Stay or go? What on earth do I do now?

[Ditherer]

In a nutshell : bored with my rut, I don't

believe I'll ever fully love my wife, I avoid

her whenever I can, things will only get worse,

what do I do?

 

Here's my story, it's a long one, but it's all

relevant I think - and I'll really appreciate it

if you take an interest and share your thoughts.

 

In my teens I had a few girlfriends that didn't

work out, nothing special except for one, C, that

didn't work out because she was too good for me

and I couldn't relax with her. I had a dry spell

where I got a bit worried I'd never find anyone,

and then met W, who was so keen that I didn't

even have to make any effort. I never went through

the attraction phase, the yearning, the finally

breaking through.. it just fell into place because

I was her ideal man! I wasn't 100% impressed but

went along with it because I needed attention, and

thought why not? She wasn't ugly, and had the kind

of body that impressed me. One thing led to another,

and finally having xxx was great. My first partner

at last (my only one, still!).. and it brought us

closer together. Now I've learnt you shouldn't get

that close to someone unless you're REALLY keen -

it's not fair and it doesn't work out with a happy

ending if one partner loves the other far more than

in return.

 

Yes, deep down I had really big doubts. Sure we got

on fine, she was good company, I was getting lots of

cuddles, closeness and plenty of laughs - she has

a good sense of humour on a very basic slapstick level,

with an enchanting childlike enthusiasm for life.

But it didn't feel right. I don't want to sound

arrogant but people generally say I'm an intelligent

bloke - I work with complex problems in the IT field,

I read a lot, I like to believe I'm fairly smart.

I do accept I'm not smart enough to figure out the

answer to this problem though! But her? She's slow

to cotton on, has a reading age less than 10,

hopeless with numbers, no clue about current affairs

or any of the things I find interesting. I find I

can't really talk to her about anything, there's

nothing there. I can't joke with her on a higher

level (like good TV comedy) because it's way over

her head. I can't really be myself with her, I

feel held back. If I try to be funny with my mates

she thinks I'm showing off. She used to be horribly

jealous and accused me of fancying every girl I knew.

As well as that, I've always felt like I really

didn't fancy her enough - I never went through the

crush phase of really wanting her, pursuing her

and winning her over. I really missed that, and

I still do. I felt I should be enjoying

that, but was instead stuck in a dead-end

relationship. One year in, I tried to break it up,

but she was so upset that I caved in and carried on

with it - having negotiated more 'space' to have

time to myself (which I need, as too much of her

has always been stressful). I was also hoping that

a long engagement might give me time to find

someone else.

 

So time passed, I was still getting plenty of

'action' with her, that kept us close. She's since

admitted she'd sometimes only do it because she was

scared of losing me. After a year or three it

didn't seem likely that we'd ever split, and talk

of marriage led to our engagement. After that we

both left home to move in to a flat together.

At this point she knew she had me, and not a lot

happened in the bedroom. I then found that "C"

(my earlier crush) lived just around the corner,

and I was to bump into her a lot (often on purpose)

in the next few years. It became almost a bit of an

obsession, getting closer and closer to C while

delaying my marriage plans to W. Eventually I

ended up kissing C (and it took me years to get

there, even!) but I obviously didn't impress her

because the next day she was cold and didn't want

to know. Feeling horribly lovesick I felt there'd

never be anyone that wonderful again, so I figured

I might as well go ahead and marry W, who at least

had a heart of gold and loved me. Sounds heartless,

doesn't it? But I did really enjoy my wedding day,

(prescription drugs combined with plenty of drinks

may have contributed to that - and I like to joke

that my vows weren't made while I was fit to make

them, hehe). The wedding night was great, as was

the honeymoon, I felt blessed and lucky to have

someone. I loved her on plenty of levels and

whatever was missing I ignored and hoped for the

best. I had more or less convinced myself I loved

her enough to make it work, I could manage.

I wanted the whole "married with house and kids"

experience, and this was my best shot. A huge

achievement for someone so shy and full of

self-doubt.

 

A few years passed as we settled into a routine,

and bought a house. I still missed the thrill of

falling in love, and often had crushes on other

women, but I was never unfaithful - being shy

I never approached anyone so I never got the

chance to stray. I told myself that interesting

conversation was what friends were for, my wife

was just someone to share my life with in other

ways. Companionship and a settled life was

better than the loneliness of single life - and

divorce was a VERY dirty word.. I could NOT

imagine going down that route. My family would

have been appalled, I couldn't have handled it,

I couldn't have hurt W... a split simply wasn't

an option. I ended up a bit depressed quite

often. Very little xxx, little closeness, I

just felt "Is this it? 40 more years of this

and then you die? What's it all for?!"

 

I felt a biological calling to have kids, I hoped

they would give my life a focus, and sure enough

that has happened, largely. But I still yearn

to feel strong mutual love with someone I fancy.

Now with two kids, the domestic rut means the

same old thing day in day out. Six nights a

week I'm doing the same chores, getting a little

bit of quality time with the kids, and then when

they're in bed I'm stuck with W for an hour or

so, watching TV in silence, waiting for her to

go to bed so I can have another hour or so to

myself. It's been over a year since we had xxx,

I'm just either too tired or not interested.

She's put on weight and I find that a turn off,

combined with her face that doesn't inspire me,

her thick voice, her hair she no longer makes

an effort with..

 

My job got harder and I decided that if I really

had to work hard, I wanted to play hard too.

I ended up praying for some sort of non-xxxual

affair just to make life more exciting - the

cheek of it! "I know it's wrong, but..."

Lo and behold, I decided to tackle some personal

issues by attending a course... and met someone

special, F. We had the problems in common, so it

was very easy to get talking. She was single

and desperate for someone... I could tell she

was interested in me by her body language...

finally after all these years someone wanted me!

I had reservations at first because she has so

MANY problems, but I find her fascinating and

enjoy caring about her, I'd still love to be her

partner and take care of her. She's so many

things that W isn't.

We ended up phoning every day, texting all

day, met for a couple of cuddly walks but she

didn't want to be The Other Woman and held

back. We never even kissed passionately, but

she said she'd wait for me while I sorted out

leaving W. I was head over heels in love with

her and as W was extremely moody at the time,

I even got as far as tidying up my stuff ready

to leave, and consulted a lawyer to see what

I could expect. I could afford to leave, and

was nearly prepared to. My 'babe' F was pretty,

slim, really great to talk to, sexy voice (W

has a horrible voice), I just lit up and became

a whole new person when I was with her. It was

the most excitement I've had for years. But the

more she held back, the more clingy and

pathetic I became, pushing her away without

being able to help myself, showing her my worst

side because I wanted her SO much - but she

couldn't cope with the guilt. We would have

worked out great under normal dating circumstances

but as a married man I had no chance. And now

she's seen me behave really needily in ways

she'd never have seen otherwise. I guess I blew

it, it wasn't meant to be.

 

Then, tired of waiting for me, my new 'soulmate'

found someone else who was actually single and

ready to go... she said she couldn't wait for

me, didn't believe I'd ever leave W and seemed

to have convinced herself that it wouldn't have

worked (although she HAD been REALLY keen.. just

not keen enough!). I suppose she's so desperate

to have someone (she was dumped 2 years ago and

very hurt, and had found no-one special since)

- I think she's just eager to take the first

real chance she's got. I'm heartbroken, still

trying to get over it, but I know it's my own

fault for not paying attention to the "hurry

up and be single!" she said months ago, although

there have been many hiccups along the way as

she tried to call it off, I wouldn't let go,

I held out for staying good friends and still

getting to know each other better without ruling

out something happening one day. She's strung

it out by never saying 'Never' - until a couple

of weeks ago. I realise there may still be some

hope if ever we both end up single.. if it's

meant to be (!)... but for now I know I've got

to let go and get on with my life. It's hurt

me a lot that F doesn't even want to be

friends any more, will only say hello if she

bumps into me in the street - I can't even

text or phone her now and then to see how she

is. This is partly my fault as I said we don't

really work as Just Good Friends - I'm all-or

-nothing and didn't want to end up in the only

-ever-friends role. So I have to wait and see

whether she is worth keeping as a friend, or

maybe her new man won't work out... I would

happily ignore what she's up to now and start

again one day, that's how special she still

seems. I KNOW this is pathetic! One of my mates

thinks I'm stupid to fall for the first woman

that's come along in xx years, he can't stand

me dithering about what to do for the best.

And I know F won't respect me at all if I don't

leave W like I said I would, which doesn't

help. I said I was leaving for the right

reasons, not just to be with her (which she

felt too guilty about) but in reality the two

issues were unavoidably linked.

I really don't know what the future may hold

for me and F and I'm happy to wait while I

figure out what to do about my marriage...

 

Another friend says I should appreciate what

I've got with W (cos he's never had it) and I

know I should, really. But there's a world of

difference between staying with someone because

I OUGHT to, rather than me WANTING to. Another

couple of friends have both left really bad

marriages and say they don't regret it at all

- one has since met someone so perfect that

I admit it's made me rather envious. This

year has opened my eyes to what's possible

- divorce (or even a trial sep to start with)

isn't anywhere near as difficult as I thought

it would be. Luckily I could afford to rent

and still pay the mortgage... my wife and kids

wouldn't have to move, I'd still maintain them,

their only change would be that I wouldn't

be there anymore. I'd still see the kids

whenever I could though. There have been other

divorces in the family in recent years, so it's

not such a big deal. My dad is OK with it and

has a spare room as my 'escape route', but my

mum is very close to W and will be very upset.

I'm not all that concerned what people say,

they don't know first-hand what goes on in

our house - how badly W swears at me and our

young kids when she's even slightly stressed.

It's no-one else's business. These things

happen.

 

I know I'm really bad how I've treated my wife,

by seeing where I could get with two different

women now (and I still keep in touch with C, the

first one) but I've always been able to get my

own way because she loves me (and depends upon

me) more than I've ever loved her. I know I

don't respect her enough, or love her enough.

When she phones me I can't wait to end the call.

I dread bank holiday weekends when I have to

think up something to do and spend time with

her. At home I avoid her as much as I can, I'm in

other rooms whenever I get a chance. It's been

like that for years, not just since F. These days

I can't even bring myself to hug her anymore,

I used to be able to manage that to keep her

happy. We had one big 'row' (just a heavy

discussion with tears - we don't row usually)

and she suggested I moved back to my parents

and sort my head out. She knows something's

wrong but doesn't know what. She thinks I'm

just stressed with my work, and problems in

the family (my siblings), she did wonder if

there was someone else or I'd been trying

substances, haha. I said I was really fed

up with my lifestyle, I didn't know if we

were really suited to each other - what do

we have left when the kids are grown up and

fly the nest? What do we ever share and talk

about? She was really hurt, slept downstairs

that night and wanted to ask my mates what

the heck was going on in my head. I can't

say what, can I?!

 

So now what? My 'emotional affair' went

nowhere, and I still crave the excitement

of falling for someone. I can't decide if

it's the most important thing for me or not

- it certainly took over my life while it

was there. I lost a lot of weight and started

to dress better, I'm hoping to find someone

who really feels right. If I stay with W I

suspect I'll just end up having an affair

if I can manage it, I'm sure we're not going

to grow old together!

 

Since being dumped I've lost some confidence,

and I'm still not sure I could cope emotionally

with life on my own. I can look after myself

but I've never lived on my own with no-one

'there for me' - maybe I shouldn't doubt myself

but I can be a bit feeble... too soppy for my

own good. It would be a lot easier to leave

if I knew someone was waiting for me, to

help me through setting up on my own - but

where would I be if it ended? I've got to

face the ugly truth that leaving W means

leaving to be completely alone for the time

being, until I'm lucky enough to meet someone.

I don't really want to end up alone,

I wonder what anyone would want me for, and

whether I'd hold on to them. I know that hearts

heal and we can all love again... I know when

you're in love you're just happy to be there

with them, I shouldn't worry as things will

either all fall into place or it's time to

move on and find someone who really is right.

Surely I've got as much to offer as anyone

else? If I was renting a flat and maintaining

W and the kids I wouldn't have a great deal

of spare cash... but I'm a warm cuddly soul

with a lively mind and a good sense of humour

- I hope I can be a good partner if I find

someone I really click with. My friends all

stick by me and W hasn't given up on me yet.

I get on well with others, understand their

problems and make allowances, I do all I can

to avoid trouble and making things worse.

I bite my tongue if I have to and try not

to upset people if they're stressed - this

is why I hardly ever row with W - I simply

ignore it when someone doesn't really mean it

- like when W is getting annoyed with me and

says she should never have married me...

and wishes I'd drop dead! (then says sorry

later when she's calmed down - but it makes

me wonder if that's how she really feels)

 

This is my dilemma. Do I move on and try to

find someone who really DOES feel right?

Lose half a house, a wife who loves me, miss

seeing all of how my kids grow up, risk

seeing another man 'become their dad', hurt W

so much she'll be in pieces, hurt the kids

(one's too young to know the difference but

the other will be devastated - very sensitive)

??? It would cost me so much.

But if I go I'll have the freedom to do what

I want when I want, and MAYBE find a life

that's a bit more exciting than being sat

in an armchair 6 nights a week while life

passes me by. Is life too short to stay with

someone because I ought to? When I quite

plainly don't love her? When I feel it's

doomed to fail? Or am I still cold to W

only because I haven't got over F yet?

I can't have loved W if I was yearning for

someone better before F arrived though?!

Maybe I am a bit depressed - I can't see

when I'm ever going to be really happy

again.

 

If I stay with W I'll miss whatever slim

chance there ever may have been with F

(I doubt her new man will be her Mr Right

- with all her problems and a few slight

character flaws that I was prepared to

put up with - I think she'll be single

again before long) ... and I'll miss the

chance to try dating and perhaps find

some even better. I'm already thinking

of computer dating services because I'm

so keen to find someone really special.

It's my driving force now. Or am I deluding

myself? Is my comfortable-but-dull rut

something other people would love to have?!

Is boredom a luxury 'enjoyed' by those who

have nothing serious to worry about? But

if I was dating again and someone exactly

like W came along, I wouldn't want to

pursue her - so why stay with her? I'm

not being fair to her, am I? She could find

someone who really appreciates her!

 

I know that if I wanted to I could give it

a go with W, we could make love - we'd feel a

lot closer. Maybe that could keep us together

for a while longer. Is it fair to do that

when I'm THIS unsure of things? A trial

separation seems like a good idea - it would

hurt her still, but the blame would be on me

for being so mixed up... she'd take me back

if I 'realise my mistake'... but then if I can

cope without her I think I ought to face it.

I think I have to be honest with myself - if

I'm so unsure about her then the trial

separation HAS to be the only logical thing

to try. We're both under 40, we can start

again. We've got parents and friends for

support.

 

I'm amazed that I asked Him Up There for

a non-adulterous affair and was granted

one... but what was that for? To open my

eyes to what I could lose, or to show me

how very wrong my marriage is? It isn't

a three-way-marriage-with-God thing, she

doesn't even believe - she only married

in a church because "it was nice"!

I consider my marriage vows don't apply

any more, I vowed to love her and quite

plainly don't. We've had plenty of very

frosty days when I've seriously doubted

whether she loves me either. I sometimes

wonder if she only wants to keep things

going because she's scared of the unknown

future too.

Does my affair show me how I need to

follow my instincts, to listen to my heart

and start afresh? How can my marriage last?

Is it worth 'working at it' like some say,

or is it as doomed as I think it is, due

to our differences? I read somewhere recently

that a relationship that starts without the

man doing all the chasing hardly EVER works.

I think that could be very right, and it's

just a shame it took me so long to come

to my senses. But at least I've got two

lovely kids out of it - I really don't know

if I'd have grown as a person at ALL if

I hadn't met W - I can't deny she has been

good for me. I just wonder if I've finally

outgrown her. Sounds callous, yes?

 

Thanks for bearing with me, it was a long

read wasn't it? I'd love to know what you

think. Insult me if you like, I guess I

deserve it. I've always been so loathe to

hurt W that I've ended up about to give

her years of hurt in one go. Don't think

I haven't absolutely AGONISED over this,

for many many months, my mates are sick

of hearing about it. They all tell me

only I can decide what to do... of course...

but extra opinions may help to shed new

light on the matter. It's been good for

me to write all this down, at least!

Maybe I'm looking for "permission to

leave", or maybe I need a slap round the

face and a "marriage isn't all easy, you

have to WORK at it"... "don't hurt them".

My choice is so difficult because it's

between a mind-numbingly dull uncertainty

and a scary total unknown. Tough decision!

If you find this an interesting case,

and you've read every line, and you're

about to comment....

Thank you so VERY much for caring!

[Lil Honey]

Ditherer:

 

I read the first four paragraphs and the last two.

 

Apparently, you never loved your wife. I think that she deserves to know. You simply stayed with her for the sex. You even said that you thought a long engagement would give you time to find someone else. Um . . . IMHO . . . that would be cheating if you had a relationship with someone else.

 

I think you should come forward with all these feelings of yours. If you don't have the guts - and I think that you don't - you should print out your post and give it to her. If you don't leave her, she will likely leave you. Afterall, what person (man or woman) wants to spend their life with someone who doesn't love them?

 

OF COURSE, she felt sad when you tried to break up with her the first time. Everyone does.

 

I suggest that you let her go to find someone who will truely love her. You owe her that.

[Ladyjane14]

Whew! Well, I slogged on through....next time, maybe a few more paragraghs, and let the program make your line breaks, eh?

 

Anyway, I only have one bit of philosophy for you. And that is this....it's NOT another person that makes the difference between joy and despair.

 

YOU are the one who determines the level of contentment in your life. It comes from within....not without.

 

By your own admission, you are a poor husband. Yet your wife seems to be content enough to want to keep you. Where does that come from if not from within her? It's not all just "love" for her husband, I guarantee it.

 

Because, if it was left up to you and her interactions with you, and if she had NO sense of contentment within herself...wouldn't she be yelling at you EVERY MINUTE OF HER LIFE?

 

Wouldn't she have left you?

 

I have to admit....I'm a bit affronted on her behalf. Because I can identify with having a man blame you for every last bit of his dissatisfaction with life. Been there, done that. And believe it or not...recovered from it, and stayed married to boot.

 

I'm NOT however advising you to remain in the marriage. That's a decision that you have to make for yourself....one way or the other.

 

What I am advising you to do, is to spend time....ALOT of time, in contemplation of YOU. What's on the inside? What makes you feel content in solitude, without regard to your interactions with others?

 

If you lived alone, could you stand your own company?

 

When you can disregard what other people are doing, or not doing for that matter, and you concentrate ONLY on your own actions....you'll be able to put the driving need "to find someone special" aside.

 

You'll find that person within yourself.

 

After that, you don't need someone to make you happy. You can be happy on your own. And when you do decide on sharing your life...you've really got something to share. It becomes a matter of increasing an already bountiful existance....rather than just scraping by.

[Ditherer]

Thank you both very much, for taking time to answer.

Please bear in mind I wrote my life story above while I was still feeling quite down,

still lovesick - I thought I'd found a real soulmate in F and I've lost her. Someone

I care about and was close to for many months now has no time for me, it's been two

weeks since I last heard from her. I've been very hurt, but I did tell her to leave

it a few weeks if she wants, while she starts dating her new bloke, so I'm hoping she

will eventually get in touch and we can at least be friends. Or is that a bit sad?

Should I just let go completely? I've reached some sort of acceptance, it must have

been hard for her to want me (I know she did) but stop herself getting involved.

I won't be surprised if she'd rather have nothing more to do with me ever, but I

think it's mad to let go of someone who cares about you... however... I could say

the same about me and W... somehow the fact that W cares about me doesn't seem

to matter when I don't feel as much as I should in return.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying I've always only been with W for sex! The sex did

bring us to together in the early days and I was happy enough most of the time, it's

just that I always felt deep down that she wasn't The One.. there just wasn't enough

reason to end it, I couldn't when I tried, and then as time passed I figured I'd be

able... not so much to "make do" but... I don't know... better the devil you know?!

She is a lovely warm caring person, I value that and I knew I'd be a fool to let her

go... but I'm still plagued with doubts that she's The One that I really want to

share the rest of my life with.

 

I have had periods on contentment in my life, where I've accepted my lot, things

could be a lot worse. I've let myself go, ended up comfort-eating and piled on weight.

That shows that something isn't right. There's a deep-seated problem that I'm

trying to live with, but I need to face it... is she really right for me? How can

she be, when I'm not eager to see her, I avoid her when I can, don't I relish being

with her?

 

It's as if we are just two friends who happen to live in the same house, bringing up

kids together. Not great friends, either. She's the kind of friend you CAN enjoy

things with, but wouldn't be your first choice for a night out. The kind of friend

you've shared a lot with, you DO value them, but that doesn't mean you don't find

them a bit tedious and annoying... do you know what I mean?! It's as if living with

her is a job, just something I have to do, to get by.

 

Yes, you're right I probably won't have the guts to tell her all this. Even if I can

face a trial sep to see if that makes my mind up for me.. I still won't tell her all

this! Why hurt her that much? Is it enough to tell her I've "fallen out of love for

her" - why twist the knife and say she's never been enough?!

 

I don't know if I can happily live on my own. I get a day to myself at the weekend,

and it's bliss. I do what I like, it's the highlight of my week. But if all my

friends are busy, then by the end of the day I'm starting to feel lonely. I worry

that my whole self-esteem depends upon BEING married - I don't feel like a failure.

I admit I'm emotionally immature. Here I am with 40 not too far off, and I'm still

in the same relationship (my only lover) since my teens! How on earth am I to know

whether I'd manage on my own?! On a good positive day like today I think even a

stay-in-every-night rut on my own isn't going to be a whole lot different to what

I've got now - I'll just miss the kids and whatever companionship there is with W.

My dad tells me that's all you really have left when you're older and sex is a

distant memory... companionship. I can't help wondering if that's just SETTLING for

something because you're too scared to get out there and find what you REALLY want.

I hate the thought of growing old with W, with only companionship left - because

we haven't got any companionship that I value right now! What's the point of

being with someone when you don't want to be with them? Is that the whole root of

the problem... have I answered my own problem with that one question?!

I know I have to be happy on my own before I can add value to anyone else's life.

Over the years I've filled my hours with pointless hobbies to pass the time and

fill the void in my life, but since meeting F all these "old man's hobbies" have

seemed so futile I've given them up. There is nothing as exciting as meeting some

-one you really click with, and want to be with, makes you feel wonderful - is there?

Isn't that what we all want? However self-contained I could be, happy on my own, I

believe it's a normal part of the human condition to want to be in love, no?

That's what I've been missing all these years, and I don't know if I can face

the rest of my life chained to a marriage that isn't "hitting the spot" for me.

If things were truly awful it would be a lot easier to decide. But it's not so

horrendous. It's like a dull toothache that isn't enough to make me want to go

the dentist... I only go when it hurts so much that the pain is worse than going!

I'm so mixed up. I would really value any further thoughts anyone may have.

I read a thread on mid-life crisis that really rang true for a moment or two, but

then I realised I've been feeling like this for years, so it can't be that.

I feel I've got a chance to get out now while I can afford it, I have an escape

route (my parents may move to a 1-bedroom place before long, so my chance to go

will be harder - I've nowhere else to run to), we both have all the parents and

friends we need for support... my chance to change my life completely is right

here right now and I'm feeling a huge pressure to decide before I get stuck here

for good. Or until the inevitable happens further down the line. I'm 90% sure

we'll split one day, it's just a matter of when - and why should I miss out the

chance to start again while I'm still relatively young?

 

Many thanks again. Much appreciated!

[Outcast]

It will take up far too much of my life to read your novella but have you tried marriage counselling? I know people in arranged marriages who are very happy. The key is becoming committed to the marriage and to each other. It's possible that you can find things to like about her and things you have in common. You can work on developing things in common.

 

My dad tells me that's all you really have left when you're older and sex is a distant memory... companionship.

 

He's right. When your prostate gives up the ghost, you'll be happy of a faithful, kind, loving person in your life.

 

You can toss her away if you want but there are a whole lot of people out there still searching for 'the One' because the person who lives in their ideation doesn't exist. They've got a fantasy of what marriage should be - never tedious, never tiresome, always joyful and fulfilling - but life isn't like that.

 

I think you should give it a good try to find whether you can build a good relationship together instead of pining for a mythical 'One' who may never come along. If that fails, then you can head out on your own but don't do it thinking life will be all roses.

[Ditherer]

Thanks Outcast.

I know it wouldn't be roses, but there must be other kind loving people out there who could end up

with me in my later years - someone I naturally click with on higher levels?

What's the point of Making It Work with someone you've all but given up on? Who wants to force

themself to like someone they don't? A mate of mine says hang on to the partner you have because

"women are all the same, you may as well stick with the one you have" - but I disagree. You can't tell

me all MEN are the same to get on with, otherwise why would I have only a handful of friends, all

very different, while others have come and gone over the years.. and there are plenty of blokes

I couldn't get on with if I tried? So why should women be any different? When I was younger I had

about 8 girlfriends that didn't last, we didn't click well enough past the attraction phase.

I just think my wife is another one I don't totally click with, and I think I NEED to keep on

searching.. how can I tell what's possible after only trying 9?! There have been other women in my

life I REALLY get on well with, but not romanticly.. surely it MUST be possible to combine the two

in one person if I keep on looking?

My "affair" recently proved to me that I could find someone I fell for totally, someone

I *DO* click with.. although we never made it much beyond the attraction phase, the flirty

best-behaviour trying-to-impress stage - I don't know if we'd have really been good together

in the long term (which makes in harder to get over it in some ways, but easier in others;

I can tell myself not to worry about missing out on the unknown, but I also have to let go

of all the high hopes I had).

Bear in mind I met my (now) wife when I was 19, so I'd never started a romantic relationship

with a grown adult until my non-adulterous affair.

The rest of my life is (hopefully) a long time to waste with someone I just don't fancy talking to,

or fancy spending time with, no matter how much effort I may put into it just the sake of

Just Getting Along to keep a marriage going.

What's a marriage anyway? It's just about Me and Her, and I think it's too broken.

I *could* grin and bear it, but who is that fooling? What kind of life is Grin-and-Bear-It when

there are so many other people out there? I'm starting to sound like I've made my mind up,

aren't I? But the trouble is, I still can't know how special my wife is until I lose her! Argh!!!

Thanks for your comments.

[Trashman]

Dude, post a two-sentence response to this message, just to prove to me that you can do it.

 

Seriously, you need to get out of that marriage. You sound sorta like me. You married a woman because she was the best thing around at the time and you were at least somewhat compatible with her- you thought, anyway. Then you realized she is way below your education level, not interested in things you are, pronounce "Tomato" differently, and that you two are in fact not very compatible. I mean, who the *&^% pronounces it To-MAH-to anyway? WTF is up with that?

 

Man, we grow old and we die. Some bypass the first part. If you have so much doubt about your marriage, then get out while you're still young enough to start over. You can try reading books, counceling and all that crap, but you have already (in painful detail, I must say) described a situation where you and her are simply not on the same level and sitting in front of a councelor ain't gonna help that one bit.

 

Here's the kicker. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to quest for the Princess, you have to leave the hovel, and never return. You're taking the risk of never finding that perfect person, and living a miserable, lonely life. Then again, you may find the person of your dreams. She is out there. Of the 5+ billion souls currently taking in oxygen on this planet, statistically your perfect woman must be among them. I think that everyone has a perfect match, but the odds of them even being alive at the same time are long, let alone ever actually meeting one another, let alone hooking up. For instance, my perfect match is Amelia Earhart, we're both pilots, explorers, intellectuals, adventurers, and ugly as a cow's butt, but she's dead. Don't help me much, does it? Therefore, don't look at women as whether they are the "perfect" person for you, but rather think of them as "pretty darned close to being perfect". There are many more of those out there in the world, and you are much more likely to run into one. Don't hook up with the next thing that comes along, settle in and get some lovin', spend the next few years with her, and finally marry her because she's the best thing around at the time, because one day you'll wake up and realize that she's your old wife all over again. Then you'll feel like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day.

 

You need a woman who is your educational equivalent, who has similar goals in life (or at least has SET some goals), earns or has potential to earn income comparable to yours, is beautiful and health/exercise conscious, loves having sex (with you), likes children (any woman worth having likes children. It is in their basic programming) and... um... yeah I said sex, didn't I? Yeah that about covers it.

 

Go forth, and seek ye this so-called "pretty darned close to being perfect" woman. But leave your current one first. Otherwise that could get ugly. Unless of course you already did leave her and I just missed it somewhere in that encyclopedia of a post you submitted. I had to skim a bit.

[Ditherer]

Thanks, I'll make this one long run-on sentence then, hehe, if I'm going to log in and write something

I might as well say everything I need to say, I hope you talk to women as amusingly

as you write, you shouldn't have any problems then, and I *do* say to-MAH-to because so does everyone

else round these parts, *grin*, but back to the main subject... I'm glad to see your point of view

because that's how I'm feeling right now, I'm painfully aware that a woman who loves me is a very

valuable and special thing BUT ultimately unless the love is two-way then it's meaningless, that's

the sad and awful truth of it, but it's such a horrendous thing to do I still will probably chicken

out and put up with my rut for a while longer, while I agonise over it some more, and some more, and

it'll probably be Christmas before I know it..

 

.. an update on my affair-babe F; I saw her briefly from a distance yesterday and she ignored me at

first, then finally waved and smiled in caring but slightly awkward way, then for some reason I felt

I could send her a text message (I should be able to wish her a happy birthday for next week, no?)

despite having said I wouldn't text her again, then by some miracle (genuinely unexpected!) I bumped

into her again when she'd got back to her car and was checking her mobile phone... I saw her STARING

at what I presume was my message (perfectly friendly ending with a single x) and looking a bit upset

she wiped her eyes with a tissue.. wow.. did I still have that much effect on her .. but then as I

got closer on the way past, she saw me and turned quickly away to avoid me.. and she hasn't replied

to my text (where I offered her something she'd like, free) .. so I can only assume I'm very unlikely

to hear from her again, it really is well and truly hopeless.. I'd like to kid myself that she did

really want me (I KNOW that much) and still hasn't let go totally.. but she's trying to shut me out

of her life completely (without staying friends - which I've offered) because she just can't deal

with it (she's not great with her feelings and relationships) ... so all I can do is move on and

hope that maybe one day we'll both be able to look back and laugh at it... nothing I can do about it

now.. just have to figure out whether my marriage can be rescued, do I want to, or can I face

leaving? I think I have to...

 

Holding on to someone just because THEY love YOU is just a crutch, right? Sooner

or later you have to let go and stand on your own two feet before you become totally codependent?!

[FWIW]

Try complete Non-Contact with your affair, and give it a while. You'll get over her before long.

 

Then, when your broken heart has healed, you'll be facing life in a more positive light without the lovesick feelings. When you get there, you'll see your marriage in a different way. Is it really so bad? Just because it's a bit boring there's no reason to give up on it. Did you really expect bringing up two kids (and never going out) to be a barrel of laughs? At least TRY to get close to her one more time, it won't significantly change things if you really want out, and won't really make splitting up hugely more painful BUT if might just help you turn the corner and appreciate what you have. Count your blessings! Imagine how many ways life could be _much_ worse, like one of you coming down with a terminal or chronic illness. An easy life is easy to get bored with, that's for sure, but you should count yourself lucky you have time and space to get bored.

 

You say you can't talk to her? How have you managed all these years? Are you exaggerating? Have you lost sight of how well you really do get along? Do you find you can sit next to her for ages without having to say anything? You should consider that perhaps being able to do that means you are very comfortable with her, and that is a very valuable thing. I bet you have friends you have to keep talking to or else it feels rude, and then you've got better friends who can sit with you somewhere and a few moments can go by without saying anything - that is something to be treasured.

 

Do ask yourself if not being able to talk about _some_ things is really worth splitting up over. You need to fill your life with interesting diversions, to stop yourself getting bored. Then work on things to do together, and why are you always avoiding her. And accept that falling in love is a wonderful thing, but if you met your "The One" and stayed with her, then you'd never experience that initial rush ever again either. What's more important to you, a stable life (which may seem dull because of fewer highs and lows) or the excitement of meeting new women (and the agonies of breaking up with them)?

 

Give it time, and don't make a hasty decision while you're still getting over your affair, that you may regret. Your wife loves you, and you might just find the love you have had for her before comes back.

 

But if you end up recovered from your affair, and you start seriously fancying other women again, and you _still_ feel wrong about your wife, then you really must accept that you don't love her enough to stay with her. Be true to yourself when you're sure you're thinking straight, and have the courage do what's best for all of you.

Good luck!

[Ditherer]

Thanks, that sounds like good advice. Yes, it *IS* way too soon to think about my

marriage - I'm still thinking of my affair all the time.. it's constantly there,

nagging away.. how can she want to stay friends one minute, and then shut me out

of her life completely the same day? I've since found a lot about No Contact here

on LS, and I can see why she'd want to apply that against me, but it really hurts

from this end! I miss her, I'd start over with her OR accept her as only ever a

good friend, but I have to accept how she feels and I'm trying to move on and shut

it all away in the past where it belongs. Very hard, but has to be done. I'm still

guessing how she must feel about it all, will she ever say hello in the street

again, but that's not helping me move forwards. I have to let go, have to convince

myself somehow that it wouldn't have worked - although this upsets the part of me

that wants to cling on to the hope that she'll change her mind one day! If I force

myself to go off her, I'd miss out if she wanted to try again? That sounds daft

now that I've written it down, I must admit, haha.

But anyway, until the day arrives when I'm not thinking about her all the time, I

can't think about my wife as anything other than someone I just happen to live with.

 

And there's another thing I've just this moment realised - I'm not even interested

what The Wife does all day. I've never asked, we never discuss the day. With

Affair-Babe I knew what she was doing from one hour to the next! That just shows

how little I care what my other half gets up to, so long as she isn't spending

too much of our money, I don't care. I never have.

 

I feel like I've now had a taste of what it's like to be infatuated with someone

who really makes my day, I loved to talk to, loved to just BE with. It's blown

me away that I don't ever remember feeling like that about my wife.

 

I'm going to wait though. Last night we went out to a family BBQ, and it was

just like things used to be (when they were as good as they got) - I felt like

with my wife by my side I was part of something, she was there for me, and it

was quite nice. But I had been drinking! And when we got home having left our

older child behind for the night, we could easily have 'got it on'... but no,

neither of us were interested... but...

 

None of this has been about sex. I've gone without for over a year, and I've tried

to put it out of the equation in all this. I told my affair-babe quite clearly that

I don't pursue it, I'm just happy if it happens. It didn't. I'm not annoyed with

my marriage because of sex being absent, and I'm not considering leaving so that

I can get some with anyone else (not that I'd turn down a good offer!).

All my current crisis is about how I spend my life *OUT* of bed, *OFF* the

kitchen table, *NOT* halfway up the stairs, etc.

 

In another long thread here on LS it was said that the Bible says that a husband

and wife should not withhold from lovemaking. Does this tie in with my theory that

a couple who are comfortable with each other will be happily bound together by sex,

when without it they would drift apart? Did the writers know full well that if all

husbands and wives were paying enough attention to each other in the bedroom dept.,

their marriages would keep going and many of the ills of society would vanish?

 

Is it worth staying with someone just because making love makes life acceptable?

What about later in life when sex doesn't happen any more? What am I left with then?

Do I listen to my doubts that M is really right for me? Or is sex the Big Prize?

Would that bring me more contentment and validation than ANY feelings I'd ever get

from new relationships where I'd be delighted to be feeling the heady rush of falling

in love with someone new and exciting? Because I'm sure my affair this year brought

me moments of excitement that blew away anything I've ever experienced of "post-coital

bliss"! We can't be having sex in all the moments of our spare time, and I want a happy

warm fun life... does sex with The Wife have after-effects that last long enough to make

the tedious bits of life bearable? No, not as I remember it.

 

Do I really want that with my wife any more? Do I want to appreciate what I've got

again, put my current doubts aside, try and pretend to myself that nothing too bad

actually happened, conceal the truth from her (yet again), suppress the guilt of what

I've done behind her back, try to feel closer again, make love, and get drawn in

again? Is it at least worth a try to see if it changes anything? I am scared that

fullfilling sex and whatever chemicals that get released will trap me in a relationship

again that I'd rather give up on if I had the courage. What the heck *DO* I want?!

I hope the answer comes to me soon, because feeling this mixed-up is no picnic.

 

Thanks everyone. I'll be amazed if anyone else comments. Please amaze me!

[Iluvsiamese]

Personally, I feel that your problem is that you really want a fantasy. There are none of those out there, only reality. If you dump your wife and your kids etc. BE PREPARED. You will be undertaking a perpetual search and will find yourself perpetually disappointed. In the end, you will have diddly-squat to show for all of that.

 

It is not your life, your wife or anything else that is causing this--it is you. The newbie will always turn into the wife and become dull, unless you make an effort to change. Does this show up anywhere else in your life? Are you always wanting something more, something better, something different? You seem to have the idea that somehow you've been ripped off and you have the right to have more.

 

You need to take a hard look at yourself before you decide your wife isn't worthy of you and you hand her and your kids over to someone else. Because that is how it will be.

[Ditherer]

Thank-you...

I can see how this is all about *ME*, it's how *I* feel about it.. (how can it not be?)

but it seems like I'm being made to feel like a useless ****! I admit that if we really

aren't compatible after all, then YES - I made a huge mistake marrying her, and letting

it drag on all these years, and not having the guts to do anything about it, and then I

got close to another woman behind her back... hmmm, yes I *AM* a bit spineless I guess.

But if I can stand up for myself: it's because I've never been sure what to do about it,

and I didn't want to hurt her. *NOW* I think I've got the chance to bail out and actually

do the *right* thing at last (in the long run.. but how can I tell if would turn out

happy?). I can't imagine us being happy with this relationship for the rest of our lives,

so isn't it easier to be honest about it and try a separation?

 

What I *don't* like is being made to feel that there's something deeply wrong with me,

that I can't get on with someone and force it to work out. I'm sure I *would* make the

effort (if I had to) with the right person who I click with properly on the right levels

from the outset. It's not a question of my wife not being "worthy of me", it's a question

of us simply not being right for each other. I'm not worthy of her, obviously, if I can't

talk, won't talk. If whatever love I had for her has gone, or so little remains that it

makes a mockery of my vows, who's kidding who if I try and stay with her for the sake of

it?

 

No I'm *NOT* always seeking more, better, different. I've held down the same job for longer

than I've been with her, I've done a voluntary-work activity one night a week for almost

as long, my whole personality can be defined as 'conservative' - I stick with what I know.

I don't squander my money (that's why we've enough savings to separate comfortably) or

continually 'better myself' by chucking away things that work just to have the new flashier

model. I've always driven second-hand cars, and if we spend money it's usually on the

house for things that are an investment (extending it) or making things more comfortable

rather than more impressive. I don't show off. I'm modest and humble, quiet. I dress to

blend in rather than stand out. I enjoy my existing CD collection rather than buy new ones.

I don't think I've been "ripped off" by life, I think it's been VERY kind to me, *SO*

kind in fact that half my problem is that I've never had it difficult, and a divorce

would be a stressful thing.. I'm not altogether sure how I'd manage with that and living

on my own. My whole problem right now is that I think *I* messed up my life by settling

for the wrong partner (I'm taking the blame here) and I want it to stop.

 

Maybe I *AM* deeply flawed? Maybe any other women I could possibly attract would only want

me if (like my wife) they were also dumb enough not to want more, and also lacked the

ambition to find someone with more to offer than I do.. if they are also happy to stagnate

and do very little with their lives but just muddle on through. Or am I too hard on myself?

Am I wrong to want someone I'm *happy* to spend time with, no matter what we're doing?

Someone I *WANT* to go places with, and try new things with? At the moment she's just

annoying, an awkward presence I'm not comfortable with - but maybe that's because I'm

still trying to get over falling for someone else? The trouble is, I don't remember

feeling a great deal better about her BEFORE I had the affair (and obviously I wouldn't

have been so keen on an affair if I was happy - it wouldn't have happened).

 

So what is The Right Thing? I could grin and bear it, and try to fool everyone that I'm

happy, and if I *CAN* fool them, then Wife and Children have a stable life. But I don't

think I can manage that, and although it sounds selfish, I've only got the one life

so why do I have to "grin and BEAR" a lifestyle that I'm not getting on with?

If I leave, my Wife and Kids get to stay in the house with the bills paid, the only

difference is that I won't be there. The kids will know I still love them, pay for them,

see them when I can. The Wife will be horribly hurt that all her dreams have been shot

down in flames (a thousand times worse than the pain I've recently felt when my affair

went nowhere) but hopefully when she comes out of it she'll find someone better for her

than I ever have been. As for *MY* outcome, I don't know.. maybe I'll be alone for

ever. Maybe I'll find someone here and there and it won't last. Maybe I'll find someone

so wonderful I'll do whatever it takes to make it work this time - because this time

it will be based on genuine love and respect. I've no idea, but at the moment.. just

the *CHANCE* to have another go at life... seems a whole lot better than grinning and

bearing what I've got.

 

But I will give it a while (because making a bad decision terrifies me) to see if my

feelings change. I want to be as sure as I can be that I'm doing what I really need

to do, however hard it is. It scares me senseless to leave my house and children, and

set up in a flat on my own for the first time in my life, with my income being

stretched more thinly than ever before.. with no guarantees that I'll cope, be happy,

or ever find the soulmate I crave.. why would I even *consider* such a thing if I

didn't have **huge** doubts about my marriage working out? It's NOT as if I'm thinking

"yay.. I can leave all my worries behind and live it up as a single man!" .. although

there is something in that I find appealing after all these years ;o)

 

Thanks. Anyone else ever been here?

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

....next time, maybe a few more paragraghs, and let the program make your line breaks, eh?

 

Your thread is seriously hard to read. So, I thought I'd mention that earlier suggestion to you again. Not trying to be a wise-guy, but maybe you'd attract a little more input that way.

 

Anyway, have you considered midlife crisis as a possible culprit in your current dissatisfaction? There's quite a bit of info on the net if you google for it. There are, I believe, some physiological aspects to it that manifest themselves emotionally...listlessness, dissatisfaction, anger even.

 

I'm not saying this is necessarily the explanation in your case, but it's worthy of consideration. Midlife crisis can affect men as early on as their late-30's.

 

If you've ALWAYS been unhappy in your marriage, that's a different thing. But you owe it to yourself to investigate the possibilities. The sad fact is....no one has any guarantees in life. All you can do is exclude the possibilities for your dissatisfaction one by one, and then act on whatever you find left.

 

Your infatuation with this OW is most certainly coloring your judgement. Infatuation will do that. It's much like an addiction in that respect. You get a nice little dopamine fix with thoughts and actions regarding the object of your infatuation.

 

People who are an interference between you and your 'drug of choice', will naturally attract your enmity.

 

For that reason, the infatuation itself must also be eliminated from your 'list of suspects' in regard to your current state of dissatisfaction. Otherwise, you don't know if you're really unhappy or not. It takes time to separate yourself from an emotional connection like that. It's a process.

 

The loss of an emotional affair can leave you in a state of withdrawal. And while no course is guaranteed to bring you happiness, it's extremely difficult to make those kind of decisions while your judgement is clouded.

[Iluvsiamese]

I'm sorry if you felt that was an attack. It was meant as a wake up call. Yes, I was in a similar position to you. I realized after 14 years that I married the wrong person. However, the resemblance ends there. He did a complete sales job on me and convinced me that he was madly in love with me, couldn't live without me, etc. and rushed me into marriage. The truth was, he couldn't have cared less about me and admitted that he never did but that he married me because he "wanted to get married and have kids." Why, I will never know because he had zero interest in us. As far as I can figure, we were nothing more than objects to acquire, there was certainly no caring involved and we understood clearly that we were a gross inconvenience to him. His behaviour became increasingly close to abusive and there was at least once that I picked up the phone to call 911 as I was afraid that he was about to physically abuse one or both of the kids. I finally faced the fact that this was the way it was and nothing would ever change. Did I want to spend the rest of my days like this? NO! Is this the picture of marriage that I wanted my kids to see and emulate? NO! So I left.

 

However, you need to really look hard at what it is you are looking for and why you think you want it. To some extent, I can understand your dissatisfaction. BUT all relationships will deteriorate into what you currently have UNLESS you create the excitement you crave within that relationship. So is it the relationship that is wrong or is it that you are craving the initial excitement? So many people just settle into a dull routine and fail to connect with their spouses. They take them for granted and everything else seems so much more interesting. Others have different likes and dislikes, more fascinating hobbies, better education etc. The thing is, the grass is the greenest on the side of the fence that you water and tend. The rest is mostly illusion when seen from a distance. You will still have to weed and water, no matter which side of the fence you are on. It is up to you what you want to make of it.

 

I agree that the affair is making it difficult for you to see clearly and objectively. You need to step away from that before you can make an informed decision. Maybe a divorce would be the right thing for both you and your wife, but you might find yourself wishing that it had never happened. My current guy has been divorced for 8+ years now and I am the second long term relationship since that took place. However, he is still mooning over his wife. Their relationship was troubled to say the least, but they just gave up and he has regretted it ever since. His inability to let this go is destroying our relationship and there is nothing that I can do about it. Because he is clinging to his former marriage, he has hurt himself, his former gf, her kids, and is now hurting me and my kids and still causing himself misery. Be very, very sure of what you are doing before you burn your bridges. Going back is pretty well impossible once you have taken that step.

[Ditherer]

Thanks. I'll surprise you all with a relatively short post for a change *grin* (looks fine at 768x1024!)

 

I've been recommended a book "Too good to leave, too bad to stay", which I'm going to order.

Apparently I should be aware that it might make it a bit too easy to justify leaving, with

questions like "If God said it was fine to leave, would that be a relief?" (YES!!!) but I'm

still waiting until I'm not thinking of my affair all the time, and then I won't make up my

mind until I've read the book. I do think I need the courage to separate the consequences of

leaving (and believe in myself that'll we'll all cope) from the figuring out of whether

the marriage is worth repairing or not. At the moment although I'm still mourning the loss

of my affair, I find myself eagerly considering another one.. so I'm very nessed up, yes?!

 

I wouldn't actually *just* leave anyway. I'd have a trial separation, and that might throw

an entirely different light on things - I might end up answering the book's questions

differently if I realise from a distance that I was just way too dumb to realise how good

she actually is. As one of my friends says though : "That's not love." - which says it all.

 

I'll let you know what happens, in case anyone's interested. Any more thoughts welcome in

the meantime. Thanks for the support so far.

[Ditherer]

An update, in case anyone's bothered. Maybe I'll post my experiences here as the

most boring blog ever written

 

Still No Contact with my affair babe.. still on my mind way too much.. but I'm not

getting upset any more. I've accepted she has a reason to not want to stay in touch

(although I'd LOVE to know exactly why, but I can guess) and I'll wait happily

enough to see if anything ever happens again. Maybe it was a lucky escape - I've no

idea whether we were *really* suited.. it fell apart while we were still trying to

impress each other. No idea what a proper date would have been like. She's either

a complete waste of space (how DARE she ignore me!) or maybe fate will bring us

together again.. perhaps.. I doubt it.

 

At least I'm not particularly depressed. I can laugh at things, I'm interested in

my mundane interests again. Life goes on. My marriage is more of a priority now.

 

I've bought the stay/leave book, and I'm working my way through it. I'm up to question

#11 and I'm having trouble answering many of them in any definite way. There is an

online version at {Link Deleted} and the way I'm

answering at the moment it says it may be best to leave.

 

Leaving still seems way too scary to contemplate, what with all the upset it would

cause. I feel like I'm trapped in my life, and I can't get out. The question like

"what if God gave you permission to leave?" is about the only positive "YES!" I've

found so far. I'm even having trouble answering the question "do you actually LIKE

your partner?" ! Obviously I *like* her.. don't I?!! Then why do I avoid her all

the time.. and have trouble even talking to her? It can't be *JUST* the aftermath

of the emotional affair, surely? It's bad now, but it hasn't been great for years.

 

Tonight I remembered something else from my depressed past. I was into mIRC for a

while - online IRC chat. I chatted to someone in Australia.. swapped pics with her,

felt quite close after hours of chatting.. got REALLY down when it all blew over.

I really *do* fall for women easily, and enjoy it, miss it terribly when I'm not

experiencing it. So how can I fight that? Do I want to fight it? Can I do my

marriage justice when my heart isn't in it? Is it more honest to admit I married

too young, too inexperienced, I didn't get to sow my wild oats like I should have?

 

I remember an online chat with another lovely young lady, who tried to cheer me

up.. she went WELL out of her way to type in a long story about loads of starfish

being washed up by the tide.. a young lad rescuing as many as possible by carrying

them back to the water.. someone saying what's the point, you'll never rescue them

all.. "but at least I can do what I can" - it was a lovely effort to cheer me up.

I remembered this tonight and it came flooding back to me just how depressed I

was back then.. stuck in an uninspired marriage based on nothing real. This is

what I face all the time, it's what I live with. My lifestyle isn't terrible, but

my wife just doesn't interest me. I don't even WANT to rescue my marriage. I'm

treating her coldly because I'm SCARED to make things better.. I want out. And

yet I'm still not sure I *CAN*. This is ridiculous! It's based upon what? A deeply

held belief that we're not compatible, even though we *CAN* be happy-ish if I

ignore how thick she can be, and how it turns me off?

 

I shall continue reading. I have a feeling that by the time I finish the book

my mind will be made up to leave.. but I still won't be able to face it. I'm so lame.

 

I find myself thinking why does it have to be such a big deal, this "leaving someone"

business.. like I'd prefer it if relationships were more 'disposable'. Thinking

further though, I know that would make for a horrible world.. I realise I only feel

like this about my *current* relatonship.. I'd think a lot more highly of a better

one. That should be telling me something!

 

Aren't relationships all relative though? I'm sure there could be many bad ones

where what I've got now would be a comparative luxury, whereas there are countless

other GOOD relationships where the couple would pity me for my situation. That should

be telling me something too - bad relationships should be fixed (by working at them)

or bailed out of (if beyond repair).. and the fact that much better ones exist should

tell me I should aim that high and not settle for less.

 

Oh fudge! I've written too much again. Back to that book... bye for now!

[Iluvsiamese]

When was the last time you put any effort into your marriage? When was the last time you laughed with your wife? When was the last time you flirted with her? Did something fun and crazy with her?

 

You could consider having an affair with her for a change.

 

Pardon me for saying so and please don't feel like this is an attack, but try to see it from her perspective. Would you consider yourself interesting to her as a husband? Maybe she finds you colossally dull and unimaginative. She could feel that you are practically a stranger to her since you avoid her. If the roles were reversed, how would you feel about this? You sound so focused on yourself that I question whether you even know your wife or not. Been there, done that. My ex didn't know me, and didn't care to know me. So I traded him in, lol. Try making some effort to connect--you might be surprised. Are you avoiding her because you feel guilty about all of this or because you resent her for being a part of the trap of your own creation? Or maybe both?

 

BTW, the affair, since it fizzled when you were still trying to impress would not have lasted. That is generally the best of times and if it didn't make it through that then it was all pee-pee, ka-ka, no substance.

[Ditherer]

Thanks.. I won't take that as an attack, but as I said above.. the problem is that I'm SCARED

to try and make things better, because no matter how good it gets I don't think it'll ever be

as good as it should be. Something's fundamentally wrong. I think I'm about to answer the

book's question #11 as a NO (Do I actually LIKE my partner as a person?). All day at work

I never even think about her. If I'm out with friends she never even enters my mind. I never

want to rush back home to her. I don't enjoy being with her. How can a marriage survive that?!

Would you enjoy being with a friend who you couldn't be bothered to talk to? Anything you say

would be way over their head, ignored, or if they do respond it would be tediously uninteresting,

and each sentence would be littered with so many vague "you-knows", unspecified "thingys" and

other unfathomable references that you simply can't work out what the heck they mean?! There's

no joy in trying to communicate with someone so fundamentally mismatched.

 

I wouldn't *CARE* if she found me colossally dull and unimaginative - maybe *she'd* leave *me*,

that would make it easier. I'm interested in many things and will happily read a newspaper from

cover to cover.. whereas she'll sit watching low-brow TV (soaps and "reality" rubbish).. never

reads.. or witters on about nothing to her one friend on the phone. Or with her mum. Or mine.

All they ever seem to talk about is other people and their problems. I can't stand it, I have

to leave the room.

 

We can't *DO* much with two kids, one of which is still young enough to guzzle a bottle of milk

before bedtime, so a social life is limited. We do have plenty of willing babysitters, but we

never make use of that and go out as a couple.. for a variety of reasons. No-one to socialise

with (that would suit both of us), and if I can't talk to her at home (with the kids to keep

us amused) then I *REALLY* don't want to spend time with her alone.

 

Do I know my wife at all? Of course I do, after nearly 20 years with her. That's why I don't

think I can handle another 20 or more! Yes, I resent being trapped.. if I leave I'll be

letting her down even more (is that possible? It would be doing her a favour?).. I dread

to think how she'd take it and cope.. it would affect the kids.. it would devastate my

unstable parents.. so *MANY* people would be disgusted with me. And on top of THAT, I don't

even know how *I* would manage either, although I try to think positive that I'd manage.

Maybe I've just got an irrational fear that she's the only woman who will ever love me

 

I really feel liking I'm wasting my life in this state of 'relationship ambivalence', and

yet when you see how other people suffer great hardships, can I really complain if my life

is bearable enough to not depress me hugely? I get by. Am I a spoilt brat to want more?!

 

+ I agree about the ka-ka. But I keep holding on.. maybe all that *really* put her off was the

fact that I was married? Bah. I'm too dumb about it, I have to let go. I suspect I'd have ended

up really annoyed with her inflexible demanding nature, no matter how infatuated I have been.

It upsets me that I had several chances to keep her as a very close friend, but I kept pushing

for more until it soured things so much that she simply doesn't want to know me AT ALL any more.

I've always wanted a *really* close girl friend, that would be cool (but The Wife wouldn't know

about it, so I'd still be deceiving *her*) BUT it takes two to be good friends.. if she doesn't

want me in her life that's up to her. It's a shame because we both share certain problems (we

met in a self-help group) and we could have supported each other. It has also broken up a

spin-off social group - 4 of us were meeting for a drink twice a month to keep in touch.. this

won't be possible now if two of us can't face each other any more. Damn!

[Ditherer]

I am well and truly stuck in this state of 'relationship ambivalence'. I've finished reading the book, and I still don't know what to do. Many of my answers to the questions are "don't know" or "not applicable" or "a bit of yes, a bit of no". Many answers point to the relationship being fine.. stay. But there are are also answers that point to me being happier if I leave. The book says ANY answers that reveal I'd be happier leaving means I should. Yet STILL I'm stuck with the 'balance scales' situation of weighing things up (even though the book says I shouldn't).. I don't know what to do. It feels like a waste of time, that book. It hasn't really told me anything I don't know, and I still can't face staying... can't face leaving either... still can't look The Wife in the eye... she's still asking "Do you love me?" and I have to lie to keep her happy.. not that she really believes it, I'm sure.

 

Maybe if I just hit the bottle it'll numb the pain. What a mess.

[RecordProducer]

I read your whole first post, but not the rest. It sounds like you're looking for permission to leave your wife, yes. Indeed your marriage is fake, you don't even have sex anymore, you don't love her. It's not fair to her or you, you're both still young and can have a great future separately. He chances in her late 30's with two small children are not so bright as yours as a man who will stay on his own though.

I was just wondering how come you don't feel sorry for your children, for leaving them. I as a woman and mother of two could never live without my kids no matter what. You seem to be more obsessed with your own welfare than your children's.

But you need to do what you need to do so go ahead, leave.

 

It's shameful that you're worried how you can manage on your own and blatantly admit that you need someone to take care of you. You shouldn't separate temporarily and see if things work out with F. If you don't want to live with your wife anymore, just tell her you want a divorce, explain to her how you feel, that you don't love her and that you will pay for the mortgage and see the kids regularly. I think a parent should always think about his children first so make sure they are not too traumatized by the whole situation.

 

You did screw up by marrying the wrong girl, didn't you?

Cheer up, it's not the end of the world! Just don't be so childish and selfish. You have two children of your own. Spare them the pain as much as you can.

[Ditherer]

Thanks for reading some of it, at least! If you'd read on a bit you'd have seen that seeing if things could work out with F is now impossible.. she's given up on me and won't talk.

 

Of course I'd feel bad about leaving my children, but I only see them for an hour or two in the evening as it is, much of which 'quality time' sees me away in other rooms doing chores, while The Wife is busy getting annoyed with them and swearing and cursing at them. It's not a great atmosphere. I think that if I saw them once or twice a week on my own, away from all that, it would probably be better in many ways. I wouldn't be abandoning them, I'd still be there for them, and supporting them. Not ideal, I know, but a lot of people seem to agree that it's better for them to know that both their parents are happy (even if apart), rather than unhappily together. If I left this house I'd only go as far away as a mile or two (there's a good reason for that but I can't say why) so they'd know I was not too far away. Selfish? Yeah, a bit I suppose. But as my friends say, you only get one life.. and kids aren't young for long.. etc etc (all the usual excuses!)

 

Today I'm even more mixed up. We all accept we can't all live a jet-set lifestyle travelling around all the world's most exclusive resorts with the rich and famous, we know we won't have a mansion of our own with 10 bedrooms, tennis courts, swimming pool, a home cinema room, a supercar for every day of the week, etc. I accept I'll never sleep with a drop-dead gorgeous woman.. I can accept that there are all sorts of pleasant experiences I'll never enjoy. So why am I so hung up on that 'falling in love' feeling? Why do I yearn for it so much? Can't I just accept it's one of those things I'll never experience again? Is it such an important thing after all.. to have a partner I can really talk to like my best friend.. that I WANT to come home to and spend time with? Yes - how can a marriage be worth having WITHOUT that? And yet so many other things are just right. My wife is

almost perfect for me in so many other ways.. why can't I appreciate all that?

I'm not getting anywhere with this! *sigh*

 

Thanks

[Ditherer]

I've reviewed my no-?-yes answers to the book's questions, to interpret them in Stay/Leave terms. I went through the book again, intending to put :

S for anything that REALLY points to Stay being very feasible,

L for Leave if it was very definitely pointing that way, or

? for not sure.

Out of 36 questions I ended up with lot of "Not Sures", just the one Stay, and a whopping TWELVE Leaves!

 

I guess that should point me in the direction of leaving, huh? That was the consensus last night with some friends of mine, too... I ended up getting so upset that I was blubbing as I drove home. I *know* what I really should do, but I still can't face it. What a coward I am.

 

Still, it made a change to be tearful looking forwards to what I have to face in the future, rather than tearful about letting go of the Relationship That Never Was (the 'affair') back in the past.

 

I wonder if I'll ever have the courage to face up to it. I'm really not doing anyone any favours by continuing like this, yet I feel totally stuck. I've reached a fork in the road and both routes look equally horrible. One way looks passable enough even if it's a bit bumpy.. but it looks like it ends up going somewhere foul and unpleasant... the other way looks absolutely horrendous to begin with.. and *MIGHT* end up alright, or just as awful, or just possibly it could turn into the best road I've ever travelled. What a choice! I think I'll be parked here for a while watching the other traffic, *grin*

 

"Life's What You Make It" never seemed so appropriate or scary as it does now - as it *IS* totally up to me how my life pans out from here. Eeek!

[Ditherer]

I can't win. I had this thought that I might as well give up women altogether - but if I just grin and bear a lonely life I might as well stay married LOL

 

I wish I could see some sort of progress but I'm still feeling mixed up *sigh*

[Trashman]

I was just wondering how come you don't feel sorry for your children, for leaving them. I as a woman and mother of two could never live without my kids no matter what. You seem to be more obsessed with your own welfare than your children's.

 

I think a parent should always think about his children first so make sure they are not too traumatized by the whole situation.

 

So it's better to paint on a happy face and live a lie for 18 years? What then? Is it less traumatic for a 20 year old to learn his father does not love his mother than it is for a 2 year old? What does a grown person think about their ability to read emotions and understand others when they discover their parents have been pulling a fast one on them for the last 20 years?

 

Dither, you do what you have to do man. You have found yourself in a hard position. How do you know you won't love your children even more once you are happy? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there is no better environment for children than a home where both parents are madly in love with each other. What I am not so certain about, however, is which situation is better: parents living together but not happy, or happy but not living together.

 

Someone made a good point though. If you move out, the door is open for another man. Your ex will probably remarry, and you have to understand you are risking just about anyone moving into your bed and becoming the man of the house. The kids may still call you Daddy, but the new guy will technically be the father because he's the ruler of the home they will be living in (depending on how much your wife lets him get away with). Think about that. I know I have been.

[Ditherer]

Thanks mate. I think I can handle the kids issue. We'd all cope somehow.

 

I think I'm making good progress on the Getting Over Her front, too (affair-babe). I know she wasn't 100% about me, I wasn't all that sure about her, it was great getting to know her and I felt like I fell for her bigtime but I really don't know where it would have ended up. Nowhere, I reckon, to be realistic. If she was really my soulmate, The One, we'd be together right now already, yes? And we're not.. so that's that (although try telling that to the other half of my tiny mind that's always making excuses for her!). Maybe I'll never speak to her again. Maybe I got off lightly. Maybe she'd have been a nightmare. Time to move on. Let her go.. and if she ever reappears in my life it can be a total surprise.

 

And I'm not even bothered about looking for anyone else now. The Awful Decision is now entirely to do with lifestyle - do I keep on living a lie which is bearable enough in some ways.. or make a clean break to try life totally alone and learn to be comfortable with my own company? Being single can't be so bad, after a life this stifled, surely.

 

.. that's the toughie that I'm not really much closer to solving.. although I'm moving towards accepting that leaving really *has* to be faced, however unpleasant it will be. I don't know where I'll find the courage from though. Four divorced people I know have told me you have to hit rock bottom before you make a move. I don't know if I'll ever get there. On Friday the first song on the car radio that morning was Feel by Robbie Williams.. very appropriate.. I thought I was up to singing along, but as my voice faltered and cracked and I nearly blubbed again... I realised maybe I'm not coping with this very well after all.. how much further away is Rock Bottom?!

 

2005 has been a VERY interesting year. I don't think the fun and games are over yet, either.

 

Cheers, have a nice week.