and sometimes fiscally)

[thefooloftheyear]

There are guys who fit your criteria. Cooksie..

 

The problem is that it sounds like you are fishing for sharks in a kiddie pool...no disrespect to anyone, but that's likely the extent of it.....

 

Guys at the top(or even slightly below) of the food chain(assuming that's what you are looking for-I didn't read the whole thread, just judging by the last few responses) don't really need to bother with that...Truth is most have quality women around them, many chirping in their ear even if they are in a committed relationship...The competition at that point is incredibly fierce...

 

And I respectfully disagree with the statement that desirable and high quality guys need to date and sleep around to get confident with women ...That just doesn't make much sense...If you think about it, its like saying a guy with a money tree in the yard, now has to go out and learn/ figure out how to make money....

 

If you were my sister, Id tell you to stick to your plan..Some people have a pretty rigid type and some just don't really care as much.....Don't just go out with a pile of frogs hoping one will turn into the Prince.I guess that's not terrible advice, its just probably not that likely to be wind up being what you really want...The fact that this hasn't worked for you bears that out, I suppose..If you feel strongly enough about yourself and what you bring to the table, its going to happen for you... but maybe you need to really understand what it is that you want ..Maybe you really don't know?? No one can really give you much help there ...you just need to be more decisive and figure that out..

 

.But perhaps you may need to take a different approach or an alternative venue....I'm unfamiliar with the whole story, but just going by what little I have read...

 

TFY

Edited August 12, 2017 by thefooloftheyear