Fiancé had a lap dance 3 weeks before our wedding

[Els]

 

I seriously doubt the other guys would have backed off.

 

Men have always had codes. Codes of honor. Codes of conduct. Rules to live by thar superseded marriage and weren't dictated by women. These new, emasculated boys might be different, but certain groups of men will always have a code.

 

Why would a woman even want to be with a man to whom friends or some "code" was more important than her, though? Honestly, that just sounds like college frat boy crap. My thought is: If "bro code" is more important to a man than his relationship with me, he can be free to spend his life with his "bros" instead. Far be it from me to come between him and his true love! I would prioritize a long term relationship over any sort of "girl code ", especially if the "code" was advocating dishonesty to my partner, and I expect the same.

 

(Not saying that the OP's guy prioritizes his friends over her, we can't make a reasonable assumption about that solely based on one incident. Nor do we know if he's being dishonest. Just saying that I disagree with this. )

[d0nnivain]

I seriously doubt the other guys would have backed off.

 

Men have always had codes. Codes of honor. Codes of conduct. Rules to live by thar superseded marriage and weren't dictated by women. These new, emasculated boys might be different, but certain groups of men will always have a code.

 

 

You are probably right. But that is also why it's important to have friends with good character. Years ago I "met" a guy in bar. I put met in quotes because it turns out we had mutual friends & he'd had his eye on me before the first time we talked. We hooked up & started "dating" sort of. It was all very casual which was fine with me. A few weeks into this I find out he had a GF & I dump him. I have zero interest in helping him cheat & I don't date guys I don't trust. About a week after that 2 of our mutual friends -- well his friends, my professional colleagues -- separately came to me & apologized for not telling me about the GF. Actually the one called to tell me about her; he didn't know that I already knew & had dumped the guy. One said it was an on-again/off-again dysfunctional mess but the last thing he'd heard early that week the guy & I met was that the GF was gone again. I have no use for the guy but developed a new respect for the buddies. The broke your so-called bro-code out of respect for me & I appreciated there integrity.

 

 

That said, in the OPs shoes:

 

 

1. I would not have been that upset; again it was one lap dance not a torrid on going affair;

 

 

2. Even if I was upset I could sort of forgive the FI. I'd have less respect for him because he couldn't hold his ground against his buddies & keep a promise to me. That loss of respect would undermine any marriage way faster then him looking at some naked stripper;

 

 

3. I'd still be more pissed at my brother for going along with some cockamamie plan to lie to me. I have real problems with some so called bro code being more important than family loyalty.

[elaine567]

He didn't have sex with her.

 

This is another example of you being overly dramatic.

 

I said "if", but nicely dodged...

[SammySammy]

Why would a woman even want to be with a man to whom friends or some "code" was more important than her, though? Honestly, that just sounds like college frat boy crap. My thought is: If "bro code" is more important to a man than his relationship with me, he can be free to spend his life with his "bros" instead. Far be it from me to come between him and his true love! I would prioritize a long term relationship over any sort of "girl code ", especially if the "code" was advocating dishonesty to my partner, and I expect the same.

 

(Not saying that the OP's guy prioritizes his friends over her, we can't make a reasonable assumption about that solely based on one incident. Nor do we know if he's being dishonest. Just saying that I disagree with this. )

 

I watched a documentary about the Mongols. An American biker gang that rivals the Hell's Angels and many other bikers.

 

Those guys live by a code. They don't tell their women everything and women still love them.

 

The United States Marine Corp. Navy Seals. I can go on and on. Yes, fraternities. Code. Even the men in some families have a code. A way they do things.

 

Y'all might not like it, but men have always had codes. If you understood manhood and how men work together, you'd understand why it's not only desirable but necessary.

Edited August 21, 2017 by MidKnightDreams

[RecentChange]

If the thought of a stripper bothers you so much that you now can't eat because you are so upset.....

 

I think you should have made that very very very very (did I say very?) clear to him at some point before the bachelor party.

 

Strippers during a stag party is par for the course.

 

Personally, I would have ZERO problem with this. I am chubby, I don't look like a stripper, and I know my husband well enough to not feel insecure about it. He loves me, not some random girl who takes her clothes off for money

[BettyDraper]

If the thought of a stripper bothers you so much that you now can't eat because you are so upset.....

 

I think you should have made that very very very very (did I say very?) clear to him at some point before the bachelor party.

 

Strippers during a stag party is par for the course.

 

Personally, I would have ZERO problem with this. I am chubby, I don't look like a stripper, and I know my husband well enough to not feel insecure about it. He loves me, not some random girl who takes her clothes off for money

 

This. The OP is partly at fault for not communicating her discomfort with strippers at bachelor parties.

[BettyDraper]

 

I seriously doubt the other guys would have backed off.

 

Men have always had codes. Codes of honor. Codes of conduct. Rules to live by thar superseded marriage and weren't dictated by women. These new, emasculated boys might be different, but certain groups of men will always have a code.

 

Do codes among men include deceiving their female partners?

 

I would think that a man who lives by a code of ethical behavior would behave in an honorable manner towards everyone in his life....especially his nearest and dearest. Lying and hiding things just to impress the "bros" is not honorable at all. It's also rather immature.

 

Why would being loyal to codes be more important than maintaining loyalty to a marriage? I put my husband first and I expect him to do the same.

[elaine567]

This. The OP is partly at fault for not communicating her discomfort with strippers at bachelor parties.

 

Maybe but she was blind-sided by the "guys" - she thought the axe throwing and brewery tour was what was planned and she was shocked when she found out when he got home that he had been in a strip joint and he had a lap dance... shocked because he had told her he didn't want to do that.

She was naive maybe, but she trusted in him and was let down.

[d0nnivain]

The United States Marine Corp. Navy Seals. I can go on and on. Yes, fraternities. Code. Even the men in some families have a code. A way they do things.

 

Y'all might not like it, but men have always had codes. If you understood manhood and how men work together, you'd understand why it's not only desirable but necessary.

 

 

My husband IS a United States Marine. I understand God, Country, Corps. But no where in there do they advocate lying. The groups you cited believe in fidelity & loyalty. Putting your "bros" before your soon to be wife and your sister dishonors that code.

 

 

"I can't talk about it; it's classified" is different from telling your beloved that you are "at the beach" which evokes a sense of calm & well being vs. you being in an amphibious tractor about to start a water landing under enemy fire. Part of that lie / obfuscation may be so your loved one at home doesn't worry. It's also vastly different from saying "I'm deployed & I love you" when the person is out carousing every night & getting with every cheap hooker in some war-torn hell-hole or having a side piece in the battalion (since women are in forward areas now).

 

 

Again it was one lap dance, not a reason to stop eating or blow up the impending wedding, but a real man can stand up to his buddies & also picks friends of good character who don't advocate lying to a spouse or affirmatively breaking her trust. On this single issue -- a stripper at a bachelor party -- I would forgive the guy for buckling under the pressure (in part because I'm not naïve enough to think there won't be strippers at a bachelor party no matter how many times the guy says otherwise). In any other situation, I'd need to see a lot more integrity & fortitude from my man to stick around.

[SammySammy]

Do codes among men include deceiving their female partners?

 

I would think that a man who lives by a code of ethical behavior would behave in an honorable manner towards everyone in his life....especially his nearest and dearest. Lying and hiding things just to impress the "bros" is not honorable at all. It's also rather immature.

 

Why would being loyal to codes be more important than maintaining loyalty to a marriage? I put my husband first and I expect him to do the same.

 

I've said what I have to say.

 

On a guys night out, the general rule is we don't snitch. What another man does is between him and his wife. That's on him. It has nothing to do with me and my integrity is intact.

 

No woman is going to browbeat me and make me tell anything. It's not going to happen. Any woman who knows me would know better than to even try.

 

Among the men that I associate with, that's understood. Discretion. I keep my circle small and wouldn't knowingly go out with any man who thinks being "honorable" and having "integrity" is snitching on others.

[d0nnivain]

MidKnightDreams

 

 

I'm not talking about the buddies snitching on the groom. We're talking about the bride's brother.

 

 

The groom fessed up. He gets points for that.

 

 

I'm way more annoyed at the bride's brother for advocating not telling her / "not snitching" to use your words.

 

 

My husband's friends owe their loyalty to him, as your buddies owe each other. My blood family owes it to me, gender not withstanding.

 

 

Are you really saying you would allow your sister or maybe your future daughter be so disrespected by her FI and not speak up? A single lap dance may not be all that terrible, but where is the line drawn -- a hand job, oral or even full on sex? As long as the little wifey doesn't know it's all good?

[BettyDraper]

I've said what I have to say.

 

On a guys night out, the general rule is we don't snitch. What another man does is between him and his wife. That's on him. It has nothing to do with me and my integrity is intact.

 

No woman is going to browbeat me and make me tell anything. It's not going to happen. Any woman who knows me would know better than to even try.

 

Among the men that I associate with, that's understood. Discretion. I keep my circle small and wouldn't knowingly go out with any man who thinks being "honorable" and having "integrity" is snitching on others.

 

An Alpha male who isn't ashamed of what he is doing doesn't need to hide it from anyone.

 

Lying in order to impress the boys shows weakness because such behavior requires bending to your peer group.

 

At some point, most men outgrow the "bros before h**" mentality and that usually happens after leaving college.

[SammySammy]

MidKnightDreams

 

 

I'm not talking about the buddies snitching on the groom. We're talking about the bride's brother.

 

 

The groom fessed up. He gets points for that.

 

 

I'm way more annoyed at the bride's brother for advocating not telling her / "not snitching" to use your words.

 

 

My husband's friends owe their loyalty to him, as your buddies owe each other. My blood family owes it to me, gender not withstanding.

 

 

Are you really saying you would allow your sister or maybe your future daughter be so disrespected by her FI and not speak up? A single lap dance may not be all that terrible, but where is the line drawn -- a hand job, oral or even full on sex? As long as the little wifey doesn't know it's all good?

 

Her brother was part of the crew that night. He better not snitch.

 

Which is why you don't want her family members in the bachelor party, but that's another story.

 

As far as my sisters go, no I wouldn't tell if he merely got a lap dance. If I'm present, a guy would know not to go too far. But, a lap dance? Are you serious? Even if he tried to take it farther at the party, he would have a problem with ME ... right then. My sister would never know. Unless somebody else told her.

 

But, the guys taking him out, getting him drunk, and buying him a lap dance? Harmless fun. No need for all of this drama and long discussion. All of these overly emotional what-if scenarios.

[d0nnivain]

Her brother was part of the crew that night. He better not snitch.

 

Which is why you don't want her family members in the bachelor party, but that's another story.

 

As far as my sisters go, no I wouldn't tell if he merely got a lap dance. If I'm present, a guy would know not to go too far. But, a lap dance? Are you serious? Even if he tried to take it farther at the party, he would have a problem with ME ... right then. My sister would never know. Unless somebody else told her.

 

But, the guys taking him out, getting him drunk, and buying him a lap dance? Harmless fun. No need for all of this drama and long discussion. All of these overly emotional what-if scenarios.

 

 

I said the lap dance was fine (even though I wasn't thrilled with the hands on the hips)

 

 

You answered my Qs -- there are some lines that do not get crossed. A lap dance but nothing more -- OK fine bro code can apply. I was simply trying to figure out where you stood on the rest. Again, among the buddies, silence is the code. I can deal with that to some extent (at least I know it exists). I just did know where you were coming down on the brother or the next steps. To a large extent the Qs were theoretical because all we know actually happened was the lap dance.

 

 

As long as we're clear that family trumps the boys on the serious stuff, I will go back to reassuring the OP -- who seems to have bowed out of this fracas -- that she needs to simmer down about one lap dance which her groom immediately disclosed. So again, even you would be defending your sister if her groom had sex with the stripper.

[SammySammy]

An Alpha male who isn't ashamed of what he is doing doesn't need to hide it from anyone.

 

Lying in order to impress the boys shows weakness because such behavior requires bending to your peer group.

 

At some point, most men outgrow the "bros before h**" mentality and that usually happens after leaving college.

 

Except it's not lying to impress the boys.

 

It's grown men stay out of other grown men's affairs. Minding your business. Not a difficult concept.

[BettyDraper]

Except it's not lying to impress the boys.

 

It's grown men stay out of other grown men's affairs. Minding your business. Not a difficult concept.

 

It's one thing to mind your own business...quite another to give tacit approval of reprehensible behavior due to some imaginary code. You and I agree that a lap dance isn't a big deal. I'm just wondering if this code you speak of extends to other areas. Would you invoke your "man code" if your daughter was married and you knew that your son-in-law was cheating on her?

[SammySammy]

It's one thing to mind your own business...quite another to give tacit approval of reprehensible behavior due to some imaginary code. You and I agree that a lap dance isn't a big deal. I'm just wondering if this code you speak of extends to other areas. Would you invoke your "man code" if your daughter was married and you knew that your son-in-law was cheating on her?

 

If my son-in-law and I were friends, do you really think he would cheat on my daughter in front of me? And think he would get away with it? Any guy with a lick of sense should know a father (or a brother) is going to be upset and probably go ballistic in that situation.

 

Your what-if scenarios aren't making sense.

 

Would I tell my daughter if my future son-in-law got a lap dance? Probably not. But, we agree on that so it's not an issue.

 

This is not about approving or tolerating bad behavior. It's about not creating problems where there are none.

 

My general belief is men should not be messy. Not be busybodies. I have a problem with the idea that men should tell everything they know. There is something to be said about being circumspect. Knowing when it's time to keep your mouth shut and stay out of another man's relationship.

 

I'm really skeptical about men that can't keep their mouths shut. Have to tell everything. There's something wrong with that and I tend to avoid them like the plague.

 

We have a phrase for men like that, but I can't say it on this site. It's vulgar, but descriptive.

Edited August 21, 2017 by MidKnightDreams

[BettyDraper]

If my son-in-law and I were friends, do you really think he would cheat on my daughter in front of me? And think he would get away with it? Any guy with a lick of sense should know a father (or a brother) is going to be upset and probably go ballistic in that situation.

 

Your what-if scenarios aren't making sense.

 

Would I tell my daughter if my future son-in-law got a lap dance? Probably not. But, we agree on that so it's not an issue.

 

This is not about approving or tolerating bad behavior. It's about not creating problems where there are none.

 

My general belief is men should not be messy. Not be busybodies. I have a problem with the idea that men should tell everything they know. There is something to be said about being circumspect. Knowing when it's time to keep your mouth shut and stay out of another man's relationship.

 

I'm really skeptical about men that can't keep their mouths shut. Have to tell everything. There's something wrong with that and I tend to avoid them like the plague.

 

We have a phrase for men like that, but I can't say it on this site. It's vulgar, but descriptive.

 

Well, if you believe that masculine men should keep things from their partners, then maybe a close family member would feel perfectly fine cheating on his wife in front of you. Just kidding!

 

I agree that men should not be messy though. Unfortunately, that kind of behavior is extremely common among women. A busybody woman is silly enough but a man who loves to gossip is even worse in my eyes.

 

That said, the OP's fiance was being honest with her rather than sharing information in order to cause drama.

[Els]

I watched a documentary about the Mongols. An American biker gang that rivals the Hell's Angels and many other bikers.

 

Those guys live by a code. They don't tell their women everything and women still love them.

 

The United States Marine Corp. Navy Seals. I can go on and on. Yes, fraternities. Code. Even the men in some families have a code. A way they do things.

 

Y'all might not like it, but men have always had codes. If you understood manhood and how men work together, you'd understand why it's not only desirable but necessary.

 

It's not the "codes" that are the problem. It's the fact that they're being used as an excuse to lie to one's partner that is the problem. I'm not sure the bikers and marines you mention will all be on board with themselves being listed as examples of people who would lie to their wives for their "bros", especially if said lying was all done for the sole purpose of going to a strip club. Come on... we're not talking about state secrets or protecting lives here.

 

Of course, none of this is relevant to the OP's partner - to his credit, he was honest with her. I'm taking issue with the suggestion that he's any "less of a man" just because he was honest with his wife. On the contrary, I think that it makes him MORE of a man to think for himself and to hold himself to a higher ethical standard, rather than going along with the brother's suggestion to lie.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Elswyth

[mikeylo]

OP, postpone the marriage.

 

Take your time to get into the right mind to be able to decide on your own. It really doesn't matter how or what others feel. It's about how you feel. You have to live with that decision. Take your time. Postpone.

[GorillaTheater]

OP, postpone the marriage.

 

Take your time to get into the right mind to be able to decide on your own. It really doesn't matter how or what others feel. It's about how you feel. You have to live with that decision. Take your time. Postpone.

 

 

I agree. The OP is the one who needs to be okay with what happened before she enters into something as dead-serious as marriage.

[SammySammy]

It's not the "codes" that are the problem. It's the fact that they're being used as an excuse to lie to one's partner that is the problem. I'm not sure the bikers and marines you mention will all be on board with themselves being listed as examples of people who would lie to their wives for their "bros", especially if said lying was all done for the sole purpose of going to a strip club. Come on... we're not talking about state secrets or protecting lives here.

 

Of course, none of this is relevant to the OP's partner - to his credit, he was honest with her. I'm taking issue with the suggestion that he's any "less of a man" just because he was honest with his wife. On the contrary, I think that it makes him MORE of a man to think for himself and to hold himself to a higher ethical standard, rather than going along with the brother's suggestion to lie.

 

My point in that post was men living by codes is common. Simply pointing out that several groups of men have codes.

 

Some people seemed to be suggesting that man laws or man codes were "ridiculous" - not a real thing. That's not the case.

 

Lastly, you have you'd have to be extremely naive to think men in brotherhoods - men who live by a code - go around snitching on their friends in some misguided attempt to be "ethical". That they tell their wives everything and wouldn't cover things like going to a strip club.

[Miss Peach]

OP I can understand how you feel.

 

When I got together with my BF I had been dating in poly so I don't typically have jealousy issues. I told him that I didn't want poly and that I expected him to be honest and upfront with me. I wouldn't necessarily take things off the table but it had to be a team sport.

 

Months later I found out he was visiting strip clubs monthly (on top of our fantastic, frequent sex life). I knew he had befriended one of them but I didn't know there were 2 others who he also met with outside the club. He did tell me when I point blank asked him about it but it wasn't something he disclosed to me ahead of time.

 

In your case I could probably forgive it as a one time thing even though I think if he really could put your interests ahead of his (which is important for a partner) he would have stood up to his buddies or at the most had a drink in the club and left. Clubs in my area also include touching.

 

In my case I still don't know whether to really trust my BF. But if yours has been solid everywhere else and it's not a pattern I can totally understand being hurt (and he probably would freak if the roles had been reversed). It's hurtful and feels like a betrayal.

 

The other thing I look for in these cases is the emotional connection. Many men go there for the connection with a woman. I doubt that was it in your case since it sounds like a one time thing. But that is where it pulls into dealbreaker to me. Lying about it too would be. Doesn't sound like it happened here.

[Arieswoman]

Every so often one of these threads comes up.

 

I really can't understand what the deal is with these "batchelor parties", maybe it's because I'm a stuffy 'ole Brit

 

IMO the issue here is not so much what happened at the strip club but the fact that the fiance allowed himself to be lead astray in the first place. He told the OP that he didn't want strippers but gave in to peer pressure.

 

And then his mates wanted to disrespect the OP by keeping it from her.

 

OK he "came clean", but then told the OP not to talk about it because he didn't want to look a wuss in front of his mates.

 

I would wonder how he would hold up under peer pressure in a different situation? Let's say all the guys at work were fiddling their expenses, would he go along with that?

 

OP I think you should postpone the wedding until you have your head together over this.

[Els]

 

I would wonder how he would hold up under peer pressure in a different situation? Let's say all the guys at work were fiddling their expenses, would he go along with that?

 

OP I think you should postpone the wedding until you have your head together over this.

 

To be fair, I wouldn't necessarily extrapolate caving in to peer pressure to do something that appears to be normal in the OP's culture, to committing legal crimes. Not saying the OP's fiance or his mates were right, just that I don't think we should assume anything else based on what he did.

 

That being said, if the OP really is cut up over this, postponing the wedding could be a good idea. Depending on how things work with registrations, that might not necessarily get her out of a legally-binding marriage though (in some cases the couple is registered before the wedding).

 

After reading this thread though, I must say that I am REALLY glad that I'm not with a guy from such a culture! Would be a total culture shock for both of us.