A MM's story - really resonated with me

[BaileyB]

Surprisingly he's changed it again, just his new baby now. Oh and he told how I have no respect for him or our relationship, we're incompatible (because only he loves me, I don't love him he says), he doesn't feel he can trust me and that I obviously don't have the feelings I thought I did for him otherwise I wouldn't be able to 'open myself up to someone else'. He did have a modicum of self-awareness when he said 'I am a hypocrite'. He's also justifying his belligerence re party by telling me it's because I'm taking a 'love interest' -I am not.

 

He's throwing everything but the kitchen sink at you to try and get to you... To try and get you to apologize and regain control (for him). He's getting desperate - to inflict harm in you so that he can feel better about himself and the situation.

 

Why are you allowing yourself to read this nonsense? Block him already!

 

Does the things he is saying not make you think about what you are doing? Why you became involved with such an a$$ and why in the world you would ever want to be with him again... This should strengthen your resolve to leave him behind you...

[Chica80]

I had to be in situations where we were at the same gathering event. I would avoid if I could. Or go to different parts of the room. Alcohol never helps....it makes it worse.

 

I have asked him before not to come to things if I will be there. Or if he comes, he will go by himself.

[Serendipity55]

So he's said he feels obsessed with me. He said over the last year he thought his priority was his kids but he actually it was me. He then said in my life decisions my kids should be the priority (true) "and me leaving them right now isn't in their interests it's in mine...that means I am not ready to destroy the life I've built for them to be with you. I'm not romantically involved with my W, but I haven't thought about that, I'm thinking about the life we've built and the environment we have for the kids. Right now it works for them. Moment it doesn't I would leave for them".

 

Said he hasn't had sex with W for over 9 months. I know, classic.

 

Keeps saying I can't give you what you want. True, but I don't want to wreck a home.

 

I suppose as long as he's not living a lie and is happy with his W it's not really any of my business. It's tricky because I definitely wouldn't want to deprive kids of their dad but I also think if a home isn't happy then it's better for the kids if the parents live apart. Maybe, I don't know as I haven't any first hand experience of both alternatives.

 

Jenkins - I'd be interested in your take, as an xMM who seemed to love his OW and his W, what you think about his words. Are they just BS or could that be honesty?

 

Everyone else- I'm still going to go on my date and I'm still forward looking despite still, in very dark moments, missing the feelings the MM gave me. So I know I'm being infuriating and weak but I am still processing it all.

[Serendipity55]

Hi,

 

I have had a moment of clarity, thankfully. I think although he's still feeling jealous, because I've engaged with him and he obviously can tell from that I'm still interested in him, he's now gone back to the "I don't love you more but I don't love you less" stuff but "my W is the mother of my kids and that's not fair on you".

 

What?!

 

Also...he's told me, information volunteered by him, he's not had sex for many months (classic) but now is saying he hates discussing the intimacies of his relationship because I wouldn't like it if it were the other way round. This really has annoyed me. It's a disingenuous show of 'respect' for his W but thinly disguised as some sort of kindness towards me (he wouldn't discuss our relationship). So it's fine to have an A but he 'hates' telling me, off his own bat, that he doesn't have sex with his W. I do not understand this logic. Do you?

 

I should add that he has volunteered this information in an attempt to fish information from me about my date...as in in his mind it's a show of his commitment to me so i'll stay true to him.

 

I said lack of sex is probably also to do with fact W has been pregnant, to which three days ago he said "no, has nothing to do with it" and today is saying "pregnancy might have something to do with it". He's just always so inconsistent.

 

He also acknowledged this "hatred" of talking about his marriage was hypocritical because he's a cheater.

 

He just says the strangest things that don't add up in my mind.

 

I can feel myself pulling away from him as I keep thinking "if I ever was his W, this would be my fate". Especially when I've met a man who is seemingly kind and so far seems to have a lot of integrity i.e. things the MM lacks. I'm not saying I'm going to move all of my eggs from one bad basket to another unknown one but it has given me a contrast and I think that's helpful in seeing the MM for what he is (or rather what he isn't).

 

Thanks for reading, this community is a life-saver in so many ways.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Hi,

 

I have had a moment of clarity, thankfully. I think although he's still feeling jealous, because I've engaged with him and he obviously can tell from that I'm still interested in him, he's now gone back to the "I don't love you more but I don't love you less" stuff but "my W is the mother of my kids and that's not fair on you".

 

What?!

 

Also...he's told me, information volunteered by him, he's not had sex for many months (classic) but now is saying he hates discussing the intimacies of his relationship because I wouldn't like it if it were the other way round. This really has annoyed me. It's a disingenuous show of 'respect' for his W but thinly disguised as some sort of kindness towards me (he wouldn't discuss our relationship). So it's fine to have an A but he 'hates' telling me, off his own bat, that he doesn't have sex with his W. I do not understand this logic. Do you?

 

I should add that he has volunteered this information in an attempt to fish information from me about my date...as in in his mind it's a show of his commitment to me so i'll stay true to him.

 

I said lack of sex is probably also to do with fact W has been pregnant, to which three days ago he said "no, has nothing to do with it" and today is saying "pregnancy might have something to do with it". He's just always so inconsistent.

 

He also acknowledged this "hatred" of talking about his marriage was hypocritical because he's a cheater.

 

He just says the strangest things that don't add up in my mind.

 

I can feel myself pulling away from him as I keep thinking "if I ever was his W, this would be my fate". Especially when I've met a man who is seemingly kind and so far seems to have a lot of integrity i.e. things the MM lacks. I'm not saying I'm going to move all of my eggs from one bad basket to another unknown one but it has given me a contrast and I think that's helpful in seeing the MM for what he is (or rather what he isn't).

 

Thanks for reading, this community is a life-saver in so many ways.

 

Basically it is actually really simple, you just don't understand it because you are single. When you are married, it's not that easy to leave. Yes, it is posted here all the time and people do divorce of course but generally speaking, unless you are truly unhappy with your spouse and marriage, you are probably okay in your life. At the same time, he does like you enough, but he knows he can't give you what you want. He is telling you that. Listen to what he is saying. Hear it and believe it.

 

As for the sex stuff, when my xmm was in his sexless marriage, he was very direct about it. Once he started being weird with the confusing talk like your xmm is doing, it was bc he was sleeping with her again and trying to play both sides.

[jenkins95]

Basically it is actually really simple, you just don't understand it because you are single. When you are married, it's not that easy to leave. Yes, it is posted here all the time and people do divorce of course but generally speaking, unless you are truly unhappy with your spouse and marriage, you are probably okay in your life. At the same time, he does like you enough, but he knows he can't give you what you want. He is telling you that. Listen to what he is saying. Hear it and believe it.

 

As for the sex stuff, when my xmm was in his sexless marriage, he was very direct about it. Once he started being weird with the confusing talk like your xmm is doing, it was bc he was sleeping with her again and trying to play both sides.

 

Straight to the point and very wise - that's midnight! And she's quite right.

 

At the end of my A, my OW didn't understand why I couldn't "just leave". But extricating yourself from a long marriage with children, extended family, a house, cars, assets and financial obligations is not easy. When I even started to think about it my mind started to bend at the enormity of it.

 

But here's the thing, if it is a truly awful marriage, they will leave. It happens every day and people recover from it. But if they are wavering, if they are not 100% sure, if the marriage is "okay" as opposed to awful, if they fear losing out financially, losing their home/cars, etc, being hated by family and family-in-law and, in the case of an affair, if they are not 100% that they should be with the AP...and so many other factors...it is far easier to stay. At the end of the day, I realised I still love my wife. I would have been a fool to leave having been given the chance of R.

 

It is rare for a married AP to leave for the other person, and most of us have read the articles that state that the new relationship is unlikely to survive, especially if the APs start a new relationship immediately in the aftermath of the bomb they just dropped without putting in the time to help repair the damage for their family, work on and understand their issues and how they got to this point, and spending some time alone before moving on to the next R. It does happen, but usually in cases where the original marriages were deeply flawed, damaged beyond repair and where the spouses had mentally checked out years before.

[BaileyB]

Hi,

 

I have had a moment of clarity, thankfully. I think although he's still feeling jealous, because I've engaged with him and he obviously can tell from that I'm still interested in him, he's now gone back to the "I don't love you more but I don't love you less" stuff but "my W is the mother of my kids and that's not fair on you".

 

What?!

 

Also...he's told me, information volunteered by him, he's not had sex for many months (classic) but now is saying he hates discussing the intimacies of his relationship because I wouldn't like it if it were the other way round. This really has annoyed me. It's a disingenuous show of 'respect' for his W but thinly disguised as some sort of kindness towards me (he wouldn't discuss our relationship). So it's fine to have an A but he 'hates' telling me, off his own bat, that he doesn't have sex with his W. I do not understand this logic. Do you?

 

I should add that he has volunteered this information in an attempt to fish information from me about my date...as in in his mind it's a show of his commitment to me so i'll stay true to him.

 

I said lack of sex is probably also to do with fact W has been pregnant, to which three days ago he said "no, has nothing to do with it" and today is saying "pregnancy might have something to do with it". He's just always so inconsistent.

 

He also acknowledged this "hatred" of talking about his marriage was hypocritical because he's a cheater.

 

He just says the strangest things that don't add up in my mind.

 

I can feel myself pulling away from him as I keep thinking "if I ever was his W, this would be my fate". Especially when I've met a man who is seemingly kind and so far seems to have a lot of integrity i.e. things the MM lacks. I'm not saying I'm going to move all of my eggs from one bad basket to another unknown one but it has given me a contrast and I think that's helpful in seeing the MM for what he is (or rather what he isn't).

 

Thanks for reading, this community is a life-saver in so many ways.

 

You are starting to see him for the spineless, manipulative man that he is... That is a good thing. The fog is lifting a little...

[wmacbride]

OP,

I may not know much about people, but one thing I do know is that most people won't do something unless they are getting something out of it.

 

What is your mm get6ting by treating you the way he is?

 

What are you getting out of it?

 

Perhaps the most important question of all. Are any of the benefits worth your heartache, confusion and aggravation?

[Serendipity55]

I think I need to do a cost/benefit analysis of my own!! A friend suggested a pro/con list. So I could see all the cons. Thanks for the advice, honesty and support.

[wmacbride]

I think I need to do a cost/benefit analysis of my own!! A friend suggested a pro/con list. So I could see all the cons. Thanks for the advice, honesty and support.

 

 

You sound like you are an analytical and thoughtful person, and, after reading your posts, I get the strong feeling you will work through all of this in a logical fashion, and will benefit from taking the time to do so.

 

If you take that time, you stand a much better chance of feeling good about your decision and knowing it was right for you. Hopefully, you won't have the "what ifs" and can walk away feel confident in your choice.

 

I'm sorry but I have to say it again. You have so much going for you, and I just don't get what you see in this guy. You could do so much better, and not have to waste all this mental energy trying to figure the guy out.

[Serendipity55]

Hi,

 

Thank you for votes of confidence.

 

He came to a thing I was involved in this week, unexpectedly. Afterwards, he told me (unprompted by me) that he does love me more than his W and if didn't have kids would be brave and tell her about me - said he hasn't wanted to say it aloud before now for obvious reasons (previously he's always said he loves us the same because he couldn't compare us because we exist in v different contexts). He didn't ever think he'd feel that way but he does. I don't know how I feel. It changes nothing but it's interesting he's said it. I think I want to believe him (despite it changing nothing) maybe to feel some sort of validation of who I am/was to him. I don't know.

 

I'm sharing this development because it's shaken me a little because it's always what I wanted him to say to me and he never has before - despite me asking him to. He's never said he'll tell me what I want to hear. So it's shaken me a little but I don't want to get carried away. I guess I am posting because I'm still feeling vulnerable.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Serendipity55

[Chica80]

Hi,

 

Thank you for votes of confidence.

 

He came to a thing I was involved in this week, unexpectedly. Afterwards, he told me (unprompted by me) that he does love me more than his W and if didn't have kids would be brave and tell her about me - said he hasn't wanted to say it aloud before now for obvious reasons (previously he's always said he loves us the same because he couldn't compare us because we exist in v different contexts). He didn't ever think he'd feel that way but he does. I don't know how I feel. It changes nothing but it's interesting he's said it. I think I want to believe him (despite it changing nothing) maybe to feel some sort of validation of who I am/was to him. I don't know.

 

I'm sharing this development because it's shaken me a little because it's always what I wanted him to say to me and he never has before - despite me asking him to. He's never said he'll tell me what I want to hear. So it's shaken me a little but I don't want to get carried away. I guess I am posting because I'm still feeling vulnerable.

 

Mone said the same thing. He cares about us both, but differently...Ummmm....

Ok let's say that's true. He loves you he loves her, because you fill different roles in his life.

 

At the end who cares if he loves her and you....he is hurting you both. That's love? To keep you holding on hurting you when he knows you want more?

 

I say this to you because it's what I say to myself.

[DKT3]

Hi,

 

Thank you for votes of confidence.

 

He came to a thing I was involved in this week, unexpectedly. Afterwards, he told me (unprompted by me) that he does love me more than his W and if didn't have kids would be brave and tell her about me - said he hasn't wanted to say it aloud before now for obvious reasons (previously he's always said he loves us the same because he couldn't compare us because we exist in v different contexts). He didn't ever think he'd feel that way but he does. I don't know how I feel. It changes nothing but it's interesting he's said it. I think I want to believe him (despite it changing nothing) maybe to feel some sort of validation of who I am/was to him. I don't know.

 

I'm sharing this development because it's shaken me a little because it's always what I wanted him to say to me and he never has before - despite me asking him to. He's never said he'll tell me what I want to hear. So it's shaken me a little but I don't want to get carried away. I guess I am posting because I'm still feeling vulnerable.

 

What does his actions say...words are easy, they don't require effort, commitment or follow through.

 

Someone once told me "it's scary what you can tell people who really wants to believe what you're saying"

[elaine567]

Take yourself out of the affair context and imagine you are dating.

Would you really put up with a "confused" guy who says I would be with you in an instant but Belinda's boobs are bigger or Belinda has more money or Belinda is more fun, or Belinda is prettier...

 

I guess not, but although "kids" are a more serious reason to choose his wife, the principle is the same, just like the "confused" guy above -

HE IS NOT CHOOSING YOU, his priorities are elsewhere.

YOU are just not "enough" for him to choose you to be his #1.

 

Forget "love" it is absolutely meaningless...

[Serendipity55]

Wow, Elaine, that really struck a chord. So insightful and incisive as ever.

 

You're right, love isn't enough and so it doesn't change anything that he's now told me he loves me more, it's me who he feels closer to, wants more, etc. I suspected this was happening as how he was behaving towards me has gradually changed...so I felt his love was growing. He said to me "I love you truly, madly, deeply and I am desperately in love with you but it's not enough and I know that".

 

HOWEVER, as you so rightly point out, he's also been very honest that above me comes his kids. He doesn't want to change his life (to be with me) because he will have to share his kids (as in joint custody). He wants to be in their lives 100%. He's also said he's not irrevocably unhappy with his W so they can work as a partnership in creating a nurturing environment for their kids. I understand, objectively, that this is the right thing to do. He has a responsibility to them (kids) to stay there and be a family. I wouldn't have liked it if my Dad had left me when I was a child for another woman who wasn't my mum - who knows the damage it could do.

 

He's also said that although it will hurt him deeply to see me move on he can't promise me anything and so it is unfair of him to try and keep me. He said he does want me to be happy.

 

I feel there's truth in what he is saying because he is being honest and it would be in his better interests to future fake, etc.

 

I don't see it as necessarily choosing his W...he can't choose his kids and not choose her. She comes as part of the package - package being able to see his kids all the time and not 50% of the time.

Edited August 12, 2017 by Serendipity55

[Tamari]

Wow, Elaine, that really struck a chord. So insightful and incisive as ever.

 

You're right, love isn't enough and so it doesn't change anything that he's now told me he loves me more, it's me who he feels closer to, wants more, etc. I suspected this was happening as how he was behaving towards me has gradually changed...so I felt his love was growing. He said to me "I love you truly, madly, deeply and I am desperately in love with you but it's not enough and I know that".

 

HOWEVER, as you so rightly point out, he's also been very honest that above me comes his kids. He doesn't want to change his life (to be with me) because he will have to share his kids (as in joint custody). He wants to be in their lives 100%. He's also said he's not irrevocably unhappy with his W so they can work as a partnership in creating a nurturing environment for their kids. I understand, objectively, that this is the right thing to do. He has a responsibility to them (kids) to stay there and be a family. I wouldn't have liked it if my Dad had left me when I was a child for another woman who wasn't my mum - who knows the damage it could do.

 

He's also said that although it will hurt him deeply to see me move on he can't promise me anything and so it is unfair of him to try and keep me. He said he does want me to be happy.

 

I feel there's truth in what he is saying because he is being honest and it would be in his better interests to future fake, etc.

 

I don't see it as necessarily choosing his W...he can't choose his kids and not choose her. She comes as part of the package - package being able to see his kids all the time and not 50% of the time.

 

Hi Serendipity!

 

I hear you. But still! Read again what Elaine said... it just isn't cutting it, is it?

 

I know so many divorced men who left their spouse because the marriage wasn't going anywhere, was not fulfilling etc etc and who continue to be there for their children. And that is without another woman in the picture. My own partner was one such man but there are many of them around.

 

In your mm's case... apparently the marriage is NOT so bad as to warrant leaving, so logically the question then would be: what on earth is he doing jeopardising that 'not so bad' relationship by bringing you into the mix?

 

Add to that the fact that it leaves you wanting and confused, somebody he professes to care for as well!

 

To be blunt, it simply does'nt add up. Or does it?

[lostintheuk]

How old are the children Serendipity?

[elaine567]

I feel there's truth in what he is saying because he is being honest and it would be in his better interests to future fake, etc.

I am not sure that in the circumstances it would actually.

He knows he is going nowhere and he knows that you know too, so it would not look good for him to "future fake" now as that would show him up to be a liar and a fantasist.

 

I think he may have one of two motivations here, 1) to keep you around as his OW or 2) to actually persuade you to leave with the least upset.

 

1) If he wants to persuade you to stay in the OW role, then he needs a hook and what better than the "I love you so much but I am in an impossible situation".

ALSO "I am such a decent chap that I am willing to let you go for your own happiness", may just be a "trick" - noble self sacrifice can be a very attractive quality and may be the very thing that persuades you to stay.

"I am willing to sacrifice my life for him and he was willing to sacrifice his life for me."

Only as it usually pans out you sacrifice YOUR life and he just carries on as normal...

 

2)If he wants you to leave with little upset for him, then letting you go for your own good, in the secure knowledge that he loves you oodles and would never do this if he had a free choice, is usually better than letting you go because he just doesn't want you.

OWs who have been unceremoniously dumped can be loose cannons and are often capable of anything - he won't want that.

[anika99]

How old are the children Serendipity?

 

Back in feb the OP stated that the MM's wife was pregnant and I think she also said he had a very young daughter. His wife must have recently given birth, she's taking care of an infant and a pre-schooler and poor MM isn't getting the sex and attention at home that he feels entitled to.

 

No way do I believe this guy values his children. There is nothing honorable or noble about cheating on your children's other parent. Even if the affair is not discovered the lying and emotional disconnect in the home causes pain and strife to the betrayed spouse which then creates an unhappy atmosphere for the kids. People who are truly devoted to their kids would never do that to them.

[Chica80]

i am not sure that in the circumstances it would actually.

He knows he is going nowhere and he knows that you know too, so it would not look good for him to "future fake" now as that would show him up to be a liar and a fantasist.

 

I think he may have one of two motivations here, 1) to keep you around as his ow or 2) to actually persuade you to leave with the least upset.

 

1) if he wants to persuade you to stay in the ow role, then he needs a hook and what better than the "i love you so much but i am in an impossible situation".

Also "i am such a decent chap that i am willing to let you go for your own happiness", may just be a "trick" - noble self sacrifice can be a very attractive quality and may be the very thing that persuades you to stay.

"i am willing to sacrifice my life for him and he was willing to sacrifice his life for me."

only as it usually pans out you sacrifice your life and he just carries on as normal...

 

2)if he wants you to leave with little upset for him, then letting you go for your own good, in the secure knowledge that he loves you oodles and would never do this if he had a free choice, is usually better than letting you go because he just doesn't want you.

Ows who have been unceremoniously dumped can be loose cannons and are often capable of anything - he won't want that.

 

truth!!!!!

[Birdies]

Ok so he "loves you more" (now that he thinks he might be losing you to your friend guy) but he can't leave his kids.

 

What do you want to do with that information? Are you content being an oW forever, or until he gets tired of the juggling act, or maybe seeing his world implode one day and having him suddenly throw you under the bus? You're right, he's not future faking. So do you deserve more than a few stolen moments with someone else's husband? Do you kids deserve a healthy relationship role model?

[Serendipity55]

He's asked me to not leave or end it - he wants us to get back together but realises that is selfish of him because I want more than he is willing to give. However, he still maintains he would like to carry on our relationship so I don't think he's telling me this so I'll go. I did that and he wouldn't leave it alone.

 

I think he probably values himself above all, his kids included. It's in his best interests to stay put because he wants to see his children every day. I also think fact his marriage isn't awful and he doesn't feel it's a toxic environment means he wouldn't leave it - as in it's not affecting his kids at the moment. They are very young - toddler and newborn.

 

I don't think leaving for another woman is ever a great idea. If he left I would want it to be because he was unhappy. I wouldn't want to break up a happy family.

 

He says he's not intimate with his W and hasn't been for 10 months. He says it's because I'm in the marriage now and he doesn't want to sleep with her. More likely it's to do with pregnancy etc, I'm not completely naive.

 

He said if it comes out he will have to deal with the consequences and he would never ever throw me under a bus and would not cut me out. I guess also easy to say...

[Birdies]

I think you've got a good read on where this guy is coming from. (Although I don't buy that if push came to shove, he would sacrifice himself for you - that's clearly not his MO at all. Like you said, talk is cheap.)

 

Ok but this whole post was about him. Who cares about what he wants or thinks. What do YOU want? In your heart of hearts, what do you think is the right decision for you and your children?

Edited August 12, 2017 by Birdies
Typos

[BaileyB]

Indeed, your whole post is about him and what he wants...

 

What do you want? You say that you don't want to break up his marriage but he has clearly told you - by his words and actions - that he has no intention of leaving. So, by continuing to be engaged with this MM in any way, you are indeed doing exactly what you say that you don't want to do...

 

He's throwing himself such a pity party... He loves you more, but he can't be with you because of the kids, but his wife won't have sex with him...

 

My heart breaks for you. I wish that you would spend as much time dreaming about your future and the future you want to create for your daughter than you do trying to figure out what this guy is thinking/wants/is happening in his marriage.

 

It's time to move on. For you, for your daughter...

Edited August 12, 2017 by BaileyB

[Chica80]

He's asked me to not leave or end it - he wants us to get back together but realises that is selfish of him because I want more than he is willing to give. However, he still maintains he would like to carry on our relationship so I don't think he's telling me this so I'll go. I did that and he wouldn't leave it alone.

 

I think he probably values himself above all, his kids included. It's in his best interests to stay put because he wants to see his children every day. I also think fact his marriage isn't awful and he doesn't feel it's a toxic environment means he wouldn't leave it - as in it's not affecting his kids at the moment. They are very young - toddler and newborn.

 

I don't think leaving for another woman is ever a great idea. If he left I would want it to be because he was unhappy. I wouldn't want to break up a happy family.

 

He says he's not intimate with his W and hasn't been for 10 months. He says it's because I'm in the marriage now and he doesn't want to sleep with her. More likely it's to do with pregnancy etc, I'm not completely naive.

 

He said if it comes out he will have to deal with the consequences and he would never ever throw me under a bus and would not cut me out. I guess also easy to say...

 

OP I feel like I could have written your story. I didn't always "relate" to other posters. I felt mine was "different" but I could have written all these things.....which means it's not "different"

 

I heard this talk once, can't remember who it was, but it said men cheat to stay married. Meaning you in a way add to his marraige. Your MM prob does love you he prob does care for you the thing is, he"s not going to leave. Why should he. He gets his needs met while you remain.

 

Funny story, mm had asked me a while ago if I've ever read The giving tree. Ive never read it. I looked it up and asked my kids. (It's a children's book) Apparently it's about a tree she loves a boy, and she gives and gives of herself to the boy what he needs till she is only a stump. (That's the synopsis I read, if there's more I don't know) Anyways I said no never read it. He said I thought you would like it your kind of book. Why because I'm a giver or taker? Giver he said......

 

The point I'm trying to make is....I we OW give give and he takes. He takes from his wife he takes from you so he gets what he needs and you are left a stump.