Was this narcissistis abuse?

[Aayla]

I was dating a guy for 10 months. At the moment we've met, he was casually seeing another girl. He hooked up with me, telling me that I am very interesting and that he would like to get to know me. At the same time the other girl became very frustrated with the situation and told him to go to hell, she was very hurt. I continued to go on dates with him. At the same time he begun to say mean stuff about the other girl, that she was crazy etc. But I ignored it, I didn't really know what happened between them.

 

Around January we were already sort of in a relationship, seeing each other 3-4 times a week, I have met the parents and all of his friends, we started to do weekend get-aways, had the same social circle etc. He was always a bit weird about the whole thing though, I noticed that he gives me real attention only when I called him on it (from physical affection to listening to me). I noticed that little comments like "You never do anything right", "You are a bit stupid", "I am bored with you", told in a form of "joke" were more and more frequent. He was very possesive of his time and all conversations were always about how very busy HE is, how HARD it is for him right now. There was one comment I remember when I asked him for more consistent contact, he told me "I don't know if I get anything from it".

 

In March we had an open conversation about us, he told me he wasn't looking for anything serious but that he would never go after anyone without informing me that there is another love interest. There were some strange phrases there, like "I don't consider myself meat with eyes, but I see every person as a "coleague", I don't really develop relationships with people...". He also repeatedly lied about little cues about cheating, and with very elaborate lies. Making me think I am safe and sound.

 

In July I found out that he was consistently seeing the same girl he was humiliating before, all of the time we were together. There were more. The top of it was going to a festival with him were the other girl also was. He tried to paint it like she was there by accident and pushing me to do a threesome with her. I obviously said no, then he continued sending her messages throughout the festival about how boring I am and if he can sleep with her in her tent, and that I can't know anything about their affair. He continued saying stuff about her to ME like "she must be intimidated by you", and "you **** better than her"...

 

I left him after that festival because the girl sent me their messages and told me everything, she was also infuriated, then days later she wrote me again because apparently the guy is "already over her betrayal and wants to see her again". When I was breaking up with him (me being the "principal love interest") he was crying uncontrollably, saying he is sick and doesn't want to be a sociopath, that he will seeks help etc. He had put on a pity act uf. He knows I don't tolerate this and will not contact him again.

 

This is of course the short version, but I am thinking - could this guy be a narcissist? He shows no remorse whatsoever, he told me that he wasn't aware that he was doing wrong and that he'll change blabla but then days later he ran to the other girl like nothing happened. Pretty weird considering that he lost all of his social circle over this.

[knabe]

He sounds like a plain old jerk. You're not with jim, which is good, so don't try to diagnose him.

 

These days we think everyone needs a diagnosis, and their are "internet diagnosers" all over the web. You can usually spot them because the copy and paste the same wall of text everywhere lol.

 

I say he's just an immature, selfish jerk. Only a very small percentage of the population are truly narcissists, and we have become way to quick to "label" everyone.

[meta.morphate]

Whether he is, or he's not, you'll always doubt yourself about it. Maybe that's the sign of really dealing with a narcissist, but I deal with someone who I think is a narcissist (or a sociopath even) ... and I have read about it, asked around the Internet, asked teachers in school (I'm in the field of mental health and in grad school for social work) ....and guess what?? No matter how these definitions fit him to a T, I still end up second-guessing, and doubting, and thinking maybe he's not so bad, maybe it's just the situation at hand, maybe it's me, maybe whatever ...

 

 

Read about narcissism if you're interested. One of the prime aspects that sticks out to me about narcissistic abuse is gas-lighting, or crazy-making - literally making you doubt your own reality, so you can't even trust your own mind or experiences. How much of that did you go through?

 

 

Overall, though, it sounds like you left him and spared yourself from TRUELY having to find out if he's a narcissist or not. Sounds like the other girl might not be so fortunate.

[Aayla]

Yes, of course, I agree we toss around diagnosis way too much. You may be right. However I will probably want to think about it further because I have a history of dating people who had similar characteristics (not proud...), some of them later having officially being diagnosed.

 

I guess I am trying to confirm the pattern to myself to avoid it more fiercely later on... when I was younger I didn't assume that people would do bad just for the sake of it.

 

Yes, I believe there was gas-lighting and crazy making, lot of it. "You are seeing things that aren't there" was one of his favorite phrases.

 

meta.morphate - that is precisely what is so frustrating. Not knowing if it was just a bad time for him or whatever, it's hard to process the evil deeds... I am trying not to emphatize with him, having in mind that all he did was for his personal pleasure, but part of me feels sorry. Sorry for the ****ty childhood, sorry 'cause he has no friends, sorry 'cause he doesn't love himself... I DON'T WANT TO FEEL SORRY. Maybe part of the problem is my obssesing over it. This probably just feeds his ego.

[lovely81]

Eek, I was in a similar situation. Reading about narcissism was interesting. I found it most helpful when it was aimed at recognizing what had hooked me into the situation/kept me involved in it. I really did end up feeling it was about lack of self-love.

 

His behavior sounds crazy and crazy-making. In my situation, I also would wonder how can he do this, it's so weird, but also it really didn't seem that weird when I thought of it as, he wants sex and attention and people keep giving it to him when he does these things. It's actually pretty logical.

 

I just kept strong in my head that I did not want to be with him, did no contact and pushed forward. Every day I thought a little less about it. All the drama is not worth it. I'd be prepared for him to get back with the other girl. You sound like you have a firm intellectual grasp of the situation and just need to walk the walk. If this guy is anything like the guy I was dealing with, he will push your boundaries. Watch out.

 

Also, "we had an open conversation about us, he told me he wasn't looking for anything serious." This alone is reason enough to never be with this guy. Maybe repeat it to yourself when you're having doubts.

 

Good luck! There are so many more normal people out there. Don't let his crazy become your normal.

[elaine567]

The trick is NOT to keep trying to diagnose these "toxic" individuals but to ask yourself why do you keep putting up with their nonsense?

Why do you stick around when their behaviour makes you sad, miserable, angry, frustrated, annoyed or even scared...?

Why you stick around when they are making you think you are "crazy"?

Why do you stick around when it is blatantly obvious to just about everyone else that they don't care a damn about you?

Why do you stick around whilst they drain your self confidence and self esteem?

 

etc. etc.

 

Read this

[meta.morphate]

^^ That was a useful and insightful post so thanks for sharing.

 

 

I think one of the reasons that women (myself included) often stay in these kinds of situations and spend time, during and after, trying to analyze the guy and figure out what's wrong with him, is because it's our way of trying to figure out whether something is wrong with us or not. Sometimes you aren't sure how this guy is treating other people on a personal level, and it seems like he treats everyone else better than you - so then, you wonder what's what's wrong with you. Because sometimes things aren't as easy to figure out within yourself (like, maybe you didn't have an abusive parent or a rotten childhood, and yet, you keep finding yourself in these situations). Also, it's a way of making the experiences that you've had that you've doubted all this time, real. By reading about narcissists, and reading other people's stories, it solidifies in your head that what happened to you really happened - because otherwise, you're always not so sure.

 

 

Something I heard just yesterday or the day before, that I've been so grateful to have heard and have been keeping in my head is, "respond to your reality, not his reasons." So, Aayla, I totally get what you're saying about feeling bad for him, and sort of getting sucked into his reasons or excuses or explanations for things - but those are the things that make you crazy and keep you stuck. You have to respond to your own reality. Its not easy to do , especially when you are dealing with someone who gas-lights you or plays other mind games, but its a good rule of thumb so try it. Maybe not with this dude, if you aren't involved with him anymore, but the next one. When he does something offensive, regardless of his reasons, respond to your reality and what the situation left YOU with. I'm trying to do the same.

[Rockdad]

Glad you thought better of yourself to break away from this situation. I feel sorry for that other girl.

[Aayla]

The trick is NOT to keep trying to diagnose these "toxic" individuals but to ask yourself why do you keep putting up with their nonsense?

Why do you stick around when their behaviour makes you sad, miserable, angry, frustrated, annoyed or even scared...?

Why you stick around when they are making you think you are "crazy"?

Why do you stick around when it is blatantly obvious to just about everyone else that they don't care a damn about you?

Why do you stick around whilst they drain your self confidence and self esteem?

 

etc. etc.

 

Read this

 

Great posts on the link you shared. It gave me some sober perspective. Fortunately I didn't fall into the comparison trap, as I know the "other girl" personally and never felt intimidated by anything she has to offer. Just another lost soul like me that doesn't value herself. Her contacting me with unnecessary details of their relationship after the break up tells me everything.... Blocked her after the last "update", all this post-break up drama is something I don't understand. Why can't people make a clean cut and leave the hurt to lick their wounds in peace?

 

 

Sometimes you aren't sure how this guy is treating other people on a personal level, and it seems like he treats everyone else better than you - so then, you wonder what's what's wrong with you.

 

Exactly. This is what I have the most problem with. I know it's so distorted and untrue but it seems like I got the crumbs of his attention, although rationally nobody really got anything since the guy is so self-absorbed. He told me in the moment of pain and crying that he has no "real", no healthy relationships with anyone. I think this is where we have to remember that we, on the other side, DO have friends and family, ARE nice people and the only thing keeping us from having better relationships is a lack of self-love. Which fortunately can be improved.

 

I just kept strong in my head that I did not want to be with him, did no contact and pushed forward. Every day I thought a little less about it. All the drama is not worth it. I'd be prepared for him to get back with the other girl. You sound like you have a firm intellectual grasp of the situation and just need to walk the walk. If this guy is anything like the guy I was dealing with, he will push your boundaries. Watch out.

 

Yes, yes and yes... it's so funny, you know, the whole getting back with the other girl thing... in my situation, she fed off of talking to me a bit yesterday, like, now she is sure he and I are not getting back together, and SOLELY because of that - it is not interesting anymore! Deep down she knows if she stays that she is next, and he'll replace her with another hook-up as soon as the opportunity arises, like the LAST 3 TIMES. It is really sad in it's essence, how predictable human beings are. Thank you for your kind words, I think it just has to be pushed through, no contact, no drama, no nothing. They feed off that.

 

"respond to your reality, not his reasons."

 

This. I might take this on as a mantra hahaha

The next time someone badmouths people in front of me but then tells me I'm the opposite of all that people, he'll have to take a hike.

 

Thank you for your insights, I know this is a very common theme but knowing that there are normal people out there who still have empathy for other humans makes me feel a lot better.