A MM's story - really resonated with me

[stillafool]

And no, I wouldn't want to expose my child to this man or for him to become her father. She needs strong and positive role models in men and although I have all these conflicting feelings for him, I know deep deep down, he has no boundaries and even if that doesn't make him intrinsically bad, he is almost certainly weak and cowardly, and she needs a strong man with integrity.

 

She also needs a strong mother with integrity as well.

[Serendipity55]

I wondered whether it was a sign of controlling behaviour. Or jealousy. Incidentally it's just a friend and I told him that but still was angry. I think also felt angry at being out of the loop - as in he heard second hand I was bringing a friend.

 

I know I'm still forensically analysing his words, which don't matter, but I think it's helping my sort the jumble of my mind. I have started to move forwards, even if it's just motions for now, arranged nights out, looked for courses to take that fit in around my mummy job, and am considering therapy (thing is I know what my issues are so I'm not sure the value of counselling - I am always analysing myself anyway so I'm not sure I'd get any further with someone else but perhaps I am wrong).

 

Midnight - you said it's a new level of pain if W finds out. I can imagine it gets worse and worse. I also imagine it's a loss of control that adds to the pain i.e. he shuts you down as opposed to other way round? At least if we make the decision to leave we're not left feeling like we've been 'dumped' and the associated feelings of rejection.

 

He says if it came out he wouldn't deny his feelings as "all would be lost" but I bet they all say that too.

[freengreen]

How long are you buying everything he sells?...

 

You can unsubscribe these 'issues' right now, but that will only happen when you realise that its YOU who is painting him divine. Once you stop using the paint and see, he will be one of those men who lie and cheat and lie again to the mistress... would you choose a man if he was a coward to his wife and lie to his mistress just to string her along for the rest of her life?. Well, that is his unpainted profile;take it ( if you do want to get stringed alonged life) or leave it ( too many reasons to mention)

Edited July 31, 2017 by freengreen

[freengreen]

Did anyone else feel that sense of injustice? He's getting away with it and he's got all he wants.

 

 

Yes, i did. He strung me along with no real purpose and I ended it. He did try to stop me albeit with not much effort. But after a week I felt I was wallowing in pain and he was like ' ok thanks for your time, next!'.

 

I learnt that affairs are meant to be shallow and I was in a wrong place. Hope you will find strength to say 'NO!. you might trick everyone to get what you want BUT NOT ME'. These men will stillnot have any remorse even after you say that but it will give you some peace that you left on your own and you had that strength.

[wmacbride]

op,

I know it's hard to do as you are right in the centre of all of this, by try and look at it objectively.

 

This is a guy who wants to have both his wife and his other woman at an event, and is throwing a hissy fit because you, at least in his mind, have the absolute nerve to bring along a friend who is a man.

 

So let's see. By his logic, it's okay for him to cheat on his pregnant/ new mom wife, all he while telling you how much he loves his kids. It's perfectly fine for him to ask you to endure a huge amount of pain at seeing him interact with his wife at a happy occasion, all while you sit there like some dirty little secret? Does he care how much you are hurting now or how hurtful that could be to you? I don't think he does. I think he has this picture in his mind of him sitting there like the cat who juts swallowed the canary while he watches the two women who love him be at his back and call...and your plan to bring another man to the party squelched that.

 

 

 

Awww....poor baby. Too bad, so sad.

 

What a schumck! How dare he do that to you? Why is a board full of strangers angrier at his behavior than you are?

 

What on earth makes you feel you deserve this kind of treatment? i can assure you that you don't. No one does. You sound like a strong, independent woman who would normally not give him the time of day, and I really question exactly what it is that he brings to the table. A bad attitude? A cruel streak that's a mile wide? The jackass gene?

 

If you need further incentive, think on this. If it was your daughter in this situation instead of you, what advice would you give her?

 

One more thing to keep in mind is that by wasting your life on this guy, you are hurting your child ( not intentionally). If you could let him go, you can move on and be happy without the constant stress and mental effort wasted on this guy. You might even find a man who you can be with who isn't already married and who will treat the two of you with respect. This guy could be so much better for you, and as the saying goes "happy mom, happy kids" ( I know it's happy wife, happy life, but I adjusted it...).

 

If you can't kick him to the curb for yourself, can you do it for her? Of course, it's going to be painful, but that pain will go away, and one day, you'll see his picture or hear sometime about him, and you'll realize the sting is gone and you'll want to kick yourself for ever having wasted any of your life on him.

 

To sum up a long post...all I know about you is what you write and if even half of that is true, you deserve so much better than he is giving you, or that he is capable of giving you I don't think it's a choice on his part. He's just showing you who he really is.

[SoleMate]

Right now, I feel rising waves of anxiety, like I'm almost about to burst out of my skin. It feels like a loss of control. It's strange because there's been no d-day, he's not ended it (thus causing a sense of loss of control)...nothing has changed. So I don't know why I'm reacting this way.

I suspect it is due to a gradually dawning awareness of how much you have given away your control to MM, without consciously realizing it. You do have loss of control as you've put important decisions about your future in MM's hands while in A fog. I believe you're waking up and starting to defog. That will feel really bad for a while but it's better than defogging at age 85. Hugs to you, hoping for a happier future.

[MidnightBlue1980]

 

Midnight - you said it's a new level of pain if W finds out. I can imagine it gets worse and worse. I also imagine it's a loss of control that adds to the pain i.e. he shuts you down as opposed to other way round? At least if we make the decision to leave we're not left feeling like we've been 'dumped' and the associated feelings of rejection.

 

He says if it came out he wouldn't deny his feelings as "all would be lost" but I bet they all say that too.

 

They do all say that, yes. Mine said that if she found out he would tell her how they had had a sexless marriage for years and he had developed feelings for someone else. When the time came, he said I was a crazy stalker who had pursued him and since he was weak from lack of sex, he fell victim to me and my wanton ways. So it was my fault and her fault. I know this because she spoke to my husband. My husband tried to tell her but she bought it for the next year till she found out the truth. STILL SHE STAYED. And so did he. They wanted to be together and I was collateral damage.

 

The flip side, my H also had an affair and he was honest that he was in luv with her and how wonderful she was, how terrible I was, and so on and so on. But I said - go be with her, but he didn't want that. He had no intention of actually leaving me. He just wanted some fun and to get me back, see what it was all about, this other people stuff. But he was still confused so his mother spoke to him - yes, his mommy told him to unload the girlfriend and focus on his family. And he listened to mommy. He played around with the OW for a while, I told her the truth, and she moved on. He felt bad for maybe 2 weeks. Me? I was suicidal and under a rock for 18 months.

 

So I got to see what xmm felt like by watching my H, except my H is a big mush. xMM is not. So he probably felt nothing when it ended.

 

I don't know if your mm is like my xmm or my H but in either situation, they had no intention of leaving. And both were actually honest about it, I - and the OW - just heard what we wanted to hear. We each thought, if you are so unhappy, you must be about to leave. You have got to listen to what these guys are telling you. Your guy here, he got married - was that while he was with you? - and he just had another baby. He is not going anywhere.

 

You may be wondering why I stayed. It's not that easy to just leave. People post here how you can split your kids and be happy. It's kind of a lie. It's a big thing to split apart your family, typically you cannot afford to support 2 households. There are not systems in place for the working spouse to take care of the kids when it is her/his turn as they never really did that. They have to go to a job. What are you going to do w the kids? Bring them with you to work? People say daycare, you can't put a 8 year old in daycare and camps are thousands of dollars a month. Money you don't have as you are trying to support 2 households. Where are you going to live? And the other spouse, if they never worked, what are they going to do? It's not that easy to get a job in this economy, it's so specialized.

 

And here is the thing, it's all the same in the end. Unless someone is beating you or you are crying daily, whatever your issues are, your problems are with your marriage, its going to be the same thing in the next relationship. Boredom, monotony, married sex, bills, family, work, its the same old crap and it will just follow you to the next relationship except you will have all the issues (unresolved) from your current marriage. Now you will have an ex spouse, kids, money issues on top of it.

 

So you stay and you work it out. Obviously you need to love the person and the sex has to be good, you can't be married to an abusive ahole, but you don't just leave a marriage because you fall in love with someone else. Because 5 years later, you or that new person will do the same thing all over again.

[Serendipity55]

Midnight - thank you. We'd had chats, dinners, drinks etc and kissed a few times before he got married (in the two months preceding it) but nothing of any substance until after. He'd been married for a month when he told me he loved me. The second baby came along soon after. He said it was because he wanted another baby and his W was almost "ancillary" (his word) - he wanted his other child to have a sibling and he felt broody. I know, BS.

 

wmacbride - thank you for your words. I think you're right - the true colours are there for me to see.

 

Jenkins95 - thank you. did you end it with your OW? Or did she? What caused the d-day?

[jenkins95]

OP, print this off and frame it - is brilliant.

 

He's shown his true cake eating colours and sometimes it takes an objective outsider to see it.

 

I was a little like him once. I had the selfishness to be jealous when my OW told me she was going out with a male friend... While I was out with my wife. At least I didn't have the nerve to actually voice it.

 

Good luck OP. Keep posting

 

op,

I know it's hard to do as you are right in the centre of all of this, by try and look at it objectively.

 

This is a guy who wants to have both his wife and his other woman at an event, and is throwing a hissy fit because you, at least in his mind, have the absolute nerve to bring along a friend who is a man.

 

So let's see. By his logic, it's okay for him to cheat on his pregnant/ new mom wife, all he while telling you how much he loves his kids. It's perfectly fine for him to ask you to endure a huge amount of pain at seeing him interact with his wife at a happy occasion, all while you sit there like some dirty little secret? Does he care how much you are hurting now or how hurtful that could be to you? I don't think he does. I think he has this picture in his mind of him sitting there like the cat who juts swallowed the canary while he watches the two women who love him be at his back and call...and your plan to bring another man to the party squelched that.

 

 

 

Awww....poor baby. Too bad, so sad.

 

What a schumck! How dare he do that to you? Why is a board full of strangers angrier at his behavior than you are?

 

What on earth makes you feel you deserve this kind of treatment? i can assure you that you don't. No one does. You sound like a strong, independent woman who would normally not give him the time of day, and I really question exactly what it is that he brings to the table. A bad attitude? A cruel streak that's a mile wide? The jackass gene?

 

If you need further incentive, think on this. If it was your daughter in this situation instead of you, what advice would you give her?

 

One more thing to keep in mind is that by wasting your life on this guy, you are hurting your child ( not intentionally). If you could let him go, you can move on and be happy without the constant stress and mental effort wasted on this guy. You might even find a man who you can be with who isn't already married and who will treat the two of you with respect. This guy could be so much better for you, and as the saying goes "happy mom, happy kids" ( I know it's happy wife, happy life, but I adjusted it...).

 

If you can't kick him to the curb for yourself, can you do it for her? Of course, it's going to be painful, but that pain will go away, and one day, you'll see his picture or hear sometime about him, and you'll realize the sting is gone and you'll want to kick yourself for ever having wasted any of your life on him.

 

To sum up a long post...all I know about you is what you write and if even half of that is true, you deserve so much better than he is giving you, or that he is capable of giving you I don't think it's a choice on his part. He's just showing you who he really is.

[Serendipity55]

So I know this is a good thing, haven't heard from him today...apart from a message at 1am saying "upset me to find out about the fact you're bringing a man to the party second hand...hope you're feeling better soon" [i have had a tummy bug] and usually he's a frequent communicator. He did say, when he was angry, "I need space" (but he says this periodically when he feels I am pulling away).

 

Is that classic control behaviour? I wonder if he knows he does it or its just something he does...have I been blind to him being possessive and controlling? He's always said he'll be jealous if I move on but ultimately not fair of him to stop me when he 'can't' give me what I need.

[BaileyB]

And he really can't give you what you need... a loving, loyal, dependable, honest, trustworthy, devoted husband and partner for yourself and father for your daughter. He is clearly not your man.

 

But, that is beside the point. Yes, I can imagine that by pulling back and limiting communication he is hoping that you will be concerned that he is upset and withdrawing his affections... and come running right back to him. It's a power play to restore the power dynamic of the relationship - the one where he is in control, enjoys all the benefits, and has all the fun while you are meant to meet his needs - in much the same way that you describe his wife when he made the decision to have a second child (it is absolutely astounding to me that a man could describe his wife in that way and feel so entitled!).

 

I simply can't believe that this man is marrying and having children with another woman while he is also grooming and establishing an extramarital affair with you. There are no words how disturbing this is to me... He is a terrible, terrible man and you should be so angry with him - why are you not angry with him!! I am angry at the way he has used you and played with your emotions and vulnerability. It's definitely time for you to get your head together and kick him to the curb!

[Serendipity55]

I am getting angrier. I just worry that if I get angry I'll lose it and want to tell everyone. I've been told that will cause untold destruction to me and to his W so I know I don't want to go down that road. I want to be dignified - anger might make me lose my hold on that.

 

Your words make so much sense to me. I think it is a power play but I've made excuses for him.

[Serendipity55]

...and thinking about it he often says "me and my W aren't speaking at the moment" and perhaps he does same thing at home...things p*ss him off and he withdraws instead of communicating better.

[BaileyB]

...and thinking about it he often says "me and my W aren't speaking at the moment" and perhaps he does same thing at home...things p*ss him off and he withdraws instead of communicating better.

 

The silent treatment is a common way of communicating/managing conflict for lots of people.

 

Your anger will support your ability to end it. Use your anger to strengthen your resolve to walk away. Anger, and your willingness to create a better life for your child.

[Serendipity55]

I just wonder why sometimes my anger is slow to come...I should be angry but I feel because I've been a willing participant can I 'blame' him? I'm not going to contact him though.

[BaileyB]

My personal opinion, you have some responsibility for the decision you made to accept this man into your life. I would really encourage you to examine why you were vulnerable to this man and why you let him into your life and the life of your child... given that he clearly was not in your best interest.

 

But, take a step back and look at the situation from an outside perspective.... Your sister, your best friend, your daughter... has lost her husband and is caring for their young child. This woman is lost, she is lonely, she is grieving... Along comes a man who recognizes an opportunity and pursues your friend. He exploits her vulnerability and engages in a sexual relationship with her - while at the same time marrying another woman and having children with this woman. He uses your friend's body, plays with her emotions, complains about his wife, and makes promises he has no intention to fulfill... How would you feel toward this man? How would you feel for his wife? How would you feel for your friend?

[Serendipity55]

Thanks Bailey. This helped. I think, if I take a step back, he hasn't made any promises to me that he hasn't fulfilled - he's never said he'd leave just that he might one day if things get worse with his W but he's never said "I'll leave for you". I wouldn't want that either to be honest - to be an exit springboard.

 

When I've told I need some space and distance previously he's never really respected it. He's said he knows it's the right and sensible thing for me to do but he always messages with a lot of "sugar" i.e. big declarations of love, feeling physically sick and emotionally unstable without me, etc. I guess before these hooked me in, I thought "he must care and miss me because he's longing for me". Now I'm thinking if he was a good person who did care for me, would he just let me be and go away...(although that response from him would make me think "he doesn't care, he's not fighting for this". Can't win).

 

I think he's a sensitive and emotional person - more akin to Midnight's H. He gets upset and broods. Perhaps he's moody. I have only ever seen him in the bubble of the A so how would I know. I think he's told me he can be moody in the past and this latest behaviour from him (going silent after feeling jealousy / anger this male friend of mine knows about us) suggests that. This man btw is complete stranger to him, they've never met and they're not part of same social circle but he seems he (the male friend of mine) might know about us. Is that fear of discovery? Even though the friend of mine doesn't know him or his W and has not interest in this except how it affects me?

 

I just wonder whether he's really angry about me not telling him this friend was coming to the party or whether it's just anger about more people potentially knowing about the A. I know I'm navel gazing again and wondering about his behaviour isn't particularly useful or healthy. I just feel there's been a big sea change from him. Three days ago it was "never leave me, I can't cope" and now it's "I need space". Have his feelings just evaporated, perhaps he's reached a tipping point (good for me in long run I know)...I know men can compartmentalise much more successfully in general.

[Serendipity55]

Apologies for my frequent typos...

 

Anyway, 69% of divorces are initiated by women...Just checked for those who are interested...can't remember if we discussed that on this thread or elsewhere. As suspected based on our anecdotal evidence.

[jenkins95]

Jenkins95 - thank you. did you end it with your OW? Or did she? What caused the d-day?

 

Hey (((Serendipity)))

 

How are you doing today? I've been very impressed with your posts these past few days. Keep it up!

 

To answer your question, could I please refer you to this thread I started over a year ago?

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/571722-anatomy-end-affair-mm-perspective

 

The first post in that thread gives a pretty comprehensive background and it was written when I was just a couple of months into NC so things were still quite raw. I hope it may help you!

 

Thinking of you and wishing you nothing but the best!

[Serendipity55]

Jenkins - thank you for directing me to your story. Wow, it brought be to tears. So raw and honest. Also I identified with so much of what you wrote. I will, when I feel stronger, read the rest of the thread. Thank you for sharing your experience so candidly. It helps to hear an MM's perspective.

 

I think I am at the stage of putting one foot in front of the other. I feel intense sadness at the knowledge I'll never be able to be friends with him again. I know that's mad because he's shown himself to be very flawed coupled with the fact he's not talking to me at the moment (and I don't really know why...). I am also not contacting him. I feel so down. I wear a mask all day so my daughter and friends and family don't suspect anything but I feel so heartbroken underneath and I know it's self-inflicted and I know I have the power to stop it from getting worse but it still feels painful.

[Serendipity55]

Jenkins - do you know if your xOW is happy now? It seems so sad to me that you loved her so much but still let her go meaning ultimately you loved and valued your wife more. Sad for your xOW because you did seem to really love her. Maybe you didn't, maybe just infatuated. I wonder if ANY man ever leaves for the OW...I'm sure it happens but rarely.

 

For me it sometimes makes it harder that I know, or I think, my MM does genuinely love me too...especially when he says 'he's in love with us both but for very different reasons'. He also has the insight to know his love for me is the hormonal romantic sort whereas his love for his wife is based on history and now his children. A bond i'll never compete with. So he is ultimately pragmatic. His pragmatism gives me little comfort. I feel like he reciprocates my feelings but just not enough - like having all but one of the winning lottery numbers. I wonder if it's easier if you know that you're just sex, easier to be angry and easier to close the door. I don't know. I'm just musing again.

[Serendipity55]

Also, can he truly really love his W when he's conducting an A just 14 days after he's got married and for the duration of her pregnancy and is trying to reignite it 1 day after she's had her baby? It doesn't look much like love but I appreciate it's a complicated business. He loves her but is compartmentalising? He loves her but not as he should / not as she would expect / her parents family would expect? He says he doesn't get on with her but does love her.

[BaileyB]

Also, can he truly really love his W when he's conducting an A just 14 days after he's got married and for the duration of her pregnancy and is trying to reignite it 1 day after she's had her baby? It doesn't look much like love but I appreciate it's a complicated business.

 

It's not love. It's certainly not respect. Don't try to understand it, or explain it, and certainly don't try to justify or rationalize it by saying "it is a complicated business..." His behavior is incomprehensible and inexcusable. And it should be, the biggest RED FLAG to warn you away from this man...

 

I think the fact that he was engaging in an extramarital affair while getting married and having children doesn't necessarily say anything about his wife or their relationship as much as it speaks to his character and his integrity. I mean, what kind of a man does this?

[Serendipity55]

"I think the fact that he was engaging in an extramarital affair while getting married and having children doesn't necessarily say anything about his wife or their relationship as much as it speaks to his character and his integrity. I mean, what kind of a man does this?"

 

Do you mean because he can compartmentalise - so cheating on his W doesn't mean he doesn't love her or their relationship isn't strong?

[BaileyB]

"I think the fact that he was engaging in an extramarital affair while getting married and having children doesn't necessarily say anything about his wife or their relationship as much as it speaks to his character and his integrity. I mean, what kind of a man does this?"

 

Do you mean because he can compartmentalise - so cheating on his W doesn't mean he doesn't love her or their relationship isn't strong?

 

I have no idea. Does anyone really know what happens in another relationship?

 

My brain simply can't go to a place where a man would be able to pursue a relationship have sex with another woman - while his wife was bringing his newborn child home from the hospital. I simply can't find the words to describe to you how disturbing this is to me. As his wife, the mother of his children, this woman is deserving of his love and respect.

 

He chose this woman to be his wife. He chose to have a life with her - to share meals and finances, to plan holidays together, to visit her mother together, to have children and watch them grow together, to grow old and care for each other when they get sick... Clearly, he must have some affection for this woman.

 

Telling you that they don't get along or whatever else he feels he needs to tell you to get you into bed (ie. she is not a good person, they don't have sex anymore, etc...) is in the cheater handbook, page 101. This man is a liar - why would you ever believe him when he says that he doesn't get along with his wife...

 

At the end of the day, you can't believe anything he says about his marriage. Maybe she is a wonderful person who is loving and supportive and they have a wonderful sex life. Perhaps, she struggles with postpartum depression and is exhausted because she has two small children and her husband is never home (because he is out sleeping with other women). Maybe, she has a full life with family and friends and she just wants to raise her children and ignore the fact that her husband can be an ungrateful a$$ sometimes. Or, perhaps she pressures him constantly and they really don't get along well at all...

 

Regardless of how things are at home and what kind of relationship he has with his wife, he has made the decision to do something that would be considered to be absolutely despicable by 9/10 people (him being the tenth person;)). He is accountable for his decisions - and the decision to sex it up with another woman while his wife is raising his young children speaks volumes about his character.