A MM's story - really resonated with me

[Birdies]

I was a MW involved with a MM. I don't buy the argument that men do this just to get laid and it's all a ploy. I think more often than not they've lost emotional intimacy with their wife due to all the hassles and stressors of life, and they do fall in love with the OW.

 

But that love isn't enough to upend the apple cart. It just isn't. I was madly in love with my MM but I honestly never thought about leaving my husband for him - I just couldn't fathom wreaking that kind of devastation in our lives - and we don't even have kids. (Dumb I know because obviously the affair is the real devastation, but when you think you're getting away with it, it's hard to see the damage being done.)

 

It's just not that complicated. He loves you, but not enough to totally upend his whole life and hurt his family. But he loves you enough to want you around, because you fill in the gaps he's missing in his "real life" and makes it easier to endure the hard parts.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Birdies

[anika99]

He doesn't truly love his wife. If he did, he wouldn't have cheated on her twice and he wouldn't be telling you that he loves you. Especially, when she has a new baby at home - that's disgusting! Sorry.

 

The only person this guy loves is himself. He puts self interest above virtually all else - even his kids, because if he really loved his kids he would honor their mother (even if it meant divorce) and be a leader of the family.

 

It just makes me sad to see that you are confused and conflicted about a man who would use you and pass you by in a heartbeat, assuming that it was in his best interest to do so. Why would you ever want him - so he could do to you what he has done to his wife... no thank you! You deserve so much more than what he is offering...

 

The above is exactly what I said on the OPs other thread. This man is wildly madly in love.......with himself. His wife, his children, and his OW are all objects to him. Objects that he possesses and that he thinks exists solely for his enjoyment.

 

OP one day, hopefully sooner than later, this affair will really be over and only after its over and you have had at a couple of years of total no contact will you be able to look at this objectively and see this man for the truly selfish user he is.

 

You say he tells you he would rather confide in you than his wife? Well of course! His wife just went through 9 months of pregnancy while dealing with another small toddler. Now she's had a baby just a few days ago and she can't go 5 minutes without a kid demanding her time and attention. She doesn't have the time or energy to listen to your MM whine about himself.

 

I think the major difference between the OW and the wife in many cases is that the OW doesn't place expectation or demands on the MM. The wife expects her husband to be her partner in everything. There was a thread a while back where an OW said the MMs wife was horrible because she was just using her husband as a father to their children, a contributor to their finances and a companion to herself. I was like huh? those don't sound like unreasonable expectations of a spouse to me.

 

But things get twisted in an affair because the OW exists solely to bring pleasure to the MM. In the few hours they spend together here and there, and in the time spent together on the phone, the OW gives her MM her undivided time and attention. Oh she might be interrupted by her own children, or by work, but her responsibilities and problems are not his problems. She doesn't expect him to take care of her children or to do chores around her house while she works or breast feeds the baby, or tries to grab a nap. So the MM gets all this attention from the OW and then he goes home and his tired harried wife is like "it's about time. Where were you? You were supposed to cut the grass today and take out the garbage. Now I need you to watch these kids so I can clean the bathroom." And the MM, having just spent time having leisurely conversation and sex with his OW is like "sheesh! What a bit@$. What's her problem?" The MMs ego has become further inflated by the affair and he thinks his wife's perfectly normal expectations are unreasonable and unfair. It twisted.

 

But he doesn't leave because somewhere deep down in his selfish little heart he subconsciously knows that he is being selfish and unfair. He knows the dynamics of an affair are far different than a fulltime marriage. He knows that if he were to leave his marriage to go be with the OW fulltime that then his OW would also have expectations of him to be a responsible, helpful, supportive spouse and parent.

 

OP your MM is telling you that he doesn't want to leave his marriage AND he doesn't want you to meet anyone else. He wants his wife, his kids and his OW. How selfish is that? He gets it all while everyone else is being ripped off. He expects you to just be on call for when he wants you. If he loved you than why does he think you deserve such a crappy deal? Why doesn't he think you deserve to have what he has? His feelings for people are all selfish and self serving. He can make big declarations of love but he sacrafices nothing for anyone. He says ohe loves his wife but he cheats and lies, he says he loves his kids but he takes risks with their security and happiness so he can have his fun on the side, he says he loves you but he expects you to stay on the sidelines in the role of hidden OW. He is not a good man and if his wife ever kicks him out and you get him fulltime I'm pretty sure you will be disappointed with your prize.

[DKT3]

I was a MW involved with a MM. I don't buy the argument that men do this just to get laid and it's all a ploy. I think more often than not they've lost emotional intimacy with their wife due to all the hassles and stressors of life, and they do fall in love with the OW.

 

But that love isn't enough to upend the apple cart. It just isn't. I was madly in love with my MM but I honestly never thought about leaving my husband for him - I just couldn't fathom wreaking that kind of devastation in our lives - and we don't even have kids. (Dumb I know because obviously the affair is the real devastation, but when you think you're getting away with it, it's hard to see the damage being done.)

 

It's just not that complicated. He loves you, but not enough to totally upend his whole life and hurt his family. But he loves you enough to want you around, because you fill in the gaps he's missing in his "real life" and makes it easier to endure the hard parts.

 

From your side of things I understand you wanting to believe that. However, men are different than woman. I see this time and time again where woman want to place men within the same parameters. If he is doing this with me, than like me he must be lacking something. Truth is, men are far more likely to engage in an affair simply for extra or different. Many if not most time that "different" thing has absolutely no impact on how he views and/or relates to his wife.

 

Point is some unhappily married man walks away everyday. In these situations more often than not it's BS. In this situation, it's clearly BS even OP can see it, but she allows emotions to cloud her judgement.

[freengreen]

When someone is new NC, its reasonable to sympathise... because they are trying to be fair with themselves and others. They are hurting immensely and confused.

 

But one needs to move forward from NC...its really hard for me to see two things here on LS: 1. People holding onto hope for ages, when day after day goes down the drain. I feel sad seeing posts like this.

2. People who are in NC but the motive is actually to get back.No remorse.

 

Love and respect go hand in hand. You got love and no respect for it or others around it... its not real love, its real selfish.

 

Sorry, I did not want to be so crude. But the gist in the post is what made me take the step out of everything. I feel sad that I choose an affair to dispense love, it was what I felt truly , but it was a wrong space, it will always be my truth that will hurt but it is what it is.

 

Crushedandlost was in pain , I and everyone could see that BUT he only appreciated answers he wanted to hear. Perspective wasnt welcomed. LS is all about perspective, if you dont want to hear what other people ( once in exactly your space) have to say and just want to reinforce what he thought was righf... whats the point?

Edited July 29, 2017 by freengreen

[wmacbride]

Sadly I know all of this. In my rational mind.

 

He's always been honest. He began from the outset saying he was 'happy in his marriage'. Now he's gone to 'we wouldn't be together if we didn't have kids'. One is 5 days old.

 

He's said to me he doesn't know whether he'll be able to stick it out. If it gets worse he might leave if it's best for his kids. I know what he's saying is I have no intention of leaving, my marriage isn't great but it's not awful either.

 

This is a pattern. Back in 2012 he had a fling with someone else, he wasn't married then. He decided to have a break from his then GF (now W) but after some couple counselling they got back together and bought a house.

 

Now, he's saying that him and W wouldn't be together if they didn't have kids because he's a different man to one who first fell in love with her. The present day man has fallen in love with me. They only got married 1 year ago.

 

 

Then he also says he loves us both equally. I have told him that simply can't be true. You can't love two people the same way and same amount. He maintains he can.

 

He says all he ever wanted was a family. His W has given that to him, so he's made his bed and has to lie in it now. I said no, you want to lie in it. Big difference.

 

He said that he can't bear idea of sharing his children. So he can't leave and then deal with sharing them. He said his W and kids come as a package.

 

I know from what he's saying it's clear who he values more. His W.

 

But when he tells me how his love for me is growing and how he wants to confide in me more not his W and how he might leave if things get worse...it gives me some sort of hope and I feel somewhat in limbo.

 

Why would I want a man who can cheat so easily? I know. I should not. I don't want to want him. I want to be disgusted at him and myself. I know I should be.

 

How on earth cna this guy as you to stay with him while his wife is pregnant and he has a baby?

 

This makes me so ticked off?

 

He "loves" his kids?

yeah riiiigghhhhhhtttt.....

 

He loves them so much he would risk one of them so he can cheat with you. Pffftttt... he's full of crap.

 

Assume his wife found out about the A, and the emotional stress harmed her and/or the baby?

 

Why is he doing this to you, his wife and kids? he needs to get his own head straight before he goes and messes up anyone elses life.

[wmacbride]

Even though he says his kids are his life and to have joint custody would be like giving up half of himself and he would be miserable? If someone derives all they need from their kids then couldn't that be a valid reason to stay? Especially if he doesn't love me any more than his W.

 

He does also love his W too. He's told me that. I love you and I love her.

 

If he loves his kids, he wouldn't be doing something that will put their mother at risk, as when he hurts her, he hurts them.

[Serendipity55]

somanymistakes - you helped me before, enormously, with one of your posts. You said to me, when pondering why WSs risk it all for an A and you said "I don't think they really think about how much they're risking with their spouses and children. "I like vanilla, but why shouldn't I have chocolate too? It's not going to make me love vanilla any less."

 

I repeated your ice-cream analogy to him. He said "using your ice-cream analogy I always had vanilla and then one day chocolate got thrown in and since then I couldn't imagine not having chocolate and vanilla".

 

So I know he wants us both. But then he says "well I wouldn't be with her if we didn't have the kids, we're very different people now". Just so confused. He just seems confused to me. His only certainty is he wants to stay so he doesn't have to share his kids, the rest is always so contradictory.

[elaine567]

So I know he wants us both. But then he says "well I wouldn't be with her if we didn't have the kids, we're very different people now". Just so confused. He just seems confused to me. His only certainty is he wants to stay so he doesn't have to share his kids, the rest is always so contradictory.

 

He's not confused at all.

He just told you what he wants.

He wants to stay with his wife

He HAS kids, so it is a moot point that he wouldn't be with her if it wasn't for the kids.

YOU do not want to hear that he wants to stay with her, so you are making up the "confused" excuse for why he is not with you.

[Serendipity55]

Yes, I know he does. Even if he loves me the same - it's irrelevant. His actions aren't confused. He's where he wants to be. He'll probably stay there. He tells me he's a bad husband. I can't disagree.

[BaileyB]

No, you can't disagree.

He is a bad husband to her. And, he would be a bad husband to you.

You need to start looking for someone who would make a good husband, for you. And a good father, for your child.

Please, don't waste another day on this man - he is truly not worth your time or attention.

Best wishes.

Edited July 29, 2017 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

"One day, chocolate got thrown in..." like it was just a happy accident.

 

OMG - this just makes me laugh. This guy is something else...

 

I can't imagine telling my husband "I like vanilla, but why shouldn't I have chocolate too. I can't imagine not having both - chocolate and vanilla." That is such an entitled and arrogant statement to make - it's actually unbelievable to me that someone could feel that way.

[DKT3]

Yes, I know he does. Even if he loves me the same - it's irrelevant. His actions aren't confused. He's where he wants to be. He'll probably stay there. He tells me he's a bad husband. I can't disagree.

 

Well, I guessing if you got real honest with yourself, you know his actions are not at all confusing. The confusion comes because you desire his words above his actions. He isn't confused or confusing you are doing that all to yourself.

[Grammie]

Serendipity,

 

You seem to see him as this poor conflicted guy. But remember, he is the guy who has been cheating on the woman he CHOSE to marry a year ago, a woman he already had a baby with, he chose to have sex with to get her pregnant again. And while she has been growing a baby inside her, having her body change, her emotions all over the place, he has been playing on the side with you. He lets her take care of his child (the one in utero and the one already born), take care of the house, etc while he goes off and texts you or has sex with you.

 

She just pushed a human out of her body and he is telling you how he loves you, all the while leaving her to take care of a newborn AND a toddler. This guy doesn't love his kids above all else - cause if he did, he wouldn't have TIME FOR YOU. He would be too busy helping with the house chores, he would be TAKING CARE OF HIS CHILDREN. But, hes not doing that...he's off telling you how much he "loves you". And i would bet a paycheck at night, when he finally does go home after remembering his WIFE just gave birth to a child, he looks at her while she is nursing/feeding their child and tells her how much he loves her - she has given him 2 children and he married her before the 2nd child was even created. He didn't have to get married - there are no laws or rules that say he had to marry her. He made a CHOICE to marry her and to get her pregnant again - to expand their family.

 

Yet he has you all a glitter with 'love' cause he he took time away from the kids, he proclaims to love so much, to talk to you, have sex with you, confide in you, or whatever he chose to do instead of taking care of his children so his wife could get some sleep.

 

Yeah, he's a winner. I hope his wife finds out, kicks him out, gets all the alimony and child support she possibly can and finds another man who wants JUST HER and wants to be a 'dad' to their kids since he can't be bothered to do it

[Serendipity55]

Grammie - your post hit me hard. I know he chooses her and chose her (got married, has had another baby with her...on that he very recently said to be (after I said he has all he wants) "I have a wife, but I never said to you that's what I wanted. I said I wanted kids. I wanted a wife before we started". I don't know what he means but it is crazy talk as no-one forced him to marry).

 

I have no doubt he tells her how much he loves her - he's told me "I love her, I love you, I don't deny it".

 

In my rational mind is see him for what he is, the selfish (yet brutally honest with me at least - he tells me he loves us both the same, and also tells me how hard it is being with me) user of me and her. It's hard to admit he's not conflicted or confused but just fundamentally selfish. I'm seeing it more and more. He's happy because he's doing what he wants, getting all he wants. He's got a new baby (what he wants), a family/wife (what he wants), me (what he wants)...but he doesn't want to be a full-time husband because that doesn't make him happy so that's why he's not focussed fully on his family (when he has a newborn and a wife recovering from a c-section and a toddler).

 

He must justify it to himself because he says "i know I'm a bad husband but I am a great father because I'm there for my kids, providing, giving them what they need". He actually called me few days ago, on loudspeaker, with his older child in the back of the car. He'd just told me how the older child now has just started recounting things that have happened when out with him back to his mother who's at home. He was talking to me and was talking about us, in front of his son. Who apparently reports back to his mother. As soon as I realised the child could hear and possibly understand I said it wasn't appropriate and ended the call - but it was like it hadn't dawned on him, the risk.

 

For any WSs reading, when your As ended did it make you work on your marriage and did you become better spouses as a result or were just unhappily married? I wonder if I wasn't around in his life he'd be forced to be a better, full-time husband and father because he wouldn't have anywhere else to go.

 

 

I know we both deserve better (W and me) but she's in a state of blissful ignorance. At least I have choices. Maybe that's better (for her to be in the dark) but I do sometimes think "I wish she would find out somehow" so she could make informed choices about her life and so he's exposed for who he really is. As I'm already a cuckoo in her nest it seems like a new level of cruel to shatter her illusions but I do sometimes think it would be better long-term if somehow it all came to light.

[Serendipity55]

Just in the interest of balance and for your views...his new baby is a week old and although I've heard from him (many texts/call) every day and he's asked to see me this past week - he did say he'd only be able to spare a few hours for lunch/dinner/coffee. He also said, for the short term at least, to see me I'd have to come closer to his home (we've always met at times and places convenient/close to me because I too have a young child). So, he is putting his children first in that regard i.e. he wants to be there for them at this time when they really need him to be I suppose. He's careful not to take time away from them to see me. He's always said he loves them above all else. He's also asked me if I could bear spending time with his family and W, so he could see me more and be more of a "physical presence in his life".

 

I should add I have refused to meet him and obviously won't be hanging out with the W.

[elaine567]

I do sometimes think "I wish she would find out somehow".

 

Of course you do, but not for some high minded reason about her choices it is about you getting out of this limbo.

 

If she finds out, he shuts you out of his life completely to repair his marriage and so you have no choice but to move on...

OR she finds out takes herself and the kids out of his life, and you swoop in to take the spoils...

YOU get out of limbo without having to make any decisions, they will be made for you and that I guess is what you want.

 

BUT he may just accept reconciliation and still reach out to you and you are then back to stage one...

[elaine567]

..his new baby is a week old

 

Don't you feel the least bit yucky doing this to his wife?

She is experiencing some of the most important, memorable and best days of her life. It is all about love, celebration, joy, innocence and purity of the newborn, but her utter heel of a husband is setting up "dates" with his OW..

 

Not only that he now wants you to befriend his wife and family so he can have both of you in one place...

Can you not see how horrible this man truly is?

 

I guess this is the perfect time for you to exit stage left.

There is nothing but heartache in line for you here.

[Darren Steez]

 

I repeated your ice-cream analogy to him. He said "using your ice-cream analogy I always had vanilla and then one day chocolate got thrown in and since then I couldn't imagine not having chocolate and vanilla".

 

 

When your value as a human being is reduced to an ice cream flavour.

 

So long as you perceive yourself to wallow in weakness and compare yourself in analogy to an ice cream flavour while your life drifts by, fair play.

[Serendipity55]

Yes, I do. Of course I do. I'm not without conscience.

 

I appreciate the honesty but I am also looking for support and not judgment. I don't know his W and my primary concern is my daughter and myself - doing what I need to do to not spiral and feel out of control and that's writing on here so I keep focussed on how the A is damaging primarily for me and my loved ones. I know I'm not a victim, I chose to have poor boundaries but although she's innocent she also doesn't know so all feels OK and normal in her world. Whereas in mine, whether I am the architect of my own pain or not, everything is not good and I am struggling with the sense of disappointment and rejection. Justified or not, I am where I am.

 

I am not meeting up with him and I am not giving him what he wants (to be back together). I am engaging with him but I'm not giving into him.

 

I would add from my own personal experience that having a newborn baby isn't the best days of your life. That's a romanticised view of it in my opinion. They're incredibly hard and I found it a very difficult and painful (physically) time. I was just trying to get through it to be honest. But hopefully that's not everyones experience.

[elaine567]

I would add from my own personal experience that having a newborn baby isn't the best days of your life. That's a romanticised view of it in my opinion. They're incredibly hard and I found it a very difficult and painful (physically) time. I was just trying to get through it to be honest. But hopefully that's not everyones experience.

 

NO judgement from me, just trying to make you see how it looks to an outsider.

 

The fact you found it incredibly hard with a newborn is that not even more reason that she needs the support of a good man, not some guy who is setting up coffee dates with his OW...

Is that truly the kind of a man you would want to have a long term future with and expose your daughter to?

[Serendipity55]

Yes, the analogy is a particular low point. It drove me further from him. But, at least he was honest. I can't ask him for honesty and then be upset when he gives it to me. I know I should listen to him and realise I'm not special enough to him to have eclipsed his W in his affections. He said his feelings for me grow and they've exacerbated his marital problems. I think I deserve to be not one of two but just the one. He says it's not that binary...because there are children involved. If there weren't he might not be with her and to quote "there'd be a real chance we'd be together". A chance, not a definite. As someone else said he's told me he'd be able to sever ties with his W (if not kids) but he'd still fancy her...so even if I was his partner sounds like he'd be still sleeping with his W.

 

A while ago, I was fed up with what I perceived as his fence sitting (I love you both equally) and I said to him but what if you had to save just one of us and you could only save one...he said that he would choose himself because he couldn't pick between us. He wanted my takeaway to be 'so he must love us the same' but it wasn't, I thought, how characteristic of him...he'd choose himself. He always does. He even said to me if we were just friends still he'd warn me off guys like him because they're bad partners. He has some introspection.

[Serendipity55]

Elaine - I appreciate your advice. I am aware it all sounds terribly awful and it's never who I wanted to be, this weak doormat woman. I am just writing here to try and make some sense of my own feelings I guess and I thank you for your input. It's why I am here after all.

 

If I'm not around do you think he'll suddenly transform to become a better husband? He seems resigned to fact he's a 'bad husband'. He doesn't seem to want to work on the issues they face. He knows my presence in his life has exacerbated their problems 'accelerated fact they were heading to a stage of not getting on' (his words) but he always comes back. I walk away and he comes back. So he doesn't seem to have the appetite to work on it. I wonder if a d-day would force him to? Not that I'm suggesting I should be the one to reveal all.

[Serendipity55]

And no, I wouldn't want to expose my child to this man or for him to become her father. She needs strong and positive role models in men and although I have all these conflicting feelings for him, I know deep deep down, he has no boundaries and even if that doesn't make him intrinsically bad, he is almost certainly weak and cowardly, and she needs a strong man with integrity.

[Midwestmissy]

So because he needs to cheat closer to home due to the small babes, that's him putting his kids' needs first? You're rationalizing.

 

I do think you writing this all out is good - the absurdity will be clearer. Please remember too that HES the problem. Not his wife, not the marriage. And wherever he is, he's going to be there with his big sack of problems.

 

Since your daughter is obvs the most important person in your life, what is this deceitful relationship teaching her? Please be a role model for her - one who has healthy relationships with kind men. He's insanely disrespectful to his own family - your mistake will be in thinking that he won't do the same to you - no one is soecial to him. This is how he treats his wife and kids, you have a front row seat to this train wreck. This guy is a loser. Being made to feel special by a cheater and a liar is NOT flattering. Being pursued by a married man doesn't mean you're super desirable or special to him, it means you're with a cheater. It also means you're shutting the door on meeting men who would adore you and your daughter, fully and authentically. And honestly.

 

He doesn't love you and his wife the way either of you deserves. He loves being the puppet master in this triangle, so he feels super cool. Sexy and attractive and manly is standing up for your family, not being a total tool to the people who love you and need you and trust you.

[wmacbride]

"One day, chocolate got thrown in..." like it was just a happy accident.

 

OMG - this just makes me laugh. This guy is something else...

 

I can't imagine telling my husband "I like vanilla, but why shouldn't I have chocolate too. I can't imagine not having both - chocolate and vanilla." That is such an entitled and arrogant statement to make - it's actually unbelievable to me that someone could feel that way.

 

It's ridiculous.

 

The chocolate didn't just get thrown in there. This guy drove to the store, bought the ice cream, drove home, carefully scooped it out, added it to the dish and stirred it all around until it ended up as a big sticky mess.

 

It's not an accident.