A MM's story - really resonated with me

[wmacbride]

"I think the fact that he was engaging in an extramarital affair while getting married and having children doesn't necessarily say anything about his wife or their relationship as much as it speaks to his character and his integrity. I mean, what kind of a man does this?"

 

Do you mean because he can compartmentalise - so cheating on his W doesn't mean he doesn't love her or their relationship isn't strong?

 

What difference does it make?

 

The fact that he can compartmentalize so successfully should be waving more red flags in your face than there are in the whole of China.

 

He's conducting an affair with you ( or trying to) while he married his wife, slept with her sans protection, she got pregnant, had the baby, etc.

 

Let me break that down one more time.

 

He is tangled up with you, and decides to add a baby to the mix? He claims to want to be a great dad, wants to be with you but can't because of his child, then he goes and has another child?

 

That doesn't even make any sense.

 

Why would he do that?

 

My guess is two reasons. the first is he's full of crap, and the second is he thinks you'll put up with all of this, and also that he really doesn't respect you at all.

 

You're here tying yourself up in knots, and he's perfectly fine asking to to keep the status quo right on going. How is that okay?

[jenkins95]

Jenkins - do you know if your xOW is happy now? It seems so sad to me that you loved her so much but still let her go meaning ultimately you loved and valued your wife more. Sad for your xOW because you did seem to really love her. Maybe you didn't, maybe just infatuated. I wonder if ANY man ever leaves for the OW...I'm sure it happens but rarely.

 

Hi Serendipity (hug)! Thanks so much for reading my old thread and for your very nice words!

 

If you've read my more recent posts you'll see that they are a now a lot more grounded and practical and less "tragic" than when I was that silly love sick puppy all those months ago!

 

This is because, I threw myself 100% back into reconciliation and did the work to understand exactly what had happened, when, how, why, etc! I now see things for what they were and am happy in my marriage again.

 

I did have genuine feelings for the OW, no question about it, but I don't think I would call it love - not the mature love that I now understand much better. It was new love, infatuation, excitement. limerence, "the fog", whatever you want to call it. It was very genuine, but it was immature and the context in which it occured was a big fantasy - a fantasy that could only exist with cheating and lies. Also, this crazy in love feeling was no different from what I'd experienced many years before, with my wife, and prior to that with other girlfriends. I soon saw that there was no magic involved - just selfishness, attraction and hormones. As with all relationships, this would have eventually died down. An affair context tends to amplify it, but transferring this type of an affair into a "real" context is notoriously difficult.

 

In a long marriage of course, these feelings tend to fade to be replaced by mature deep love, but because this kind of love is not so exciting, immediately rewarding and prone to send our hormones rushing, if one is not careful and lets one's guard down, as I did, it is quite possible to fall into the new, exciting type of love, even if you have a good marriage and have the mature, deep love committed love with your spouse.

 

MM who allow this to happen are stupid - and I am as guilty as any of them. What starts out as a naughty, illicit exciting few flirts rapidly descends into a fully fledged affair, hearts get involved (including the MM), the lies and betrayal amplify...and you are on a one way road to complete destruction, however the A turns out. After all, SOMEONE is going to get hurt, that's absolutely guaranteed. Normally (as in my case), many people do.

 

As I posted about yesterday, many MM find themselves in a position where, despite them being a POS (again, guilty as charged), BOTH women want them and they are forced to perform a cost-benefit analysis in the full knowledge that they are inevitably going to destroy someone. This si a HORRIBLE position to be in (but I'm not expecting sympathy!). When I was in that position, I simply forced myself to use intelligence, advice and common sense - head over heart thinking. But not with the complete absence of the heart. If I knew I could never feel romantic love for my wife again, I would have left as it would have been insulting to everyone, but that doesn't mean I would have run straight for the arms of the OW. In all likelyhood, I would have stayed on my own and allowed my breakdown to play out before even considering getting involved woith someone again.

 

I don't regret my decision at all. But then - we HAVE to say that don't we? No doubt, MM who run off with the OW also claim to have made the right decision. At the end of the day, whatever decision we make, we better make sure in our mind that it is the right one, or otherwise we will live a life of misery and regret forever.

 

As for the OW, well I haven't had any contact with her since the end of the A, so I don't know how she is, but I truly hope she is well and happy. Certain things she said make me think that she probably moved on pretty quickly. She often said she very easily falls in and out of love (she had pursued a MM once before - no A, but not for lack of trying on her part), that she quickly got bored of things and that 'forever' scares her. Also, she's young, beautiful has loads of friends and lives in an exciting, big, vibrant city. She has very likely put the A long behind her, and I truly hope so.

 

I hope you will feel better too S - you seem lovely from your posts. Good luck

[elaine567]

...he's not talking to me at the moment (and I don't really know why...). .

 

YOU are not acting like the good little OW, you are not willing to meet him close to home, you are unwilling to get involved with his wife as he suggested you should, you are not willing to stay home whilst he takes his wife to this party or go alone so he that feel like da man at the party, he has his wife and mistress in the same room and no-one else knows...what a buzz...

 

YOU are stepping out of line so he has to punish you and when HE decides to pick you up again you will be oh soooooo grateful and relieved, that you will ditch the male friend, fall into his arms, and never want to step out of line again...

[DKT3]

YOU are not acting like the good little OW, you are not willing to meet him close to home, you are unwilling to get involved with his wife as he suggested you should, you are not willing to stay home whilst he takes his wife to this party or go alone so he that feel like da man at the party, he has his wife and mistress in the same room and no-one else knows...what a buzz...

 

YOU are stepping out of line so he has to punish you and when HE decides to pick you up again you will be oh soooooo grateful and relieved, that you will ditch the male friend, fall into his arms, and never want to step out of line again...

 

Yep, and she believes this is love. He sounds like a controlling a hole to me. Don't talk to anyone, wait at home til I'm ready for you, befriend my wife (this of course is to quite any questions his wife may have). Than on top of that if you didn't not agree silence. Explain to us what's loving about this? Oh wait, because he says I love you both.

 

I know you are emotionally tangled up here, but it's pretty clear that this is at best a very one sided relationship with his actions saying shut your mouth and know your role.

[jah526]

I think I am at the stage of putting one foot in front of the other. I feel intense sadness at the knowledge I'll never be able to be friends with him again. I know that's mad because he's shown himself to be very flawed coupled with the fact he's not talking to me at the moment (and I don't really know why...). I am also not contacting him. I feel so down. I wear a mask all day so my daughter and friends and family don't suspect anything but I feel so heartbroken underneath and I know it's self-inflicted and I know I have the power to stop it from getting worse but it still feels painful.

 

Do you think there might be something deeper here, something that's keeping you tied to this man even though rationally you know it's better to let him go? If I understood your story right, MM came along not long after you lost your husband?

 

Something similar happened with me. My involvement with MM started around the time my mother was dying. I have had a difficult time letting him go even though I know he is really a bad guy (even independent of what happened between us). And I think there may be something tied up in my relationship with him to my mother's death. It could be that letting him go felt like another loss, or that he was providing a distraction from dealing with my grief, or that I needed it to mean something, since it took some of my attention away from her.

 

I think, when you've lost someone very close to you, you want to hold on to the others in your life that much tighter. But I'm learning that you have to choose carefully the ones that you hold tight. And let the others go.

[knabe]

Apologies for my frequent typos...

 

Anyway, 69% of divorces are initiated by women...Just checked for those who are interested...can't remember if we discussed that on this thread or elsewhere. As suspected based on our anecdotal evidence.

 

Men like to quote this statistic a lot. By itself it means nothing. It would only be meaningful if we knew WHY these women left.

[DKT3]

Men like to quote this statistic a lot. By itself it means nothing. It would only be meaningful if we knew WHY these women left.

 

We men are more often emotionally immature, we often use the make her end it tactical move. Secondly, admit it or not men have far more to lose in divorce, usually a major shift in the amount of time spent with kids, the amount of money and your address. Of course women file more often, but that doesn't mean they are more unhappy in marriages

[Deidre]

Anyone who treats you like you're a toy to take off of a shelf whenever it's convenient, doesn't love you. And that is exactly what married men do to their other women. Same for married women to other men. That's not love. They're users. They use their families, their kids, their spouses...they use everyone. Actions speak louder than words...always pay attention to actions, not the words.

 

If you love yourself, you won't let someone use you. I was never involved with a married guy, but have dated users before I got married, and they're all the same. They say ''I love you,'' just to keep you around for their own usage. You have to respect yourself enough to know that you deserve better, and anyone who cheats with you, will cheat on you. You will not 'win' a good person, should your OM/OW leave their spouse. You're just getting a cheater.

[Hbroken]

Thanks Bailey. This helped. I think, if I take a step back, he hasn't made any promises to me that he hasn't fulfilled - he's never said he'd leave just that he might one day if things get worse with his W but he's never said "I'll leave for you". I wouldn't want that either to be honest - to be an exit springboard.

 

When I've told I need some space and distance previously he's never really respected it. He's said he knows it's the right and sensible thing for me to do but he always messages with a lot of "sugar" i.e. big declarations of love, feeling physically sick and emotionally unstable without me, etc. I guess before these hooked me in, I thought "he must care and miss me because he's longing for me". Now I'm thinking if he was a good person who did care for me, would he just let me be and go away...(although that response from him would make me think "he doesn't care, he's not fighting for this". Can't win).

 

I think he's a sensitive and emotional person - more akin to Midnight's H. He gets upset and broods. Perhaps he's moody. I have only ever seen him in the bubble of the A so how would I know. I think he's told me he can be moody in the past and this latest behaviour from him (going silent after feeling jealousy / anger this male friend of mine knows about us) suggests that. This man btw is complete stranger to him, they've never met and they're not part of same social circle but he seems he (the male friend of mine) might know about us. Is that fear of discovery? Even though the friend of mine doesn't know him or his W and has not interest in this except how it affects me?

 

I just wonder whether he's really angry about me not telling him this friend was coming to the party or whether it's just anger about more people potentially knowing about the A. I know I'm navel gazing again and wondering about his behaviour isn't particularly useful or healthy. I just feel there's been a big sea change from him. Three days ago it was "never leave me, I can't cope" and now it's "I need space". Have his feelings just evaporated, perhaps he's reached a tipping point (good for me in long run I know)...I know men can compartmentalise much more successfully in general.

 

 

Hi Serendipity

I think i can help you with your problem.

I agree with all the great advice you have received - but i also understand that the heart wants what it wants and many times the heart can cloud all that the brain sees as rational.

At this point i just dont think you are in a place where you can let go. I understand that. However there are 2 things id like to say:

1) We can never change other people, we can only change ourselves

2) If you do the same thing over and over again, you can be sure to get the same result again and again.

 

So what we need to do in this equation is to change something because if you dont you will be stuck in limbo until the best years of your life have passed you by.

 

One all-consuming emotion that OW/OM experience far more than MM/MW is jealousy. Your MM does not experience jealously like you do because he knows you are single and you know he goes home to his wife every night.

So time to up the ante and balance the equation.

 

Say to your MM that you would like to start dating other guys again because it would only be fair. After all he is holding you back and therefore it is only right that whilst he decides what he wants for his future, he should not stop you for looking for some happiness yourself. Then make an online profile and put it out there. I am not for one minute suggesting that you do date other guys if you are niot comfortable doing so but i do think you should tell MM that you would like to try it out.

 

He is most likely to say NO in which case there will be more reinforcement in your mind that he is a selfish SOB and this will give you the couragee to kick him into touch

 

or if he says YES, it is only a matter of time that jealousy will get better of him and he will be forced to make a decision.

 

I know you are a good person and inherently would feel uncomfortable with what i have suggested ... but nothing ventured, nothing gained:-)

 

P.S also take him off the pedestal that you have put him on and look at what you are left with and this will make your life a lot easier.

[Hbroken]

P.S also take him off the pedestal that you have put him on and look at what you are left with and this will make your life a lot easier.

 

because even if he does end up with you long term you are going to have to take him off the pedestal someday..right?

[MidnightBlue1980]

I don't want to t/j but wow Jenkins. I read your linked post. I can relate to a lot of those feelings. For the women reading this though, I think you are an exception. Most men are fine having an affair. They don't attach like you did. My xmm certainly didn't. I got to see him for a whole year. Not only was he nothing like you described, he was happy. He thought he got away with it. The lying did not bother him at all.

It's good you are not like that though.

[lemondrop21]

Hi Serendipity

I think i can help you with your problem.

I agree with all the great advice you have received - but i also understand that the heart wants what it wants and many times the heart can cloud all that the brain sees as rational.

At this point i just dont think you are in a place where you can let go. I understand that. However there are 2 things id like to say:

1) We can never change other people, we can only change ourselves

2) If you do the same thing over and over again, you can be sure to get the same result again and again.

 

So what we need to do in this equation is to change something because if you dont you will be stuck in limbo until the best years of your life have passed you by.

 

One all-consuming emotion that OW/OM experience far more than MM/MW is jealousy. Your MM does not experience jealously like you do because he knows you are single and you know he goes home to his wife every night.

So time to up the ante and balance the equation.

 

Say to your MM that you would like to start dating other guys again because it would only be fair. After all he is holding you back and therefore it is only right that whilst he decides what he wants for his future, he should not stop you for looking for some happiness yourself. Then make an online profile and put it out there. I am not for one minute suggesting that you do date other guys if you are niot comfortable doing so but i do think you should tell MM that you would like to try it out.

 

He is most likely to say NO in which case there will be more reinforcement in your mind that he is a selfish SOB and this will give you the couragee to kick him into touch

 

or if he says YES, it is only a matter of time that jealousy will get better of him and he will be forced to make a decision.

 

I know you are a good person and inherently would feel uncomfortable with what i have suggested ... but nothing ventured, nothing gained:-)

 

P.S also take him off the pedestal that you have put him on and look at what you are left with and this will make your life a lot easier.

 

I do this (date other men) and have for much of the A. I don't tell MM details but I tell him where I've been and with who, if he asks. He doesn't like it but it's only "fair." It hasn't really done anything to motivate him to leave his marriage as far as I know.

 

Maybe OP's MM is different but I highly doubt it. He'll probably just use it as an excuse to play more of the victim ("see, she couldn't really have been THAT invested in me if she's so easily able to date someone else").

[lemondrop21]

OP, does your MM realize how messed up his actions are? Does he genuinely want to resolve the situation and stop hurting people? Just curious if he's ever talked to you about taking action in a concrete way - like doing counseling or talking with a trusted friend or something.

 

Surely by now he realizes that he can't just mend everything by cutting off the A cold turkey. Not given the fact that he's still doing this with a newborn in the house.

[elaine567]

I do this (date other men) and have for much of the A. I don't tell MM details but I tell him where I've been and with who, if he asks. He doesn't like it but it's only "fair." It hasn't really done anything to motivate him to leave his marriage as far as I know.

 

Maybe OP's MM is different but I highly doubt it. He'll probably just use it as an excuse to play more of the victim ("see, she couldn't really have been THAT invested in me if she's so easily able to date someone else").

 

I think the OW/OM idea that they should "even the score" and date and sleep with others is fine, it sounds fair and why not?

That is all well and good if the affair is just about fun and excitement, or the intention is to ultimately find someone else more suitable.

 

BUT I feel that most MM/MW in affairs are people who despite being in an affair, have fairly standard ideas about monogamy in the people they want to commit to.

So when the chips are down and they have to choose the spouse or the AP, they are hardly going to choose an AP who has dated others and fooled around during the affair over a spouse who has always been true.

APs are often not seen as "marriage material" anyway, but ones that chose to "even the score" have probably done irreparable damage if they ever had aspirations that eventually they would replace the spouse.

 

Making people jealous can have the desired effect sometimes, but not always, as for some it can also be a huge turn off, and in an affair situation may only serve to reinforce the idea of the AP not being of the "quality" to take seriously.

 

Serendipity needs to see others, not to make her MM jealous or to attempt to force his hand, she needs to see others to widen her horizons, get herself a different perspective on life, and to get out of the hopeless, apparently unending mess she finds herself in.

[BaileyB]

Serendipity needs to see others, not to make her MM jealous or to attempt to force his hand, she needs to see others to widen her horizons, get herself a different perspective on life, and to get out of the hopeless, apparently unending mess she finds herself in.

 

Absolutely. She needs to see others so that she can find someone who truly loves her and brings joy to her life. When that happens, she will wonder why she ever allowed this mm in her life...

[jenkins95]

I don't want to t/j but wow Jenkins. I read your linked post. I can relate to a lot of those feelings. For the women reading this though, I think you are an exception. Most men are fine having an affair. They don't attach like you did. My xmm certainly didn't. I got to see him for a whole year. Not only was he nothing like you described, he was happy. He thought he got away with it. The lying did not bother him at all.

It's good you are not like that though.

 

Hi (((midnight)))

 

Hopefully your post and this reply won't be considered a t/j as I feel the content is quite relevant to the OPs questions.

 

Thank you for reading that old thread. You have been a great support to me since I joined LS - in fact I thought you contributed to that thread at one time! Whether or not you did, I've gained a lot from your posts on here and I will always be grateful for that. Thank you.

 

I often think that in many ways I am like a male version of you. For a start, we both got into an A, caught feelings, considered leaving, ultimately stayed, suffered for many months but are ultimately glad that we are still married and have done a lot of analysis and hard work to understand what our affairs, and affairs in general, are all about. I also find that I am very aligned with you in much of my thinking regarding As, and again this is no surprise considering our own compatible experiences. Here is an example from one of your posts yesterday: -

 

You may be wondering why I stayed. It's not that easy to just leave. People post here how you can split your kids and be happy. It's kind of a lie. It's a big thing to split apart your family, typically you cannot afford to support 2 households. There are not systems in place for the working spouse to take care of the kids when it is her/his turn as they never really did that. They have to go to a job. What are you going to do w the kids? Bring them with you to work? People say daycare, you can't put a 8 year old in daycare and camps are thousands of dollars a month. Money you don't have as you are trying to support 2 households. Where are you going to live? And the other spouse, if they never worked, what are they going to do?

 

I'm 100% with you on that midnight - to add to this, you are running the risk of your kids hating you and especially the AP, forever. Some kids never get over their parents infidelity - my mother didn't. After he walked when she was 10, she probably saw him 10 more times ever until he died 40 years later - up until then she'd been "Daddy's girl". Kids and family is a BIG thing, and to take the decision to blow all that up, one would have to be in a truly awful marriage or selfish beyond words. There are many other reasons to try to stay married too. It is much easier for the single other person to take a "love conquers all" approach and "as long as he loves me, nothing else matters" and midnight's paragraph above would probably come across as very unromantic to those people. But that's what happens when you become involved with a married AP - they HAVE to consider these things. It would be plain irresponsible for the married AP to take a "you only live once" attitude (it's plain irresponsible to get into the A in the first place, but that's another thread!), and an OW/OM should be very cautious if their married AP finds it easy to walk away from their marriage and straight into their arms. When the sh*t hits the fan and the married AP has to make big decisions, he/she is forced to do a cost-benefit analysis, and as long as there is some love for the spouse and especially if there are kids involved, the AP will rarely win that battle - even if strong feelings have developed in the A.

 

Ultimately, I am totally ashamed and furious that I ever put myself in that situation in the first place. Those first few 'innocent' flirtations were so alluring and exciting. I should have run a mile, but I didn't....and lots of people have paid the price for it.

Edited August 2, 2017 by jenkins95

[anika99]

Absolutely. She needs to see others so that she can find someone who truly loves her and brings joy to her life. When that happens, she will wonder why she ever allowed this mm in her life...

 

I agree but sometimes seeing others backfires because as long as the OW is in love and involved with the MM, all other men pale in comparison thereby further cementing the OW's false belief that the MM is the only one for her. I haven't seen too many stories where the OW has found love with another while they were still actively involved with the MM.

[Doublegold]

"Of course women file more often, but that doesn't mean they are more unhappy in marriages"

 

BINGO!

[norudder]

Hi (((midnight)))

 

Hopefully your post and this reply won't be considered a t/j as I feel the content is quite relevant to the OPs questions.

 

Thank you for reading that old thread. You have been a great support to me since I joined LS - in fact I thought you contributed to that thread at one time! Whether or not you did, I've gained a lot from your posts on here and I will always be grateful for that. Thank you.

 

I often think that in many ways I am like a male version of you. For a start, we both got into an A, caught feelings, considered leaving, ultimately stayed, suffered for many months but are ultimately glad that we are still married and have done a lot of analysis and hard work to understand what our affairs, and affairs in general, are all about. I also find that I am very aligned with you in much of my thinking regarding As, and again this is no surprise considering our own compatible experiences. Here is an example from one of your posts yesterday: -

 

 

 

I'm 100% with you on that midnight - to add to this, you are running the risk of your kids hating you and especially the AP, forever. Some kids never get over their parents infidelity - my mother didn't. After he walked when she was 10, she probably saw him 10 more times ever until he died 40 years later - up until then she'd been "Daddy's girl". Kids and family is a BIG thing, and to take the decision to blow all that up, one would have to be in a truly awful marriage or selfish beyond words. There are many other reasons to try to stay married too. It is much easier for the single other person to take a "love conquers all" approach and "as long as he loves me, nothing else matters" and midnight's paragraph above would probably come across as very unromantic to those people. But that's what happens when you become involved with a married AP - they HAVE to consider these things. It would be plain irresponsible for the married AP to take a "you only live once" attitude (it's plain irresponsible to get into the A in the first place, but that's another thread!), and an OW/OM should be very cautious if their married AP finds it easy to walk away from their marriage and straight into their arms. When the sh*t hits the fan and the married AP has to make big decisions, he/she is forced to do a cost-benefit analysis, and as long as there is some love for the spouse and especially if there are kids involved, the AP will rarely win that battle - even if strong feelings have developed in the A.

 

Ultimately, I am totally ashamed and furious that I ever put myself in that situation in the first place. Those first few 'innocent' flirtations were so alluring and exciting. I should have run a mile, but I didn't....and lots of people have paid the price for it.

 

midnight/Jenkins,

 

are you both, as the other poster suggested, truly monogamous minded with more traditional views despite the affair? where you perhaps saw yourself as being comitted if not monogamous in each separate relationship? why did it have to be one or the other?Why did you not want to integrate both partners into your life honestly? was it because your spouse wouldn't be ok with it so you went with it because that gets you the greater benefit in your analysis (family etc) or is monogamy really who you are and you were living unintentionally during A?

[wmacbride]

Op,

the reasons why a mm/mw might choose to stay for their children really don;t matter. They really don't.

 

As unpleasant as it is to say, at the moment a man or woman makes the choice to let an otherwise platonic relationship become an affair, their kids, family, finances, dog, cat, house, lawn, boat, camper, cottage, truck, golf clubs, etc. and any of the other hundreds of reason for why they are "forced" to sty an have o choice to cheat are really just excuses...because at that point in time, they didn't matter, at least not enough to stop them.

 

It's one of the suckiest parts of an affair for all, including, I expect, the ow/om/ .

 

While a ws (ap) may love their bs, kids, family life, or they may love their ow/om, that "love" is not enough to keep them from hurting these people.

 

My spouse has told me that's something he till can't reconcile in his mind. He loves his kids so much ( and I know he does) yet he was still willing to put them at risk by cheating.

 

in your case, your mm is not only putting his own fmaily at risk, but also you, and in effect, your child. I guess it could just be me, but I cna't understand how he can do that to you, not to mention his kids and yours.

[knabe]

We men are more often emotionally immature, we often use the make her end it tactical move. Secondly, admit it or not men have far more to lose in divorce, usually a major shift in the amount of time spent with kids, the amount of money and your address. Of course women file more often, but that doesn't mean they are more unhappy in marriages

 

True. It also doesn't mean they weren't. i think a certain ilk of men like to convince themselves that women are at fault for failed marriages just because they file more. Again, look at why they file.

 

I filed because my husband couldn't keep a job, wouldn't touch me, might have been gay, and was passive aggressive. Was I perfect? no. Did I give a buttload more in marriage than he did?

 

You betcha

 

But some men just need to feel "better." I get it.

Edited August 2, 2017 by knabe

[jenkins95]

My spouse has told me that's something he till can't reconcile in his mind. He loves his kids so much ( and I know he does) yet he was still willing to put them at risk by cheating.

 

This. It's a query I wake up to and go to sleep with every single day.

 

And yet I did it so easily, almost without thought. In fact DELIBERATELY without too much thought - that would have got in the way.

 

Life just doesn't make sense sometimes and as so often in the world, innocent people get hurt.

[Serendipity55]

He messaged me...I'm happy to report I didn't reach out. He just said "are you ok?"

 

In other news...I went out to a fundraiser last night, got chatting to a man, and he's asked if he can take me for dinner. So, small steps. Felt good to meet someone fresh and new, without all this baggage. I'm trying to keep moving forward. I haven't told MM.

[BreakingWave]

He messaged me...I'm happy to report I didn't reach out. He just said "are you ok?"

 

In other news...I went out to a fundraiser last night, got chatting to a man, and he's asked if he can take me for dinner. So, small steps. Felt good to meet someone fresh and new, without all this baggage. I'm trying to keep moving forward. I haven't told MM.

 

Serendipity55,

 

I identify with a lot of what you post and would guess we're in similar emotional states about our xAPs. Did you respond? Mine has also put out the occasional "Hi, are you ok?" after days of not talking. Today is the fifth day though and I... I dunno. I have no idea how I'd respond if she sends an "are you ok?" I guess because I don't know if it's out of actual concern or a desire on their part to hear that we're good so they can feel no guilt.

 

BW

[Serendipity55]

Hi BW...I'm thinking it's more out of guilt or more likely wanting to keep us hooked. They've proven, after all, to be selfish and interested only in their own feelings and how we make them feel as opposed to reflecting on how they make us feel. For example, I did reply. Felt petty ignoring a direct question. I said "I'm OK...Still angry?"...and he's completely ignored that and just asked me generic / everyday questions about me, my daughter, the weather. Weird.

 

I am toying with idea of telling him about my upcoming date but don't want to play games / bring this as yet unsoiled new aspect of my private life into his arena. Tricky.