PLEASE HELP..Friend/Lover giving ex another try

[Dale]

Hello all. Alright this is fairly complicated, but I will try to provide an outline without skipping over the key details. I am a 21 year old college student returning to a small school in about a month. About a year and a half ago, I met a girl who was already happily going out and living with another guy, and we became friends, didn't do anything just bumped into eachother a few times and I definitely felt some attraction, but I didn't really know her.

 

The fall semester of that year, I have two classes with her and we develop a strange relationship where we are instantly very friendly to eachother but coy in wierd way. We talk about the classes, art, relationships, etc., and both find an unspoken realization that we think almost identically. I begin to frequent their apartment for homework, parties, etc., and practically everynight we end up staying up until 3-5 AM drinking and talking, usually about emotions or my ex-relationship, and I either pass out or stumble to my school housing at the time.

 

The whole time I can sense that she is attracted to our conversations and later that she was also always physically attracted to me, but nothing happens. I was never really good friends with her boyfriend, but I liked him and I didn't really want to damage their relationship, which was obviously very healthy but had strange underlying tensions because they never really had conversations like us and there was a slight boredom. I feel like he hates me and/or just feels threatened (I later found out that he asked her the previous summer if she found anyone at school attractive and I was the only name). While I seem sleazy at this point, I assure you I had no ill will, but couldn't help but feel like I was somehow ahead on her list and more in touch emotionally than they were.

 

The next semester, we are on a school trip to NY, me and her gravitate as always and he kind of wanders, I get us both drunk and tell her I like her alot, that I always have. We get home and watch a movie while he's out, and I apologize, but tell her how and why I ment it. She says she feels the same, but doesn't know what to do. The next day she breaks up with him, although he hasn't accepted it, we end up walking somewhere, feeling guilty and confused, finally kiss, bump into him on the way back and he saw everything.

 

Alright, so here's the point. The next months were her usually staying with me, but usually going home to him because she still lived there (does now) and him miserable and going after her because he still loved her, but they weren't sleeping together and she wasn't (other than still living there for financial reasons, leading him on). Needless to say a chaotic and miserable semester for everyone. I had a roomate, so we would drink frequently, end up fooling around (no intercourse) it was great sometimes, others just wierd and dissatisfying because there was an understanding but circumstances were always up in the air.

 

The summer came, we were still in love but starting to realize we might be too similair together, that converstaions were hard without talcohol because we both thought so abstractly and reactively, and now we were miles away (she stayed in her apartment the summer, went on a month long school trip out of the country, and is now in her hometown for the next few days). I had a deal with another semi friend to find an apartment for our senior year, it fell through, and now I'm basically stuck with school housing once again, possibly in a worse location than last year and definitely with a roomate I don't know (worst possible outcome kinda thing).

 

Talking to her alot, and she is still living with him for the year, and told me what I had bitterly expected, she wants to give them another chance bcause all in all they do work better and could almost definitely build a more probable future, (my words mostly) however she still loves me and doesn't want to be just friends, and basically doesn't know what to do. I know this sounds like typical I love him and you, don't leave me cause I need your conversation, transition back to friend story, but I promise you, this girl is not caniving, nor is she even that selfish, but it doesn't change how I'm feeling right now.

 

I know I get out of here in a year, but the problem is I cant let go, she is (and seriously for lack of a better term) my soulmate, I want her to be happy, and I know shes not ****ing around with me, but the next year of school is basically looking its worst, I fear the abysmal lonliness I have felt bfore (very small, independent school), and basically we met at the worst possible time, we both always knew that.

 

Thank you so much for reading this, I know its kind of an enigma but I would be utmostly greatful for any advice or just response to this situation. Im really desperate right now.

[morrigan]

This girl has given you the answer; she may have an attraction towards you, but she will keep going back to her boyfriend. It doesn't sound like their relationship is healthy, but it's best for you right now to accept that you'll only ever be the guy she turns to when she's mad at her bf. She can't and shouldn't expect you to not date other people and be there for her when she needs you.

 

Stop spending time with her, say hi on occasion, but it's going to be tough for you to let go if you continue to have a regular friendship with her.

Focus on your life, trying to find potentially better housing, deciding what your plans are after this year is over. Get out and meet other girls, instead of focusing on someone who only wants you to be the "backup guy".

[Dale]

Thank you morrigan for your suggestions and insight into this. Its true, its so hard not to want to just scream out "but you don't know her!" when someone suggests your a victim of the one u love, but thats as good as a message board can get right? The biggest problem is that she, like me, is exrtemely passive agressive and generally a brash descision maker, while also brilliantly intelligent, has a heart of gold and doesn't enjoy playing games with boys. I feel like seeing them together walking down the street and saying hi wouldn't be as hurtful as it would just be ****ed up, seeing as how we basically are the most honest and understanding people to eachother we've ever met. Its just all so confusing, and the hardest part is the distancing. I've done the NC with an x-girlfriend, simply because I didn't want to friends after she left, but this girl would honestly be more worried that she was hurting me or stringing me along by calling, so if I stopped she would too. This guy is also only her second boyfriend, and the truth is she left him because she fell in love with me, but was happy with him, and I can't say I blame her for not wanting to jump into an apartment with me. Its a terrible idea.

 

Sometimes I think about just taking this symbol of my underlying possesiveness and overbearing sexual frustrations from between my legs and just cutting it off. Right the **** off. I could almost garuntee that friendship would easier. Just kidding, really. Thanks again morrigan.

[amerikajin]

I know this falls into the 'no s***' category, but it was just bad timing between you two. I'm not necessarily talking about them living together, because all she has to do is to move out - and yes, it really is that simple. I think the underlying problem is that you came along at a time when she wasn't sure about her feelings with the guy she was with at the time. I think truly she's got the hots for you and she probably feels a greater degree of sexual compulsion toward you, which means that this guy could treat her like a queen and she will still have a part of her that wants to be with you - nature's cruel like that.

 

However, compulsion or not, she is at least somewhat attracted to this guy and for the time being sees fit to stay put. She probably thinks that you just came along and affected her judgment about her bf. I think that she might feel more comfortable with him in some ways; she knows that he accepts her for what she is, so there's the element of familiarity and comfort there.

 

I think you need to stay on the sidelines for a while and let her make her peace one way or another. I agree with morrigan in saying that their relationship looks pretty weak right now, but you need to let that fail on its own; otherwise, she might end up thinking it would have succeeded had you not been around. If you two end up getting back together, it'll be peace of mind for everyone - she'll know that she's with you because there was no future with him, that her future is with you.

[Dale]

Wow. So, since my last post, I had been doing better with this girl on the phone, telling her honestly that I was in love with her but would be her friend because she was so important to me. Then, glory be, my living situation improved and I got another apartment deal with two of my best friends for the whole year, with my own room, a studio, and living two houses away from her.

 

Two nights ago, I gat a little to tipsy at a friends house, had a run in with another guy (Inever get into fights), got my face completely scraped up, my cell phone lost, and my father (who was paying for the apartment in place of school housing) tells me thats finished, I'm back in school housing (wherever they place me with underclassmen) and she is with him, probably on the other side of town. She was incredibly concerned about me and this, dissapointed because it was so close the being perfect next year, and I think Im just going to have to settle for friends, if that even lasts.

On a side note, and I know this is so ridiculous, but I am and have always been plauged with insecurity about the way I look and my personality. I'll just say that this girl was one of very few who could see something beautiful to her in my face and something she could identify with in my personality. I will not pretend that I don't sound like a worried middle schooler right now, but I had it all and it all fell through in a day.

 

I feel like sitting on the sidelines in pain is possible, but in terms of my insecurities, I don't get many girls if any feeling this way about me at all, I feel like I lost my chance at someone who saw through it because of f*cking circumstances, and (the gentleman I am) never forced the issue of sex, even though it certainly could have happened many times, and I feel like a normal sexlife is gone as well (unless my to be announced freshman roomate likes to party and stay out all night).

 

I blew it, and I fear for this year like a child. I apologize for whatever the hell you just read, but I'm just losing my focus on everything, I feel like hope is dismal, and I see no way out. I DONT KNOW WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH US AND I FEEL A SENSE OF URGENCY THAT I HAVE NO SENSE TO BACK UP. I need to get my Bfa, but this year is going to depress the hell out of me.

 

Somebody please respond with anything and everything. I dont know what to do anymore.

[Dale]

And everytime we talk or she leaves a message there is an i love you, I MISS YOU (more frequent), and occasionally an I'm sorry. Sometimes I think that she is once again trying their relationship again, that seeing them walking together could be a possibilty now, others I wonder if Im just trying to bring it to that to make sense of it all.

 

I'd be fine talking with her every once in a while on the phone while this happened, but I don't want to be around it. The only thing that made it okay for me before was the fact that I really did feel like he was out of the picture even if they DID walk together, and the fact that her attraction to him could be once again rejuvinated brings out old insecurities and lonliness that I don't need. I'm just so exhausted from all of this.

 

Part of me wants to peacefully keep my distance, let her call me most of the time, and part of me wants to take the initiative, which I kind of already had. Sorry, I'm not making much sense.

[amerikajin]

I can relate.

 

When I was in my college years I felt the same way. Whenever a girl showed me any kind of interest, I used to cling on for dear life. The problem is, girls can sense that even if you don't, and it's just a law of nature you'd better learn now: girls do not like a 'sense of urgency' in a man. It's the one thing that destroys a guy's chances more than anything else.

 

And everytime we talk or she leaves a message there is an i love you, I MISS YOU (more frequent), and occasionally an I'm sorry. Sometimes I think that she is once again trying their relationship again, that seeing them walking together could be a possibilty now, others I wonder if Im just trying to bring it to that to make sense of it all.

 

She's trying to keep you as a viable option, but don't forget the bottom line: at the end of the day, she's with him, not you. I remember having a relationship like that with a girl I dated in college - sat around getting played like a yo-you, being her 'friend'. She would confide in me, and I was 'there for her whenever she needed me' and all that cr@p (yes, Alpha, there was once a time when I was this weak). And dude ended up cheating on her...and yet she still took him back, even though she coulda been with me if she had wanted to.

 

That was the beginning of an awakening for me, although it took a little longer to really understand it fully. At the time, I got so fed up that I just said 'F_ck dating' for a while. But after that I finally realized that nice doesn't always cut it; in fact, being nice is never enough, being a friend as never enough. You've got to be attractive, and the way you're attractive is if she sees you as someone who's able to stand on your own two feet.

 

I'll put it to you this way: I've never won a girl over by showing her how much I cared for her or how much of a friend I was to her. But I have won girls over when it became obvious that although I liked her, I sure as hell didn't need her. The way I have figured it over the years, letting a girl know that you like her once is enough; after that, the ball's in her court, and I figure she knows how to get in touch with me if she changes her mind. And if she's changed her mind but too proud to pick up the phone and call me? Well screw her - don't need her around anyway. Trust me - it's all in how you see yourself. And when you see yourself as someone strong, others will too.

[Rocko]

Originally posted by amerikajin

I can relate.

 

When I was in my college years I felt the same way. Whenever a girl showed me any kind of interest, I used to cling on for dear life. The problem is, girls can sense that even if you don't, and it's just a law of nature you'd better learn now: girls do not like a 'sense of urgency' in a man. It's the one thing that destroys a guy's chances more than anything else.

 

And everytime we talk or she leaves a message there is an i love you, I MISS YOU (more frequent), and occasionally an I'm sorry. Sometimes I think that she is once again trying their relationship again, that seeing them walking together could be a possibilty now, others I wonder if Im just trying to bring it to that to make sense of it all.

 

She's trying to keep you as a viable option, but don't forget the bottom line: at the end of the day, she's with him, not you. I remember having a relationship like that with a girl I dated in college - sat around getting played like a yo-you, being her 'friend'. She would confide in me, and I was 'there for her whenever she needed me' and all that cr@p (yes, Alpha, there was once a time when I was this weak). And dude ended up cheating on her...and yet she still took him back, even though she coulda been with me if she had wanted to.

 

That was the beginning of an awakening for me, although it took a little longer to really understand it fully. At the time, I got so fed up that I just said 'F_ck dating' for a while. But after that I finally realized that nice doesn't always cut it; in fact, being nice is never enough, being a friend as never enough. You've got to be attractive, and the way you're attractive is if she sees you as someone who's able to stand on your own two feet.

 

I'll put it to you this way: I've never won a girl over by showing her how much I cared for her or how much of a friend I was to her. But I have won girls over when it became obvious that although I liked her, I sure as hell didn't need her. The way I have figured it over the years, letting a girl know that you like her once is enough; after that, the ball's in her court, and I figure she knows how to get in touch with me if she changes her mind. And if she's changed her mind but too proud to pick up the phone and call me? Well screw her - don't need her around anyway. Trust me - it's all in how you see yourself. And when you see yourself as someone strong, others will too.

 

This is fantastic advice.

[Dale]

Christ amerikajin, that really was some of the most well written and acutely useful advice I have heard about this situation, let alone others on this site from the past. I think the bottom line is the more the person in need can relate to the advisors situation, obviously the closer he gets to applying their other thoughts to his situation, and there are so many "I bet she's playing with you, tell her to f*** off" kinds of advice to something like this, its helpful to hear something else.

 

I think one of my biggest problems right now (and very possibly in my last chaotic relationship) are my insecurities about actually being able to "stand on my own two feet" and be nice but not stand there waiting at her doorstep trying to convince her of something she already knows. Girls, just like guys, will always enjoy hearing about someone's immutable affection for them and will use it as a crutch in other avenues of their lives to get what they really want if your not it. And I'm not going to lie, I can get just as jealous, insecure, and in need of support as any girl can, as you can clearly see. I think I've just learned to hide it better for a greater good, be it my own individuality if the relationship burns out or for the winning of someone's affections and trust that I deem worthy of them.

 

I need to take a breath. Thanks again for taking the time and reaffirming what I, deep down inside, already know but don't want to face.

[amerikajin]

I think the hard part - at least for me anyway - is getting to the point where I genuinely don't need to be needed by women. There's a difference between walking around and telling yourself that you're your own person and that you don't need a girlfriend and actually feeling that way. I think that for the past few years, this has been my problem. I've been walking around, like a scared soul whistling in the dark, telling myself that everything's okay, but deep down inside, something's telling me otherwise, and it bears itself out in my behavior.

 

I remember commenting about two weeks ago in one of my threads that it's time for me to put other priorities at the top of my list in life. The only time I've ever had a really successful relationship in my life was when I was pursuing my own ambitions and making that 'my baby' so to speak. I can't explain it, and I'm not sure women can do it so easily either, but the time it was the easiest for me to pick up a girl and actually have it follow through to something meaningful was when I was in one of my ambitious states, when dating wasn't really all that important to me. Sure, I wanted a girlfriend just like I do now, but I stopped planning my life around it. We really do end up being more attractive when we're kinda doing our own thing, enjoying our lives. I don't mean become a slave to work, I mean pursuing enjoying your life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Somehow, everything else just falls into place after that.

[Outcast]

I think the hard part - at least for me anyway - is getting to the point where I genuinely don't need to be needed by women. There's a difference between walking around and telling yourself that you're your own person and that you don't need a girlfriend and actually feeling that way. I think that for the past few years, this has been my problem. I've been walking around, like a scared soul whistling in the dark, telling myself that everything's okay, but deep down inside, something's telling me otherwise, and it bears itself out in my behavior.

 

Wow! Impressive insights, there, Amerikajin! Also impressive that you expressed it here. I doubt there's any person who doesn't spend at least some time 'whistling in the dark' but few will be gutsy enough to admit it.