Affair rules

[DKT3]

Despite men's arguments, the "women" responding are all saying the same thing. So instead of debating whether it is the man's "fault" (which none of us said)...maybe a MAN should just take a woman's word at face value.

 

I think DKT had a good point earlier about control. I mean, when a man wants to control how random women on the internet think and speak....there may be something there to examine. Is that how he responds to and interacts with his wife?

 

We're exactly did I disagree? Listen my educational background is human behavior, I know women in general are emotionally charged in most decision making. While men are in general more analyical. Deductive reasoning would say it's more likely that women are more feeling based in involvement in affairs. My point is you can't blame the husband. Many men out there have and will continue to emotionally abandoned his wife. It happens. However, suggestion that it's why they cheat is disingenuous. They cheat because or personal shortcomings.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Only asked questions for clarity, albeit with a hint of sarcasm. However, you came in right away saying we didn't know what we were talking about.

 

No I did not say you did not know what you are talking about...I said you are speculating...

 

I said the only one who had a clue was knabe..she is a woman.

 

This thread is about WOMEN who cheated. Not about the husbands of the wives who have cheated.

 

It seems to me...that the op asked a question because he is early in reconciliation and is doing his best to FIGURE out his wife's mindset.

 

Does it not then make sense that if women answer explaining their mindset at the time of their infidelity...it might give him insight to his wife's mindset.

 

So is it then right for MEN to correct how we felt? How can you tell me or any other woman...that's not the way she felt?

 

No one is saying our husbands were at fault...this is not about placing blame...it is about trying to understand each other....so it doesn't happen again.

[knabe]

We're exactly did I disagree? Listen my educational background is human behavior, I know women in general are emotionally charged in most decision making. While men are in general more analyical. Deductive reasoning would say it's more likely that women are more feeling based in involvement in affairs. My point is you can't blame the husband. Many men out there have and will continue to emotionally abandoned his wife. It happens. However, suggestion that it's why they cheat is disingenuous. They cheat because or personal shortcomings.

 

I did not blame the man. YOU interpreted it that way. I will not speculate as to why because that is not the topic.

 

You do not have to believe me. I was attempting to answer the OP's question as a woman, since he was asking about women.

[elaine567]

 

I think that men in A's are very often logical. Sure, during disclosure, it becomes very muddy; I felt something, I was neglected, I didn't get my needs met. But that's because that's what women need to hear, and men know that, so they parrot those lines. However, I think it's very often a cold/rational decision, I want to have more/new/different sex, wife won't give it to me, easiest way to get that, have an A. One leads to the next. Doesn't make it good, it's actually kind of frankly awful, especially when the OW is married. But it's rational, it's thought out, and it makes sense in a twisted/sick way.

 

I think some MW are also logical, we have had many women asking here they should have an affair, because their husband is not producing the goods or because they have had offers from other men.

Not every women is one hot emotional mess who will be helpless prey to a predator.

 

We have also had our share of hurt OMs who have been taken for a ride by MW out looking for "extra" too, or MW who have spectacularly led on men and when the chips are down will NOT leave their marriage as that was never their intention...

[DKT3]

No I did not say you did not know what you are talking about...I said you are speculating...

 

I said the only one who had a clue was knabe..she is a woman.

 

This thread is about WOMEN who cheated. Not about the husbands of the wives who have cheated.

 

It seems to me...that the op asked a question because he is early in reconciliation and is doing his best to FIGURE out his wife's mindset.

 

Does it not then make sense that if women answer explaining their mindset at the time of their infidelity...it might give him insight to his wife's mindset.

 

So is it then right for MEN to correct how we felt? How can you tell me or any other woman...that's not the way she felt?

 

No one is saying our husbands were at fault...this is not about placing blame...it is about trying to understand each other....so it doesn't happen again.

[]

 

His questions was how does a woman fall into an affair, and right away it's "because the husband isn't making her feel___"

 

It's just plain ole minimizing one own faults.

Edited August 22, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Reference to deleted content redacted

[knabe]

[]

His questions was how does a woman fall into an affair, and right away it's "because the husband isn't making her feel___"

 

It's just plain ole minimizing one own faults.

 

Nope. It is acknowledging feelings. But only someone with very weak character would make such a destructive choice based solely on that feeling.

 

You can choose to see it as blameshifting. Or you can get some insight into a woman's mind.

 

The cheater is ALWAYS 100% responsible for their choice to cheat.

 

However....when I see a man so intent on not having ANY blame about one topic....I have to wonder if he is resistant to taking any kind of blame about anything.

 

Which again brings us to control and never being wrong and why women feel invisible.

 

It can be a vicious cycle.

 

Cheating is always a wrong decision, and it can always be avoided by taking oneself out of the tempting situation and communicating with one's spouse. There is no excuse.

 

I have to wonder what you would say about a woman who regularly withholds sex from her husband...

 

But that is not the topic. Neither is blame.

Edited August 22, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Edited quote

[RecentChange]

I know I know, I am supposedly the weirdo for being a female who pursued sex with someone new, and it had NOTHING to do with commitment, or love or any of that, it was the “man’s reason” to have an affair apparently.

 

One thing I am going to point out, sex, even if an affair is “just about sex” for the man, its often a bit more than that. Just like some have pointed out here, its not so much about the OM, but the way the OM makes her feel….. well for a number of guys I think it’s the same story.

 

Sure its sex. But he wants to feel DESIRED. He wants to feel sexy. He wants to feel wanted. They are feelings, yes feelings tied to sex, but feelings none the less. Perhaps they are feelings that they wish they could find at home but doesn't.

 

If a man didn’t want to feel desired – why pursue an affair? Why not just hire a prostitute that will do it for a fee? Why invest so much time to blowing smoke up an OW behind? Why? Because if they invest that energy…. They get something in return. A woman who DESIRES them, and desires them sexually. Not one that is doing out of obligation because they were paid to. Not their wife who perhaps shows little interest or desire.

 

I surely didn’t fall “prey” to a married man. We both knew exactly what we wanted, and were up front about it. We wanted to feel desired. We wanted that electric excitement. It wasn’t really about him, he wasn’t that special, and it wasn’t really about me, I am not that vain, it was about what we could get from each other.

 

I wasn’t trying to take him away from his wife, I just liked feeling desired by him. And he wasn’t trying to make me his, again, he just liked feeling desired by me.

 

And we both recognized it was selfish, thats a word we tossed around often. Its classic cake eating.

 

I guess there are a number of them out there - but I always feel insulted as a woman when its suggested that affairs only start because women are foolish and dumb, and fall prey to these men who want sex, when all they want is "commitment".

[William]

To preface my review, I'll provide the directive, long worn here, that *all* opinion and experience provided to assist thread starters in their relationships is valid and valued by the administration of LoveShack.org and, as such, all are to be respected, even if in disagreement.

 

Now, moderation got a report of topic drift so I'll close this up, review for location and content and get things squared away and the thread back open to discussion presently.

 

In the meantime, members are always free to discuss their personal stuff via our private message system, presuming they're not moderated. Thanks!

--------------------

 

OK, I moved this to GRD since the topic is general and about affair rules. I also redacted two commercial/competing links as those are prohibited.

 

Adding personal experience regarding affair rules is acceptable and encouraged. However, please limit meta-discussions of personal relationships and stay focused on the topic. Members are free, and threads are free and unlimited, to start on personal relationships and discuss those in detail. Here the topic is affair rules. I edited very little content and only reminded the thread starter about the link rules. Thread reopened for discussion.

Edited August 22, 2017 by William
Review and reopen thread.

[understand50]

I've had this discussion with my WW many times, and, despite hearing her reasoning, I still don't get, in general, how women fall into an A knowing what's almost certain to happen and also knowing that they almost certainly aren't going to get what they want (love/commitment). Men, the situation is different, a lot of men, AP's or not, are more interested in sex, and they will absolutely get that out of an A, so, the goals line up with the actions.

 

[]

 

Simply put, if sex with someone new isn't your goal, getting into an A is almost always the wrong answer. It's still the wrong answer even if your after sex, but, at least then you'll get what you came for. It just stuns me that so many women seem to fall into this, approaching the rate men do, when the repercussions are so much more severe for women (most men D cheating women, most women do not D cheating me; the social stigma if it becomes public, etc).

 

I wish, every day, that I could go back in time and share this stuff with my W. Would it have mattered? IDK, but at least I would feel like the "shock" of seeing her AP for who he really is wouldn't have her questioning everything like it does today. It's sad to see in person, and even sadder when I read dozens of stories about women who really believe their A is different. Sure, perhaps some of them are, just like there will eventually be a story about an EA with physical proximity that wasn't really a PA. But it's a unicorn, it's not something that happens with any regularity, and women, going in, should expect the following as the rules and what will actually happen during the A.

 

 

Overtaxed,

 

I think this is a attempt, on your part, to try and understand why your wife had the affair. Why is always hard and almost impossible to fathom, as the "why" is many faceted. If one was to sit down and do a cost benefit analysis on weather to have an affair, I am sure in most cases an affair would not happen. But, you also have to give weight, to a person getting into a situation, where events just run on, and next they are in an affair. Humans, are not one off creatures, we all are different, and the "Why" we do things will change from one another. Try and understand why your wife did what she did, if she can explain just why she did it. In the end, I think, the only thing that will be left, is "because she wanted to, and she could". Accepting this will go along why to helping you understand and also let you both heal.

 

I wish you luck.......

[preraph]

Obviously you can't expect someone in an extramarital affair on either side to play by rules since they broke the most important rules already by dating.

[wmacbride]

Again....not the topic. This is not about justifying affairs or gender wars.

 

The OP posited that a woman will choose not to cheat if she is given article links and cold hard facts. Several WOMEN on this thread have offered valuable insight into what may be going on in a woman's mind when she is vulnerable to an affair. Believe it or don't. Accept it or argue.

 

I'm speaking as a woman.

 

It seems infantile not to be able to have a conversation about what women might be feeling prior to an affair without resorting to reminding everyone they are wrong or "what about meeeee" rebuttals. Of course husbands should be loved and accepted. Of course a spouse who feels neglected should speak up.

 

but nine times out of ten, they don't.

 

I have a friend who's husband cheated on her. It wasn't a long term affair, but it happened.

 

She found out and confronted him with the evidence. He confessed, and when asked why he cheated his answer " i couldn't stop myself". She asked him what she had been doing wrong that would make him want to cheat.

 

His answer? Nothing. It had been all on him. It had been online, and they had been planning to meet,but it never happened. His ow was married herself.

 

I understand trying to help people not cheat, but the truth of the matter is, there's not a lot you can do.

 

It's not bout being hit on or "pursued" ( a common excuse for affairs...he/she pursued me and I had no choice but to give in". That's nonsense. It's not about being unhappy or anything else.

 

It's because at that one point in time, cheating sounded like a good, or at least, acceptable option, and all the caveats in the world won't change that.

[wmacbride]

Nope. It is acknowledging feelings. But only someone with very weak character would make such a destructive choice based solely on that feeling.

 

You can choose to see it as blameshifting. Or you can get some insight into a woman's mind.

 

The cheater is ALWAYS 100% responsible for their choice to cheat.

 

However....when I see a man so intent on not having ANY blame about one topic....I have to wonder if he is resistant to taking any kind of blame about anything.

 

Which again brings us to control and never being wrong and why women feel invisible.

 

It can be a vicious cycle.

 

Cheating is always a wrong decision, and it can always be avoided by taking oneself out of the tempting situation and communicating with one's spouse. There is no excuse.

 

I have to wonder what you would say about a woman who regularly withholds sex from her husband...

 

But that is not the topic. Neither is blame.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't agree at all.

 

No one has control over someone elses actions.

 

I expect the answer to the question you posed would probably be " if he is unhappy, he should leave and not cheat".

 

I'm female too, and that doesn't mean I don't have to hold to the same social/ marriage contracts as everyone else.

[DKT3]

Nope. It is acknowledging feelings. But only someone with very weak character would make such a destructive choice based solely on that feeling.

 

You can choose to see it as blameshifting. Or you can get some insight into a woman's mind.

 

The cheater is ALWAYS 100% responsible for their choice to cheat.

 

However....when I see a man so intent on not having ANY blame about one topic....I have to wonder if he is resistant to taking any kind of blame about anything.

 

Which again brings us to control and never being wrong and why women feel invisible.

 

It can be a vicious cycle.

 

Cheating is always a wrong decision, and it can always be avoided by taking oneself out of the tempting situation and communicating with one's spouse. There is no excuse.

 

I have to wonder what you would say about a woman who regularly withholds sex from her husband...

 

But that is not the topic. Neither is blame.

 

In my situation, my wife had legitimate issues surrounding my actions and behavior to be upset and unhappy within the marriage. The thing is, so did I. But for her to attempt to use that as reasoning behind or in anyway contributing to her affair is minimizing her decision to have the affair. What I'm not saying is that in her mind it didn't play a part in that decision. Conflicting statement, I know. Let me explain. We get ourselves into trouble because we convince ourselves of things and will and do only make sense in our heads. It's like that rash of people years ago that started sueing bars and clubs for accidents involving drunk drivers. Sure, the bartender played a role in that person being intoxicated, however, played absolutely no part in that person's decision to climb behind the wheel and drive drunk.

 

As far as how another man made her feel...well boundaries were already crossed before he ever made her feel anything significant. She chose to put energy and effort into the OM instead of solving the issues within the marriage.

 

Our society has become one that neglects personal accountability in almost all aspects, it always covertly or no so, someone else we want to hold at least partially responsible.

[elaine567]

I have a friend who's husband cheated on her. It wasn't a long term affair, but it happened.

 

She found out and confronted him with the evidence. He confessed, and when asked why he cheated his answer " i couldn't stop myself". She asked him what she had been doing wrong that would make him want to cheat.

His answer? Nothing. It had been all on him. I.

 

OK but after being found out he is hardly going to give her a list of all the things she did wrong is he?

That would have gone down like a lead balloon and if he was mindful of saving his marriage and having been caught red handed, he is not likely to want to be seen as blame-shifting.

[RecentChange]

I say when it comes to affairs there are often reasons.

 

Now reasons are not excuses, but I do think it doesn't do anyone any good to ignore the reasons (besides the go to's, selfish and horrible person)

[somanymistakes]

People are complicated and their needs are fuzzy, I doubt it's as simple as "That. That one day, right there, when you didn't have sex with me. That's why I cheated."

 

I mean, when it comes to breakups, there are reasons, usually lots of reasons, but they're all murky and entangled. If it was one simple thing being wrong then you probably wouldn't break up

[wmacbride]

Overtaxed,

 

I think this is a attempt, on your part, to try and understand why your wife had the affair. Why is always hard and almost impossible to fathom, as the "why" is many faceted. If one was to sit down and do a cost benefit analysis on weather to have an affair, I am sure in most cases an affair would not happen. But, you also have to give weight, to a person getting into a situation, where events just run on, and next they are in an affair. Humans, are not one off creatures, we all are different, and the "Why" we do things will change from one another. Try and understand why your wife did what she did, if she can explain just why she did it. In the end, I think, the only thing that will be left, is "because she wanted to, and she could". Accepting this will go along why to helping you understand and also let you both heal.

 

I wish you luck.......

 

This post explains it well.

 

That the person you trusted to love you, to always be on your side, to be your partner has broken that trust. Not only did they make those promises to you, they may well have made them in front of a group of friends and family. they meant them enough when they said them, and had every intention of keeping them.

 

A few years later, husband or wife cheats, and it all comes crashing down.

 

My husband is a very analytical person who usually thinks things through before doing them. In his case, he was going through a lot, and while it's certainly his responsibility, he put in so much work on himself and has really grown as a person.

 

That doesn't mitigate any of the heartache he caused. had he known it was going to hurt his family ( me and our children) as much as it did? Probably not. he was getting something from the A and at that point in time, it overrode logic, loyalty and anything else that tied him to us.

 

If I ask him today, he says he still doesn't understand what happened, and this is after a whole lot of therapy, etc.

 

It really sucks ( excuse my language) as a bs to not understand. I have made my peace with knowing I'll probably never get an answer. It takes a while to get there, and some people can't find this acceptance and move on.

[wmacbride]

OK but after being found out he is hardly going to give her a list of all the things she did wrong is he?

That would have gone down like a lead balloon and if he was mindful of saving his marriage and having been caught red handed, he is not likely to want to be seen as blame-shifting.

 

You're wrong.

 

we are still friends with he couple,and to this day, he still doesn't understand it. He's been to therapists, couples counseling and even spoken with his priest to try and gain some insight.

 

He never did. Since all four of us have been touched by infidelity, it sometimes comes up in conversation. She still asks him what she did wrong, and he tells her it was nothing she did. He just wanted "more".

[sandylee1]

Reasons for As vary. Some are planned, others aren't.

 

The attention and compliments a WW receives can be a really flattering ego boost. When the words you hear are full of affection it can be like the new relationship feeling all the time.

 

The OM often wants to show he's better than the BH sexually and emotionally, so he ups his game... In reality he's not like that with his own wife at all.

 

A husband just can't compete with all the "Princess, darling, baby, sweetheart... ILY" It's great to receive, but it's not reality.

[Whoknew30]

Honestly, you're asking a question that won't ever be able to be answered to you bc you already have a bias...you even put it in your explanation to the question.

 

The sex is good for women too...in fact sex for women in the A is no different for the woman then it is the man. Have you ever seen for yourself how hard a man will run after an AP that tries to cut it off??? Of course ALL the men that you know "would never" bc it's only about sex, right? Complete nonsense, I've seen married, really successful men run hard after these women that they "supposedly" don't care for & not for "just sex", men don't run after one night stands or hookers.

 

You're making this all black & white " men only cheat for sex & never care" & "every woman gets used & is left heartbroken"...your logic simply isn't true & with that logic that you stick to, you can ask a million questions but will never actually find the answer you're looking for bc your mind is not open.

 

Your wife enjoyed the sex, as the better the sex got (which is does as you get more comfortable with OM) one starts to develop feelings. It's really simple...& don't think that the longer an A goes a man doesn't catch feelings, that's bogus.

[elaine567]

You're wrong.

 

we are still friends with he couple,and to this day, he still doesn't understand it. He's been to therapists, couples counseling and even spoken with his priest to try and gain some insight.

 

He never did. Since all four of us have been touched by infidelity, it sometimes comes up in conversation. She still asks him what she did wrong, and he tells her it was nothing she did. He just wanted "more".

 

Ok I get the "more", and maybe that is it, but he is still not necessarily going to say "why", ie the real reason "why" if it shows him up in a bad light, it further hurts or embarrasses his wife or he feels it is private and something he doesn't want to discuss.

Not everything is open for discussion even between spouses or good friends or counsellors or even priests.

[Whoknew30]

In my situation, my wife had legitimate issues surrounding my actions and behavior to be upset and unhappy within the marriage. The thing is, so did I. But for her to attempt to use that as reasoning behind or in anyway contributing to her affair is minimizing her decision to have the affair. What I'm not saying is that in her mind it didn't play a part in that decision. Conflicting statement, I know. Let me explain. We get ourselves into trouble because we convince ourselves of things and will and do only make sense in our heads. It's like that rash of people years ago that started sueing bars and clubs for accidents involving drunk drivers. Sure, the bartender played a role in that person being intoxicated, however, played absolutely no part in that person's decision to climb behind the wheel and drive drunk.

 

As far as how another man made her feel...well boundaries were already crossed before he ever made her feel anything significant. She chose to put energy and effort into the OM instead of solving the issues within the marriage.

 

Our society has become one that neglects personal accountability in almost all aspects, it always covertly or no so, someone else we want to hold at least partially responsible.

 

It's not minimizing the affair, to explain the motive behind the reasoning.

 

For example...if I find out someone stole all the money in my bank account & kill them, my motive doesn't make me committing murder ok but it will make one understand my logic. Reasoning never minimizes something but just explains the logic that was at the time.

 

My son has behavioral therapy everyday, there's always a bottom line to why someone commits behaviors, they get something from it or wouldn't be doing it. So finding the cause of behavior is not for the reason to justify the actual behavior, it's to figure out the reason behind the behavior to change it.

 

You're getting personal accountability & reasoning confused...they're very much two different thing not to be grouped together.

[DKT3]

It's not minimizing the affair, to explain the motive behind the reasoning.

 

For example...if I find out someone stole all the money in my bank account & kill them, my motive doesn't make me committing murder ok but it will make one understand my logic. Reasoning never minimizes something but just explains the logic that was at the time.

 

My son has behavioral therapy everyday, there's always a bottom line to why someone commits behaviors, they get something from it or wouldn't be doing it. So finding the cause of behavior is not for the reason to justify the actual behavior, it's to figure out the reason behind the behavior to change it.

 

You're getting personal accountability & reasoning confused...they're very much two different thing not to be grouped together.

Any time one uses a "reason" that includes someone else as playing a role in horrible behavior it's minimizing that persons accountability. We are all responsible for how we react to others actions. Not too that away the legitimacy of those actions, but no matter what they are you control your reaction.

 

How here would be ok with a man saying his wife's actions caused his reaction to be physical? This is no different.

 

The only option is not messing around with someone else, making that decision is independent of any behavior the other party displayed. Bottom line is people cheat because they want to. Convincing yourself that this person doesn't love you, or care or even like you isn't a precursor to having an affair.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand what you and the others are saying, and again I'm not saying these things don't play a part in why the cheater cheats. What I'm saying is it's not legitimate not fair.

 

Infidelity is only the third leading cause of divorce, which means most people get themselves out of undesirable situations with that solution being between someone else's legs.

[knabe]

It's sad that some either cannot or will not distinguish between a reason for vulnerability and a reason for cheating. There is no viable excuse or justifiable reason for cheating. But whether we want to admit it or not there are things that might make a partner vollmer obal to outside attention. You don't have to like it, but it's there

[Southwardbound]

Overtaxed,

 

I think this is a attempt, on your part, to try and understand why your wife had the affair. Why is always hard and almost impossible to fathom, as the "why" is many faceted. If one was to sit down and do a cost benefit analysis on weather to have an affair, I am sure in most cases an affair would not happen. But, you also have to give weight, to a person getting into a situation, where events just run on, and next they are in an affair. Humans, are not one off creatures, we all are different, and the "Why" we do things will change from one another. Try and understand why your wife did what she did, if she can explain just why she did it. In the end, I think, the only thing that will be left, is "because she wanted to, and she could". Accepting this will go along why to helping you understand and also let you both heal.

 

I wish you luck.......

 

I saw this and had to have a little chuckle over the 'cost-benefit analysis' premise. My OM is super logical in everything but... (which he admitted today in conversation) me. In this one instance, he said he just went with his gut feeling. Which is pretty much how I am most of the time. So, I think your conclusion that most 'people have affairs because they want to & can', is a correct analysis. Their logical mind system must have been lazy or asleep, Because if, one was married, and did look closely at having an affair using a cold-logical process of what they have to lose (unless they or their Marriage partner have ALREADY checked out of the marriage, but don't wish to admit it to themselves), the potential loss cost is usually way higher than the benefits they gain.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Southwardbound