Affair rules

[Overtaxed]

I've had this discussion with my WW many times, and, despite hearing her reasoning, I still don't get, in general, how women fall into an A knowing what's almost certain to happen and also knowing that they almost certainly aren't going to get what they want (love/commitment). Men, the situation is different, a lot of men, AP's or not, are more interested in sex, and they will absolutely get that out of an A, so, the goals line up with the actions.

 

[]

 

Simply put, if sex with someone new isn't your goal, getting into an A is almost always the wrong answer. It's still the wrong answer even if your after sex, but, at least then you'll get what you came for. It just stuns me that so many women seem to fall into this, approaching the rate men do, when the repercussions are so much more severe for women (most men D cheating women, most women do not D cheating me; the social stigma if it becomes public, etc).

 

I wish, every day, that I could go back in time and share this stuff with my W. Would it have mattered? IDK, but at least I would feel like the "shock" of seeing her AP for who he really is wouldn't have her questioning everything like it does today. It's sad to see in person, and even sadder when I read dozens of stories about women who really believe their A is different. Sure, perhaps some of them are, just like there will eventually be a story about an EA with physical proximity that wasn't really a PA. But it's a unicorn, it's not something that happens with any regularity, and women, going in, should expect the following as the rules and what will actually happen during the A.

Edited August 22, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Commercial links redacted

[jenkins95]

[]

 

Great idea for a post Overtaxed. I hope this steers people away from an A. As you so often post, most MM, me included, go into an A to get "extra", not "replacement". As long as the A remains secret, they get the best of both worlds and cake eat, but when the sh*t hits the fan and they have to choose, they nearly always choose the marriage because most of their eggs are in that basket.

 

They may well developed feelings for the OW - I did. But that very rarely is enough to blow up their entire works and that of their family. They know what side their bread is buttered on.

Edited August 22, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Full quote of starting post redacted

[knabe]

I'm going to be blunt. For most women, the A isn't about how wonderful the OM is.

 

It is about how the OM makes her feel COMPARED TO how her husband is (or isn't) making her feel.

 

The answer, then, it would seem, is not to convince women that all OM are predatory jerks, especially if an affair is over.

 

The first order of business is to decide whether to stay. Then whether or not to actually try to have a good marriage. If the answer to those two questions is yes....

 

Object lessons about OM's are not nearly as important as knowing how to love one's wife.

[stillafool]

From what I've read most women do enter affairs because they aren't sexually satisfied at home (they like to call it attention). Most women who were involved in affairs rave about how awesome the sex was with their OM. Yes most MM will not leave their wives but most WW do not want to leave their husbands either.

[Overtaxed]

From what I've read most women do enter affairs because they aren't sexually satisfied at home (they like to call it attention). Most women who were involved in affairs rave about how awesome the sex was with their OM. Yes most MM will not leave their wives but most WW do not want to leave their husbands either.

 

I haven't read that before, but, if it's true, that makes sense. And maybe that's it; women are calling "great sex" attention instead of what it really is. I've read enough stories to know that most women do cite attention as a big reason for the A, so, if so, then it does all make sense, they are cheating for the same reason most men are (sex) and they get that from the A. However, that does suppose that you're right, the main reason for women cheating is sexual dissatisfaction, something that doesn't line up with most of what I've seen on here or elsewhere.

 

Statistically, women are far more likely to leave to be with an AP than men. I can look it up, but it's something like 2-1 IIRC. Men rarely have exit affairs, for women, it's one of the if not the most common type. Men have affairs to add, women have affairs to replace. All of this is in general, of course you can find counterexamples, but I think that the trend does hold.

[DKT3]

I'm going to be blunt. For most women, the A isn't about how wonderful the OM is.

 

It is about how the OM makes her feel COMPARED TO how her husband is (or isn't) making her feel.

 

The answer, then, it would seem, is not to convince women that all OM are predatory jerks, especially if an affair is over.

 

The first order of business is to decide whether to stay. Then whether or not to actually try to have a good marriage. If the answer to those two questions is yes....

 

Object lessons about OM's are not nearly as important as knowing how to love one's wife.

I agree that it's what a WW feels that hooks her. I would not necessarily say it's how OM makes her feel but more of her actually making an effort and being excited to do so.

 

Now, this idea that it's always somehow related to what the husband isn't doing is bullchit. I never understood why women stick to this copout. Yet would a man say he cheated because his wife wouldn't give him some, those same women would deem it ridiculous.

 

OT you will never understand, no matter how clearly the picture is. It's all in the mind tricks. First it's, "oh, it's only a little harmless___" then it's "I won't let it go any further" then it's "OMG he is so amazing, my soulmate" unlike the impression that knabe or many others here attempt to give this is all about a lack of boundaries and respect on her part and has nothing to do with what the husband is or isn't doing.

[knabe]

many women want to be accepted and desired for exactly who they are. If they cannot have the with the man who promised it to them, they are vulnerable and may look elsewhere. It doesn't justify it - NOTHING justifies it. The choice to have an affair is always a failing of the cheater.

 

But it is a fact for some women.

[DKT3]

I haven't read that before, but, if it's true, that makes sense. And maybe that's it; women are calling "great sex" attention instead of what it really is. I've read enough stories to know that most women do cite attention as a big reason for the A, so, if so, then it does all make sense, they are cheating for the same reason most men are (sex) and they get that from the A. However, that does suppose that you're right, the main reason for women cheating is sexual dissatisfaction, something that doesn't line up with most of what I've seen on here or elsewhere.

 

Statistically, women are far more likely to leave to be with an AP than men. I can look it up, but it's something like 2-1 IIRC. Men rarely have exit affairs, for women, it's one of the if not the most common type. Men have affairs to add, women have affairs to replace. All of this is in general, of course you can find counterexamples, but I think that the trend does hold.

 

Yes it's 2-1 give or take. 66% of unfaithful women have a desire to be with AP but only 20% will go. While 15% of unfaithful men desire to be with AP and 9% go.

[Overtaxed]

I'm going to be blunt. For most women, the A isn't about how wonderful the OM is.

 

It is about how the OM makes her feel COMPARED TO how her husband is (or isn't) making her feel.

 

The answer, then, it would seem, is not to convince women that all OM are predatory jerks, especially if an affair is over.

 

The first order of business is to decide whether to stay. Then whether or not to actually try to have a good marriage. If the answer to those two questions is yes....

 

Object lessons about OM's are not nearly as important as knowing how to love one's wife.

 

Well, it depends how you look at it. Maybe the answer isn't to convince women that most OM are jerks, but it's not a bad start. That feeling is fake, it's like the feeling you can get from a bottle of booze or drugs. And we try to convince people all the time that both of them are bad ideas. I think if more women realized those feelings from the OM are often faked, they'd be much less willing to enter an A just for sex. All the time? No, of course not. But, would it help? Yes, I think it would; that's why I love that monologue from the "player" that gets posted up here; I have no idea if it's true/real or not, but it's certainly how some MM operate in bedding women outside of their marriage.

 

To your last point, no, not at all. For me, it's an intellectual curiosity, it does nothing to help my W and I heal. But it is one of the things that I struggle with from the A; in some ways, it would be easier if my W said "It was for sex", because that makes sense to me. But it wasn't, and it's not for some large percentage of women who post on this board (and some men as well). And that makes me wonder, if women knew that love and really caring about them was a very unlikely situation in an A, would they still do it? Maybe, because OM can be smooth, and it's typical these things happen with the WS is weak for another person in some way. But at least know what you're doing going in, know what to expect, know the "rules".

 

Let me reverse it, if the rules of an A were that they were almost always emotional only, and sex almost never happened; and men knew that, most would avoid an A like the plague. Very few men would purse that kind of relationship and, if they found themselves there, would probably try to get out of it quickly because that's not fulfilling for most men. But, situation is, an A for a man typically means "Lots of sex" and "Kinky sex", two things that are very strong motivators for most of us. So we purse it, and most of us male APs get what they were looking for from it. Do most female APs? I think the answer there is very often "no".

[DKT3]

many women want to be accepted and desired for exactly who they are. If they cannot have the with the man who promised it to them, they are vulnerable and may look elsewhere. It doesn't justify it - NOTHING justifies it. The choice to have an affair is always a failing of the cheater.

 

But it is a fact for some women.

 

Hmm, funny, because if you ask BH most will tell you Thier wives where pretty secretive about many aspects of thier life. How can one no and accept if they don't know what they don't know or what they need to except?

 

Again, infidelity is always about the cheater no matter what justification they dig up. Remember, infidelity is only the third or fifth leading cause of divorce depending upon what you look at. So most people find a way out of undesirable situations within it being between someone else's legs.

[knabe]

Hmm, funny, because if you ask BH most will tell you Thier wives where pretty secretive about many aspects of thier life. How can one no and accept if they don't know what they don't know or what they need to except?

 

Again, infidelity is always about the cheater no matter what justification they dig up. Remember, infidelity is only the third or fifth leading cause of divorce depending upon what you look at. So most people find a way out of undesirable situations within it being between someone else's legs.

 

Not the topic. I'm not justifying an affair. Ignore whatever you don;t like and take the rest.

 

I think men sometimes make the mistake of thinking that women think like men.

 

Most of us don't ,in spite of what Gloria Steinem says. We do not weigh out the pros, cons, and likelihoods of reality.

 

We're lonely, we feel inadequate, someone comes along and makes us feel like we exist and are special, and we respond. Hopefully we respond by shutting it down and telling our hubbies. Sometimes we don't, and then we need to work HARD on ourselves and take responsibility.

 

It may well be that men would draw some logical conclusion by being presented with cold evidenced that an affair is a bad idea. But then again, I read things men write in the midst of the fog....and perhaps not. A woman in the midst of an affair is not going to be logical. A woman after an affair doesn't have a tardis.

 

I wish women who were vulnerable would heed the wisdom that most OM are just looking for a piece of tail....but sadly they probably won't.

[DKT3]

Not the topic. I'm not justifying an affair. Ignore whatever you don;t like and take the rest.

 

I think men sometimes make the mistake of thinking that women think like men.

 

Most of us don't ,in spite of what Gloria Steinem says. We do not weigh out the pros, cons, and likelihoods of reality.

 

We're lonely, we feel inadequate, someone comes along and makes us feel like we exist and are special, and we respond. Hopefully we respond by shutting it down and telling our hubbies. Sometimes we don't, and then we need to work HARD on ourselves and take responsibility.

 

It may well be that men would draw some logical conclusion by being presented with cold evidenced that an affair is a bad idea. But then again, I read things men write in the midst of the fog....and perhaps not. A woman in the midst of an affair is not going to be logical. A woman after an affair doesn't have a tardis.

 

I wish women who were vulnerable would heed the wisdom that most OM are just looking for a piece of tail....but sadly they probably won't.

So it's the husband's fault, that all I'm getting out of your comments.

 

In my situation, I was an a-hole, always had been. But I was caring towards my wife loved her complimented her, made alot of effort in making her feel special and love. She simply stopped responding. Even went so far as to say "why do you do this stuff, because you feel you have too?"

 

She found an affair just because he wasn't me, he was someone she could control and did whatever she wanted. I have never been that guy, never will be. So, explain to me how it was my fault?

[Mrs. John Adams]

I am only going to speak for myself. []

 

I was feeling bad about myself...I felt like my husband was leaving me behind....I was insecure and even resentful...and i convinced myself...that he no longer cared about me. Do notice i said i convinced myself....it was not a fact...but it was how i felt.

 

This was not about sex at all. The om gave me the attention i needed....he praised me for being intelligent. He called on me in class and complimented me on always being prepared and having the answers....and then he would challenge me.

 

You can all sit around and speculate ...

 

But this It is about how the OM makes her feel COMPARED TO how her husband is (or isn't) making her feel is spot on

 

This is not a REASON to cheat....this is not an EXCUSE to cheat...but it certainly lays the groundwork for many women to make the choice to cheat.

Edited August 22, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Topical content

[knabe]

So it's the husband's fault, that all I'm getting out of your comments.

 

In my situation, I was an a-hole, always had been. But I was caring towards my wife loved her complimented her, made alot of effort in making her feel special and love. She simply stopped responding. Even went so far as to say "why do you do this stuff, because you feel you have too?"

 

She found an affair just because he wasn't me, he was someone she could control and did whatever she wanted. I have never been that guy, never will be. So, explain to me how it was my fault?

 

You are getting that because you choose to, which I understand given your bias. That is not what I mean at all.

 

The OP is asking if women would avoid affairs if you could logically convince them the OM is always full of it. I say no because that is not, at its core, why most women get into affairs. I could explain why some people choose to commit murder. It wouldn't mean murder is right or that it is the victim's fault.

[Overtaxed]

I think men sometimes make the mistake of thinking that women think like men.

 

Most of us don't ,in spite of what Gloria Steinem says. We do not weigh out the pros, cons, and likelihoods of reality.

 

We're lonely, we feel inadequate, someone comes along and makes us feel like we exist and are special, and we respond. Hopefully we respond by shutting it down and telling our hubbies. Sometimes we don't, and then we need to work HARD on ourselves and take responsibility.

 

It may well be that men would draw some logical conclusion by being presented with cold evidenced that an affair is a bad idea. But then again, I read things men write in the midst of the fog....and perhaps not. A woman in the midst of an affair is not going to be logical. A woman after an affair doesn't have a tardis.

 

I wish women who were vulnerable would heed the wisdom that most OM are just looking for a piece of tail....but sadly they probably won't.

 

Oh, did I ever make that mistake! I thought that most people did the "cost/benefit" analysis on most decisions in their lives, especially really important ones like an A. And that's not how it work, usually for women (it seems) and sometimes for men.

 

I think that men in A's are very often logical. Sure, during disclosure, it becomes very muddy; I felt something, I was neglected, I didn't get my needs met. But that's because that's what women need to hear, and men know that, so they parrot those lines. However, I think it's very often a cold/rational decision, I want to have more/new/different sex, wife won't give it to me, easiest way to get that, have an A. One leads to the next. Doesn't make it good, it's actually kind of frankly awful, especially when the OW is married. But it's rational, it's thought out, and it makes sense in a twisted/sick way.

[knabe]

Oh, did I ever make that mistake! I thought that most people did the "cost/benefit" analysis on most decisions in their lives, especially really important ones like an A. And that's not how it work, usually for women (it seems) and sometimes for men.

 

I think that men in A's are very often logical. Sure, during disclosure, it becomes very muddy; I felt something, I was neglected, I didn't get my needs met. But that's because that's what women need to hear, and men know that, so they parrot those lines. However, I think it's very often a cold/rational decision, I want to have more/new/different sex, wife won't give it to me, easiest way to get that, have an A. One leads to the next. Doesn't make it good, it's actually kind of frankly awful, especially when the OW is married. But it's rational, it's thought out, and it makes sense in a twisted/sick way.

 

Unless your wife told you that her reasoning for the affair was this cold, logical, reasoning....it would probably be more beneficial to believe her feelings than force her narrative into your own just because your own makes more sense to YOU.

 

That's kind of what makes a woman feel invisible.

[Buckeye2]

many women want to be accepted and desired for exactly who they are.

 

If a woman is giving out free no strings attached sex she will have men lined up at her door. These men will be very happy to accept and desire her for exactly who she is then go to their home without her.

 

If they cannot have the with the man who promised it to them, they are vulnerable and may look elsewhere.

 

So the husband promised to accept and desire her for exactly who she is? Did the wife promise the same thing to her husband?

 

Marriage involves many strings, affairs don't.

[knabe]

If a woman is giving out free no strings attached sex she will have men lined up at her door. These men will be very happy to accept and desire her for exactly who she is then go to their home without her.

 

 

 

So the husband promised to accept and desire her for exactly who she is? Did the wife promise the same thing to her husband?

 

Marriage involves many strings, affairs don't.

 

 

Again....not the topic. This is not about justifying affairs or gender wars.

 

The OP posited that a woman will choose not to cheat if she is given article links and cold hard facts. Several WOMEN on this thread have offered valuable insight into what may be going on in a woman's mind when she is vulnerable to an affair. Believe it or don't. Accept it or argue.

 

I'm speaking as a woman.

 

It seems infantile not to be able to have a conversation about what women might be feeling prior to an affair without resorting to reminding everyone they are wrong or "what about meeeee" rebuttals. Of course husbands should be loved and accepted. Of course a spouse who feels neglected should speak up.

[Mrs. John Adams]

OT...i can tell you that your wife was feeling very much like myself and knabe. There were things going on in her life that caused her to question who she was and what she was feeling. For lack of a better word...she was vulnerable.

 

She had history with the OM...she already trusted him as a co worker and as a friend.

 

He offered to her....in her own mind....the things the she felt were emotionally lacking in her relationship with you.

 

The trouble is...she did the exact same thing i did. I CONVINCED myself that john no longer cared....and she convinced herself that you no longer cared.

 

SO you take a wife who is questioning her self worth...you have a husband who is absolutely clueless because he is NOT a mind reader...you throw in an OM who sees where she is vulnerable...he sees a way to get her into bed...and BANG

 

AFFAIR

 

No one is blaming the BH...no one.

 

You asked a question and we are trying to answer it honestly and then we have BH who want to tell us that is NOT how we felt.

 

Yes it is.....

[DKT3]

I am only going to speak for myself. The only one on this thread so far that has any clue what she is talking about is knabe.

 

I was feeling bad about myself...I felt like my husband was leaving me behind....I was insecure and even resentful...and i convinced myself...that he no longer cared about me. Do notice i said i convinced myself....it was not a fact...but it was how i felt.

 

This was not about sex at all. The om gave me the attention i needed....he praised me for being intelligent. He called on me in class and complimented me on always being prepared and having the answers....and then he would challenge me.

 

You can all sit around and speculate ...

 

But this It is about how the OM makes her feel COMPARED TO how her husband is (or isn't) making her feel is spot on

 

This is not a REASON to cheat....this is not an EXCUSE to cheat...but it certainly lays the groundwork for many women to make the choice to cheat.

 

So, you can only speak for yourself right before you said all women cheat because how the OM makes them feel and that I don't know what I'm talking about by sharing part of my story?

 

Again, in your own words your affair was about you doing what my wife did, that is stopped responding to your husband. That has nothing to do with how he cared for your feeling. Yet you accepted and/or responded to OM. Isn't that about your effort? Your excitement? You know hearing or getting what you got at home from a different source?

[Overtaxed]

Unless your wife told you that her reasoning for the affair was this cold, logical, reasoning....it would probably be more beneficial to believe her feelings than force her narrative into your own just because your own makes more sense to YOU.

 

That's kind of what makes a woman feel invisible.

 

Oh no, she didn't tell me that at all. And I do believe it was her feelings, not logic that led her here; in fact, I think that's almost always it for women. There's only one female poster I see on here who seemed to find their way into an A via logic.

 

It's not that I think logic is my W's reason, in fact, this isn't really about her at all, although her A shares the same characteristics, it's more the "general" discussion.

[Mrs. John Adams]

So, you can only speak for yourself right before you said all women cheat because how the OM makes them feel and that I don't know what I'm talking about by sharing part of my story?

 

Again, in your own words your affair was about you doing what my wife did, that is stopped responding to your husband. That has nothing to do with how he cared for your feeling. Yet you accepted and/or responded to OM. Isn't that about your effort? Your excitement? You know hearing or getting what you got at home from a different source?

 

ok...first of all ...i did not say ALL women...i said MANY women. There is a difference.

 

And my post was very personal about my feelings...i don't have a clue how your wife was feeling.

 

and please don't attack me.

[elaine567]

Object lessons about OM's are not nearly as important as knowing how to love one's wife.

 

I agree, women are on LS all the time who are with men who have absolutely no idea of how to treat a woman, men who have little idea about sex and the female, little idea about how to turn on a woman, little idea of how she thinks, little idea of what she would want and need... etc. etc.

 

I do however "blame" the women too, so many women are really unhappy about how they are treated by their husbands yet put up with it, cover it up, make the best of it..etc.

Some women can be terrified to assert themselves too, the traditional male/female dynamic can make frank discussions almost impossible.

Women in marriages often adopt the traditional role, so do not want to rock the boat too far, especially if they have kids or are financially dependent.

 

THEN along comes some guy who is understanding, who gets her, who actually listens, who takes her out, who makes her feel good, who gives her better sex and she is hooked.

She may have aspirations for the EM relationship or she may not, but she takes what she can get, as the alternative is back to the unsatisfactory marriage.

 

So whilst warnings about predatory OMs may put off some, for others they may be just happy they have someone in their life who is giving them some of what they actually want, and thus who really cares if the OMen are just using them... it is a trade off.

[knabe]

Oh no, she didn't tell me that at all. And I do believe it was her feelings, not logic that led her here; in fact, I think that's almost always it for women. There's only one female poster I see on here who seemed to find their way into an A via logic.

 

It's not that I think logic is my W's reason, in fact, this isn't really about her at all, although her A shares the same characteristics, it's more the "general" discussion.

 

Despite men's arguments, the "women" responding are all saying the same thing. So instead of debating whether it is the man's "fault" (which none of us said)...maybe a MAN should just take a woman's word at face value.

 

I think DKT had a good point earlier about control. I mean, when a man wants to control how random women on the internet think and speak....there may be something there to examine. Is that how he responds to and interacts with his wife?

[DKT3]

ok...first of all ...i did not say ALL women...i said MANY women. There is a difference.

 

And my post was very personal about my feelings...i don't have a clue how your wife was feeling.

 

and please don't attack me.

 

Only asked questions for clarity, albeit with a hint of sarcasm. However, you came in right away saying we didn't know what we were talking about.