So upset for firing an employee

[Veryconfused12345]

Lots of people scream & cry that they are going to call a lawyer. Let him rant. It's probably just hot air.

 

 

If you have the documentation that he was fired for cause, you & your company will be fine.

 

I’ve put together all the documentation I have from the last three months showing a lot of dropped projects and some I thought he was managing that were never started. I’m really beating myself up about the fact that I should have known earlier how much was being dropped but I guess if I had done any more than I was already doing I would have essentially been doing his job in its entirety. It’s a tough line to walk between not wanting to micromanage but still trusting a new employee and go on faith that they’ll do what they say they will.

[Veryconfused12345]

It was my first time firing an employee—and as I delivered the news and watched him leave the building.

 

In fact, I learned three unexpected lessons that day, and it’s influenced the way I’ve managed my team ever since.I expected that my life would instantly become easier. As it turns out, I was in for a pretty rough couple weeks. I had to immediately sort through all of his work and assign it to other members.

 

Yep I’m definitely experiencing that – it was anxiety at the dismissal then a small amount of relief muddled with guilt and now a quiet sense of panic as I’ve unpicked the sheer amount of work he let slide. I genuinely feel like I’ve lost three months of work I should have just been buckling down and doing myself. I essentially spent my entire workday managing this guy, calming down arguments with him and other members of staff, etc and that was with the expectation that he was actually doing the projects. But instead I’m just back to square one. I have to say in the past week I’ve felt my anxiety levels shoot through the roof. It’s really made me feel wrung out and ambivalent about the job which is a bit disappointing as I absolutely loved it when I started…. How long did it take for things to return to “normal” or at least a better state than when the employee was there?

[Veryconfused12345]

Just the fact you had to cover his work should have been proof enough you did the right thing.

 

I have been on both sides of this in my past. I have had to fire people that were my friends and I have been fired before...in fact more than once I have been canned. It is what it is.

 

I should qualify this by stating I eventually did have a physical confrontation about a year later with a former boss in front of his wife and kids at a social event that was kind of embarrassing to both of us but that is what happens sometime in chance encounters with people from your past. I've never been accused of being a real easygoing person, and have been described as a "Master Bridge Arsonist", so take what I say with a truckload of salt. lol

 

Usually when we are fired we immediately want to lash out and do anything we can to save some sort of face. But that is what HR is for...to handle these things, as it is part of their job description. The former employee will do whatever he can to make this process as difficult as possible simply because he can.

 

Don't let it get to you,. Part of being a boss is accepting you may have to do some unpopular and even some things you may find personally reprehensible. It goes with the job. You should not feel guilty, especially if the guy was not pulling his weight at only 3 months out. That's a sign of a problem employee.

 

Thanks for this, it’s helpful to hear from someone who’s come at the issue from both sides. I know this sounds anxious as I know how emotionally charged this can be that this guy might try doing something aggressive, either professionally or physically.

 

It’s an interesting experience to do both something I know is so traumatic for the person on the other side of the table but simultaneously the “right move.” In no other forum other than the workplace are power differentials so clearly set out from the beginning and it’s been really odd to interact with someone in a way that would be so uncharacteristic of me in any other settings.

 

It sounds like you felt a lot of anger at the time that you had your run-in with your ex-boss. Do you mind me asking how long its taken you to make peace with it?

[JuneL]

I think one important pre-requisite of being an effective leader is to be able to act tough when needed.

 

Thanks for this, it’s helpful to hear from someone who’s come at the issue from both sides. I know this sounds anxious as I know how emotionally charged this can be that this guy might try doing something aggressive, either professionally or physically.

 

It’s an interesting experience to do both something I know is so traumatic for the person on the other side of the table but simultaneously the “right move.” In no other forum other than the workplace are power differentials so clearly set out from the beginning and it’s been really odd to interact with someone in a way that would be so uncharacteristic of me in any other settings.

 

It sounds like you felt a lot of anger at the time that you had your run-in with your ex-boss. Do you mind me asking how long its taken you to make peace with it?

[Space Ritual]

Thanks for this, it’s helpful to hear from someone who’s come at the issue from both sides. I know this sounds anxious as I know how emotionally charged this can be that this guy might try doing something aggressive, either professionally or physically.

 

It’s an interesting experience to do both something I know is so traumatic for the person on the other side of the table but simultaneously the “right move.” In no other forum other than the workplace are power differentials so clearly set out from the beginning and it’s been really odd to interact with someone in a way that would be so uncharacteristic of me in any other settings.

 

It sounds like you felt a lot of anger at the time that you had your run-in with your ex-boss. Do you mind me asking how long its taken you to make peace with it?

 

It was a long process. It was actually the straw that broke the camels back with my substance abuse and violence issues. That was the last time in my life I drank alcohol or did any narcotics, October 6, 1996. I went cold turkey and have not picked up a drink or a drug in over 20 years.

 

So in a way me making a total ass of myself was the best thing I ever did. It was the wakeup call I needed. I already had a pretty checkered past with a couple of stretches in Illinois' Finest Correctional Facilities and was probably headed for another visit as already having a record, I was not getting real prime employment. I had a lot of resentment built up over the years because I never wanted to look in the mirror at the monster I had become and never accepted that all of my problems were my doing alone.

 

The sad and scary thing about it was I actually looked for the opportunity to confront this guy after he had fired me. And it was nearly a year later when our paths crossed. I didn't even flinch that his family was with him. I had about 10 seconds to decide if I really wanted to make such an idiot out of myself in public...yep I sure did..went in with both barrels and it was like a bad episode of a Bravo show.

 

I have spent the last third of my life trying to atone in some way for the damage I caused so many people. It was not the first time I operated under the assumption that Violence was an acceptable method of dispute resolution among adults. It was however, the last.

 

On the other side of that coin, although I have been in a management position as well and have had to release people to their destiny, I realized along the way I myself really was not management material, as I seemed to rise to my level of incompetence every time I was promoted somewhere. So again I have been fired more than once...

 

I still feel you need not second guess yourself on this..again, when sit down and delve into what little the employee you canned accomplished, you'll soon see that had you not done it, someone else would have. I cannot stress enough that you have nothing to feel bad about.

[shellybing]

Hi everyone,

 

I was wondering if I could get an outside opinion from the lovely people on this community?

 

I'm fairly new to management and hired three employees on behalf of my company about 3 months ago. Unfortunately one of our hires just wasn't working out - he fought with several other long-time employees, blamed others when projects went badly, went missing from work a few times, etc. We did give him warnings and offer support but it just wasn't working.

 

I have had a lot of support from the team here and deep-down know this was the right decision. However I've felt sick with guilt and anxiety all week. At my most paranoid I'm scared of retribution but I also just feel terrible for having to do this. The alternative was to let him stay in the org to avoid confrontation and have him continue to upset coworkers and make mistakes which I knew would just create low-level tension indefinitely.

 

Any thoughts on this, has anyone had to deal with this experience as management? I've really wound myself in to quite a state thinking about this and have frankly, found the whole process one of the worst experiences of my life and I don't want to hurt anyone.

 

I have had to fire 3 people. I can say that while it is not nice situation to be in, if has been carefully thought through, it is almost always worth it.

 

I remember once a woman I had hired (for a group home for disabled children and teens) as an aide and relief, would constantly be late and leave tasks half done. It was her responsibility to tidy up the home, and mopping the floor was one of those tasks we all hated. But we mopped. And sometimes, she would come in and say, well I only mopped half the floor. Then, when there was an injury with another employee, she just would not show up. She cancelled because of snow, and that was why we needed her - in case people could not show in case of emergency. It felt off all the way around. She had a happy face and did most of her job, but it was not really a good fit. Later on, after I had left that job, I had been going through some records. I had an audit, and though I had been gone for 3 years, I was required to save these records in case of audit. So I did. I saved them and moved them with me over to a new state. We'll I got audited. I did not get audited on her file, but during the same month, a news story came up while the files were fresh in my head. This woman and her husband had been charged with child pornography - and we took care of disabled children and teens in that home.

I called the police immediately, and they confirmed the story was true, and gave me reassurance that what was found was not anything to do with her employment. That was slightly reassuring, and I am glad she was never really left alone for long periods with the children.

 

Sometimes, things turn out for the best - even if it is difficult now. Yes, somebody lost their job, and it is a difficult task to do. But those rules are in place for a reason. <3 I hope you are feeling better soon.

[stixx]

Hi everyone,

 

I was wondering if I could get an outside opinion from the lovely people on this community?

 

I'm fairly new to management and hired three employees on behalf of my company about 3 months ago. Unfortunately one of our hires just wasn't working out - he fought with several other long-time employees, blamed others when projects went badly, went missing from work a few times, etc. We did give him warnings and offer support but it just wasn't working.

 

I have had a lot of support from the team here and deep-down know this was the right decision. However I've felt sick with guilt and anxiety all week. At my most paranoid I'm scared of retribution but I also just feel terrible for having to do this. The alternative was to let him stay in the org to avoid confrontation and have him continue to upset coworkers and make mistakes which I knew would just create low-level tension indefinitely.

 

Any thoughts on this, has anyone had to deal with this experience as management? I've really wound myself in to quite a state thinking about this and have frankly, found the whole process one of the worst experiences of my life and I don't want to hurt anyone.

 

You didnt hurt anyone. This person hurt themself by being a bad worker so dont feel bad. A busines dont need an unproductive worker. Adios.

 

I have fired a few people in my day and I never gave it any thought afterwards. Being a bit hard on yourself maybe.

[Veryconfused12345]

I think one important pre-requisite of being an effective leader is to be able to act tough when needed.

 

Thanks JuneL - you're right, being tough and drawing boundaries is something I'll continue to work on. I noticed that this guy would get a request from me and than almost "check it" against my supervisor for confirmation. Maybe he just felt more comfortable with my supervisor but it would really make me sad to think it's because as a younger woman he didn't trust my authority.

[Veryconfused12345]

It was a long process. It was actually the straw that broke the camels back with my substance abuse and violence issues. That was the last time in my life I drank alcohol or did any narcotics, October 6, 1996. I went cold turkey and have not picked up a drink or a drug in over 20 years.

 

So in a way me making a total ass of myself was the best thing I ever did. It was the wakeup call I needed. I already had a pretty checkered past with a couple of stretches in Illinois' Finest Correctional Facilities and was probably headed for another visit as already having a record, I was not getting real prime employment. I had a lot of resentment built up over the years because I never wanted to look in the mirror at the monster I had become and never accepted that all of my problems were my doing alone.

 

The sad and scary thing about it was I actually looked for the opportunity to confront this guy after he had fired me. And it was nearly a year later when our paths crossed. I didn't even flinch that his family was with him. I had about 10 seconds to decide if I really wanted to make such an idiot out of myself in public...yep I sure did..went in with both barrels and it was like a bad episode of a Bravo show.

 

I have spent the last third of my life trying to atone in some way for the damage I caused so many people. It was not the first time I operated under the assumption that Violence was an acceptable method of dispute resolution among adults. It was however, the last.

 

On the other side of that coin, although I have been in a management position as well and have had to release people to their destiny, I realized along the way I myself really was not management material, as I seemed to rise to my level of incompetence every time I was promoted somewhere. So again I have been fired more than once...

 

I still feel you need not second guess yourself on this..again, when sit down and delve into what little the employee you canned accomplished, you'll soon see that had you not done it, someone else would have. I cannot stress enough that you have nothing to feel bad about.

 

Thanks Space Ritual, It sounds like you’ve done a lot of hard work to get to a place where you can look back from the other side. Please don’t be so hard on yourself, it sounds like you’re very self-aware and thoughtful about the choices you’ve made along the way so unlike some people who are constantly running from their mistakes, you’re owning them and making amends. Also, by the very fact you’re here in this forum and being so kind as to respond to a stranger’s issues with compassion and support means that you clearly had compassion as a manager.

[Veryconfused12345]

I have had to fire 3 people. I can say that while it is not nice situation to be in, if has been carefully thought through, it is almost always worth it.

 

I remember once a woman I had hired (for a group home for disabled children and teens) as an aide and relief, would constantly be late and leave tasks half done. It was her responsibility to tidy up the home, and mopping the floor was one of those tasks we all hated. But we mopped. And sometimes, she would come in and say, well I only mopped half the floor. Then, when there was an injury with another employee, she just would not show up. She cancelled because of snow, and that was why we needed her - in case people could not show in case of emergency. It felt off all the way around. She had a happy face and did most of her job, but it was not really a good fit. Later on, after I had left that job, I had been going through some records. I had an audit, and though I had been gone for 3 years, I was required to save these records in case of audit. So I did. I saved them and moved them with me over to a new state. We'll I got audited. I did not get audited on her file, but during the same month, a news story came up while the files were fresh in my head. This woman and her husband had been charged with child pornography - and we took care of disabled children and teens in that home.

I called the police immediately, and they confirmed the story was true, and gave me reassurance that what was found was not anything to do with her employment. That was slightly reassuring, and I am glad she was never really left alone for long periods with the children.

 

Sometimes, things turn out for the best - even if it is difficult now. Yes, somebody lost their job, and it is a difficult task to do. But those rules are in place for a reason. <3 I hope you are feeling better soon.

 

 

Shellybing, thanks for sharing this story – it sounds like you had a gut feeling that something wasn’t right and potentially protected a lot of people in your care along the way. You acted quickly and decisively which although stressful, also meant that the situation wouldn’t continue to drag on indefinitely. There are elements of everyone’s job that they don’t want to do but I’m beginning to see that it says a lot about a person’s attitude and priorities when they “cherry pick” elements of the role.

 

It’s clear from reading all of these responses, that making the “right” decision vs the easy one is not always a clear-cut path but at the end of the day, if you take on the responsibilities (and paycheck) that comes with a role, you have a duty not only to yourself but your colleagues, employees, and anyone in your care to protect the stability of the org.

[Veryconfused12345]

You didnt hurt anyone. This person hurt themself by being a bad worker so dont feel bad. A busines dont need an unproductive worker. Adios.

 

I have fired a few people in my day and I never gave it any thought afterwards. Being a bit hard on yourself maybe.

 

Thanks Stixx - I'm anxious to learn from this and grow a thicker skin in the meantime. It sounds like you own your decisions a lot more than me and have confidence in your judgement - something I always second guess. Could you talk me through how you rationalise these hard employment decisions? Do you tell yourself that the person chose to put themselves in that position from the outset and isn't contributing? I think that's exactly what happened with this employee in my situation, but I genuinely keep on asking aside from following standard HR protocol, making sure the employee had access to all of the support he needed, etc is there something lacking in me (confidence, decisiveness, clarity, etc) that could have not set this guy up to succeed from the outset?

[whichwayisup]

Thanks JuneL - you're right, being tough and drawing boundaries is something I'll continue to work on. I noticed that this guy would get a request from me and than almost "check it" against my supervisor for confirmation. Maybe he just felt more comfortable with my supervisor but it would really make me sad to think it's because as a younger woman he didn't trust my authority.

 

Let me guess, the supervisor is a man?

 

You have others who have your back plus all the paperwork and warnings he was given. Try not to stress out too much.

[georgia girl]

Very confused,

 

I just wanted to pop by and share again that I think everything you are feeling is normal. Also, it's not unheard of for people to try and argue the dismissal once the shock wears off. You are still doing well and have confidence in yourself.

 

Some good advice I got about being a manager one time was this: "By the time the decision gets to you, all of the easy answers have already been asked and answered. You only get the problems people can't solve for themselves." The reality of that statement hit me at the time and still does today. You get the tough questions as a manager, but you are tough enough and insightful enough to come up with the right answers.

 

Good luck, GG

[shellybing]

Very confused,

 

I just wanted to pop by and share again that I think everything you are feeling is normal. Also, it's not unheard of for people to try and argue the dismissal once the shock wears off. You are still doing well and have confidence in yourself.

 

Some good advice I got about being a manager one time was this: "By the time the decision gets to you, all of the easy answers have already been asked and answered. You only get the problems people can't solve for themselves." The reality of that statement hit me at the time and still does today. You get the tough questions as a manager, but you are tough enough and insightful enough to come up with the right answers.

 

Good luck, GG

 

I would agree with this, and I think you are doing a wonderful job.

 

You have a great heart, and good head on your shoulders. It sounds like you are an excellent person to have a leadership role, and you have that role for a reason. That reason is to make sure that the right person is in that job.

[CptInsano]

Hi everyone,

 

I was wondering if I could get an outside opinion from the lovely people on this community?

 

I'm fairly new to management and hired three employees on behalf of my company about 3 months ago. Unfortunately one of our hires just wasn't working out - he fought with several other long-time employees, blamed others when projects went badly, went missing from work a few times, etc. We did give him warnings and offer support but it just wasn't working.[...]

 

Think about it from your team's perspective. He probably hurt team performance and negatively impacted the work environment. Chances are that he wasn't fired soon enough. I know that it is upsetting, even though lay-offs of good employees are more upsetting to me, but please try to view this from the viewpoint of your responsibility to the team.

[Veryconfused12345]

Let me guess, the supervisor is a man?

 

You have others who have your back plus all the paperwork and warnings he was given. Try not to stress out too much.

 

 

Thanks whichwayisup, the supervisor is indeed a man, I might be being paranoid but I got a sense the ex-employee deferred to him. Thanks so much for your advice/thoughts, it's really helped me process all of this.

[Veryconfused12345]

Very confused,

 

I just wanted to pop by and share again that I think everything you are feeling is normal. Also, it's not unheard of for people to try and argue the dismissal once the shock wears off. You are still doing well and have confidence in yourself.

 

Some good advice I got about being a manager one time was this: "By the time the decision gets to you, all of the easy answers have already been asked and answered. You only get the problems people can't solve for themselves." The reality of that statement hit me at the time and still does today. You get the tough questions as a manager, but you are tough enough and insightful enough to come up with the right answers.

 

Good luck, GG

 

Hi Georgia Girl, thanks so much for your thoughts on all of this and for the reassurance. Being able to get everyone's support here on this forum has made an enormous difference in my ability to process the last two weeks and come out the other side hopefully more confident and having learned from this whole experience. I can't thank you enough for listening to me throughout all of this, it really had helped so much

[Veryconfused12345]

I would agree with this, and I think you are doing a wonderful job.

 

You have a great heart, and good head on your shoulders. It sounds like you are an excellent person to have a leadership role, and you have that role for a reason. That reason is to make sure that the right person is in that job.

 

Thanks so much Shellybing, it's such a kind thing for you to say and the support of you and other people on this forum has helped me so much, it's really been a lifeline through the last two weeks of feeling so down and questioning my decision. It's nice to know there are people like you and the other members of the forum who have taken time out of their busy schedules to give a boost to someone they've never met. I'm really grateful for your kindness

[Veryconfused12345]

Think about it from your team's perspective. He probably hurt team performance and negatively impacted the work environment. Chances are that he wasn't fired soon enough. I know that it is upsetting, even though lay-offs of good employees are more upsetting to me, but please try to view this from the viewpoint of your responsibility to the team.

 

Thanks CptInsano, actually my colleague was just commenting to me that she felt like the entire mood of the office had changed and everyone seemed a lot "lighter." What's more, I feel a lot calmer and able to focus on my own projects which I suppose is telling in itself. It might be a good "immersion therapy" of sorts where I can embrace the fact that being a responsible manager and being liked are two separate things.

[CptInsano]

... that being a responsible manager and being liked are two separate things.

 

Yes, one of the things that are hard to adjust to. You will not be universally liked if you are taking your job seriously, which can be very awkward if you were friends with the same group of employees before.

[Veryconfused12345]

Yes, one of the things that are hard to adjust to. You will not be universally liked if you are taking your job seriously, which can be very awkward if you were friends with the same group of employees before.

 

Definitely, it's really thrown me for a loop. I've seen it completely implode in other departments when someone gets moved up to a manager position and suddenly goes from being "one of the guys" to the authoritarian. It's amazing how complex human interactions in the workplace are and I think I'm probably just seeing the tip of the iceberg. Thanks for your message

[Steve51]

I befriended someone who worked in a competitor of ours when he was temporarily assigned to their Texas office. He was a NYC boy like me and I had just moved to Texas and he became my first friend. We bonded and I talked him into relocating permanently and coming to work for me. He had to convince his wife. He flew here down for a few weeks and my wife and I showed them around and made them feel comfortable. Before they left my job offer was accepted and they up and moved at their own expense to a house near ours.

 

The first disaster was having their brand new car totaled after being stolen without any insurance on it. His fault really but 20K down the drain. Then after two months with me I got word that due to the recession I had to let go of one person and the company has a last in, first to go policy that they would not back down from. I was only 21 and a branch manager with no experience, just knowledge. I actually was crying on the phone talking to the President of the company. They told me that they would send down a VP to do the firing and it would not affect my career with them (they were good about that).

 

I felt terrible. The poor guy was in debt, had a new mortgage and a wife who only agreed to relocate away from her family because we were ready made friends and it was substantially more money for her husband. Welcome to the business world where people are commodities like copier toner. He was my best worker too. So my first firing was traumatic for me and obviously I still think about it. I did get used to it during my 46 year career.

 

The last firing I had to do was 178 people all at once when we shut down a distribution center. I felt bad about it but also realized that it was necessary to avoid bankruptcy and put the other 800 people out of work. Not too long ago I gave up a 25% share of one million dollars just so we did not have to lay off some people during the last recession. Actually I was not that for it but felt it was the right thing to do. Problem was that instead of using the extra time we bought them, none of the ones marked to leave spent a minute looking for a new job. A year later we had to let them go anyway and I was out of $250,000.

 

You do get used to it but still have feelings for the people you fire. I have even found new jobs for some good people we had to lay off due to a branch office closing. With bad workers, it did not bother me at all. People spending two hours a day on social media or shopping. Putting out half of the work of their fellow employees who were paid less, etc.. Just hang in there. It goes with the job so get used to it.

[Veryconfused12345]

I befriended someone who worked in a competitor of ours when he was temporarily assigned to their Texas office. He was a NYC boy like me and I had just moved to Texas and he became my first friend. We bonded and I talked him into relocating permanently and coming to work for me. He had to convince his wife. He flew here down for a few weeks and my wife and I showed them around and made them feel comfortable. Before they left my job offer was accepted and they up and moved at their own expense to a house near ours.

 

The first disaster was having their brand new car totaled after being stolen without any insurance on it. His fault really but 20K down the drain. Then after two months with me I got word that due to the recession I had to let go of one person and the company has a last in, first to go policy that they would not back down from. I was only 21 and a branch manager with no experience, just knowledge. I actually was crying on the phone talking to the President of the company. They told me that they would send down a VP to do the firing and it would not affect my career with them (they were good about that).

 

I felt terrible. The poor guy was in debt, had a new mortgage and a wife who only agreed to relocate away from her family because we were ready made friends and it was substantially more money for her husband. Welcome to the business world where people are commodities like copier toner. He was my best worker too. So my first firing was traumatic for me and obviously I still think about it. I did get used to it during my 46 year career.

 

The last firing I had to do was 178 people all at once when we shut down a distribution center. I felt bad about it but also realized that it was necessary to avoid bankruptcy and put the other 800 people out of work. Not too long ago I gave up a 25% share of one million dollars just so we did not have to lay off some people during the last recession. Actually I was not that for it but felt it was the right thing to do. Problem was that instead of using the extra time we bought them, none of the ones marked to leave spent a minute looking for a new job. A year later we had to let them go anyway and I was out of $250,000.

 

You do get used to it but still have feelings for the people you fire. I have even found new jobs for some good people we had to lay off due to a branch office closing. With bad workers, it did not bother me at all. People spending two hours a day on social media or shopping. Putting out half of the work of their fellow employees who were paid less, etc.. Just hang in there. It goes with the job so get used to it.

 

Thanks so much for weighing in here and talking about your own experiences. It sounds like you're a very strong and fair manager and I'd like to have your confidence at some point. Your first experience of letting someone go sounds really stressful and I can see that you were in an incredibly difficult situation despite doing everything with the very best of intentions.

 

I think I'm starting to realise the distinction between letting people go because of funding issues vs because someone not making an effort or being difficult and confrontational. Sometimes good competent workers are made redundant and it's unfortunate and something no one wants. But I've spent a month now beating myself up about someone who wasn't doing their job and upsetting others. I've learned through this whole experience that acknowledging intent and circumstance plays a big part of good management.

 

Thank you again