Are the kids a valid reason to stay in M?

[fiohna]

Everyone on here says MM will never leave his W, but what about in cases where kids are involved?

 

MM is delaying divorce because he isn't ready to put his two kids through the divorce process. They are 4 and 7. He says he's not ready to change their home life and the stability they have.

 

But I've also read on here that MM stays because he WANTS to stay married to HER for a spectrum of reasons, even if the relationship is over and the marriage is just on paper.

 

So is it ever really just about the kids? Or is it a matter of both the kids AND the W?

 

Are kids a valid reason to stay? To me, if you want out, you get out, kids or no kids. But I'm also a single OW so I wouldn't know what it's like to consider divorce with kids involved.

 

OW - did/is your MM staying *just* for the kids?

 

MM - is the kids ever really the *sole* reason to stay married?

 

MW/MOW would love your thoughts too.

Edited July 31, 2017 by fiohna

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Just so we are clear ... you want to break up the family of 2 small children? Is that correct?

[starswewillnavigate]

I think it's a (valid) excuse but still an excuse. There are those who have affairs to stay IN a marriage (guess those are the cake eaters, will say whatever their ap wants to hear but will never leave) who like their situation but want a little extra; those who want to get OUT of a relationship (taxi out with their ap and deal with the consequence); sex addicts who can't control anything.

[somanymistakes]

It's complicated. There are always reasons to stay in and always reasons to go. There are always reasons to think now is the wrong time for the kids and always reasons to think now is the best time for the kids.

 

Like, imagine the kids are teenagers. On the one hand, it's much easier to explain to them what's going on, and you have no risk of them just forgetting about you, and it's easy to arrange things to do with them on shared time, so it's the ideal time to leave right? Except that they're ALMOST ready to move out on their own, isn't it unfair to disrupt their lives now? Isn't it unfair to burn up what should be their college funds dealing with a divorce and establishing a new household? And teens are so judgemental, they may be really mean to you when they find out about your affair... wouldn't it be so much easier to keep quiet?

 

Unless the spouse is actively abusive or something, it is ALWAYS "so much easier" to keep quiet and maintain the status quo of cake.

 

Personally I would think it would be hardest with the really small children, the under-fives for whom it's hard to explain what's going on at all, the ones who will break down and cry all the time when one parent or the other isn't there, the ones that require a LOT of care arrangements to look after them on your custody time if you're splitting it. We've seen divorced parents (usually fathers) posting on this forum worrying about whether they are ruining their children's psyches permanently by trying to juggle the 50/50 which appears so horribly traumatic to the crying children... wondering if they should just give up and drop back to being nothing but the every-other-weekend babysitter, wondering if they should just give up entirely... i mean some fathers just don't want to deal with their kids, but there are also sad fathers who are afraid that their existence hurts their kids. It's rough.

 

On the other hand I hear some people claim that if you can manage an amicable divorce when the kid is super young then the kid will simply grow up thinking this is normal and have much less trauma about it all. Who knows?

 

Imagine that the kid has just gone through some sort of horrible trauma. Some parents will try to hide their own problems to present a united front to help the kid through, even if they'd been actively talking about divorce before that.

 

And of course there are fathers who are afraid they will lose access to their kids in a divorce when their cheating becomes known.

 

The important thing to recognise is that in most of these cases it isn't just about the kid's sake, it's about his sake, it's about what he's afraid he'll lose or suffer with regards to the kids.

 

Has he told his BS that he's having an affair but wants to stay together for the kids? Usually not.

[elaine567]

There are so many different reasons for having in affair but "I want to leave my marriage" is not a common one for most men (or for some women either).

 

We have had MM come on here and say they were totally shocked to find the OW took the affair to mean he was actually thinking of leaving his wife.

He may have told his OW he loved her (and he did "in a way"), he may have engaged in some future faking with her, but his intention was never to actually walk out on his wife and kids and he thought his OW knew that...

 

Whether your MM is staying for the kids, for his wife, for tradition, for his nest egg, for his house, his friends, his status, or the family dog... or a combination of reasons, it is all irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that he is not leaving.

He has just told you that.

If he is not leaving when the kids are 4 and 7, do you honestly think he may leave at 10 and 13, or 13 and 16, or even 23 and 26, there is no good time to leave kids. Every age group has its issues and the effects of parent's divorcing can be devastating on any age group.

 

For those men who take the institution of marriage deadly seriously, they will not move.

They may have affair after affair, they may be miserable, they may spend their lives moaning about their marriage to anyone who will listen, but they know ultimately where their bread is best buttered and they stay put.

He will do what is best for himself and those he holds dear.

 

He sees men ruined financially by divorce, men juggling multiple warring wives and even more kids to pay for, he sees men in seedy apartments desperate to see their kids for a few hours at the weekends, he sees lonely divorced men drinking themselves to oblivion... and he doesn't want that.

 

Men who marry are often pretty traditional in their thinking, so they do not want to uproot themselves again once they have made the huge decision to marry and set up a home in the first place.

[QuestioningSoul]

One of the main reasons I'm staying in my marriage as the BS (other than the fact my husband begged me to give him the chance to be the husband I deserved- cue eyeroll) is because of my children. They are older. Almost to college age, and I still consider them more than myself. I want them to at least go off to college and be away from home and have a chance to be prepared for life - before I totally change their lives. IF I totally change their lives, that is.

 

Yes, it's a valid reason, but you're never going to get the answer you want. They might be very amicable inside thier home. They might agree to give the kids the best possible life in the situation they're in. He might have never wanted to leave her. He might just want some distraction to his hum drum life. They might hate each other. They might wish everyday that they never got married or had a family with each other. They might have sex everyday and laugh constantly.

 

It doesn't matter. What matters is what is actually happening at the moment. That's it. Don't spend your life waiting on something that might never happen. if he wants to raise his kids, then let him. Take yourself out of the triangle and wish him and his kids the best. I bet you a dollar he'll find a replacement AP. Yes, sometimes it really is true love (and they make a real relationship happen if that's the case) and sometimes it's just a selfish man who wants more. Wants different. Wants to hear how wanted he is. Wants to see how he's so wonderful a woman is willing to wait, sometimes for years while he goes about his life in the meantime. It's quite the aphrodisiac to have a woman willing to give so much for so little. He must be super awesome!

 

Kids are and should be important. If someone is willing to damage their kids to get what they want, is that the type of person you want?

[BaileyB]

Exactly, do you really want to be the person who caused the breakup of a family - with two small kids? Are you really that kind of person...

 

As is often discussed, men will often say that they will not leave their marriage because of the children. It sounds really good - he's the devoted father who is deserving of your trust but the long suffering husband, who needs your love and attention... But, it's often more complicated that that.

 

The honest truth is that men stay because it is in their best interest to do so... They enjoy the comfort and stability that their wives and children provide. They may stay for their wife - despite what he may tell you, there must have been some reason why he chose to marry this woman, have children, and build a life together. But more likely, divorce causes a significant financial loss and most men want to maintain the standard of living they enjoy with their wives. There is not much incentive to lose full custody of the children and have to pay child/spousal support when a man leaves a marriage. And then there is his reputation with his children, family, friends, community... not many people want to be known as the man who left his wife and family for another woman.

 

As you can see, there is a lot to lose if a man leaves his marriage for another woman... which is probably why most men chose to keep the comfort and stability of their family AND have a woman on the side to provide the sex, ego boost, and excitement that they want in their lives. The sad reality is, there are often women willing to assume this position - with nothing more in return than some attention, affection, and empty promises...

 

And, as Elaine has said, many come in this board in disbelief that women have taken their words of love and promises that they will be together "someday" seriously, because they never had any intention of leaving their wives and their family. Whatever the reason he chooses to stay, the fact of the matter that you must understand is... He is choosing to stay.

Edited July 31, 2017 by BaileyB

[Eight]

I think others have covered it well here.

I will add that anyone's reason for anything is "valid"; to them. What you or I think doesn't matter. For him, it's a valid reason.

 

You have a valid reason for seeing a married man that is valid to you but I would wager, not valid to his wife.

 

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

[somanymistakes]

I've been reading a bunch of divorce forums lately and trying to see what I can of who's usually instigating and why. It's skewed, of course, because NOBODY wants to come into a public place and say "I'm cheating on my spouse and now I want to leave them", they'll get attacked by everyone, so you can't make any judgments about the proportions based on that.

 

The most recent stories I've seen of men seeking divorce have been "my wife cheated on me and I'm furious", "my wife is running up huge bills in my name and I need to get away from her", and in one interesting case, "I had an emotional affair and it made me realise how much I was missing with my wife so I've TRIED to fix my marriage and it's just not working and I want out". So even in that case where the affair seems to be prompting an exit, he wanted to try and save the marriage first.

 

Having no kids does seem to make it easier for a lot of people to give up on a marriage gone bad, the divorce is so much less complicated.

[stillafool]

You never really know what these men want but one male poster was here a while ago who was adamant about leaving his wife to be with his OW. We kept telling him to tell his wife he wants out and file for divorce. Finally, after some time he told her he was in love with OW and wanted a divorce. The wife informed him that this was the best thing that could have happened because she was involved in her own affair and wanted out too. What was surprising is MM was all of a sudden hurt and wasn't so keen to divorce anymore and seemed to want to fight for his wife.

[l8estnews]

As a child from a broken marriage, I would definitely say yes. I don't want my future kids to experience what I have gone through. I still have deep hatred towards the AP of my Dad.

 

I don't want anyone to harbor that kind of anger towards me.

[jenkins95]

Hi (((Fiohna))), sorry you are in a difficult place. Well done for finding LS and coming for support. Really hope you get good help and advice here.

 

I was an MM in an affair. The OW wanted me to leave, but I stayed. I had genuine feelings for the OW and struggled for a while, but I don't regret my decision.

 

There are many reasons why a MM may choose to stay even if he has genuine feelings for the OW. He may still love his wife (but just not feel crazy or lusty about her any more), he may not want to split up his family and risk his kids hating him, he may not want to lose out financially, he may not want to lose respect/social standing, he may not want to disappoint his family, parents, etc.

 

When it comes down to it, the MM is forced to do a cost-benefit analysis, as cold and unromantic as that sounds, with his feelings for the OW on one side and all the above on the other, along with the knowledge that the new relationship is unlikely to stay as "magic" for very long. The OW rarely wins this battle. In my case, I made the decision for all those above reasons, but I wanted to hurt the OW as little as possible and lower the risk of incurring her wrath, so I really played on the kids angle because it's the one least likely to hurt her and most likely to garner her sympathy. I certainly didn't say I'd fallen madly back in love with my wife - a lot of sh*t had already hit a lot of fans and I couldn't cope with even more, so I played the "I don't want to break up my kids home" angle as my major card.

 

It's tough on the OW, but ultimately a huge life lesson to learn NEVER to get involved with a married man. You can get over him and you can get past him.

 

If I was you, I would 180 and never give him the time of day again. He's used and hurt two women (just as I did), and you can do a lot better than this. Also, try to think how complicated and stressful your life could be if you did "win" him. Can you really face such massive life changes with an angry ex wife and heartbroken kids seeing you as public enemy number one?

 

Good luck in whatever you decide. We are here for you.

Edited July 31, 2017 by jenkins95

[Serendipity55]

Jenkins 95 - if not too personl a question, did you fall madly back in love?

 

OP - my MM said to be "If I left to be with you, I would be saying I value you above my children and above their happiness. I have been selfish to fall in love with you but I can't bear thought of being a part-time father".

 

I think it's a valid excuse. They're clearly not, whilst in an A, devoted fathers who value their kids happiness above all else.

 

However, I think as Jenkins95 says they do a cost-benefit analysis and it's clear in their mind sticking with the status quo is in their best interests. Also, rationally, think about what we'd be inheriting. Becoming a step-mum to sad and confused innocent children and entering into a relationship with MM and his W, as she'll always be linked to him forever and they'll always be co-parents so will spend a lot of time together. He's already proven he can cheat so what's to stop him cheating on you with his W or leaving you to go back to his W because he can't bear his children asking "why can't you live with mummy again?". I think if we imagine the future without our rose-tinted / how we want it too be glasses we can see that him leaving his family would just create further heartache for us and more importantly the innocent children.

 

Maybe I'm being unduly negative but I think it'd be a lot easier to find a single man who we could love.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Jenkins 95 - if not too personl a question, did you fall madly back in love?

 

OP - my MM said to be "If I left to be with you, I would be saying I value you above my children and above their happiness. I have been selfish to fall in love with you but I can't bear thought of being a part-time father".

 

I think it's a valid excuse. They're clearly not, whilst in an A, devoted fathers who value their kids happiness above all else.

 

However, I think as Jenkins95 says they do a cost-benefit analysis and it's clear in their mind sticking with the status quo is in their best interests. Also, rationally, think about what we'd be inheriting. Becoming a step-mum to sad and confused innocent children and entering into a relationship with MM and his W, as she'll always be linked to him forever and they'll always be co-parents so will spend a lot of time together. He's already proven he can cheat so what's to stop him cheating on you with his W or leaving you to go back to his W because he can't bear his children asking "why can't you live with mummy again?". I think if we imagine the future without our rose-tinted / how we want it too be glasses we can see that him leaving his family would just create further heartache for us and more importantly the innocent children.

 

Maybe I'm being unduly negative but I think it'd be a lot easier to find a single man who we could love.

 

You're being completely logical.

 

In addition to all of this, divorce/living separately is so expensive. Double the house payments for the family, double the utility bills, much more on groceries and clothing, etc. for the kids, child support.... It very much disrupts the financial security of some families.

[elaine567]

When it comes down to it, the MM is forced to do a cost-benefit analysis, as cold and unromantic as that sounds, with his feelings for the OW on one side and all the above on the other, along with the knowledge that the new relationship is unlikely to stay as "magic" for very long. The OW rarely wins this battle.

In my case, I made the decision for all those above reasons, but I wanted to hurt the OW as little as possible and lower the risk of incurring her wrath, so I really played on the kids angle because it's the one least likely to hurt her and most likely to garner her sympathy.I certainly didn't say I'd fallen madly back in love with my wife - a lot of sh*t had already hit a lot of fans and I couldn't cope with even more, so I played the "I don't want to break up my kids home" angle as my major card..

 

I would guess you are not alone.

You come across then as a caring father in an "impossible situation" who is desperate to give his kids a good life, and not as a "rotten cad" who just used his OW to temporarily add spice to his life.

[DKT3]

Here is the thing, kids or not, MM stay because it is what they WANT. I think Jenkins nailed it, OW/MOW have the information and ability to really damage MM, why risk upsetting her more than you have too by saying stuff like I stay because I love her, she ,is faithful, she is honest, I don't fear her having this kind of relationship, she is a safer bet. Easy way out is kids. The truth is when a man no longer WANTS to be married they don't stay married.

[anika99]

I think that unless the betrayed wife is a truly hideous human being, both inside and outside, that most men, even cheating men, love their wives. However it's a different kind of love than they feel for their OW.

 

The love they have for the OW is romantic infatuation. It's sexual, lustful, and exciting. The secret meetings, stolen moments, hidden texts and phone conversations create an intensity and urgency that makes their love for the OW a very intoxicating heady experience. However in order for the MM to maintain those kind of feelings for the OW he must keep her the OW. If he leaves to be with the OW his love for her will likely eventually become the same kind of love he feels for his wife.

 

The love MM feel for their wives isn't exciting at all. It's based on family, partnership, companionship, history, children, shared friends and community, extended family, emotional and financial stability. That kind of love is boring but it runs deep and it has binds. The wife is a family member to the MM and it's pretty difficult to turn ones back on a member of the immediate family.

 

The mistake OW often make is to believe that the MM values the exciting infatuation type of in love feelings they have for the OW over the much quieter and calmer family love they feel for their wife. They don't. At least not most of them.

 

They know they don't feel the same kind of desperate desire for their wife simply because she has become to familiar to him. Day to day family life is mundane and redundant. Go to work, pay the bills, parent the kids, do the chores, go to bed, have the same sex with the same woman. Over and over again, day in and day out. The OW adds flair to the MMs life. He feels desirable and exciting again because the OW looks at him the way his wife used to, before she too became bogged down with the boring responsibilities of married family life.

 

I think most cheating MM know this. They know that it's simply the routine and sameness of everyday married life that has sapped the excitement from their lives and they know the same thing would happen with any woman they lived with for years. They aren't necessarily miserable or unhappy, they're just bored and lacking outside stimulation. They don't want to give up their life as they know it, they just want their lives to be more exciting and exhilarating. Men with honor and integrity might take up a new sport or choose a new career, maybe go back to school and learn something new. Other men have affairs.

[jenkins95]

Jenkins 95 - if not too personl a question, did you fall madly back in love?

 

OP - my MM said to be "If I left to be with you, I would be saying I value you above my children and above their happiness. I have been selfish to fall in love with you but I can't bear thought of being a part-time father".

 

I think it's a valid excuse. They're clearly not, whilst in an A, devoted fathers who value their kids happiness above all else.

 

However, I think as Jenkins95 says they do a cost-benefit analysis and it's clear in their mind sticking with the status quo is in their best interests. Also, rationally, think about what we'd be inheriting. Becoming a step-mum to sad and confused innocent children and entering into a relationship with MM and his W, as she'll always be linked to him forever and they'll always be co-parents so will spend a lot of time together. He's already proven he can cheat so what's to stop him cheating on you with his W or leaving you to go back to his W because he can't bear his children asking "why can't you live with mummy again?". I think if we imagine the future without our rose-tinted / how we want it too be glasses we can see that him leaving his family would just create further heartache for us and more importantly the innocent children.

 

Maybe I'm being unduly negative but I think it'd be a lot easier to find a single man who we could love.

 

This is a really good post, Serendipity55 and I really feel for you as another OW who has been hurt. I don't mind at all you asking me a personal question.

 

When you ask if I fell madly back in love with my wife again, my answer is probably more pragmatic and practical than romantic! I didn't fall back into the first flush of love again, all hearts and rainbows and fluttery hormones! Instead reality hit me and made me see things as an external observer would see it. I realised that, while I had developed intense feelings for the OW, the whole context of the relationship was a fantasy (the feelings were real, but the context was a fantasy, enabled by lies and cheating) and there really wasn't much sunstance or foundation behind it. I also realised that the fluttery, hormonal "in love" feelings I felt for the OW were no different from those that I once felt for my wife (and other girlfriends in the past) and would not last forever like that - the relationship, if allowed to continue, would eventually "normalise" like almost any other - there was nothing magical about it.

 

Mainly, I realised that no relationship is ever going to be perfect and that I was very lucky to be given another chance by my wife. I gave 100% to reconciliation and sure enough have fallen in love again (but a much more mature, appreciative, deeper love - not a crazy hormone cocktail of lust, desire and ego strokes!)

 

Us MM and OW get ourselves into an awful mess and there is a price to pay for all of us, but when you write...

 

"leaving his family would just create further heartache for us and more importantly the innocent children....I think it'd be a lot easier to find a single man who we could love"

 

...this shows a great deal of maturity, acceptance and realism on your part. Ultimately, however heartbreaking it is to let go, everyone's lives will be some much easier if you can move past the affair and, take a few months to get oevr it and then meet a great single, uncomplicated guy.

 

I wish you all nothing but the best.

[jenkins95]

I would guess you are not alone.

You come across then as a caring father in an "impossible situation" who is desperate to give his kids a good life, and not as a "rotten cad" who just used his OW to temporarily add spice to his life.

 

I'm very moved by these extremely kind words, Elaine, which I don't really feel I deserve! But I'll take them anyway! - thank you very much.

 

I didn't set out to hurt anyone (cheaters handbook, page 3, right? !! ), but I was a selfish, stupid idiot, not long turned 40, experiencing MLC and boredom and who had his head turned by a beautiful 20-something (goodness knows what she saw in me really when she had so much choice in single, younger, uncomplicated guys - but there we are, the world is an odd place sometimes!).

 

I was having such fun that I allowed myself to suspend reality for a while and justify it somehow to myself, telling myself that no one needed to get hurt. Of course, as usually happens, the worlds of everyone involved came crashing down with D-days and broken hearts.

 

And then I saw it all for what it was and how much I'd risked, how much I'd hurt so many people (including the OW, although she has her own shame of the blame of course), how unbelievably stupid, selfish and cliched I was. My affair was straight out of a textbook!

 

I'm one of the lucky ones, I've been given another chance in my marriage and have grabbed it with both hands. If nothing else, this is a huge life lesson for me and I hope to use the lessons I've learned to be a much better person. I truly wish happinness for all you hurting people, whatever your role in an affair, and an escape from this awful prison that we create for ourselves. We'll get there guys.

 

 

Keep on posting

[jenkins95]

If he is not leaving when the kids are 4 and 7, do you honestly think he may leave at 10 and 13, or 13 and 16, or even 23 and 26, there is no good time to leave kids. Every age group has its issues and the effects of parent's divorcing can be devastating on any age group.

 

This is spot on as are the similar thoughts of other posters such as somanymistakes.

 

At the end of the day, this really comes down to what kind of marriage he has. If his marriage is loveless and conflicted, full of abuse, misery and fighting, his children will likely welcome the divorce at any age because it will mean a lot less stress and worry for them and they will get to have good parents apart instead of bad parents together.

 

If, howver, he is a cake eater (like I was), happy at home, but having a secret affair just to get some "extra" (as Overtaxed so often writes about), then a split would be completely unexpected to his family and would devastate them - again, no matter what age the kids are.

 

As Elaine says, there is no "good" time to leave kids. If he's going to walk out on them, he might as well do it at 4 and 7 because it will hurt no less at 14 and 17 - and he will have been living 10 more years in a lie.

[jenkins95]

Here is the thing, kids or not, MM stay because it is what they WANT. I think Jenkins nailed it, OW/MOW have the information and ability to really damage MM, why risk upsetting her more than you have too by saying stuff like I stay because I love her, she ,is faithful, she is honest, I don't fear her having this kind of relationship, she is a safer bet. Easy way out is kids. The truth is when a man no longer WANTS to be married they don't stay married.

 

As cruel as it sounds, this is spot on. Much as I had feelings for my OW, at the end of my affair, to my marriage she was like a James Bond villian with her hand hovering over a big red button. One press and my life and those of all my family would be totally destroyed. You can bet I was very careful what I said to her! Yes, I suppose this is manipulation. But the OW and I both manipulated our partners and each other so much DURING the affair, that this was really nothing new.

 

This doesn't change the fact that I had feelings for her and missed her after the affair, but at the end of the day, at critical times in your life, you get to realise what your priorities are - and mine turned out to be my family. Pity I didn't see that better BEFORE the affair. That's something I now have to live with for the rest of my life, as do others.

[jenkins95]

I think that unless the betrayed wife is a truly hideous human being, both inside and outside, that most men, even cheating men, love their wives. However it's a different kind of love than they feel for their OW.

 

The love they have for the OW is romantic infatuation. It's sexual, lustful, and exciting. The secret meetings, stolen moments, hidden texts and phone conversations create an intensity and urgency that makes their love for the OW a very intoxicating heady experience. However in order for the MM to maintain those kind of feelings for the OW he must keep her the OW. If he leaves to be with the OW his love for her will likely eventually become the same kind of love he feels for his wife.

 

The love MM feel for their wives isn't exciting at all. It's based on family, partnership, companionship, history, children, shared friends and community, extended family, emotional and financial stability. That kind of love is boring but it runs deep and it has binds. The wife is a family member to the MM and it's pretty difficult to turn ones back on a member of the immediate family.

 

The mistake OW often make is to believe that the MM values the exciting infatuation type of in love feelings they have for the OW over the much quieter and calmer family love they feel for their wife. They don't. At least not most of them.

 

They know they don't feel the same kind of desperate desire for their wife simply because she has become to familiar to him. Day to day family life is mundane and redundant. Go to work, pay the bills, parent the kids, do the chores, go to bed, have the same sex with the same woman. Over and over again, day in and day out. The OW adds flair to the MMs life. He feels desirable and exciting again because the OW looks at him the way his wife used to, before she too became bogged down with the boring responsibilities of married family life.

 

I think most cheating MM know this. They know that it's simply the routine and sameness of everyday married life that has sapped the excitement from their lives and they know the same thing would happen with any woman they lived with for years. They aren't necessarily miserable or unhappy, they're just bored and lacking outside stimulation. They don't want to give up their life as they know it, they just want their lives to be more exciting and exhilarating. Men with honor and integrity might take up a new sport or choose a new career, maybe go back to school and learn something new. Other men have affairs.

 

Anika, you just described me pre and during my affair to an absolute tee! And I suspect a large majority of cake eating MMs.

 

There is another kind of MM - those in genuinely bad marriages for whom the affair provides an exit, but from my experiences of reading literally tens of thousands of these posts, I think the majority are plain old cake eaters like I was.

 

And regarding your final sentence, I've now joined a gym and taken up golf. Too bad I didn't do that a few years ago BEFORE my little adventure!