Brother cutting himself off from family and friends to live with a fruitloop...

[BWFMT]

I will keep this as brief as possible whilst being as concise as possible regarding the situation myself and my parents have recently found ourselves in regarding my younger brother.

 

My brother and I have more or less always got on - we have lived together the past five years in London, have (or should say 'had') mutual friends and used to go out for meals, or clubbing together all the time. I stopped clubbing a few years back but we still had a decent home life, which of course my parents were really happy about; that both of their children got on, lived together and were both safe and secure. Of late he has become insufferable; a slob around the house, will not buy any shared household items, completely ignores my parents for weeks/ months at a time. I sympathise with my mom entirely having to deal with him as a teenager, as it seems he has never quite moved beyond those years; still lives for the weekend; clubs, drinks and party drugs.

 

Rewind to February this year, when he met his most recent girlfriend on Tinder. I had my doubts about anything long lasting coming from Tinder, however I was supportive and at first she was nice. We would have coffee together, but then they kept fighting (literally a month into the relationship and they were splitting up, then back together, then splitting up....)

 

She finally pulled me aside in May after a disastrous weekend where he took her to Brighton for the weekend, supposedly for a romantic break, however he invited a load of his friends when they got there and she was bleating on about his drug use and how she was scared of him because he got violent when he was high or drunk (no surprise, I once berated him for physically throwing an ex girlfriend out of our house and told her about this). I gave the same advice that I would give anyone - it is too early for you to be having these kind of issues, clearly you are incompatible. She went on and text him later that day saying they were over, for good this time.

 

He went to meet her on the Friday, and then decided to text me at 3am telling me that she had been all over someone in front of him, gone off to the toilets to do drugs (the very thing she was complaining about my brother doing some five days previous) and that she was: "A C**t", that he never wanted to see or speak to her again and that I was right about her. I assumed this was the end of it. Sadly, it gets worse....

 

The following week and he is creeping around with her; bringing her home but keeping her hidden, lying to me, our parents and our shared friends.

 

One mutual friend has all but washed her hands of him now, and to quote her "I can tell when they have split up again, because he starts talking to me. When they are back together, he ignores me". She confronted him and told him he is a terrible friend, and his response was simply "we know this" I'm baffled at how someone can think it acceptable to keep repeating such negative behaviours (is that not the definition of insanity? to keep repeating negative behaviours, and expecting a different result?)

 

When I asked my brother "are you back together?" He adamantly denied it and has not spoken to me since. This was in June, and has made for a very uncomfortable living situation.

 

Anyways, I went for dinner with our mutual friend who opened a whole new section to this saga. While they were split up the girlfriend told him she was pregnant, but that she would terminate the baby. Then apparently missed the abortion because she was too high (WHY would you stay with a person who openly told you they were on so many drugs they missed an abortion?). Never fear though as she 'thinks' she had a miscarriage (again, how can a person not be sure they miscarried?)

 

I have not spoken to my brother about this, although knew about the supposed pregnancy. However it seems she is being entirely manipulative and opportunistic to my eye...!

 

So, to the present day, July 2017 (a whole 5 months on from when they met. All this drama has taken less than 6 months). My brother announced he is moving out on August 1. For some reason he has told our father he is going to Greece on August 1. When asked who he is moving with the response is 'living by myself', however a quick check of the girlfriends Facebook shows she is sharing her room for rent ad as she needs to move August 1. Not so hard to work out they are moving in together really, although not a single soul seems to know anything about this.

 

Our mutual friend saw him on Friday at the station, 3 days ago. He told her that he meets this girl 'once a week as a FWB', but they are definitely not in a relationship. She text me the other week asking if I had a problem with her and that they were back together and had made lots of changes to make it work (I responded telling her I really do not care and would appreciate not being kept up to date with their relationship)

 

I know for a fact she has been here 4 nights over the last week. I couldn't care less to be frank, but I am struggling to understand the lies and secrecy! Who is it benefiting, and why would someone lie through their teeth like this? Is he ashamed that they both caused so much drama, and said so much about each other that he now knows everyone sees them as a disaster of a relationship (which they are).

 

My mom had a random text message from him last night to ask if she liked his new trousers, and then went on to tell her that he had shoplifted them. My brother has a well paid job; he has no need to shoplift anything. My mom thinks he is going through a breakdown. I personally cannot wait for him to leave the house, we all know we will likely never hear from him again so it is something of a bittersweet feeling. I would hate to think I would never hear from him again, but it seems he is shrouding himself in this weird world of deceit and going down a very dark path.

 

I guess what I want to know is; has anyone found themselves in a similar situation? I know siblings grow apart, but this seems extreme and sudden!

 

(Tried to keep it short.... sorry!)

[GunslingerRoland]

Wait, which one is the fruit loop? It sounds like she is a symptom rather than a cause of his issues.

[Denison]

I had a somewhat similar issue with a brother and his choice in spouse recently. Also similar, in that both my brother, and the spouse, clearly have issues. The advice I most often received was "it's none of your business" and "your brother is going to do what he's going to do, and if you want a relationship with him, you better accept that." I don't agree with those sentiments, but I do somewhat agree that there's only so much you can do here. You have a brother who appears to act "unreasonably" to put it mildly, and he's found someone who appears to be equally unpredictable and unreliable. But, you seemed to have washed your hands of this situation entirely without even having to put in any effort, as he's moved out of the apartment. I think this is actually a great opportunity for you to continue loving and caring for your brother's well-being, but doing so from a distance. His every unpredictable and unreliable move won't effect you anymore (well, as much as it used to), now that you'll no longer be his roommate. Sure, you'll shake your head at what he's doing, where he's going, who he's with (presumably this girl at least for a while), but you no longer have to live with it.

 

So I can't sit here and say "who cares, just let him go and do whatever he wants," because I couldn't take that advice in my own situation, and it's simplistic and unrealistic advice anyway. But try to see how things play out when he moves out, and maybe you find that it's quite a relief. It stinks that it upsets your parents (if it does, maybe I misread that), but just like in my situation I won't bore you with, you have to let your parents either be enablers or show tough love. As a new parent, I can sort of sympathize with how tough it is for a parent to cut off a kid who screws up a lot, or is irresponsible (again, I'm not sure that's relevant here, but if it is). Anyway, see how things play out, and maybe if its' still affecting you greatly after he no longer lives with you, revisit the situation then. All you can really do is give him some advice, warranted or not, and let him figure out his own ****. Easier said than done, I know!

[BWFMT]

Denison; thank you. That has made me feel a lot better.

 

It is one of those situations where we have all tried, and I think you are right - she is an enabler (I said this months ago before the drama started; that she enables his bad behaviour, based on a rather shameful display of behaviour between them at a sushi restaurant - won't bore you with details but he cannot use chopsticks, rather than ask for a fork he ate everything with his hands, spat things onto the plate he didn't like - she followed suit, eating with her hands and laughing at his bad behaviours. Red flags started popping up then, and I said the same to my mom 'she will enable him to be an a**')

 

It just saddens me that it has come to this; in some ways I am looking forward to not having to deal with him anymore, or deal with the secret girlfriend creeping around. I do worry that he won't speak to me again. I think the problem is that he is being manipulated and cannot see it (I have not said this to him, or anything about his moving out beyond the more pragmatic, business side of things - rent needs to be paid by September, deposit will come once you etc. etc.') but I do find the not telling anyone, family or friends, that he is going (or who with) peculiar.

 

Not my place to say - I think my best hope is to send him a text on the moving date and wish him well. I think he will realise sooner than later that he has had it easy living with me (never had his name on any bills - never dealt with any house maintenance, or housework for that matter) and the general consensus is that he is likely to want to move back in eventually. And, sadly, that is not something that I can allow at this point. I just hope he doesn't vanish permanently from my life.

 

Families... what an absolute pain in the a** they can be at times.

[Denison]

Yeah, that's the hard thing, my friend. You see loved ones being manipulated and they are too wrapped up in the situation to see it. My situation is exactly that...it involves my brother being manipulated as well as my parents by a legitimately bad, dishonest and disloyal spouse. But there is, literally, nothing you can do, besides just letting your brother figure his stuff out. It's not like he's coming to you for support and advice and you're turning him away. He's off doing his own thing, and being an adult, he has to make his own mistakes and suffer the consequences of those mistakes (obviously within reason). Again, I would just try to enjoy the freedom of no longer having the drama of his habits and his toxic relationship.

[stillafool]

I personally wouldn't care who my brother lives with or dates. He is grown and can make his own mistakes and decisions. He obviously was keeping her hidden because he knows you don't approve of her.

[LuckyLady13]

Your brother is a grown man. You called his girlfriend a fruitloop and actually told her they are incompatible, hoping to break them up early in the relationship? Despite their chaotic start, they are going to be together, which your brother is showing you.

 

You have to accept her and accept that your brother isn't going to live with you forever, he's moving on with his life as an individual and learn to get along with both of them because if you don't, you're not going to hear from your brother.

 

Your meddling in their relationship started before they even were dating because, as you said, you didn't think he'd find a long lasting relationship on Tinder. Plenty of people find a long relationship from Tinder after a hookup.

 

Your language about this situation has pointed to you being against this relationship before it started and once it did start, you stayed stubborn about it. You have to learn to accept your lives are changing and he's branching out away from you but you have been pushing him further away than he would've went on his own by not being part of things in his life. If you keep pitting yourself against his girlfriend choice, you're showing you only want him single with you and he's going to choose her over you for multiple and obvious reasons. Despite what you want, he finds her fun to be with most of the time which is why he is "creeping around with her" and not you.

 

If you change your tactics and come from a place where you're open to the idea of those two dating each other and care enough to discuss with them how they can get along better (instead of trying to break them up), you'll be in his life.

[darkmoon]

nothing my brother would do would make me berate or alienate him, just nothing, at least have a chat with him now and again

Edited July 27, 2017 by darkmoon

[BWFMT]

Your brother is a grown man. You called his girlfriend a fruitloop and actually told her they are incompatible, hoping to break them up early in the relationship? Despite their chaotic start, they are going to be together, which your brother is showing you.

 

You have to accept her and accept that your brother isn't going to live with you forever, he's moving on with his life as an individual and learn to get along with both of them because if you don't, you're not going to hear from your brother.

 

Your meddling in their relationship started before they even were dating because, as you said, you didn't think he'd find a long lasting relationship on Tinder. Plenty of people find a long relationship from Tinder after a hookup.

 

Your language about this situation has pointed to you being against this relationship before it started and once it did start, you stayed stubborn about it. You have to learn to accept your lives are changing and he's branching out away from you but you have been pushing him further away than he would've went on his own by not being part of things in his life. If you keep pitting yourself against his girlfriend choice, you're showing you only want him single with you and he's going to choose her over you for multiple and obvious reasons. Despite what you want, he finds her fun to be with most of the time which is why he is "creeping around with her" and not you.

 

If you change your tactics and come from a place where you're open to the idea of those two dating each other and care enough to discuss with them how they can get along better (instead of trying to break them up), you'll be in his life.

 

I told her they were incompatible when she came crying to me, interrupting my otherwise nice day, crying on my shoulder telling me she was scared of him. I have had no desire to be involved in their relationship from day one, they both dragged me into it! I liked her, at the start, and then the pregnancy/ too high to go to the abortion/ fighting like cat and dog kinda sealed the deal that they are incompatible and that she is indeed a few cakes short of a picnic?

 

I mean, if someone came to you and told you these things about a person they were dating would you seriously sit back and tell them to stay with that person? I have pretty strong opinions about someone lying about pregnancy and miscarriage, i.e. YOU DO NOT LIE ABOUT THAT. Period!

 

I never meddled, I gave an opinion that I was asked for and you seem to have entirely missed the point that my brother, and the girlfriend BOTH approached me individually to ask me for advice. Personally I spend plenty of my working day listening to peoples problems and could do without it at home as well.

 

Your response also doesn't explain why he is completely blanking our parents, and has been for months. Why he is lying to all his friends (not just me).

 

Yes he is a grown man, and he is going to learn the hard way that there are people out there that will play him for a fool. I've made my decision that I will wish him all the best in life when he leaves, let him know that I am always here for him, and he can take that as he likes. Sadly, I am sure it will go the way he is with my parents and we will never hear from him again.

[BWFMT]

I personally wouldn't care who my brother lives with or dates. He is grown and can make his own mistakes and decisions. He obviously was keeping her hidden because he knows you don't approve of her.

 

I don't particularly care. I was dragged into it. They both approached me, individually for advice. As for keeping her hidden; would make sense if it was just me he was hiding her from. But he has told numerous friends of ours they are either not together, or FWBs. For some reason he is lying about the relationship with her to everyone and that is what bothers me the most.

[preraph]

Not sure what became of the pregnancy, but neither your brother nor her has a brain bringing a child into the world when between them they don't have the common sense or self-control of a gnat.

 

I think why your brother went bad is because he's addicted to drugs or something. And now she probably is too. I'd be GLAD he moves out because your poor parents and then if he's an addict they better change their locks or he'll be over there stealing their stuff before long.

 

I know you've been close and your loyalty is to him, but he is no better than her and probably worse. They're both irresponsible idiots. I'd rather see them abort the child than for them two to raise it.

 

My best advice is you find a new friend and leave your brother to his degeneration because it's going to go on for a long time and probably only get worse. Don't blame the woman. She didn't make him a violent addict. She came to you for help. I hope she has somewhere else to turn. She should just run far away and then have the govt get his child support checks.

[BWFMT]

Not sure what became of the pregnancy, but neither your brother nor her has a brain bringing a child into the world when between them they don't have the common sense or self-control of a gnat.

 

I think why your brother went bad is because he's addicted to drugs or something. And now she probably is too. I'd be GLAD he moves out because your poor parents and then if he's an addict they better change their locks or he'll be over there stealing their stuff before long.

 

I know you've been close and your loyalty is to him, but he is no better than her and probably worse. They're both irresponsible idiots. I'd rather see them abort the child than for them two to raise it.

 

My best advice is you find a new friend and leave your brother to his degeneration because it's going to go on for a long time and probably only get worse. Don't blame the woman. She didn't make him a violent addict. She came to you for help. I hope she has somewhere else to turn. She should just run far away and then have the govt get his child support checks.

 

It has been suggested from one or two of my other friends that maybe he is a bit too heavy on the drugs. I know for a fact that he regularly uses cocaine, and told me back in May after they first fell out that he would get rid of the drugs. Didn't last five minutes and I spotted him being picked up by a local dealer before too long.

 

I think it is something of a catch 22; she has admitted to using crack and crystal meth in the past, and lost her last job for closing up early and doing drugs in the office. So not a model of innocence...

 

With regards to the pregnancy... I don't think there ever was one. When she said she thought she had miscarried I spoke to a friend of mine who works as a surgeon. He was adamant there would be no uncertainty as to whether she had miscarried or not. But you have hit the nail on the head; they've known each other five months, I don't even know what they are doing having unprotected sex!

 

I cannot work out if they are perfect for each other or if they will destroy each other. At this point I cannot wait for his departure, but it does cut deep knowing how he is now with my parents that this is probably it. We grew up in a low income family, and my parents did everything to make sure we had happy childhoods. The way he completely ignores them (unless he wants something) breaks my heart, and I can tell it hurts my mom.

 

I guess everyone makes their own choices in life, somewhere down the line he will have that moment that he wasted precious time with family. He will have to live with that regret once they're gone... at this point we definitely have less years with them than we have had.