She is seeing someone else

[Goodguy05]

Thank you for all your replies. I have found out that my counsellor is away until the 4th September, so I am freaking out about that. I would usually have had a session with her today, which I could have obviously really done with. I have found a dedicated LGBT domestic abuse service that offers free counselling, and just spoken to someone who said I can be assigned a case worker (offering emotional support, counselling, etc) within a few days. I'm really hoping that that's a quick service as I have woken up this morning full of anxiety, sweating, etc. I really am freaking out.

 

I am also consumed with the urge to contact her. Even just to write one line with something like "You've broken my heart" - she wouldn't feel guilty if I did that. She'd either ignore me or say something cruel.Even so, the urge is there and I've considered doing things like emailing her back or calling her from a withheld number just to say that (withheld so that she doesn't see my new number).

 

The most horrid thing about all of this is all I want is to speak to her. And then I remind myself that she's with someone else and doesn't care about me or the relationship (which was one of the things she said) and is probably sleeping with this man. All I can think about are things like the two of them sleeping together, in different positions... almost any time I try and relax or go to sleep those thoughts are there. Even seeing couples on the TV or seeing a couple kissing reminds me that that's what she's doing now and how she must be consumed with infatuation for this person, and how she must view me as pathetic and how much she doesn't even think about me anymore. All of that makes me feel sick and I have such a feeling of inner pain that I feel like I'm going to explode. And I have no idea how to manage these feelings.

 

Last night I ran myself a bath, and tried my best to relax. I did the soothing music thing as I went to bed. Cooked myself my favourite meal. Watched a film. I called a friend to talk about nonsense. But it's still here, the pain is still here. And I'm never going to speak to or see her again and it's killing me. I just wish I didn't feel like this.

 

 

It's normal ur not alone in these feelings many of us on here can relate trust me.

 

Remember these words it might help somewhat the reason ur feelings are so intense is because "rejection breeds obsession"

 

Give it a few more weeks in the intensity will decrease a little at least so u can breathe the first few weeks of my break up were awful. I remember walking up and down the beach hyperventilating just pacing non stop. We have night markets and no joke the only thing that settled me that night was a pyshcic at the market I consulted who gave me a little hope. I know how intense those first few weeks can be. Ur ex will get hers.

Once ur healed and couldn't give two ****s about her she will be running back but it'll be too late by then.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Goodguy05

[clist8511]

vickyp - It’s so strange to hear someone talking about a relationship like that which fits the exact same pattern as the one I was just in. It’s also amazing to hear that you’re almost OK at just two months NC. Almost the same length as my relationship, too. I can’t wait until I’m where you are. And also, I really really really appreciate the reply. I’m literally here checking for replies all the time. It really helps.

 

Gillys - That’s the worst thing. When you have some idea how they’ll reply in your head and it’s the total opposite to what happens in real life. I did go ahead and write a post in the coping section, and it felt like I still wanted to send her the email afterwards. I still haven’t done it. In the old days I would have just sent it, but something’s stopping me.

 

Jagged100 - Her reply? In all honesty, I don’t want a reply. I really don’t. I was intending to create a new email account, send it, then immediately delete the account. The purpose of sending it is, I think, to be honest and tell her that she’s caused some severe emotional pain, and has scarred me. How much it hurts that she has discarded me in such a cruel way, how much I trusted her not to do something like this knowing that I have had this done to me before, letting her know that I loved her and have been devastated by this. I don’t want a reply because she will either say something cruel, or not answer at all. That’s why I would delete the account immediately. I don’t know. I’m just still in a lot of shock, I suppose.

 

Goodguy05 - I’m sorry to hear that you had the same experience and that thing with the hyperventilating… it sounds horrible. It doesn’t sound stupid either that you found comfort in something like that. We often find comfort in places we wouldn’t expect, I suppose. It will be too late, yes. The thing is I don’t want her back. I wouldn’t go near her, now. I just feel betrayed and rejected. Strangely one of the things she said to me after I found out was that we couldn’t meet up because we would end up back in ‘that cycle’ - I don’t know what that meant, but I don’t know how she thought I would ever entertain being with her again. Never.

[Jt93]

Hi Clist!

 

Fellow Brit here too!

 

My ex of 5 years split from me in May and things ended a bit sour and i have my suspicions about someone else being there although she hasnt admitted it (you can read my post but it is rather long). Talking on here helped get things off my chest as per my post....

 

Go NC and keep it like that, no matter how hard it seems it is doing you good. i am around 2 months NC now near enough and i am feeling much better for it.

 

I am no way over it or her but i feel way better! she even tried to contact me to see how i was about a month ago but ignored them messages.

 

Keep up the good work and i promise things will get easier! ive found going to the gym has helped me tremendously, i do not think about her ever when i am there and it is helping me physically too!

 

If you or anyone else wants to get things off their chest, then do it! the forums are here or I will talk to anyone to try and help with my little experience.

[fieldoflavender]

Don't write anything more to them. To be honest, they don't even deserve the education piece. I plan to let them just think that they're right, and they will keep making the same mistakes in their next relationship. It's not my role to educate them anymore. I will take away the lessons I learn and improve myself and I will be a way better partner for the next person and they won't get to enjoy any of that.

 

Whereas why should I educate them so they will be a better person? They need to figure that out for themselves. If they were a decent person, they may get to understand how they made someone they supposedly cared about feel - but what is the point now? No point.

 

Sometimes the best punishment you can give them is indifference - they can go living the way they think is best for them and it'll catch up with them one day or the other. We can move on and live our life the way we want.

[Jsos91]

Hey there,

 

I feel your pain, I had a 5 year relationship end a few years back because of an affair, I then met someone who I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life with and she recently left me citing someone else as ONE of the reasons. Even after all of that I still don't think there's anything wrong with me, I just seem to attract these types of women.

 

I immediately went NC with her, she tried to guilt trip me and keep me around to ease her guilt and to offer a backup plan. People for some reason like to do that when they dump someone. It was SO hard the first while, I went back and forth on wether to reach out and see if she missed me but I didn't. I knew the pain of her not giving me what I wanted would hurt a hell of a lot more than the pain of just not knowing. She's now away in another country until the end of August and it's alleviated a lot of the pressure and wondering. She did message me every week until she left (about meaningless items).

 

Just go NC, it will hurt like hell but once you get past that initial hurdle you'll feel worlds better and will have saved face and dignity. Don't get me wrong, it's only been 2 months and I still have my down days where i feel a bit lost. It'll be a roller coaster ride and it will test you to your very soul and being, but you'll get through it. Just look to the future and know that brighter days will come. You have friends and you have us here on LS for support.

[Jagged100]

Do NOT send that email, what does it really achieve? She does not love or care about you. If she did, she'd never have acted the way she has. If some random person sent you an email telling you how much you've hurt them etc, you wouldn't be affected because you aren't emotionally attached to them. This is exactly why it won't affect your ex in any way except to give her a feeling of superiority because she's gotten you to react.

 

Trust me when I say this, the narcissists want your attention whether negative or positive. The best way to "win" is ignore them and move on with your life. Use all your energy to make your life better and not focus on the past. You can't change what's happened but you can affect what will happen.

[vickyp]

Trust me I know exactly how you feel. Your not alone. If I can try to make you laugh in my situation the moron ended it over text. Lol. There isn't anyone else in my situation, but that toxic name calling stings abit, but I'm slowly starting to value myself, and look at the big picture and say, yep wasn't for me. I wouldn't spend my time writing or replying to anything. Not now. Your still too fragile. Plus what's the point? Too open up old wounds, or too feel crappy again? No way. Work on yourself and listen to the advice of people here. This forum for me, was a God sent. Take care and keep posting, and remember stay strong.

[stockyoldfrump]

This has helped me:

 

Think of any movie you've ever seen where a protagonist has been at his/her lowest possible point. Think of Rocky or Batman in the Dark Knight Rises or any other reference point that might be more relatable to you.

 

Identify with that now. That is you. That character was broken, they were defeated, they were lost, they were hopeless, they were reduced to the worst thing next to nothingness. And, yet, they were STILL the main character in the story. The camera didn't shift to someone else whose life was better or more convenient. It lingered on them, because ultimately suffering and hardship - if utilized properly - is the most fascinating, productive thing any of us can endure. It's also, more than anything, the thing that makes us human.

 

Let go of the idea that you're not at rock bottom. The notion that maybe things aren't so bad or that maybe you can fix things quickly or that maybe things will get better tomorrow...that notion needs to go. You have bottomed out. Let yourself feel that. Your goal now is to look around, take stock of the wreckage, and rebuild yourself into something stronger.

 

Instead of asking "what can I say to her" ask yourself "what can I do today to make myself a better person?" At this point, live with the fact that everything is lost. All you have is the control you have over yourself. And in that control, everything should come back to one question:

 

"What kind of person do I want myself to be?"

 

The ONLY thing that matters now is inching closer to that person every day. Bit by bit, minute by minute, hour by hour. Anything that doesn't help that goal needs to be forgotten. That means reaching out for someone else's validation or making yourself into an annoyance to someone who doesn't care. Because you don't want to be someone else's crutch and you don't want to be an annoyance. You want something more. THAT something is a goal. That goal is all you have. Everything else is gone.

 

Live in that. And then start moving toward the realization of who you want to be. Before you know it you'll be on your way. And when you are, you'll no longer recognize yourself as the person she walked out on. Trust me, that gives you an immense sense of power and autonomy.

[fieldoflavender]

This has helped me:

 

Think of any movie you've ever seen where a protagonist has been at his/her lowest possible point. Think of Rocky or Batman in the Dark Knight Rises or any other reference point that might be more relatable to you.

 

Identify with that now. That is you. That character was broken, they were defeated, they were lost, they were hopeless, they were reduced to the worst thing next to nothingness. And, yet, they were STILL the main character in the story. The camera didn't shift to someone else whose life was better or more convenient. It lingered on them, because ultimately suffering and hardship - if utilized properly - is the most fascinating, productive thing any of us can endure. It's also, more than anything, the thing that makes us human.

 

Let go of the idea that you're not at rock bottom. The notion that maybe things aren't so bad or that maybe you can fix things quickly or that maybe things will get better tomorrow...that notion needs to go. You have bottomed out. Let yourself feel that. Your goal now is to look around, take stock of the wreckage, and rebuild yourself into something stronger.

 

Instead of asking "what can I say to her" ask yourself "what can I do today to make myself a better person?" At this point, live with the fact that everything is lost. All you have is the control you have over yourself. And in that control, everything should come back to one question:

 

"What kind of person do I want myself to be?"

 

The ONLY thing that matters now is inching closer to that person every day. Bit by bit, minute by minute, hour by hour. Anything that doesn't help that goal needs to be forgotten. That means reaching out for someone else's validation or making yourself into an annoyance to someone who doesn't care. Because you don't want to be someone else's crutch and you don't want to be an annoyance. You want something more. THAT something is a goal. That goal is all you have. Everything else is gone.

 

Live in that. And then start moving toward the realization of who you want to be. Before you know it you'll be on your way. And when you are, you'll no longer recognize yourself as the person she walked out on. Trust me, that gives you an immense sense of power and autonomy.

 

This is a great post. And when you make all those improvements, the person who deserted you when you were at your lowest doesn't deserve to enjoy those improvements - someone BETTER does. Or even just enjoy for yourself. And you'll try your darn best to let anyone take advantage or abuse you at your lowest ever again. And you won't hurt anyone else the same way either.

[clist8511]

stockyoldfrump - That is wonderful advice. I have read that twice, thoroughly. I mean, yes - I am now at the stage that I am a blank canvas. I can channel all of this energy into being who I want to be, and all WITHOUT an annoying dictator dishing out constant asides. I can be free. Free to get back to who I used to be, without this deep anxiety. Without having panic attacks every night because I’ve been broken up with after a petty argument. Free to go wherever I want without lying about it. Sorry, I went on a tangent… you’re right. Make every second count. Thank you. You don’t know how much that means to me. This is such a dark time and all of these replies are like little blinking lights at the end of a tunnel.

[clist8511]

I suppose just an update...

 

I didn't send the email. I weighed out the pros and cons and there were no pros. She wouldn't care. She is justified for doing this to me in some way or the other (in her mind) and it is a waste of energy trying to get through to her. The amount of times during the relationship in which I had to almost spell out why I was hurt and why this and why that - shouldn't have to explain basic kindness to people.

 

I can remember one time when she was arguing with me (I can't even remember what it was over) and I was at college. I had to leave the building as I was in tears and I phoned her to tell her, you know, why are you doing this? She just told me she didn't want to talk to me and told me to 'go and sit in a coffee shop or something, I'm busy'. And SHE had caused the pain. I mean, really.

 

I bought a book about life after psychopaths, narcs, toxics etc - there must have been a list of 30 red flags and she had done ALL of them. I mean, that's crazy. How can you fit every single symptom?

 

Had a bit of an anxiety attack earlier while I was in the park, and had to come home. I went to my local urgent care centre to see what help I could get, and they're writing to my doctor in the morning and chasing up the psychotherapy I was already waiting for. So that's good news. I just want to be me, again. I genuinely wish I hadn't met this woman - I know people say that as an insult or whatever, but I really wish I had no knowledge of her existence. I feel like I let myself down by being with her - I feel bad that I put myself through that, and let someone do that to me. If it was possible to give yourself a big hug, I really would.

 

She's horrible. I realise that this mood won't last forever, but right now I can see clearly and this is eventually how I want to feel 24/7.

[clist8511]

I think it's been around 4/5 days NC, now - I'm really struggling. I've been doing all of the things suggested (well, trying to) but at the end of the day I just feel like lying in bed and sleeping or contacting her.

 

I feel like my life has no purpose and I feel like I'm waiting for something, but then I remind myself that she isn't coming back and I feel worse. I hate this so much. All I want to do is speak to her.

[stockyoldfrump]

I think it's been around 4/5 days NC, now - I'm really struggling. I've been doing all of the things suggested (well, trying to) but at the end of the day I just feel like lying in bed and sleeping or contacting her.

 

I feel like my life has no purpose and I feel like I'm waiting for something, but then I remind myself that she isn't coming back and I feel worse. I hate this so much. All I want to do is speak to her.

 

 

Not to diminish your experience, but this is everyone's first week of no contact. Frankly, it might be your first few weeks of no contact.

 

The good news is, it will get better, as trite as that sounds. My girlfriend broke up with me six weeks ago and I was exactly like you. Couldn't move or think or function. Today I don't really feel the absence all that much. I still miss her and love her, but I don't feel the vacancy every second like I'm sure you do right now.

 

You just have to suffer through this. Grit your teeth and make it your goal to get to the end of the day. I can't possibly recommend therapy enough, as much as you can get it. One day, like magic, it just won't hurt the same way.

[clist8511]

That's fair enough, I appreciate that it's still very early days and everything is still raw. I just feel like out of the two friends that I have, neither of them understand. There are a few other things happening in my life right now, and my ex would always be there for me - on the end of the phone, willing to offer advice. Ready to pop over whenever. I feel stupid for wanting to call her. I have no idea what I'm doing, anymore.

[stockyoldfrump]

That's fair enough, I appreciate that it's still very early days and everything is still raw. I just feel like out of the two friends that I have, neither of them understand. There are a few other things happening in my life right now, and my ex would always be there for me - on the end of the phone, willing to offer advice. Ready to pop over whenever. I feel stupid for wanting to call her. I have no idea what I'm doing, anymore.

 

That's absolutely the hardest part. You've been trained to look to this person not only in times of normalcy, but in times of emotional highs and lows. So now that you're suffering, your first instinct is to reach out to her - even though she is the source of the suffering itself. It's the most awful feeling.

 

A lot of it is really just about retraining yourself, which is always hard and takes time. Even little things get easier with repetition. At first you wake up every day awaiting a text from them, then one day you don't even think to check. If you put little routines in place, they become the new foundation of your life. You stop focusing on what isn't there and start being governed by what is.

 

Order is helpful. Watch the same TV show every day at the same time. Go to the gym or to therapy at the same time every single day. All of a sudden, one day you wake up and it's not "if she were here, I'd be doing this" but rather "in two hours I'm going to have to go to the gym." Doesn't sound like a dream come true, but it makes all the difference.

 

Also, remember, change disguises loss and sameness magnifies it. The more you allow your life to be exactly as it was when she was there, the more you will notice something missing. The more you make it something totally different, the more her absence will feel like part of a broader change rather than the defining one. The more you can trick yourself into feeling like EVERYTHING has changed, the less apparent her absence will be. This can only be done by creating new routine, starting new activities, cultivating new habits, and pushing yourself to create a foundation for a life she wouldn't even recognize.

[The411]

I feel like I've wasted two years of my life. I keep thinking that she surely must feel some kind of guilt, but she never seemed to show any, just frustration and cruel insults and gloating about this man. I keep feeling like contacting her, but I won't. I am feeling the worst I have felt in a good few years. I suppose I should have realised that she could exhibit such ruthlessness, based on the way she treated me during the relationship.

 

• Wouldn't let me see friends/family when I had free time; I always had to put her first, EVERY TIME. The only way out of that was to lie and say I was busy so that I could see other people in my life. When I was with friends I had to lie and say I was sleeping/shopping/at school and that was so draining.
   
  
• Would come to my house to stay and dictate everything - the times we ate, went to sleep, woke up, what we'd do, where MY cat would be allowed to sit/sleep - if I dared to ask when she was going home even casually, she'd go into a strop and leave immediately there and then, despite me only asking to just get a general idea.
   
  
• Told me she would leave me if I got another tattoo, which just seems an odd thing to say.
   
  
• Encouraged me to study and go back to school and attend a quite demanding course - while I was working on the assignments or had to be reading for them, she'd complain that I was always too busy for her, starting arguments over the phone, non stop texts, stressing me out to the point that I couldn't even concentrate and just scraped through with a pass on that course, when I could have done so much better. That course was also the decider on whether I got into uni, and if I had failed would not have got another chance at due to it costing a lot of money.
   
  
• Wouldn't let me exercise at the times I wanted to; again called me 'rigid' and complained on me non prioritising her. I subsequently gave up working out to keep the peace and put on weight, lost confidence in myself, low self-esteem.
   
  
• Suffered extreme anxiety and depression. Usually in the night when she would break up with me and turn her phone off or block me after arguments. Would tell me to 'have a good night, good night' while I was trying to talk to her about these instances that she caused. Called ambulances out about three or four times for that.
   
  
• Constant criticisms whenever she would come to my house. Insidious comments that were designed to make me feel stupid and dumb about whatever I might have been doing. Simple things from even putting a dressing gown on and her saying "that dressing gown is so UGLY!". very rude person.
   
  
• Followed her ex on social media and was in constant contact with him, even at one point having a full album of him on her phone full of topless pictures. I was never allowed to contact my most recent ex, and I was told I wasn't trusted even though I never did anything like that (with the photos).
   
  
• Went through my phone several times when I was asleep using my thumb to unlock it. Became quite proud of it and would say "yeah, I did, so what?" When confronted.
   
  
• Played the victim. Doing it now with the number issue, overlooking what she's done to me.
  

 

Despite all of this, I am still devastated and I don't know why. Look at all the ways in which she abused me as a person and broke me down, and that's not even all of them. I feel traumatised, I'm still shaking and haven't eaten for two days. I feel like I've witnessed some kind of trauma. Why do I even care or miss her or any of that?

 

Clist8511,

 

You may not realize this, but you are suffering from PTSD. Everything you described in your post screams Borderline Personality Disorder. While it's not my place to diagnose anyone if you posted those behaviors over on the BPD central message board you'd have 50-100 posters saying their BPD ex did exact same thing, which would also include yours truly.

 

 

I would also add to my list stop walking in eggshells by Randi Kruger. Once you understand how BPD works you'll understand why you can never contact her again and why she'll never truly be happy and isn't capable of love.

 

You will go through terrible withdrawal similar to what drug addicts go through from a mental perspective. Stay strong, do not cave. The only way through is with no contact, therapy, time, and patience.

 

The only thing that can hurt you is re engaging with her.

Edited August 6, 2017 by The411

[Downtown]

C-List, I'm glad you attracted the attention of The411. I agree with him that the behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational jealousy, very controlling actions, temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, verbal abuse, rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you), and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exGF has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit strong traits of it. That is, she may be a "BPDer," i.e., be on the upper third of the BPD spectrum without necessarily exhibiting full-blown BPD.

 

How could someone who I was with for two years completely switch on me, turn against me, tell me they didn't care about our relationship and be so cruel?

BPDers can flip -- in less than a minute -- from Jekyll (adoring you) to Hyde (devaluing you). And they can flip back again just as quickly. These rapid flips arise from "black-white thinking." Like a young child, a BPDer is too emotionally immature to be able to handle strong conflicting feelings (e.g., love and hate). A BPDer therefore has great difficulty tolerating ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other gray areas of close interpersonal relationships.

 

She therefore will categorize everyone close to her as "all good" (i.e., "white" or "with me") or "all bad" (i.e., "black" or "against me"). And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or action. This B-W thinking also will be evident in the frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You NEVER..." and "You ALWAYS...." Because a BPDer's close friends eventually will be "split black," it is unusual for a BPDer to have really close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away).

 

These people (including this woman) are awful people. Terrible people.

If she really is a BPDer who has no other serious mental issues, she is neither "awful" nor "terrible." A BPDer's problem is not being AWFUL but, rather, being UNSTABLE. The vast majority of BPDers typically are great folks to be around while they are perceiving of you as "all good" (i.e., "with them"). And they can be terrible to be around while they are perceiving of you as "all bad" (i.e., "against them).

 

BPDers categorize everyone close to them in this black-white manner because they are too emotionally immature to handle being in touch with two strong conflicting feelings at the same time. You will see this all-or-nothing behavior in a four year old who adores Daddy while he's bringing out the toys but, in a few seconds, will flip to hating Daddy when he takes one toy away.

 

I feel like I've lost my mind.

If you really have been dating a BPDer for two years, that is exactly how you should be feeling. Of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. This is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

She's broken up with me many times.

BPDer relationships are notorious for having numerous breakups. A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that nearly a fourth of them (23%) went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before eventually ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll.

 

This repeating cycle of push-you-away and pull-you-back is one of the hallmarks of a BPDer relationship. It occurs because a BPDer's two great fears (abandonment and engulfment) lie at the opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means that it is impossible for you to back away from triggering one of her fears without starting to trigger the other fear.

 

As you draw close to assure her of your love, for example, you will trigger a BPDer's engulfment fear because, although BPDers crave intimacy, they cannot tolerate it for very long. Due to a BPDer's fragile, weak sense of self identity, she will quickly feel like you're trying to control her -- and she will get the scary feeling of being suffocated or engulfed.

 

Yet, as you back away to give her breathing space, you unavoidably will start triggering her abandonment fear. Hence, if your exGF is a BPDer, you were always in a lose/lose situation. You lost no matter what you did.

 

I also believe that, as she’s dated only men... that she doesn’t like the emotions I’m displaying.

No, if she is a BPDer, she almost certainly craves intimacy and strong emotions like nearly everyone else does. But, as noted above, she has such a fragile ego and weak self identity that she cannot tolerate intimacy for very long before starting to feel suffocated and controlled by you. She therefore will create a fight -- over absolutely nothing -- to push you away.

 

I keep thinking that she surely must feel some kind of guilt, but she never seemed to show any.

If she is a BPDer, it only seems that way. A BPDer is filled with so much shame and guilt (carried from early childhood) that the last thing she wants to find is one more thing to add to the long list of things she hates about herself. Her subconscious mind therefore works 24/7 protecting her fragile ego from seeing her shortcomings, mistakes, and failings.

 

It accomplishes this by projecting nearly all hurtful feelings and bad thoughts onto YOU. Because this projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, a BPDer will believe -- at a conscious level -- that these hurtful feelings and thoughts are really originating from you.

 

She played the victim.

If she has strong traits of BPD, that behavior is to be expected. BPDers typically have a stunted emotional development that is frozen at about age four -- with the result that they never had an opportunity to develop a strong sense of who they are. To the extent that a BPDer has a sense of self, it is the false self image of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." Because a BPDer keeps a death grip on that false self image, she will seek frequent "validation" of it being true.

 

During the courtship period, a BPDer will receive that validation from her view of you as the rescuer who has arrived to save her from unhappiness. Because you are "The Rescuer," the implication is that she must be "The Victim" you are so intent on rescuing.

 

Following the courtship period -- when her infatuation no longer holds her two fears at bay -- a BPDer will start perceiving of you as "The Perpetrator,"

i.e., the cause of her every misfortune. Regardless of whether you are "The Rescuer" (her perception when splitting you white) or "The Perpetrator" (her perception when splitting you black), you are satisfying her deep need for validation of being "The Victim."

 

She wouldn't let me see friends/family when I had free time; I always had to put her first, EVERY TIME.

A BPDer has a great fear of abandonment, which is one of the 9 defining traits for BPD. This fear typically is manifested in behavior as an irrational jealousy. BPDers mistakenly see abandonment threats where they don't even exist -- e.g., your looking at another woman for a second instead of a half-second.

 

My BPDer exW, for example, would fear abandonment whenever I was walking two steps in front of her on a narrow sidewalk (presumably because she misinterpreted it to mean I was ashamed to be seen close to her in public). Similarly, she would be jealous even of the time I spent with my family members -- and she would even resent my closeness to her own children. Due to her abandonment fear, she mistakenly feared that I was somehow choosing these other family members over HER.

 

I was told I wasn't trusted even though I never did anything like that (with the photos).

As noted above, this irrational jealousy is a red flag for her having a great fear of abandonment. Moreover, until a BPDer learns how to trust HERSELF, she will be incapable of trusting you for any extended period.

 

How can it be that I dislike this person and hate what she's done, but want nothing more than to speak to her? That is something I can't understand.

If she really is a BPDer, walking away likely will be extremely painful. The primary reason is that it feels like you are walking away from a sick young child who, despite her periodic tantrums, dearly loves you. BPDers generally are very easy to love because they exhibit the warmth, exuberance, and purity of expressions that otherwise are seen only in young children. Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Princess Diana and Marilyn Monroe -- both exhibited full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.

 

A second reason is that, whereas narcissists and sociopaths manipulate you with deliberate lies, a BPDer truly believes most of the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth. Because her feelings are so intense, she is absolutely convinced they MUST be correct. Hence, because you know she loves you and truly believes her allegations, you mistakenly assume that -- if you can only figure out what YOU are doing wrong -- you can restore the R/S to that wonderful bliss and passion you saw at the beginning.

 

A third reason -- especially for excessive caregivers like me -- is that a BPDer relationship gives us an opportunity to experience the intoxicating feeling of riding in on a white horse to save someone from unhappiness. Our desire to be needed far exceeds our desire to be loved. We caregivers therefore are strongly attracted to a child-like woman who can project her vulnerability across a crowded room.

 

A fourth reason is that, because a BPDer so completely mirrors the best aspects of your personality during the courtship period, you both mistakenly feel that you have found your "soulmate." Hence, even when you later question that intense feeling intellectually, you still have to fight against the intense feeling that she is somehow perfect for you -- and destined to be your mate.

 

Constant criticisms whenever she would come to my house. Insidious comments that were designed to make me feel stupid and dumb about whatever I might have been doing.

These repeated, deliberate efforts to hurt your feelings are a warning sign for narcissism. I therefore note that, if your exGF exhibits very strong BPD symptoms, there is a 32% chance she also exhibits strong symptoms of NPD (Narcissistic PD). See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

 

If I was to talk about this with a counselor, would it honestly help?

I agree with Cookies and Gillys and Preraph (posts 43-45) that it could be helpful to see a psychologist, for a visit or two, to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you were dealing with -- and guidance on how to heal from that experience. I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper third of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," verbal abuse, and temper tantrums.

 

Of course, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exGF's issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for breast cancer and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back and avoid running into the arms of another woman who is just like her.

 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells and raises questions, I would be glad to join The411 in discussing them with you. Take care, C-List.

[clist8511]

stockyoldfrump - I must say, you’re right. The times that I have made myself dinner at a certain time each day, or started keeping track of a programme, it’s almost as if the mind locks on to something new. Change DOES disguise loss, yes. You’re right. Thank you for such a detailed and well-written out reply. I must have read it about 50 times since you posted. Thank you.

[clist8511]

The411 - You know… that PTSD thing… in the hours and days after finding all of this out, I felt like extremely vulnerable, scared, like a child, almost. A lost child, or something. I don’t really know how to best describe it. I thought it may have been PTSD, but I felt stupid for even thinking like that - after all, it’s just a break up, I haven’t been at war - but I think, yes. It’s been a traumatic experience and it came to a head so horribly, I think it IS that.

 

I will try my utmost to stay strong. I’ve written in a journal today and something I wrote was “as long as I stay in the safety of NC, I can’t get hurt any further”. I’m looking at NC as a sort of bubble, comfort blanket. While I’m here, NOTHING from her can hurt me further.

[clist8511]

Downtown - Hi. I really appreciate the reply. I dated someone before her who was like this, sadly. I had a thread on here under some other name, and the more I wrote about her, the more it became obvious who she was.

 

I didn’t want to even THINK about the possibility that this person was the same (I think she is worse than the last), and it’s saddening to think that this is the case.

 

Of course, none of us can diagnose anyone, but it’s fairly obvious that yeah… this is what’s going on.

 

The black and white thing… I mean, this wouldn’t have been the only time she turned on me. I even used to say to her during arguments/break ups, “It’s like I’m talking to someone else” - and it was. No amount of crying, explaining how much pain I was being caused, nothing. She’d maintain a hard, cold tone with me until the next day or the next time she decided she wanted to shower me with love. Each time she did it, it made me feel sick to my stomach. I suffered numerous panic attacks and my entire life was messed up, as well as my mental health.

 

The breakup/make up cycle… What would happen is that we’d get on SO well for maybe a week…two weeks. It would be amazing. I’d always feel that wow, finally, we’re OK - and then she’d switch.. her whole behaviour would just change. Or it would be that she’d gone home from staying at my house, and her whole mood would just change - and that’s when the arguments would start, the breaking up, etc. I always remained confused as to what happened, why has this happened again? I could never come up with an answer. What you mentioned there about not being able to handle intimacy - sounds like that. It could never go well for more than a couple of weeks. She’d break up with me, push me away. Then pull me back in after a week or so.

 

She didn’t want me to do anything. Work out, attend college, see family, I even went to a football game on my own once, and she spent the entire thing messaging me with threats of suicide (I can’t even remember what that was about) - so my evening was ruined, despite it being something I’d booked weeks before.

 

She did sometimes appear quite childish, yes. She’d put on a child-like voice, at times. It was a ‘thing’. I don’t know if that’s relevant.

 

She does appear to exhibit these things persistently. A week couldn’t really go by without any of these things occurring. She was the victim in everything. I remember discussing something quite personal with her and it became something SHE was upset about, and had told one of her friends and presented it to be something SHE was going through; that was highly irritating as it was nothing to do with her, and it would have been a massive life change for ME.

 

She went through a period of changing her goals rapidly, too. She was living in one place, then wanted to move, then wanted to stay again, then wanted to change jobs, then move etc - I found that quite a strange time, to be honest. It was strange because there wasn't really a reason for her to be changing jobs/home, and it was often a minor thing that would cause this big upheaval. I remember her even staying in a hotel room for a few weeks because she couldn't decide what she was doing. Odd.

 

She eats a lot, too. Like, she'd sometimes call me and say "I've just eaten two burgers, and two cakes and I feel so sick" - I always found this odd. It was always random. As in, that wasn't her usual eating pattern. She often said she couldn't control the urges to eat. I don't know if that's relevant, either.

 

All of those 18 warning signs seem related to her. Nothing I did was appreciated. I remember donating money to a friend of hers who died charity, once. I wasn't even working and didn't have any money to spare, but did it because it was her friend. You know, I don't remember being thanked, or anything. I remember being argued with about not 'being there' when the friend had died (I had spent two days with her, actually). I could go on.

 

 

I have managed to secure an appointment with a psychotherapist tomorrow morning, and I have an appointment with someone from a domestic abuse charity in a week - I look forward to both of these things as I really want to move on from this and avoid these situations in the future. They're so painful.

 

I've had an urge to contact her today, but I haven't. I'm happy I haven't. More than anything I just want to be over this.

 

I would like to discuss it more, if that's OK?

Edited August 6, 2017 by clist8511

[clist8511]

I did two things earlier that I'm not really proud of.

 

I saved her number into my phone, and sat and watched her going off and on WhatsApp for about an hour - this drove me mad. I was convinced that she and this person were talking to each other, despite the fact that her phone is full of contacts and she could have simply been talking to her mum or dad. I had to delete the number and really don't want to do that again. I felt horrible.

 

I looked at her Instagram. It's 'private' so you can't see anything, but I noticed that she's uploaded another picture due to the picture count going up by one. I became convinced that it's a picture of the pair of them holding hands or something... even though I have no evidence for that. It could have been a picture of anything. I can't be doing that again. Just that hour or two of feeling crap reminded me that the parts of this I can control, I will. I don't have to feel like that.

 

I keep checking my email account for a message from her, but nothing. Because we've done the breakup/make up thing I'm just subconsciously expecting it, despite that fact that I don't want to be with her. Ugh. I hate all this.

[Downtown]

Or it would be that she’d gone home from staying at my house, and her whole mood would just change - and that’s when the arguments would start, the breaking up, etc. I always remained confused as to what happened, why has this happened again? ...What you mentioned there about not being able to handle intimacy - sounds like that.

Yes, because a BPDer cannot tolerate intimacy for very long, she typically will start the very WORST fights immediately after (if not during) the very BEST of times. This is why it is common for a BPDer to push you away -- by starting a fight over nothing -- the morning after a very intimate evening, at the end of a great weekend, or in the middle of an expensive out-of-town vacation.

 

She did sometimes appear quite childish, yes. She’d put on a child-like voice, at times. It was a ‘thing’. I don’t know if that’s relevant.

BPDers often exhibit childish behavior because they are fully reliant on the ego defenses used by young children -- e.g., projection, denial, temper tantrums, black-white thinking, and magical thinking. Because most BPDers were abused/abandoned in childhood, it also is common for some of them to try to recreate the childhood-they-wished-they-had by collecting stuffed animals or dolls.

 

She spent the entire thing messaging me with threats of suicide.

"Recurring suicidal behaviors or threats" is another one of the 9 defining symptoms for BPD. If you're interested, C-List, you will find the complete list at 9 BPD Symptoms at NIMH.

 

She'd sometimes call me and say "I've just eaten two burgers, and two cakes and I feel so sick" ...She often said she couldn't control the urges to eat. I don't know if that's relevant.

Another one of the 9 BPD symptoms is "Impulsive and often dangerous behaviors, such as spending sprees, unsafe sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, and binge eating." See the symptoms list cited above.

 

I have managed to secure an appointment with a psychotherapist tomorrow morning, and I have an appointment with someone from a domestic abuse charity in a week.

Smart decision, C-List.

 

I would like to discuss it more, if that's OK?

Yes, of course.

[clist8511]

I've woken up late for an appointment, and instead of thinking about the appointment I've just begun obsessively thinking about contacting her. I don't even know what I'd say, probably just some rubbish or ask more pointless questions that'd give me hurtful answers.

 

I just can't believe this is happening. And I have to sit here and sift through all of this, while she swans off and doesn't feel a thing. That's probably why I want to contact her... to make her realise that this is painful and that she's caused me pain.

 

I feel like I can't do this. I feel like this won't ever end. I feel like this has given me more baggage to deal with on top of everything else. It's all too much. The one person I really trusted not to mess me about or hurt me, has.

[Downtown]

I have to sit here and sift through all of this, while she swans off and doesn't feel a thing.

If she is a BPDer as you suspect, C-List, it only seems like she "doesn't feel a thing." As I noted earlier, a BPDer is filled with so much shame and self-loathing that the last thing she wants to find is one more thing to add to the long list of things she hates about herself. Her subconscious mind therefore works 24/7 protecting her fragile ego from seeing her own mistakes and failings. Having strong BPD symptoms is such a painful condition that I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

[clist8511]

If she is a BPDer as you suspect, C-List, it only seems like she "doesn't feel a thing." As I noted earlier, a BPDer is filled with so much shame and self-loathing that the last thing she wants to find is one more thing to add to the long list of things she hates about herself. Her subconscious mind therefore works 24/7 protecting her fragile ego from seeing her own mistakes and failings. Having strong BPD symptoms is such a painful condition that I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

 

Ugh. Indeed, though. My last partner wanted everyone to believe that she was flawless; even though I knew all of her flaws and insecurities. It was draining to watch.

 

With this woman, I just wish she'd have showed more emotion. It's really frustrating.