When they find out this, they jump ship

[TequilaSunrise85]

I apologise for the length of this post, thanks for giving it a read.

So, a little back ground, I recently got divorced, went through a period of working on myself (mostly weight loss) and started dating again. Well, OLD, which is apparently what people do these days.

 

That all sounds lovely, but then I can never seem to get a second date. Lots of first dates, so I must be doing something okay, but never a second. I'm afraid I may have too much going on or be boring. I workout six days a week, and far from being a brag, I'm afraid this turns women off because it seems like I'll never have time for them even though I need to do this for my health and happiness.

Or, I'm afraid it might be my general dating experience in general. The few I've been interested in have asked about my dating history since they are curious about me getting married at 18. Since I got divorced at 30, there basically isn't any history, and when presented with that the response is something like "so I've probably had more sex than you." I have been unsure of how to respond each time. I guess I should add nobody seems to keen on being my first post divorce lover either, so having a bit of a dry spell there.

Or am I just boring? I raise my son full time, work full time, and workout in the little free time I do have. I live in an expensive area, so rent and groceries tap me out for most of my money so the fun things I do go do tend to be free like parks, hikes, and other low cost outdoor activities.

Or am I just ugly? I've lost over 100 pounds and toned up a lot of my muscles, but I'm still over weight (I used to be 430 pounds) and fat people still have a huge stigma, especially here in Seattle.

I don't think I'm an *******, and I have excellent hygiene, so I've ruled those out. My social phobia (a living nightmare for someone as extroverted as me) keeps my social circle small, so I don't have a lot of places to turn for advice. My current objectives have dropped dating entirely to work on my social circle, but that's been difficult too, so I can only assume the problem is me. I want to do better and be someone that's desired, and I know this means change.

TL/DR; Can I not get a second date because I'm ugly/boring/inexperienced or some unholy combination.

[d0nnivain]

Do you have any close female relatives or friends (buddy's wives) that may be able to help you?

 

If you think it's how you come across try changing a few things. Keep answers about your marriage vague. Don't say anything negative or positive about her. Just that it didn't work out; you are happy that she gave you a son & you wish her well. Gloss over your workout. Your fitness probably shines through; no need to make them think you will abandon them for the gym or demand that they work out like a fiend too. On that note why not look around your gym to see if somebody else who cares about fitness catches your eye. Also try meeting women through fitness oriented meet ups not just on line.

 

Are you interested in what the women have to say? Do you make eye contact. Do you really listen & ask the types of follow up Qs that show you were paying attention?

[SevenCity]

Fact is 330lbs is going to limit your options - but bravo for dropping 100!

 

There are some possible explanations for your issue:

 

1) Misrepresentation on OLD. Are your pics realistic? Do you look the same or better in person as you do in your pics? A lot of overweight women have this problem (and I heard guys do as well) where they put up a pic that makes them look like someone they are not. Don't do it - you want women who like what you look like.

 

 

2) Talking about past relationships. You are going into too much detail. I skim over the question when asked. Be as nebulous as possible or flat out lie. It's really no ones business on a first date. You can say "I got married pretty young and it didn't work out. She's a great person and i wish her the best". That's it.

 

3) I can't believe a woman would say "I've had more sex than you". Well I can. Women often claim they want to settle down but they still like the bad boy traits when dating. Don't give them any info "I don't kiss and tell" or some other bs. A girl who says that isn't worth your time.

 

4) Schedule. No need to go further than "I like to get to the gym often". It shows you are working on yourself but not obsessed. And unless you're spending 8 hours there it should not interfere with your dating life.

 

5) Steer the conversion but say very little. I'm amazed how many times I kiss / fool around with a girl after a first date after letting them do all the talking. Women love to talk (and do so more then men). Just interject once in a while "That's great, tell me more, how did you get into that? No s$&t?" I barely say a word. It leaves them wanting more just like a cliff hanger at the end of a season. Also, it's a good gauge to see if they ask about you (or are completely self absorbed).

 

6) Money - cheap dates are good if you can get away with them. But you do need money to date.

[Scarlett.O'hara]

I might be looking at this situation a little differently, but how picky are you being with the women you meet online?

 

From what I have heard about online dating, you have to shift through a lot of rubbish to find the treasure. By that I mean, there are A LOT of time wasters, players, users, those just looking for hookups, and people who are just absolutely jaded by the whole online dating experience.

 

Anyone who responds to your history by saying something like, "So I've probably had more sex than you" is rude and lacking in common courtesy and class (not to mention presumptuous). I'm surprised you would want a second date with someone like that.

 

That is why I asked how picky you are because they don't sound like genuine women looking for a good man, quite the opposite in fact. A decent woman looking for a good man would recognize the prize of finding a man who knows a thing or to about what it means to be in a committed relationship and potentially has had more regular sex than they have without sleeping around.

 

Don't sell yourself short. Be more selective who you date, and don't limit yourself to just online dating.

 

Good luck.

[RecentChange]

I am going to try to put this gently, but you have a lot working against you right now.

 

In an ideal world we would all be looking for our soul mates, and it's someone's personality and heart that matters, nothing else.

 

But we aren't in an ideal world. Dating is about an exchange of collateral. How much power, looks, status, charisma etc.

 

I think your weight (and I struggle with mine, so serious congrats on the 100lbs), financial situation, single dad status, lack of time and diverse interests are really going to play against you.

 

Women want men that they are physically attracted to. They want guys who have the time and means to shower them with attention. Early dating is so much about being "fun" and hopefully free of the burdens of everyday life.

 

As for the sex comment.. . Weird. "More sex"? Well more partners or more sex? Some of the best lovers I have ever have been with, had low numbers, but long term relationships.... It's in the long term things that you can often really discover where all the bottoms are. Quality over quantity.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I apologise for the length of this post, thanks for giving it a read.

So, a little back ground, I recently got divorced, went through a period of working on myself (mostly weight loss) and started dating again. Well, OLD, which is apparently what people do these days.

 

That all sounds lovely, but then I can never seem to get a second date. Lots of first dates, so I must be doing something okay, but never a second. I'm afraid I may have too much going on or be boring. I workout six days a week, and far from being a brag, I'm afraid this turns women off because it seems like I'll never have time for them even though I need to do this for my health and happiness.

Or, I'm afraid it might be my general dating experience in general. The few I've been interested in have asked about my dating history since they are curious about me getting married at 18. Since I got divorced at 30, there basically isn't any history, and when presented with that the response is something like "so I've probably had more sex than you." I have been unsure of how to respond each time. I guess I should add nobody seems to keen on being my first post divorce lover either, so having a bit of a dry spell there.

Or am I just boring? I raise my son full time, work full time, and workout in the little free time I do have. I live in an expensive area, so rent and groceries tap me out for most of my money so the fun things I do go do tend to be free like parks, hikes, and other low cost outdoor activities.

Or am I just ugly? I've lost over 100 pounds and toned up a lot of my muscles, but I'm still over weight (I used to be 430 pounds) and fat people still have a huge stigma, especially here in Seattle.

I don't think I'm an *******, and I have excellent hygiene, so I've ruled those out. My social phobia (a living nightmare for someone as extroverted as me) keeps my social circle small, so I don't have a lot of places to turn for advice. My current objectives have dropped dating entirely to work on my social circle, but that's been difficult too, so I can only assume the problem is me. I want to do better and be someone that's desired, and I know this means change.

TL/DR; Can I not get a second date because I'm ugly/boring/inexperienced or some unholy combination.

 

How long has it been since you've been trying to meet someone/been dating?

[Ittakestwo]

Should never be about what you look like-its who you are that matters. Good job on the weight loss..remember, you are doing this for self not for anyone else. Once you relax and realize this.. it'll all be good. Personally, I've always struggled with the opposite and have had to down play my looks so people would see me for who I am. Its a funny world. Best to you.

[Chilli]

Yeah that's what l was thinking , do they really say that too ya , the sex thing ?

lf a women said that like that to me on a first date it'd be a pretty quick date l'll tell ya.

Ya might wanna try some women with a bit of class first of all.

The rest , yeah , agree with the others you don't have to go into your stuff in such detail right now just skim and move it on.

 

Good luck though and hey your getting interest that's the main thing.

[BryanSmiley]

5) Steer the conversion but say very little. I'm amazed how many times I kiss / fool around with a girl after a first date after letting them do all the talking. Women love to talk (and do so more then men). Just interject once in a while "That's great, tell me more, how did you get into that? No s$&t?" I barely say a word. It leaves them wanting more just like a cliff hanger at the end of a season. Also, it's a good gauge to see if they ask about you (or are completely self absorbed).

 

That’s a really interesting point, they say women say on average 7k words a day and men 2k. I think it’d help both sides of the dating game for more to know and understand this. Reason being is there’s some mixed views on men leading, well it doesn’t necessarily mean talks more!

 

As someone far from expert in dating I’d say I suffer the opposite problem OP, in that I find the first date an easier one to play but less so 5 on wards. First date wise, have a handful of loose, friendly questions you’d want to know about a girl to see if she’s right for YOU, be casual, friendly, cheeky, and care free. The odd wink or touch on the arm or something goes a long way. Enjoy it for you and that in itself will give the dynamic the best chance of growing. Walk away having enjoyed a few hours, not too fussed what happens. I bet you’ll get more date 2’s then!

[OatsAndHall]

It seems to me like you are focused on the wrong things in a first date (your weight, current busy life, working out, etc..etc..) and you're not terribly calm or relaxed when you first meet these women. In order to get a second date, I found that the first one needed to be a lot of fun. Dial in on being yourself, being self-confident, keeping the conversation flowing as much as possible, get a few laughs out of her and I think you'll see more success. These dates need to be light-hearted, enjoyable and bring both parties enough peace of mind to plan a second one. I really focus on asking the women a lot about themselves and keep the chatter about myself to a minimum unless they ask a lot of questions.

 

Just understand that there are certain things that can kill a first date and they are things that you don't even realize. For example, I used to be big into the Highland Games before I wrecked my shoulder. Women would ask me about my hobbies and I would tell them about how much I enjoyed the sport. I never went on and on about it but I saw several dates come to a crashing halt when I told them that I wore a kilt and tossed around logs for fun. I would always poke fun at it and never talked about it like it was an obsession but I could tell a few women viewed it as strange. Some of it is due to the strange nature of the sport but I believe many of them viewed me as some muscle bound caveman after mentioning it. Which is funny given the fact that I am a math teacher with a Masters in mathematics..

[Michelle ma Belle]

Fact is 330lbs is going to limit your options - but bravo for dropping 100!

 

There are some possible explanations for your issue:

 

1) Misrepresentation on OLD. Are your pics realistic? Do you look the same or better in person as you do in your pics? A lot of overweight women have this problem (and I heard guys do as well) where they put up a pic that makes them look like someone they are not. Don't do it - you want women who like what you look like.

 

 

2) Talking about past relationships. You are going into too much detail. I skim over the question when asked. Be as nebulous as possible or flat out lie. It's really no ones business on a first date. You can say "I got married pretty young and it didn't work out. She's a great person and i wish her the best". That's it.

 

3) I can't believe a woman would say "I've had more sex than you". Well I can. Women often claim they want to settle down but they still like the bad boy traits when dating. Don't give them any info "I don't kiss and tell" or some other bs. A girl who says that isn't worth your time.

 

4) Schedule. No need to go further than "I like to get to the gym often". It shows you are working on yourself but not obsessed. And unless you're spending 8 hours there it should not interfere with your dating life.

 

5) Steer the conversion but say very little. I'm amazed how many times I kiss / fool around with a girl after a first date after letting them do all the talking. Women love to talk (and do so more then men). Just interject once in a while "That's great, tell me more, how did you get into that? No s$&t?" I barely say a word. It leaves them wanting more just like a cliff hanger at the end of a season. Also, it's a good gauge to see if they ask about you (or are completely self absorbed).

 

6) Money - cheap dates are good if you can get away with them. But you do need money to date.

 

This.

 

Although I would like to add a few additional points;

 

1. Agree 100%. I know women are notorious for doing this but men are as well. Best to be completely upfront in advance even it means your options are limited for the time being. Having an assortment of pics including a body shot would be helpful in letting women know what they're getting if they date you. Consider it a vetting process if nothing else.

 

2. I'm all for being honest and upfront but I will agree that being fresh out of a divorce, you need to keep things simple and uncomplicated, at least for the first few dates with a woman. Too much info too soon will scare many women, especially the younger you are. I think SevenCity gave a perfect example. I can't stress enough the importance of NEVER trashing your ex in any situation. And that goes for dating a woman who does as well, always a red flag when someone goes on and on about how horrible their ex was. Tread carefully.

 

3. Abso-f*cking-lutely! Gawd that's just bad manners. Who says such things?! RecentChange was dead on with her comments about quality over quantity. Again, minimal revelations are best initially particularly just coming out of a LTR. With the right woman, you will feel and be safe to share all your stories and secrets. Don't rush things unnecessarily.

 

4. Another AMEN for SevenCity.

 

5. I'm not sure saying very little is the way to go. I've been on countless dates with men who have said very little and it was often the reason they never got a second date. I think there is something to be said about staying quiet long enough to let the other person speak but you can't remain an enigma either. It's important to know when to talk and when to listen. A conversation is a dialogue not a monologue after all. Learn to ask questions but also understand that she too must be interested in you if this is going to work and that requires her asking questions as well. If not, perhaps a red flag worth noting.

 

6. Dating isn't cheap sadly. At least not in the beginning. You don't have to break the bank nor should you but you will have to treat a woman to something nice every now and again. I'm all for cheap dates or at least creative dates but I also enjoy being pampered or pampering my dates once in while as well. It's about balance and variety. Set a budget if need be. First dates should be something super simple like coffee or drinks if only to gauge compatibility anyway. Never spend more time or money than that for first dates. Save that for subsequent ones.

 

Congratulations on your weight loss btw!!! Best of luck to you hun.

[BryanSmiley]

5. I'm not sure saying very little is the way to go. I've been on countless dates with men who have said very little and it was often the reason they never got a second date. I think there is something to be said about staying quiet long enough to let the other person speak but you can't remain an enigma either. It's important to know when to talk and when to listen. A conversation is a dialogue not a monologue after all. Learn to ask questions but also understand that she too must be interested in you if this is going to work and that requires her asking questions as well. If not, perhaps a red flag worth noting.

 

I'd agree, it's not, saying very little, more recognising that naturally women say 3x the amount. I got my stat wrong and it's actually women say on average 20k words per day, men 7k. So whilst agreeing here, I think that's helpful info for people going into dates.

 

Some women hold off and think it should be 50-50 but there's an argument here for recognising the norm's and men steering, stimulating conversation. Men aren't quite as chatterboxes as women are very often. And if you have a woman that's not answering open questions with a lot, and isn't firing questions back as she thinks it's on you to lead - it makes it difficult and could indeed be a red flag.

[Michelle ma Belle]

I'd agree, it's not, saying very little, more recognising that naturally women say 3x the amount. I got my stat wrong and it's actually women say on average 20k words per day, men 7k. So whilst agreeing here, I think that's helpful info for people going into dates.

 

Some women hold off and think it should be 50-50 but there's an argument here for recognising the norm's and men steering, stimulating conversation. Men aren't quite as chatterboxes as women are very often. And if you have a woman that's not answering open questions with a lot, and isn't firing questions back as she thinks it's on you to lead - it makes it difficult and could indeed be a red flag.

 

Definitely. Conversation is a dance. Knowing how men and women operate does or at least should help. It's another case of quality versus quantity I think. Quality of the conversation as opposed to quantity especially if it's one way verbal diarrhea. Reciprocation is key. You don't have to talk a LOT but you have to be engaging.

[SevenCity]

This.

 

Although I would like to add a few additional points;

 

1. Agree 100%. I know women are notorious for doing this but men are as well. Best to be completely upfront in advance even it means your options are limited for the time being. Having an assortment of pics including a body shot would be helpful in letting women know what they're getting if they date you. Consider it a vetting process if nothing else.

 

2. I'm all for being honest and upfront but I will agree that being fresh out of a divorce, you need to keep things simple and uncomplicated, at least for the first few dates with a woman. Too much info too soon will scare many women, especially the younger you are. I think SevenCity gave a perfect example. I can't stress enough the importance of NEVER trashing your ex in any situation. And that goes for dating a woman who does as well, always a red flag when someone goes on and on about how horrible their ex was. Tread carefully.

 

3. Abso-f*cking-lutely! Gawd that's just bad manners. Who says such things?! RecentChange was dead on with her comments about quality over quantity. Again, minimal revelations are best initially particularly just coming out of a LTR. With the right woman, you will feel and be safe to share all your stories and secrets. Don't rush things unnecessarily.

 

4. Another AMEN for SevenCity.

 

5. I'm not sure saying very little is the way to go. I've been on countless dates with men who have said very little and it was often the reason they never got a second date. I think there is something to be said about staying quiet long enough to let the other person speak but you can't remain an enigma either. It's important to know when to talk and when to listen. A conversation is a dialogue not a monologue after all. Learn to ask questions but also understand that she too must be interested in you if this is going to work and that requires her asking questions as well. If not, perhaps a red flag worth noting.

 

6. Dating isn't cheap sadly. At least not in the beginning. You don't have to break the bank nor should you but you will have to treat a woman to something nice every now and again. I'm all for cheap dates or at least creative dates but I also enjoy being pampered or pampering my dates once in while as well. It's about balance and variety. Set a budget if need be. First dates should be something super simple like coffee or drinks if only to gauge compatibility anyway. Never spend more time or money than that for first dates. Save that for subsequent ones.

 

Congratulations on your weight loss btw!!! Best of luck to you hun.

 

I agree conversations are a two way street. But I've had amazing success by allowing them to talk about 80% of the time. During this I show enthusiasm and ask follow up questions but keep my answers short when asked and steer the convo to them.

 

It shows that I'm interested in them as a person rather than an object and they all seem to want to talk about themselves.

 

I recall this one hot (!) girl who ended up being a selfish narcissistist (which is why it ended) asked me about my dating history on a first date and I told her I was married and in a LTR for the past 17 years. She asked "Do you want to get married again???" obviously trying to filter if I was just looking for casual.

 

Now an honest answer would have been "I want desperately to find a girl I can fall in love with and get married, where we could be each other's best friends and spend the rest of our lives together. All the women I've dated recently appear to be self centered and self serving and I fear I will never find anyone I like enough to keep around long term".

 

Honest, but not a great idea. Instead, this is how I answered:

 

"Look, I think you're really nice and I'm flattered but I think we should get to know each other a little better before we talk about getting married." While smiling like a devil. She laughed hysterically and when pushed again I said "Of course". She had texted me thanking me saying she had a wonderful time before I even got back to my car.

 

Point is, there is such a thing as being too honest and it will make you come off as undesirable. Dates should be fun with fun topics, not about struggles or bad times. You don't want to be associated with those - you wanna be fun guy.

[Arieswoman]

Op,

I'm going to be honest here - 330 lbs is still 23 stone which is a turnoff for a lot of women. How tall are you?

 

You did good dropping the weight, are you still working on this? Keep at it.

 

I would leave the dating until you've lost another 50lbs.

 

However, make sure you are doing all this for yourself and your own health, not for someone else.

 

Good luck x

[TheTraveler]

Even at 330lbs you're still a pretty big guy. I'm going to guess the pictures are misleading. You could even say talking about working out 6 times a week is a detriment because when they see you they might think you're lying.

 

Continue going on dates, and adjust. Good advice has already been mentioned.

[preraph]

Maybe you're talking too much about your weight loss and working out. That does put some people off. Of course, if you get serious with someone, you tell them about the weight loss and hope it doesn't scare them off (weight comes back on easily, as you well know).

 

You surely must have some idea if you are average looking or under average or above average. Not all women like LOTS of muscles, so remember that too. But good for you working on yourself and I'm glad it's working for you.

 

I'd say if you're getting a first date, then it's not your looks because they SAW you right? So maybe what you talk about. Also, having social phobia is certainly a red flag to most people, but you said you're an extrovert, so is this more about being out in the open or what? Have you treated it?