Poor boundaries and conflict avoidance

[Hbroken]

My Ex-AP is now 34. She has recently broken up with her long term BF (7 years) and me (5 year long EA and PA) because she realised that she needed to get on with her life and have children and start a family. All her friends and siblings have kids and partners and this had caused her a lot of sadness because somewhere deep down she understandably wanted the same things.I initially refused to end my M for her and this is why she finished our A too.

 

She has always had poor boundaries and is definitely a conflict avoider. She comes from a family where both her mum and her brother have broken marriages.

 

She has previously had a one night stand (which she subsequently confessed to her BF and temporarily broke up with me as a consequence of) and obviously a 5y long affair with me (whilst she was with the same bf)...

 

At present i am in a dilemma as to whether to exit my own M (largely because i am jealous that she will be dating other guys) but my question is how likely is it that she would so the same to me (i.e cheat on me given her background/history)...i'd hate to end/not work on my M, to be with someone who could do the same to me? Obviously i really really care for her and it felt to me that she really cared for me too

 

Whilst the answer is obviously highly likely... i wanted to ask any OW who may have been in a similar position to see whether they reoffended after establishing a new relationship with an ex AP or even a new partner?

[purplesorrow]

My Ex-AP is now 34. She has recently broken up with her long term BF (7 years) and me (5 year long EA and PA) because she realised that she needed to get on with her life and have children and start a family. All her friends and siblings have kids and partners and this had caused her a lot of sadness because somewhere deep down she understandably wanted the same things.I initially refused to end my M for her and this is why she finished our A too.

 

She has always had poor boundaries and is definitely a conflict avoider. She comes from a family where both her mum and her brother have broken marriages.

 

She has previously had a one night stand (which she subsequently confessed to her BF and temporarily broke up with me as a consequence of) and obviously a 5y long affair with me (whilst she was with the same bf)...

 

At present i am in a dilemma as to whether to exit my own M (largely because i am jealous that she will be dating other guys) but my question is how likely is it that she would so the same to me (i.e cheat on me given her background/history)...i'd hate to end/not work on my M, to be with someone who could do the same to me? Obviously i really really care for her and it felt to me that she really cared for me too

 

Whilst the answer is obviously highly likely... i wanted to ask any OW who may have been in a similar position to see whether they reoffended after establishing a new relationship with an ex AP or even a new partner?

Can't you answer that being an offender yourself?

[deadsoul]

My Ex-AP is now 34. She has recently broken up with her long term BF (7 years) and me (5 year long EA and PA) because she realised that she needed to get on with her life and have children and start a family. All her friends and siblings have kids and partners and this had caused her a lot of sadness because somewhere deep down she understandably wanted the same things.I initially refused to end my M for her and this is why she finished our A too.

 

She has always had poor boundaries and is definitely a conflict avoider. She comes from a family where both her mum and her brother have broken marriages.

 

She has previously had a one night stand (which she subsequently confessed to her BF and temporarily broke up with me as a consequence of) and obviously a 5y long affair with me (whilst she was with the same bf)...

 

At present i am in a dilemma as to whether to exit my own M (largely because i am jealous that she will be dating other guys) but my question is how likely is it that she would so the same to me (i.e cheat on me given her background/history)...i'd hate to end/not work on my M, to be with someone who could do the same to me? Obviously i really really care for her and it felt to me that she really cared for me too

 

Whilst the answer is obviously highly likely... i wanted to ask any OW who may have been in a similar position to see whether they reoffended after establishing a new relationship with an ex AP or even a new partner?

 

I'm not an OW, I'm a cheater, so here's my advice (take or leave):

 

I think you need to exit your marriage. If your concern is that your OW will be dating other guys, your focus is not on your marriage at all. By the way, read your words over and over until you see you've stated the REAL reason you are thinking about why to leave your marriage.

 

I also think you don't stand a chance of a good future with your OW unless you: 1) get counseling and find out why you can't be on your own 2) Go completely NC with OW until you sort your own stuff out. Don't tell her your plans or anything 3) IF and only IF you sort your marriage by divorcing or whatever and you contact OW and she's still single and wanting a relationship with you, then you give it a shot.

 

No one said doing the right thing was easy, but as of now, you are not ALL in for R (does your wife know?) so do her a favor and free HER to be with someone who can be all in with her.

 

Good luck OP. Also, I STRONGLY recommend you read Jenkins' story if you haven't already. You are exactly where he was before he truly realized he needed to get his head out of his butt and do the right thing.

 

Trust me, my head was in my butt (and might still be a bit) so I'm coming from a place of knowing these things too...

 

PS: trust me, I get the whole "pining" over the other person thing, but we owe it to our spouses to realize it's limerence and an addiction and refocus on the ones who truly love us. See that other relationship truly for what it was and have the strength to leave it.

[healing light]

Alright, I'm probably not going to be much help, but why are you with your wife in the first place? I am in my early thirties, have more than a handful of guy friends (truly platonic) who are in long-term/serious relationships (7+ years) who have admitted to me that they are not in love with their women and never were. So if you're one of these guys who settled/was never in love with your wife, then I wouldn't glorify your marriage just because you're married. I think the quality of the relationship is much more important to its long-term success than its legal standing.

 

If that's the case, do yourself and your wife a favor and properly end the marriage before stepping out on it again. It's inevitable you will meet someone else that ticks your boxes and be back at square one if you never had love for your wife or are no longer in love with your wife and don't feel it can be rekindled.

 

If your affair partner was someone who was conflict avoidant, it makes sense to me that she would prevent herself from doing the hard stuff, like establishing a clean boundary by breaking up as opposed to cheating. So it's good that she's finally put her foot down. No one can predict what she will do in the future if you were to pursue her. It's possible you were the person she made an exception for, and it's also possible that she'll be a repeat offender. What was her relationship like with the 7 year bf? What drove her to cheat, did you ever find out?

[elaine567]

My Ex-AP is now 34. She has recently broken up with her long term BF (7 years) and me (5 year long EA and PA) because she realised that she needed to get on with her life and have children and start a family.

 

At 34 she will want to start a family ASAP, time is running out for her, so are you prepared to marry her and have kids in the next few years?

How old are you? Do you already have kids?

 

In my experience people who end up with two partners or with two choices, do so as neither of the choices really fulfil the criteria for a good relationship. The flaws of one are made up for by the good bits of the other and vice versa. By keeping two on the go; together they make a whole, separately they would not cut it.

She may not therefore see you as being "enough".

She dumped you, dumpees rarely hold any sway in reality...

Be careful here.

[Rea]

My Ex-AP is now 34. She has recently broken up with her long term BF (7 years) and me (5 year long EA and PA) because she realised that she needed to get on with her life and have children and start a family. All her friends and siblings have kids and partners and this had caused her a lot of sadness because somewhere deep down she understandably wanted the same things.I initially refused to end my M for her and this is why she finished our A too.

 

She has always had poor boundaries and is definitely a conflict avoider. She comes from a family where both her mum and her brother have broken marriages.

 

She has previously had a one night stand (which she subsequently confessed to her BF and temporarily broke up with me as a consequence of) and obviously a 5y long affair with me (whilst she was with the same bf)...

 

At present i am in a dilemma as to whether to exit my own M (largely because i am jealous that she will be dating other guys) but my question is how likely is it that she would so the same to me (i.e cheat on me given her background/history)...i'd hate to end/not work on my M, to be with someone who could do the same to me? Obviously i really really care for her and it felt to me that she really cared for me too

 

Whilst the answer is obviously highly likely... i wanted to ask any OW who may have been in a similar position to see whether they reoffended after establishing a new relationship with an ex AP or even a new partner?

 

Welcome HB,

 

It's impossible for anyone to answer truly what you should do, all the advice you receive will based on individual perspective/experience, it's very important here to remember that.

 

From your post it seems you really lack commitment to your wife. I expect your mind is consumed with thoughts of your OW. You have received very good advice to read Jenkins posts. He continuously gives brilliant perspective to A's and the dynamics between OW/MM/BW. He has brought me a lot of solace at times as an ex OW, even though I post infrequently, I do read the board occasionaly

 

As an xOW to 1 MM, I would suggest you proceed with great caution if you continue to pursue your OW. I was very much in love and committed to my MM and there is no way I could have gone and had a one night stand. That is a major red flag and you should proceed with caution. She was already cheating with you. I am not proud of my A, but I do honestly believe that there was deep love between us. I am still not ready to date a year on. I'm getting there, but I in no way want to load another with emotional baggage from my A.

 

Your OW could have chosen to be with you, instead she added a fourth person into the mix. Take care of yourself and take care of your wife, whether that means moving on from her to free her of this, or at least informing her so that she can make her own choices, or examine quick fast on whether you have it in you to recommit and focus reconciling with your W.

 

You need to decide on whether to continue with your marriage outside of the A. How do you feel about your wife, your marriage if you put the A aside? I would advise you to invest time in researching limerance before you make any decision.

 

I wish you the best outcome.

[FoundMyStrength]

I'm an xOW, and I think that there's no magic formula for which OW will "re-offend" so to speak. In my own case, I was the one who pulled out of the affair before too many months (and too much sexual contact) had gone by. I also was the one to establish no contact. I learn from my mistakes, as evidenced by the fact that I recently turned down another married man who showed interest in me.

 

As for your OW, there are several things working against you. First, this isn't her first time engaging/participating in cheating. She should have learned her lesson, but didn't. Second, she engaged in a *five-year* affair with you. This requires a certain level of deceit and rationalization that, to be honest, make BOTH of you poor choices to be anyone's partner. At least not before you get some therapy and figure out what was missing inside YOURSELVES (not your relationships) that led you to actively deceive the people who loved you for years and years.

 

What bothers me about your post, though, is that you're applying standards to the OW that you don't seem to be applying to yourself. I've seen this question many times before on LS, a MM asking if he can really, truly trust an OW who does this. Well, you're just as complicit as she is in having an affair (she with her boyfriend, you with your wife). What you should be doing is asking the same question of yourself. Why should *she*, the OW, ever trust you not to do the same thing to her as you did to your wife? Are your actions any less boundary-less and problematic?

[Chica80]

Second, she engaged in a *five-year* affair with you. This requires a certain level of deceit and rationalization that, to be honest, make BOTH of you poor choices to be anyone's partner. At least not before you get some therapy and figure out what was missing inside YOURSELVES (not your relationships) that led you to actively deceive the people who loved you for years and years.

 

What bothers me about your post, though, is that you're applying standards to the OW that you don't seem to be applying to yourself. I've seen this question many times before on LS, a MM asking if he can really, truly trust an OW who does this. Well, you're just as complicit as she is in having an affair (she with her boyfriend, you with your wife). What you should be doing is asking the same question of yourself. Why should *she*, the OW, ever trust you not to do the same thing to her as you did to your wife? Are your actions any less boundary-less and problematic?

 

The bolded.....ya I always find it interesting posters, usually MM, who talk about their AP, untrustworthy etc when they are doing the same.

 

OP it's easier to ask questions and try to "figure out" your OW, "understand" her try to guess what the future might be like. As long as you are focused on her you don't have to actually figure out what is going on with you.

This wasn't just any Affair, you led a whole double life for 5 years. 5 years that is a long time.

 

No judgements here as I am an OW.

 

The statistics for relationships that started as an A are very low. But that's because both people started a relationship running from themselves or something else. And until you actually face whatever that is, you will keep running to someone else to find what you are looking for.

[Hip Pocket]

My Ex-AP is now 34. She has recently broken up with her long term BF (7 years) and me (5 year long EA and PA) because she realised that she needed to get on with her life and have children and start a family. All her friends and siblings have kids and partners and this had caused her a lot of sadness because somewhere deep down she understandably wanted the same things.I initially refused to end my M for her and this is why she finished our A too.

 

She has always had poor boundaries and is definitely a conflict avoider. She comes from a family where both her mum and her brother have broken marriages.

 

She has previously had a one night stand (which she subsequently confessed to her BF and temporarily broke up with me as a consequence of) and obviously a 5y long affair with me (whilst she was with the same bf)...

 

At present i am in a dilemma as to whether to exit my own M (largely because i am jealous that she will be dating other guys) but my question is how likely is it that she would so the same to me (i.e cheat on me given her background/history)...i'd hate to end/not work on my M, to be with someone who could do the same to me? Obviously i really really care for her and it felt to me that she really cared for me too

 

Whilst the answer is obviously highly likely... i wanted to ask any OW who may have been in a similar position to see whether they reoffended after establishing a new relationship with an ex AP or even a new partner?

 

Hi Hbroken,

 

First off, I'm surprised that you're willing to leave a M for another person. You should be leaving a M because the M isn't working for you. If I were your OW that would be my first concern. It's not about choosing one woman over the other.

 

Secondly, I take offense to the term "reoffend". My MM is M and as long as he remains M I don't feel that I have to be loyal to him. I am for the most part but in principle why should I be when he's not committed to me? Your post rings double standard to me.

 

If you love her, talk to her. Ask her if she intends to remain true to you if you leave your M. If you can't trust her answer why would you have a R with her in the first place?

 

And you, you yourself have cheated. Who's to say you won't be the one cheating on her once you're together?

 

And the "background" thing? Stereotype much? I feel like I'm reading a 1950s novella.

 

Other than that you sound like a nice guy. Confused, but nice.

[S2B]

We could also conclude that you also have poor boundaries and avoid conflict (given that you didn't divorce after a 5 year affair).

 

Work on yourself. Be honest with your wife.

 

Allow this OW to be free to date. You two together would likely be toxic.

[Hbroken]

Welcome HB,

 

It's impossible for anyone to answer truly what you should do, all the advice you receive will based on individual perspective/experience, it's very important here to remember that.

 

From your post it seems you really lack commitment to your wife. I expect your mind is consumed with thoughts of your OW. You have received very good advice to read Jenkins posts. He continuously gives brilliant perspective to A's and the dynamics between OW/MM/BW. He has brought me a lot of solace at times as an ex OW, even though I post infrequently, I do read the board occasionaly

 

As an xOW to 1 MM, I would suggest you proceed with great caution if you continue to pursue your OW. I was very much in love and committed to my MM and there is no way I could have gone and had a one night stand. That is a major red flag and you should proceed with caution. She was already cheating with you. I am not proud of my A, but I do honestly believe that there was deep love between us. I am still not ready to date a year on. I'm getting there, but I in no way want to load another with emotional baggage from my A.

 

Your OW could have chosen to be with you, instead she added a fourth person into the mix. Take care of yourself and take care of your wife, whether that means moving on from her to free her of this, or at least informing her so that she can make her own choices, or examine quick fast on whether you have it in you to recommit and focus reconciling with your W.

 

You need to decide on whether to continue with your marriage outside of the A. How do you feel about your wife, your marriage if you put the A aside? I would advise you to invest time in researching limerance before you make any decision.

 

I wish you the best outcome.

 

 

thanks this helps. I may have misled you due to a typo. she had the one night stand whilst she was with her long term BF...i wasn't in the picture at that time and as far as i know she has never cheated on me.

[Origin]

They did research on couples who got together due to infidelity by one or both of them. The results came back that these couples tend to stray out of the relationship way more then couples who got together without infidelity being involved.

 

Google mate poaching, there are alot of articles about it. The odds are stacked against you.

[Darren Steez]

 

She has always had poor boundaries and is definitely a conflict avoider.

 

When you point one finger towards someone, three fingers are pointing back at you.

 

Also she got rid of both me in her life, I'd say that's conflict resolution not avoiding.

 

Why not let her get on with her life? You refused to leave the marriage for her, but when she decides to find her happiness purely out of spite you want her back.

 

You either fix yourself and your marriage or you leave the marriage and fix yourself. Either way you're not safe for both women.

[Southwardbound]

My Ex-AP is now 34. She has recently broken up with her long term BF (7 years) and me (5 year long EA and PA) because she realised that she needed to get on with her life and have children and start a family. All her friends and siblings have kids and partners and this had caused her a lot of sadness because somewhere deep down she understandably wanted the same things.I initially refused to end my M for her and this is why she finished our A too.

 

She has always had poor boundaries and is definitely a conflict avoider. She comes from a family where both her mum and her brother have broken marriages.

 

She has previously had a one night stand (which she subsequently confessed to her BF and temporarily broke up with me as a consequence of) and obviously a 5y long affair with me (whilst she was with the same bf)...

 

At present i am in a dilemma as to whether to exit my own M (largely because i am jealous that she will be dating other guys) but my question is how likely is it that she would so the same to me (i.e cheat on me given her background/history)...i'd hate to end/not work on my M, to be with someone who could do the same to me? Obviously i really really care for her and it felt to me that she really cared for me too

 

Whilst the answer is obviously highly likely... i wanted to ask any OW who may have been in a similar position to see whether they reoffended after establishing a new relationship with an ex AP or even a new partner?

 

This is probably a little harsh sounding but.... You both have poor boundaries that's why you're both having a LTA. If you're W doesn't do it for you (as indicated by your 5 year LTA that you have checked out of that relationship), man-up & finally give your Wife some respect -because YES you are disrespecting her by lying to her constantly to her even if she doesn't know about your LTA. So, stop gaslighting her, and give her the freedom to pursue another- by getting a DIVORCE.

 

You hate to divorce your W because what? Your afraid of big scary unknowns... the possibility that you might be alone, afraid what others might think, afraid for your pocketbook? - That list is endless. But you forget your an adult, so act like one.

 

Your OW has left her BF & you, because she's probably come to the realization your too chicken leave your W. OW's who love their MM will wait for a while, but eventually they will reach the end of their tether.

 

My MM & I have had these conversations. I'm in a LTA, although I'm currently single. I would not cheat on him now, nor would I if he decided to leave the W and be with me. But, eventually if he doesn't leave the W, I will do the same thing your OW has - leave him. Does that mean I don't love him, enough? No, it doesn't. But at some point, I need to think about what is best for me - long term. And that is probably what your OW is doing.

 

So, if you really want your OW back, then you're probably going to have to not only talk to her about this, and SHOW her some concrete actions that you want a long term relationship ONLY with her. I wouldn't wait long to do that if that is what you want.

[aileD]

Never leave your marriage "for" another person. Leave it for you. The fact that you aren't in that mindset means you shouldn't leave your marriage yet