A MM's story - really resonated with me

[Serendipity55]

The thread "An MM's story" is now closed so I can't post on there but crushedandlost and all the other sympathetic contributors on that thread really resonated with me.

 

I'm an xOW who is dangerously close to losing her control and falling back into the A. The reason crushedandlost resonated is because you sound like my xMM.

 

He says he stays because his W has given what he always wanted, a family, and he stays because he loves his children, more than his W and more than me.

 

I have stayed away from him for a while now but we bumped into each other. He says all the things you do. He loves me but he's not sure what the future looks like. He wants to stay in his M because he doesn't want to share his children. If he leaves he has to settle for joint custody. I get that, children are the priority.

 

I am very sad about it all. I am sure all OW's are. I hate feeling this miserable but in NC I wasn't feeling much better.

 

It's so difficult to extricate once you're in and I admire both you and your xOW for staying strong.

 

Thank you for sharing your story, it was so helpful to hear from an MM's pov.

[DKT3]

It's difficult because you aren't really accepting what he is saying.

 

My kids are my life, my wife was everything I wanted in a woman. Guess what? I divorced her because I no longer wanted to be married to her, this without being"in love" with someone else.

 

What this guy is saying is I want to be.married to this woman but I also want to have something with you. What you hear is I'm trapped in the Marriage and want to be with you

[Darren Steez]

I can't imagine the power and the ego boost to be able to put somebody's life on hold while you just go about your life enjoying a family, friends etc.

 

Of all the precious amount of life force you have that ebb away everyday you choose to wait for this man, meanwhile your own personal journey to able to go through in life and do what you want to do is put on hold.

 

Mutants/Superheroes have nothing on this guy

[elaine567]

What this guy is saying is I want to be.married to this woman but I also want to have something with you. What you hear is I'm trapped in the Marriage and want to be with you

 

Agreed.

Too many I feel fill in the dots with entirely the wrong dots and end up lost and hurt when it doesn't pan out the way they expected it to.

 

It is very very easy to say "I love you", but it can be very, very difficult to leave a marriage, especially when he doesn't actually want to.

 

Too many OWs get stuck in the loop of he said "I love you", when it is very very obvious to anyone looking in, that he will NOT leave as that is NOT something he wants to do.

The incentive to leave is just not there.

 

Even with the hell of Dday and the prospect of living with a very angry and upset wife for years, the incentive is often STILL not there. That must say something surely? But no it just doesn't seem to seep through to many OWs, they stick in there, often believing some rot about "saving" him,,,,

 

It is very very easy to leave a marriage if you are determined to do so, none of those vacillating, "confused" and "lost" MM actually want to do so, that is the bottom line.

 

Yes, we can all plug into crushedandlost's "love" story but truth is, he started to pull away from having any sort of a real relationship, as he knew he was NEVER going to leave anyway. He was scared of getting an STD from her and getting caught - true love...um?

She was ohing and ahing over leaving her bf, so this was hardly "love" on her part either.

Now the OW made the sensible decision to leave, he has lost his toy and his support system and faces a bleak future ahead in his sexless marriage, that is really why he is so upset.

[Eight]

What this guy is saying is I want to be.married to this woman but I also want to have something with you. What you hear is I'm trapped in the Marriage and want to be with you

 

He's also saying "I love myself most of all; more than my wife, my kids or you."

[LivingWaterPlease]

It's difficult because you aren't really accepting what he is saying.

 

My kids are my life, my wife was everything I wanted in a woman. Guess what? I divorced her because I no longer wanted to be married to her, this without being"in love" with someone else.

 

What this guy is saying is I want to be.married to this woman but I also want to have something with you. What you hear is I'm trapped in the Marriage and want to be with you

 

Didn't you remarry your wife, DKT3?

[Serendipity55]

Sadly I know all of this. In my rational mind.

 

He's always been honest. He began from the outset saying he was 'happy in his marriage'. Now he's gone to 'we wouldn't be together if we didn't have kids'. One is 5 days old.

 

He's said to me he doesn't know whether he'll be able to stick it out. If it gets worse he might leave if it's best for his kids. I know what he's saying is I have no intention of leaving, my marriage isn't great but it's not awful either.

 

This is a pattern. Back in 2012 he had a fling with someone else, he wasn't married then. He decided to have a break from his then GF (now W) but after some couple counselling they got back together and bought a house.

 

Now, he's saying that him and W wouldn't be together if they didn't have kids because he's a different man to one who first fell in love with her. The present day man has fallen in love with me. They only got married 1 year ago.

 

 

Then he also says he loves us both equally. I have told him that simply can't be true. You can't love two people the same way and same amount. He maintains he can.

 

He says all he ever wanted was a family. His W has given that to him, so he's made his bed and has to lie in it now. I said no, you want to lie in it. Big difference.

 

He said that he can't bear idea of sharing his children. So he can't leave and then deal with sharing them. He said his W and kids come as a package.

 

I know from what he's saying it's clear who he values more. His W.

 

But when he tells me how his love for me is growing and how he wants to confide in me more not his W and how he might leave if things get worse...it gives me some sort of hope and I feel somewhat in limbo.

 

Why would I want a man who can cheat so easily? I know. I should not. I don't want to want him. I want to be disgusted at him and myself. I know I should be.

[carhill]

It's unclear to me what the topic is...

 

Are you trying to gain understanding of a past affair to move forward in your life?

 

Are you trying to read the mind of your former affair partner to decide whether further investment in this ended affair is worth your time and energy?

 

I can comment on the 'equal love' part. Men are excellent compartmentalizers, generally, so he can indeed love his family and spouse when that box is open for viewing and love you when that box is open for viewing. We learn that young in life when we are tasked to be both loving and brutal and even heartless to get through our roles in life. We cope by forming compartments in our psychology and emotions and learn how to separate those compartments. Some men are better at this than others. Generally, the greater the swing of roles in their everyday lives, the greater their skill, or need for skill, in compartmentalizing.

 

You may not believe xMM loves you the same as his family, or even more than his family. Sure, he may not. He may. None of us are mind-readers. IMO, if you can't reconcile the real and accept it, there's a great issue to work on that can help in life far beyond affairs.

 

Long ago, long before the internet, I was stuck in a similar conundrum and pondered the variables, for years. Now I'm an old guy and will never get those years back. Were they worth it? IDK. I'm more thinking now that they were a total waste of time, not the experiences themselves, but all the pondering and analyzing. Up to you. Good luck!

[elaine567]

I know from what he's saying it's clear who he values more. His W.

 

But when he tells me how his love for me is growing and how he wants to confide in me more not his W and how he might leave if things get worse...it gives me some sort of hope and I feel somewhat in limbo.

 

Of course you do and that is his intention.

That is the hook and it is all just words and words are so easy to say.

He wants to keep you sweet and so he gives you just enough to stop you walking out that door. He knows how to engender hope in you without actually doing or promising anything. That word "might" is all that you actually need to hear.

[Serendipity55]

Carhill - thank you.

 

I think I'm asking all of the questions you posed.

 

I find what he says to be contradictory so therefore finding it hard to accept and process. The most obvious example of this being "we'd not be together if we didn't have kids"..."I still am attracted to her and feel a relationship with her is part of the package of 'family'".

 

He does compartmentalise. He's told me that. More recently, he's asked me if I could handle more of a physical presence in his 'real' life but understands it is difficult for me as it'll mean contact with his W. Obviously that would be a terrible idea but his compartments seems to be blurring. I don't know why.

 

He said to me recently he's been very selfish falling in love with me and he wants to get out of it but he can't and he feels he can't live without me.

 

He's pretty honest and straightforward so I don't think it's all lies to manipulate.

 

I take your point Carhill - I'm doing it again. Over-analysing and second-guessing. I want answers and I find it hard to cope without them. It is a problem in me clearly but how to fix it I don't know.

[BreakingWave]

 

 

He does compartmentalise. He's told me that. More recently, he's asked me if I could handle more of a physical presence in his 'real' life but understands it is difficult for me as it'll mean contact with his W. Obviously that would be a terrible idea but his compartments seems to be blurring. I don't know why.

 

He said to me recently he's been very selfish falling in love with me and he wants to get out of it but he can't and he feels he can't live without me.

 

He's pretty honest and straightforward so I don't think it's all lies to manipulate.

 

 

Serendipity,

 

Your MM sounds so much like my MW. We were friends for a while before anything happened so I'd already met her family. But when our A took off she invited me around ALL THE TIME, to the point that I formed fairly close friendships with her adult kids and even went on a vacation with her and her daughters. She often told me she was having trouble keeping up with "boxes" or compartments and that all the lines were blurred. I think that's almost the worst part of the problem. She told me I was "like family" and she couldn't imagine life without me. But when push comes to shove, I'm always the one she doesn't mind icing out for weeks on end. I'm very different than family and eventually I had to recognize that.

[Serendipity55]

Elaine - yes, he has said 'i know you don't want to wait and see and why should you when you want more...I am more in love with you now than ever and if my feelings grow more and more and it affects my M to the point of no return it means it affects the kids, wrecks things with my W which means I lose my kids or wrecks things with both you and my W...whatever happens things haven't been easier in life.'

 

I'm not sure what this even means if I'm honest other than it seems to all revolve around him, not really me, his W or his kids (who he claims are all he wants and needs in this life).

[Serendipity55]

I should add all of this from him has come the day after his son was born and when we I had asked him for space (we'd had few months of space, him messaging me but I wasn't responding). So he's in a heightened emotional space and he is probably scared of losing me again.

[Darren Steez]

 

He said to me recently he's been very selfish falling in love with me and he wants to get out of it but he can't and he feels he can't live without me.

 

He's pretty honest and straightforward so I don't think it's all lies to manipulate.

 

 

Quite a jedi mind trick he's pulling.

 

So he's honest with you and his wife? I'm assuming the wife knows everything about the affairs, or him talking to you know or how he feels about loving two women. And again he's cheating, he loves you but happily goes home to his wife, he tells her he loves her but trots off to you.

 

He loves you enough to keep you on the hook, not move forward with your life, play you but again most importantly he loves everyone to keep cheating time and again.

 

You say he's "honest" but does he have integrity. Even if he left his wife for you what is the likelihood since they have kids he'd once in a while fool around with her?

 

Dear lord lady, just go and find happiness instead of wallowing in this drama and wasting time on a man that is clearly a cheater.

Edited July 29, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[elaine567]

Women love to hear the L word and MM are very good at saying it. It is a great way of keeping a woman on board.

He may love you, but not in the "Marry me, have my kids, and die in my arms" kind of a way. ie the way you see it.

 

No, it is in a "This feels good, you boost my ego and you make me feel like da man." kind of a way, which isn't really the same.

 

If he felt like you do, then he would not hesitate, he would arrange to leave his wife and set up joint custody for his kids.

As it is he wants her as his wife, he doesn't need another one, and he wants you as his OW, waiting in the wings for as long as he can get away with it.

[Serendipity55]

Even though he says his kids are his life and to have joint custody would be like giving up half of himself and he would be miserable? If someone derives all they need from their kids then couldn't that be a valid reason to stay? Especially if he doesn't love me any more than his W.

 

He does also love his W too. He's told me that. I love you and I love her.

[carhill]

OP, do you and the BS have the ability to cross-check or is his past affair with you still dark and/or without means of independent contact?

 

I ask because some men, both in the past, and now, have open and conspicuous relations. IME, more so in the past before the lawyers got hold of the divorce system but some still do. If so, ostensible honesty, or dishonesty, can be easily and independently verified.

 

If he's dark, and most MW's I've been around in life ran dark affairs (can't speak to MM's), then little to nothing is verifiable and hence subject to belief and trust. Those are personal. We all believe and trust in our own way.

 

Here's a test, one I tried in the past. Do you know a MM that you don't desire nor love nor are attached to? If you do, when he's sharing his stuff, do you believe him or are skeptical? That isn't a test of him rather one of your own psyche and methods of attachment.

 

This kind of stuff reminds me of a dear female friend, also a MW (not with me) it turned out, who drank herself to an early demise. She was smart, well-liked and successful but just couldn't reconcile the bottle. I'm confident that she didn't want to drink herself to death, having a wonderful husband and son and a lot to live for. Yet, there was stuff in there. Like this MM, she compartmentalized and, yeah people, including myself, believed her. The question I asked myself after her death was would I have believed her and trusted her if I hadn't loved her. Did that love cloud the reality? Did that attachment impute trust where skepticism would have been healthier? IDK.

 

What I've noticed growing out of the reproductive stage of life is that I can love people without wanting 'more'. Enjoy the now without expectations of any future. Death and divorce taught me a lot about that. Before, the 'more' was nothing more than mating and reproduction drives calling. I've noticed the same thing with women my age. They're fine with being single and unattached. I didn't quite get that, being too young, when my mom was widowed and men came around and she stated she had had her man and she was done with men and, yeah, she was, living alone until dead. It didn't make sense then but does now.

 

I trust and have every confidence that you'll find your own path. Remember, you control your own choices completely. No one can take that from you. It's up to you.

[elaine567]

So you sacrifice yourself, just so that he can have it all, sounds like a great plan.

[somanymistakes]

I don't think the "if he loved you he would leave immediately" thing is necessarily true. We can easily find famous cases where the affair dragged on a while because of outside pressure before finally the loving couple got together.

 

But the key is, does he really want to be with you in the way that you want him to?

 

It seems like he definitely wants to have you as a girlfriend. He enjoys your company and your affections. Is that love? People's answers are going to vary. I don't think it's useful to get into an argument over whether it is or isn't, because in the end it doesn't make much difference.

 

It seems like what he's telling you is that, affection or no affection, he doesn't want to leave his wife. He doesn't want to leave his kids. He doesn't want to give up any proportion of their time, or share them with anybody, no matter what. It's not that he's afraid to hurt her or them by leaving, he straightforward doesn't want to leave them or share them.

 

If that's the case, then it seems like the best you could ever hope for would be to be the acknowledged mistress, if his wife was okay with him having one.

 

But would that be enough for you? THAT is the decision that matters, in my opinion. Not "does he love you" but "are you okay with this life"?

 

It does seem selfish if he thinks it's okay for HIS affection to be shared (with both his wife and you) but he won't allow THEIR affection to be shared (objecting strongly to the idea of his wife someday finding someone else, and the kids being away some of the time).

[carhill]

That's a good point. OP, do you feel like you're sacrificing yourself at the altar of a particular human? Does it feel that way to you? Do you have a history of similar relations, not necessarily with MM but in general, sacrificing your own needs and desires or subjugating them to others?

 

My last tidbit comes from a long-time MW, one I've termed a 'pro'. Being successful at this takes skill and the ability to believe that 'all is fair in love and war' and operate on that premise where the goal supersedes all other parameters; where pragmatism rules.

 

My instinct is, if you're here pondering this and analyzing it, you're likely not a pro. That may not be an issue if the guy is a good match but if he's a pro he'll eat you for lunch. I got eaten by the one I got that great advice from enough to beat the lesson into my thick skull. Some people aren't cut out for the affair and love war games. Some are. You decide.

[Serendipity55]

I think I'm definitely not a 'pro'.

 

He might leave, if things get dire, but he probably won't - he will likely just go through the motions so he can be with his sons.

 

He's said he wants to continue until I meet someone but then says doesn't want me to meet anyone as it'll be the end of us. So there's no "I can't bear to see you with someone else". I'm sure if/when it happens he'll chase hard but it'll be more a case of want what can't have.

 

What also hurts is fact he says "my wife and I wouldn't be together if we didn't have the kids" and then says "I love you both the same"...but he has no ties to me, so why does he want me. If he loves me the same as his but he wouldn't be with her now if he didn't have children, then he doesn't really love either.

 

His thinking is always so contradictory.

 

I know the bottom line is he's not going anywhere anytime soon. Would I want him really...he's lied and he's cheated. His wife has just given birth and he's telling me he's consumed by thoughts of me when he knows he should be cocooned in his family.

 

I'm just feeling a loss of control. I don't know why. It's not like anything has really changed for me. I guess it's fact he is giving me hope that this rough patch will turn into a permanent thing and he'll leave. I think it's to keep me in his life because he knows I am ready to walk.

 

I'm sorry if this is a ramble. I know the choices are be a mistress or walk.

[elaine567]

...if he's a pro he'll eat you for lunch.

I think I'm definitely not a 'pro'. .

 

No, but he is, and he IS eating you for lunch here...

[stillafool]

 

 

Now he's gone to 'we wouldn't be together if we didn't have kids'. One is 5 days old.

 

 

They only got married 1 year ago.

Well he was already NOT MARRIED with kids so why now is it so important to be married with kids? He's so full of it. If he didn't want this woman he didn't have to marry her because he already had kids and his freedom. How many kids does he have?

[BaileyB]

He doesn't truly love his wife. If he did, he wouldn't have cheated on her twice and he wouldn't be telling you that he loves you. Especially, when she has a new baby at home - that's disgusting! Sorry.

 

The only person this guy loves is himself. He puts self interest above virtually all else - even his kids, because if he really loved his kids he would honor their mother (even if it meant divorce) and be a leader of the family.

 

It just makes me sad to see that you are confused and conflicted about a man who would use you and pass you by in a heartbeat, assuming that it was in his best interest to do so. Why would you ever want him - so he could do to you what he has done to his wife... no thank you! You deserve so much more than what he is offering...

Edited July 29, 2017 by BaileyB

[Jersey born raised]

You could be a friend of his marriage and push him to find out why he cannot talk with his wife like he does you.