A MM's story - really resonated with me

[elaine567]

I think introducing the kids is just another form of future faking.

"Get to know my kids as one day you will be their step mother..."

It strengthens the bonding of the OP to him.

"He must think a lot of me if he is introducing me to his kids, and if he is "melting" when he sees me with them, he must therefore be seriously thinking that we WILL be together one day..."

 

I think he may be a guy who uses people like pawns in a game.

[BaileyB]

I think he may be a guy who uses people like pawns in a game.

 

And there is nothing worse than using your children as a pawn...

 

He uses his children to absolve his guilt for the fact that he is engaged in an inappropriate relationships. He stays "because he loves his children," which somehow makes it more acceptable for him to carry-on with a woman who is not their mother. After all, he's not "that man" who has an affair and then leaves his family for the other woman...

 

And clearly, he's not above using his own children to manipulate you, OP.

[anika99]

And there is nothing worse than using your children as a pawn...

 

He uses his children to absolve his guilt for the fact that he is engaged in an inappropriate relationships. He stays "because he loves his children," which somehow makes it more acceptable for him to carry-on with a woman who is not their mother. After all, he's not "that man" who has an affair and then leaves his family for the other woman...

 

And clearly, he's not above using his own children to manipulate you, OP.

 

True but one of the OP's first posts on this forum was about how she was hurt and upset that he wouldn't let her be around his older child. Then he changed his mind when the OP tried to go no contact. The OP wanted to meet the child, probably to get a chance to prove to the MM that his kid would like her and she would thereby score some brownie points with him. Which is what happened. Sadly they have both used his innocent unknowing child as a pawn in their affair.

 

OP this competition you are in with his wife is really unfair and unbalanced as you know you are competing but his wife doesn't even know there is a competition. Where's the fun in winning an unfair competition? It's like trying to gloat when you beat someone to work but they didn't even know they were in a race with you. You should tell his wife and make it a fair fight.

[Serendipity55]

I'm in danger of being stuck but I'm not yet, which I why I post on here. To get perspective.

 

I agree he's selfish, loves himself more, etc but I rationally I can't see how he can possibly love his W more given his actions towards her. He calls he 'ancillary' and if she wasn't the mum he'd leave her. He cares for her yes but he says it's because she's the mother of his children. If it was just her he wouldn't be in the relationship. That's not love in my view and if that's what you people think qualifies as love that's pretty depressing. Now I know you'll say "he could divorce her" and of course he could and I see that but he's terrified of losing his children and sharing them and if he leaves her that happens. I truly think that if he loved her more he wouldn't treat her like he does. I also truly believe that if he loved me more he wouldn't treat me like he does.

 

SO looking at his actions only, I think it's clear he loves himself the most. We're just pawns to him, 'used' to fulfil different needs, neither one respected enough to be his only woman (as it should be).

 

He's told me he'll not leave his children and he's also told me he still loves his W. He's not the sort of person to sugar coat. He used to tell me he loved her more and she was love of his life at the outset and that he felt he should be with her. That's when he was wanting to attract me into the affair. He said that and I still got involved. A sad reflection on me. As time went on his feelings changed and he told me when they did. Not when I left him, there wasn't a correlation there.

[minimariah]

I'm in danger of being stuck but I'm not yet...

 

you ARE stuck.

 

that's why you're here.

 

I agree he's selfish, loves himself more, etc but I rationally I can't see how he can possibly love his W more given his actions towards her.

 

again - why does it matter...? can't you see that "i love you more than XY" is an INSULT to you...? a love statement that includes someone else - that's insulting. it seems as if his love for you cannot exist with the wife - the worst part... i don't know why you keep thinking od that statement as some kind of triump and victory. why do you keep comparing and competing with her...? it's like you desperately need reassurance that you're better than her and more important ro him and that the kids are the ONLY thing she has an advantage at - is that why you wanted to meet his children...? so you could catch up with that advantage and creep onto yet another role she has in his life - the one of The Mother?

 

Now I know you'll say "he could divorce her" and of course he could and I see that but he's terrified of losing his children and sharing them and if he leaves her that happens.

 

he's terrified of losing his kids and sharing them...? REALLY? this dude - who spends his nights with you when he has a newborn at home... he obviously isn't a good parent and isn't a hands-on father; HE is terrified of losing them? why would he be terrified of losing and sharing them when he doesn't spend enough time with them NOW? he doesn't do anything extraordinary as a parent, at all. it is his wife who is a stay at home parent and who spends the most time with the kids - isn't that right...?

 

why do you blindly trust those statements...? someone who is soooooo terrififed of even SHARING his children spends his every second with said children. he's not terrified of sharing - he just can't cope with the guilt of leaving 1st, that's it. it's like no one explained to this dude that kids have TWO PARENTS and that you share them right from the start - that's something you learn when you're a good parent who spends quality time with those kids. so i'm really confused as to why is he terrified of sharing - especially when he dedicated his free time to YOU and not to them NOW. surely, it would have been the same with the 50% custody, so how come is that a problem?

Edited August 15, 2017 by minimariah

[pheonixrisen]

I think introducing the kids is just another form of future faking.

"Get to know my kids as one day you will be their step mother..."

It strengthens the bonding of the OP to him.

"He must think a lot of me if he is introducing me to his kids, and if he is "melting" when he sees me with them, he must therefore be seriously thinking that we WILL be together one day..."

 

I think he may be a guy who uses people like pawns in a game.

 

This

 

That's exactly how he comes across .

 

He will use anyone and everyone to get what he wants

 

Op I know this not the topic of discussion

But you have mentioned you have a child ...if you have asked to meet his than you have introduced yours ...i would think single mothers would be more protective of their child and be careful about the kind of people we bring in thier life .aren't unavailable mm exactly the kind of men we are suppose to be teaching our dd to stay away from .aren't their minds fragile to what they are seeing and learning already

 

Also have you considered this

 

Because you come across as a person who enjoys when he says you mean more/i love you more and you actually have mentioned it literally in all your post ....that you constantly ask him this constantly question constantly need reassurance

 

That he actually says it to shut you up.so you can get on with other things that he enjoys ..but to you its like a life line .

 

Because of a man really loves you more .why does he not leave

Edited August 15, 2017 by pheonixrisen

[Serendipity55]

Yes, I see what you mean. It should just be "I love you". I do want that and I know to get there I have to want more for myself. Argh. I'm so fed up with reading what I write and thinking "what a pathetic person".

 

He doesn't spend much of his free time with me. It's usually once a month (because I have limited free time too and I don't want to see him more than that) and it is always (bar once) during the week and in the evenings. So he does prioritise his children.

[elaine567]

He doesn't spend much of his free time with me. It's usually once a month (because I have limited free time too and I don't want to see him more than that) and it is always (bar once) during the week and in the evenings. So he does prioritise his children.

 

OK so he stops by once a month for his "jollies" and you actually believe he loves you more...

[Serendipity55]

Yes, he's met my DD. He kissed me in front of her. She's only 15 months old but I was really cross about that but I still didn't say anything to him. I don't know why - i've only just stopped to think of that.

 

I wonder if I've been so caught up and focussed on having him say what I want him to I've allowed so many lines to be crossed. It's like I've been locked in a one-person competition. He's asked me why I compare myself. I think it's natural but perhaps not to the extent I've got caught up in it.

 

It probably speaks to low self-esteem and self-confidence. Despite being successful in my life I've always suffered with this. It's something I don't really know how to change. But that's another topic.

 

I think I have constantly pushed him and I asked him if he said what he did to 'shut me up' and he said if he'd had wanted to do that he'd have told me months ago. He always refused to tell me something he didn't feel just to keep me hanging on. He wouldn't do it. I even asked him 'just tell me what I want to hear' and he said he wouldn't do that. So I don't think his 'motivation' was to 'shut me up'. But equally I accept that if he loved me more he would leave to be with me.

[Serendipity55]

Elaine...he wants to see me more, I don't. I always say no. He wants to see me weekly or more (for lunch) but obviously is more constricted recently as he has a newborn and toddler. He is angry with me at the moment because feels I don't make an effort to see him and he always comes to me - he feels I should go to him more and I should make more effort. He feels I never ask him how he is and I am self-centred.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Serendipity55

[minimariah]

Yes, I see what you mean. It should just be "I love you".

 

EXACTLY!

 

you want to hear - Serendipity, i love you.

 

that's it. a love statement. his love statement is basically a "good job, Serendipity! FINALLY, you managed to surpass the wife!" - i mean... that's a very disturbing way to express love towards someone. also, it's disturbing how HE keeps comparing you & the wife, even the children. so you're more important than the wife but not more important than the children - what's up with the comparing?! why the constant comparison?

 

So he does prioritise his children.

 

but he doesn't - he sees you once a month because that's what you want. if it was up to him, he'd see you more often... on weekly basis, isn't that right? + he introduced you to his child AND had a night out while letting his wife deal with the newborn and a toddler. bad parents aren't bad all the time - they're bad only about 10% of the time... so just because he does some things where he seemingly prioritises his kids... doesn't mean that they actually ARE a priority to them. his fear of losing them and sharing them also isn't backed up by his actions - if that fear was REAL, he wouldn't be having an A at all because he'd be scared of the wife finding out about out, leaving and taking the kids. so the fear is exaggerated & is covering up something deeper.

 

also - two ways of manipulating in the A.

1. future faking

2. manipulating with the truth. he might have used this second thing as tactic. so now he is switching it up out of fear of losing you. just because he is honest - it does not mean that he isn't trying to manipulate you. you CAN manipulate with being honest and open.

 

about his love for you - i find it interesting how you described his love for his wife as something that's not really love... something that you don't think anyone would describe as love because he is treating you so horribly. i think the same but about his love for you - he is treating you horribly, not respecting you and humiliating you with constant comparisons and so on... what you have right now is not something ANYBODY dreams of having when they're kids.

[BaileyB]

I can't see how he can possibly love his W more given his actions towards her. He calls he 'ancillary' and if she wasn't the mum he'd leave her. He cares for her yes but he says it's because she's the mother of his children. If it was just her he wouldn't be in the relationship. That's not love in my view and if that's what you people think qualifies as love that's pretty depressing?

 

He's told me he still loves his W. He's not the sort of person to sugar coat. He used to tell me he loved her more and she was love of his life at the outset and that he felt he should be with her.

 

Those are your own words. Those are his own words.

 

Serendipity, you seem desperate for love and validation. Whether that is related to the loss of your husband, or just who you are, or what you want from this man given the situation... You are hanging around because you get something from this. You must like having him chase you, you are still hoping to "win" him, you like hearing the words, I don't know...

 

I have said, we have said, that he is no prize. He is a liar. He has cheated on his wife and left her home to care for their two young children, alone. He has said things about his wife, the mother of his children, that you have described as cruel. He has used his children as pawns in this little game he is playing... He manipulates you and exploits your hope and vulnerability to keep you stuck in a relationship that serves his purpose, that is not in your best interest.

 

To quote you dear heart, "that's not love in my view, and if that's what you think qualifies as love then that's pretty depressing." If this is really the kind of man to whom you want to trust your heart, trust your life and your daughter's life, and trust with your future... Well... There is not much more that we can do or say.

 

Yes Serendipity, you are very much stuck.

[freengreen]

We all are self centered, only the radius differs.

 

Your guy dosnt seem to have a raduis at all.. he is the centre point and thats that.. everyone is outside the point...

 

I dont know what to say be ause you have decided to take his side, there is nothing much one can say. Sigh.

[BaileyB]

He's asked me why I compare myself.

 

But equally I accept that if he loved me more he would leave to be me.

 

It's the nature of the business. Could it be that he has told you constantly - that he loves his children and his wife more than you?

 

And if your end game is that you want him to leave his wife to be with you, for that to happen, clearly he needs to... Love you more.

 

That's not rocket science. He really doesn't understand why you compare yourself with his wife...

[wmacbride]

op,

I'm not sure if you aware of it or not, but your mm really sounds like he knows just how to push your buttons and position you so that you feel in competition with his wife.

 

 

In his own words, he pits you against her by comparing you two. Meanwhile, he just sits back and watches you waste huge amounts of time and emotional energy thinking about him and your relationship with him.

 

It sounds to me like you are a single parent who works hard to provide a good home for her child. Why would you let him have any place in that? What, exactly, is it that he brings to the table? Are things things "real" or are you seeing what you want to see?

[wmacbride]

this is... disturbing. let's use logic for a second & be rational - this child has a mother and it is NOT you. so why would seeing the child with you DEEPEN his feelings...? obviously - you'll be kind and nice with EVERY child you meet, that's just how normal people are. kids are cute, you play with them, make them smile and they make you smile... i mean... how are his feelings related to seeing you with his own child you're a complete stranger to...? it's incredibly odd.

 

and i'm not sure how did the entire "i love you more than XY" go - did you ask him that...? so he responded with a yes? or did he say that on his own...? because i find it really weird to involve someone else into a love statement. like, i literally cannot imagine telling my husband - i love you more than XY.

 

a simple "i love you" would have been more than enough. i find it problematic the fact that he (or you) had to clarify with using the wife as some kind of starting point.

 

I do too, but the reason he does it is pretty obvious. It builds a sense of competition and has the op doing the"pick me" dance.

 

It sounds very much like she is someone who is accomplished, educated and could have her pick of guys. It probably inflates his ego to no end to know that he has her head spinning, all while having his wife and kids at home.

 

some people, in spite of outward appearances, are very "broken" inside. he sounds like a user.

[elaine567]

The problem with the " he is user, he is a manipulator" stance is that I guess the OP may not be above pulling her own tricks here.

 

He has met my girl. We have mutual friends who we used to see together but now separately because he is worried they will see what is really going on between us. These friends have all met his daughter.

 

I still haven't because he feels it is not fair on his wife. I'm trying not to react selfishly to this but it does hurt, especially because I can't understand the moral standpoint on this issue when he is doing what he is doing...

 

How did you manage to persuade him to change his mind from hiding his daughter from you, as it was "not fair on his wife" to him agreeing to it and getting all gooey when he saw the two of you together...

[Serendipity55]

I didn't Elaine. He said he didn't like not being a part of each other's lives and not knowing each other's children.

[Serendipity55]

It's the nature of the business. Could it be that he has told you constantly - that he loves his children and his wife more than you?

 

And if your end game is that you want him to leave his wife to be with you, for that to happen, clearly he needs to... Love you more.

 

That's not rocket science. He really doesn't understand why you compare yourself with his wife...

 

 

Hi...

 

He hasn't told me ever that he loves his W more than me. It's always been "I love you the same, no difference in the strength of feeling" and now it's changed. He has told me many times he loves his kids more than either of us.

 

He understands why I compare myself but doesn't feel I should because of the lines he used to always main "love you the same".

[Serendipity55]

I don't think I am taking his side...not intentionally.

[BaileyB]

Hi...

 

He hasn't told me ever that he loves his W more than me. It's always been "I love you the same, no difference in the strength of feeling" and now it's changed. He has told me many times he loves his kids more than either of us.

 

He understands why I compare myself but doesn't feel I should because of the lines he used to always main "love you the same".

 

My apology. I was incorrect.

 

How are you doing today Serendipity? There was much discussion yesterday, lots to think about and process... With the best of intentions, we all kind of burst your bubble after he told you that he loved you more. I hope that you are doing alright.

[sandylee1]

The best way for you to get this MM full time, is to tell his wife about the A and that you were seeing him while she was pregnant and that you've met her daughter and were playing with her.

 

Tell her why her husband introduced you to their daughter and that he's met your DD.

 

Let her know that while she had the new baby son as home, he was out while she was calling him (working late).

[Serendipity55]

Hi BaileyB,

 

Thanks for asking how I am.

 

I'm OK. I do feel silly for believing him and feeling a sense of 'something might be happening' and a sense of calm. I worry he said it so I'd allow him back to mine etc. Although he was already at mine when he said.

 

I told him I was questioning the veracity of what he said. It didn't go down well. He always says I question his feelings and when I do it belittles his feelings. He says it was a massive thing to say and admit to himself and he's p*ssed with me for questioning him.

 

He says it's an issue I've created in my head, based on what I've told myself (or in reality, unknown to him, what I've been told here). It's not his issue. He then said he has issues with me i.e. me not putting in enough effort, never even leaving my area to see him (not true) and never asking how he is / how he feels. He said he's just trying to put one foot in front of the other and get through the days (that's exactly, verbatim, what I said to him a few weeks ago - seems odd he'd repeat exact same line to me).

[Serendipity55]

Sandylee - I think getting him would be a poisoned chalice.

[Starswillshine]

Hi BaileyB,

 

Thanks for asking how I am.

 

I'm OK. I do feel silly for believing him and feeling a sense of 'something might be happening' and a sense of calm. I worry he said it so I'd allow him back to mine etc. Although he was already at mine when he said.

 

I told him I was questioning the veracity of what he said. It didn't go down well. He always says I question his feelings and when I do it belittles his feelings. He says it was a massive thing to say and admit to himself and he's p*ssed with me for questioning him.

 

He says it's an issue I've created in my head, based on what I've told myself (or in reality, unknown to him, what I've been told here). It's not his issue. He then said he has issues with me i.e. me not putting in enough effort, never even leaving my area to see him (not true) and never asking how he is / how he feels. He said he's just trying to put one foot in front of the other and get through the days (that's exactly, verbatim, what I said to him a few weeks ago - seems odd he'd repeat exact same line to me).

 

All those things are manipulation. You question him and he turns it around on you. "How can you question my feelings."