Affair rules

[JohnAdams]

I know it is really a bitter pill to swallow, but no one who didn't want to be in an affair gets into one.

 

Very true, without a willing partner an affair will not happen. In reality, it is the WS's fault completely. They always had the option to shut it down.

 

I think most who are pursuing others simply throw out a line and see if they get a bite. If not, just move on to another person. Throw out a line enough and you will catch something. Both men and women will throw out lines if they see someone they are interested in reeling in.

[understand50]

I know it is really a bitter pill to swallow, but no one who didn't want to be in an affair gets into one.

 

The excuse of " he/she was pursuing me and I had to give in" doesn't make any sense. Of course you can say no. If you feel that you can't, then go to the police, hr department if it's in your workplace, etc.

 

The sample fact is that almost everyone in an affair is right where they want to be, and that is very painful for a bs.

 

Does this mean the ws and ow/om will always cheat/ get involved with someone who's married? Of course not, but unless that person figures out what it is in them that allowed them to see cheating as an acceptable option, there is high risk it could re-occur.

 

Spot on.

 

OT, in the end we all have free will. It takes positive actions on the part of the WS to have the affair. You have to decide to have sex, take off all or some of your clothes, and then get into a position to have sex. Unless, it is rape, all actions have to be by a consenting willing partner. Having a affair is a "positive action", as one has to be willing to participate.

 

I think for reconciliation to happen, the BS must come to terms that their loved one willing did this. One can not take any blame from the WS. Yes they could have been manipulated, yes there can be degrees, but in the end, they had sex with the AP. At the time it was going on, they could make believe that they were not doing anything wrong. Or they just did not care, or they thought the BS would not care. Many will regret it later, but not at the time they were involved and having sex.

[knabe]

I know it is really a bitter pill to swallow, but no one who didn't want to be in an affair gets into one.

 

The excuse of " he/she was pursuing me and I had to give in" doesn't make any sense. Of course you can say no. If you feel that you can't, then go to the police, hr department if it's in your workplace, etc.

 

The sample fact is that almost everyone in an affair is right where they want to be, and that is very painful for a bs.

 

Does this mean the ws and ow/om will always cheat/ get involved with someone who's married? Of course not, but unless that person figures out what it is in them that allowed them to see cheating as an acceptable option, there is high risk it could re-occur.

 

Exactly. A person must get to the bottom of what made them think CHEATING was a better option or coping mechanism than all of the other available.

 

If someone is very hungry because they cannot afford food, then it might make them VULNERABLE to stealing. But they STILL have a choice. They could go to a food bank. They could ask a friend. They could try to get a better job. They could seek government assistance.

 

Debating whether or not they were actually hungry is stupid. Of course someone without food is hungry. But if they choose to steal from the grocery store, they cannot blame the store for their stealing. Because they had other options.

[Southern Sun]

OK, let me preface this response with "I know I'm not like most people". But, I am like some people, I know other people like me, and I have to believe that the people who think like me are far more likely to engage in A behavior. I've never had an A, so, maybe it really is different in an A vs a typical relationship. But, I'll relate my experience.

 

I've never entered into a romantic or sexual relationship without intention. Never. I've always had clear intention when I met a women "I'd like to sleep with her" and tried to carry that intention through. I've never "slid into" a relationship, it was always a very deliberate and thought out act. And, I suppose, I think that most other men work this way. If I wanted to get with a woman, I built a plan, figured out a way to meet her/talk to her/spend time with her and then escalated the interaction as time went on. That's just how I operated, because the "falling into a relationship" thing didn't work for me, I never was friendly with women I wanted to be romantic with, so I had to actively seek it out.

 

I think my experience is more common that some women may think, women get hit on often, it's easy to "fall into" a relationship as a woman. For men, it's typically different, it's an active thing, you have to purse someone and intend to become sexual with them, not "wait for it to happen" because, in many cases, it never will.

 

Do all OM follow this track? No, I'm sure they don't. My W's did though, and I understand it, they worked together for years, I'm sure the entire time him hoping she'd "fall into" a relationship with him. Never happened, not until he actively started his pursuit.

 

I think your description above is perfect for how many women and a few men fall into an A. But I think many more men do premeditate this, I know friends of mine do (actively seek it out), and I know my wife's AP did. And I think it's more common than not, honestly, I can't see myself getting into an A any other way (other than pursuing a woman).

 

I think what you are describing - the purposeful pursuit of a woman - is often different than what happens in affairs.

 

Men and women in a normal relationship don't often just "fall" into it. Maybe in friendships that turn into romantic relationships, yes. But not in other kinds. Because they ARE looking for a relationship. What they are doing is okay. Affairs aren't allowed or okay, so nobody is doing anything. There is no plan. Right? Unless it's the "predatory" affair that you describe - innocent woman, man with an appetite. I don't know. I guess these happen.

 

In a regular relationship, you might set your sights on a woman, and get to work. You have a goal and you work to attain it.

 

But regular affairs are different. YOU YOURSELF tell us that you don't want an affair. Right? You aren't interested in having an affair. You tell us that you could have an affair if you wanted one. But you aren't interested. So let me tell you how you would end up in an affair if you did in fact have one:

 

Most likely, you would find yourself working with a woman you liked. You wouldn't think much of it, but you would be friendly. You might run into each other in the break room, or be assigned to work on a project together. Perhaps your offices are nearby. Maybe you have to travel together occasionally. You find yourselves having lunch together, chatting about your hobbies, favorite movies, whatever. You might grab a quick drink on that trip. Over time, as these things continue, you start to think about her more. You realize how pretty she is, even hot in that red dress. Every time she sits in your office to discuss the project, you're distracted by her perfume. You realize that you are emailing after work, finding reasons to contact her. She starts signing off with funny things, and next you are chatting about personal things over email. One day when you are working alone together in the conference room, she tells you about something going on at home, with her husband. You find yourself comforting her. You touch her arm. She looks at you. You want to do it again.

 

You see where this is going. It might take months. But one of you will confess feelings. This opens the door for the other to say the same. And off you go.

 

The only way this does not happen is for you to have FIRM boundaries. It sounds like you have them in place. You certainly aren't going to have a predatory affair, as you think men have, because you don't want one. But I can tell you that the only type of affair you might ever have is the one I just described...because you have no intentions to have an affair.

 

Just like lots of people.

 

I'm not claiming you will, don't get me wrong. Just trying to help you understand.

[Overtaxed]

I don't know. I guess these happen.

 

They do, because, if my W has told the whole story of the seduction, that's exactly what he did. Predatory A, no build up other than contact (non-sexual, no innuendo, etc) during a working relationship. And, sadly, I know other men who do this with some regularity, regularly grooming new APs.

 

Most likely, you would find yourself working with a woman you liked. You wouldn't think much of it, but you would be friendly. You might run into each other in the break room, or be assigned to work on a project together. Perhaps your offices are nearby. Maybe you have to travel together occasionally. You find yourselves having lunch together, chatting about your hobbies, favorite movies, whatever. You might grab a quick drink on that trip. Over time, as these things continue, you start to think about her more. You realize how pretty she is, even hot in that red dress. Every time she sits in your office to discuss the project, you're distracted by her perfume. You realize that you are emailing after work, finding reasons to contact her. She starts signing off with funny things, and next you are chatting about personal things over email. One day when you are working alone together in the conference room, she tells you about something going on at home, with her husband. You find yourself comforting her. You touch her arm. She looks at you. You want to do it again.

 

No, I get it, and this is why I never do some of the things you describe above. But, thing is, at some point, I'm going to make a decision to start to pursue. Sure, it's a "slide", but that slide won't lead anywhere until at some point one person (usually the man, not always) decides to pursue. Just like a regular relationship in some ways, you keep glancing at that person and catch them looking at you across the bar. But, if neither of you "makes a move" nothing will happen.

 

I guess, for me, I can't see having an A that wouldn't be a predatory A. Yeah, that probably makes me a bad person, but I just can't see it because that's never how I operated in the dating world. I pursued, I worked at it, and I decided what I wanted and tried to get it. It sounds like that experience is different from a lot of others, which is probably why I have trouble understanding how you it can happen absent that pursuit. And, as others said, it does probably make me a bit blind to other's intentions in some ways.

 

As a man of the world you must be aware of women giving you the "go" signals, so I am unsure why you think men are solely to blame for affairs when the OW/MW may have been "working on him" for weeks/months/ years... until he finally got the message and went into pursuit mode...

 

I'm not alone in this, but, yes, it is a bit comforting to think this way about my W's affair, and it is supported by much of the evidence that was uncovered. But you're right, and this is one of the areas where I've had a lot of conversations with the W. Yes, he made a VERY direct approach to start the A. So direct that I question, over and over, why on earth would he say that if you hadn't given him some indications/signs that his approach would result in an A, and not a rejection, call to his wife, and a possible horrible outcome. Was my W working on him for years? That's his story. But is it true? I don't think so. But, was there some reason that he felt a totally direct; "Want to have an A" approach would work? Yes, I think there was, and, even if my W isn't aware of it, I need her to figure out "why" he thought that would work so she becomes aware of what it was and stops doing it, stops sending out the "I'm up for an A" signs.

[knabe]

I need her to figure out "why" he thought that would work so she becomes aware of what it was and stops doing it, stops sending out the "I'm up for an A" signs.

 

You realize, of course, that she has to figure that out her way and not yours, correct? And that YOU obsessing over this topic and doing "research" is not going to help HER process it in HER way.

 

This is one of many things in life you cannot control.

[Overtaxed]

Very true, without a willing partner an affair will not happen. In reality, it is the WS's fault completely. They always had the option to shut it down.

 

I think most who are pursuing others simply throw out a line and see if they get a bite. If not, just move on to another person. Throw out a line enough and you will catch something. Both men and women will throw out lines if they see someone they are interested in reeling in.

 

That's been exactly my experience John, the men I know who admit A's to me, it's almost always a lot of lines in the water and a lot of rejection until they find a willing partner. Similar to dating for men, got to have a lot of irons in the fire to find a woman who's interested. But it's an "active" thing, you have to put lines out there and work at it.

 

All of this, while interesting discussion, does kind of explain the A rules. Men fish for them more because it's more advantageous for them. They desire what the A gives them more than women do. So they have to fish a lot more

[Overtaxed]

You realize, of course, that she has to figure that out her way and not yours, correct? And that YOU obsessing over this topic and doing "research" is not going to help HER process it in HER way.

 

This is one of many things in life you cannot control.

 

I do realize she has to find it her way.

 

Me obsessing about it is not intend to help her figure it out. It's one of the most important topics for me because, until she understands it, I don't know how to feel safe in the relationship again. I hope she eventually determines an answer, and we do talk about it, but, you're right, it's hers to figure out and process, not mine.

[knabe]

I do realize she has to find it her way.

 

Me obsessing about it is not intend to help her figure it out. It's one of the most important topics for me because, until she understands it, I don't know how to feel safe in the relationship again. I hope she eventually determines an answer, and we do talk about it, but, you're right, it's hers to figure out and process, not mine.

 

Stop obsessing. You can do it. You're a driven, goal-oriented guy. Just stop. She will understand HER truth when she understands it, and it will be real, not some forced under pressure attempt to appease you.

 

You think it's important for her to agree with your hypothesis. It's not. You already know he pursued. You already know that at some point she was receptive. I highly DOUBT your wife gives off some "let's have an A vibe," and I suspect you know she does not.

 

You want this to go "your way." Just stop. Drop it. Be a husband and let her be a wife.

[elaine567]

Yes, he made a VERY direct approach to start the A. So direct that I question, over and over, why on earth would he say that if you hadn't given him some indications/signs that his approach would result in an A, and not a rejection, call to his wife, and a possible horrible outcome. Was my W working on him for years? That's his story. But is it true? I don't think so. But, was there some reason that he felt a totally direct; "Want to have an A" approach would work? Yes, I think there was, and, even if my W isn't aware of it, I need her to figure out "why" he thought that would work so she becomes aware of what it was and stops doing it, stops sending out the "I'm up for an A" signs.

 

Problem is that many, many women especially at work and in close working environments with men, give out signals that could be interpreted as "go" signs.

We have many guys on here wanting to know "Is my co worker interested in me? and almost invariably when it boils down to it, all that flirting, all those looks, all that sexy banter and "obvious" signs she was giving out, result in a "NO" when he actually asks her out.

Flirting and engaging with opposite sex co-workers is what a lot of people do at work to pass the time.

 

The problem you have is not that your wife may be giving out "I am open to an affair" signals, it is that when actually pursued by a man, she did not say NO.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Problem is that many, many women especially at work and in close working environments with men, give out signals that could be interpreted as "go" signs.

We have many guys on here wanting to know "Is my co worker interested in me? and almost invariably when it boils down to it, all that flirting, all those looks, all that sexy banter and "obvious" signs she was giving out, result in a "NO" when he actually asks her out.

Flirting and engaging with opposite sex co-workers is what a lot of people do at work to pass the time.

 

The problem you have is not that your wife may be giving out "I am open to an affair" signals, it is that when actually pursued by a man, she did not say NO.

 

this is indeed the bottom line...and not just for OT...but for every betrayed spouse.

 

It is crippling to think that your spouse did not just say no....That they were capable of becoming this person that hurt you so badly....that they really are not the person you thought they were. I think this completely shatters not only your heart...but your mind.

 

Even today...while talking about this thread...it STILL hurts John to think about it.

 

Even those folks who divorced and remarried most likely STILL hurt when they think about their betrayal.

 

and the saddest part is...there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. You cannot take it away...you cannot undo it. You can move forward...and put time and distance between you and the affair....but it is forever a part of your life.

 

Sad isn't it....

[Southern Sun]

OT, I think you have to accept that there are different types of people: those that are "looking" for an affair and those that aren't.

 

According to your wife, her OM seemed to be looking for an affair. He approached her and asked. I would bet that she did give off 'something' he construed as being open to him, whether she meant to or not. Either he felt safe in asking or he was brazen. We don't know for sure.

 

The thing we DO know is that your wife was responsive. As other posters have said, an affair always requires two people saying "yes."

 

Some people will actively look for an affair and put out feelers. Other people will say they never looked for an affair and it snuck up on them. Men can be of the former and latter types, just as women can. Just because you seem to know a bunch of men who tell you of their exploits as if they conquer women left and right doesn't mean that is how all men have affairs, or even how the majority of men have them. Your sample is going to be skewed by the types of men you are around...they seem to be of a certain personality.

 

In my case...if I had to name a pursuer, my MM was more in that role than me. However, we had a totally appropriate relationship for a very long time. I think we mutually began to rely on each other in a more personal way around the same time. But that is from that feedback loop. Maybe he started it. Maybe I did, but unknowingly. From there it grew. Perhaps at some point he became more intentional about "landing" me...I don't know. It was a slow build and a lot of vague stuff before things were finally said that were obvious. At THAT point, he became a serious pursuer. Much like you describe. I was still a no, for a while...before I became a yes.

 

Not everything fits into a tidy box.

[Mrs. John Adams]

OT, I think you have to accept that there are different types of people: those that are "looking" for an affair and those that aren't.

 

According to your wife, her OM seemed to be looking for an affair. He approached her and asked. I would bet that she did give off 'something' he construed as being open to him, whether she meant to or not. Either he felt safe in asking or he was brazen. We don't know for sure.

 

The thing we DO know is that your wife was responsive. As other posters have said, an affair always requires two people saying "yes."

 

Some people will actively look for an affair and put out feelers. Other people will say they never looked for an affair and it snuck up on them. Men can be of the former and latter types, just as women can. Just because you seem to know a bunch of men who tell you of their exploits as if they conquer women left and right doesn't mean that is how all men have affairs, or even how the majority of men have them. Your sample is going to be skewed by the types of men you are around...they seem to be of a certain personality.

 

In my case...if I had to name a pursuer, my MM was more in that role than me. However, we had a totally appropriate relationship for a very long time. I think we mutually began to rely on each other in a more personal way around the same time. But that is from that feedback loop. Maybe he started it. Maybe I did, but unknowingly. From there it grew. Perhaps at some point he became more intentional about "landing" me...I don't know. It was a slow build and a lot of vague stuff before things were finally said that were obvious. At THAT point, he became a serious pursuer. Much like you describe. I was still a no, for a while...before I became a yes.

 

Not everything fits into a tidy box.

 

NOPE

 

The ap had not been in contact with Mrs OT for a year. It was Mrs OT who contacted the AP and arranged a lunch. My opinion is neither was LOOKING for an affair. However...I do believe because she contacted him after a year...he may have misconstrued the intent of the lunch...or did he? and can you blame him? He did not ASK to have an affair...he said I left my job because i loved you. And once again...she contacted him to pursue the I love you.

 

Look....My AP gave me his phone number...I am the one who called and set up the lunch. I am the one who is responsible.

 

Mrs OT is absolutely responsible...did the ap throw out a line? well yeah i guess saying I left my job because i love you is a line. But she could have ignored it and instead she contacted him again. WHY?

 

and this is the part that OT needs to be exploring. Why did she contact the AP for lunch...and why did she contact him a second time?

 

Because she was intrigued by the AP...because she thought he could offer her something that OT could not.

 

Do I think the AP is pond scum...yes i do...but OT is way off base ...and i understand why. My husband did the same thing...there is a lot of anger after an affair...and you need to direct it at someone...and if you choose reconciliation....you direct it at the AP. Perfectly normal reaction.....

 

But OT is hell bent on a mission to blame every AP out there that they pursued ...so they must be at fault.

 

Yes...the AP is at fault...but the AP is not your spouse. this is really not about the AP...this is about your relationship with your wayward...and how you can fix it. and the first step is...accepting TRUTH.

 

The TRUTH is i made the phone call to set up the lunch date...and what should have happened is I threw away the phone number. Mrs OT should NEVER have made a lunch date with the AP...and she CERTAINLY should not have made the second meeting to discuss why he said he loved her...and every meeting after that is completely and totally on her.

 

My heart breaks...because i know Mrs Ot is sorry...but OT has to place the blame for this infidelity where it belongs. Squarely on the shoulders of his wife.

 

I cannot undo what i did...but i certainly understand what i did...and i know the damage i have caused that i can never undo.

 

And I can tell you...no matter how much remorse i feel...no matter how many years go by...my betrayed husband still hurts...and will never forget what i have done. We have a beautiful life together....but the infidelity will never be erased. It does not Tarnish our everyday lives...it doesn't take away our happiness. But at the end of the day...it is still there.

[Southern Sun]

Okay, I was just going off of what was said in this thread. It's been a while since I've read OT's story.

 

This illustrates perfectly why I've always said that it is not the person YOU notice that is dangerous; it is always the person who notices you.

 

Mrs. OT fell for FLATTERY. Really quite common. It's what I fell for and it kind of sounds like Mrs. JA fell for it too. People like to be liked. Yes, our spouses like us (hopefully), but that grows stale after a time. We don't appreciate what we have. It's human nature. One has to be very self-aware and emotionally mature to stay in the realm of genuine appreciation for what we already have in life, rather than always looking to what we don't. That's a hard thing to do. Humans live to solve problems; we constantly improve; we measure our success on whether we can buy a bigger house, a better car. These things aren't inherently wrong, but our values are pretty screwed up. I doubt Mrs. OT was looking to "trade up" and I'm sure she didn't see her AP that way. But when someone comes along and it FEELS good...if you are not that solid kind of person, then you could be in for some trouble.

 

So Mrs. OT got noticed. I bet Mrs. OT had gotten noticed before in her life, and had never gone down that path. But it was something about what he said that felt different. Or something about the type of man he was combined with what he said...'you mean, he left his job for ME?? Little old ME?' She felt he was making himself vulnerable...taking a risk...for HER. That feels romantic.

 

It makes us feel SPECIAL.

 

It gets to our basic narcissism OT. It's really nothing more than that. When you peel back the onion, it's not very pretty inside. Call him a predator. Call him whatever you want. But if she called him and set up a lunch and then called him again...she was responding to feelings he provoked inside of her. Maybe you think he had these well-honed lines. I thought that for a time about my AP. Like, man, he knew exactly what to say to me!! But isn't that the pot calling the kettle black. Who's the one who fell for it, hook, line, and sinker??

 

He made me feel special. I think I made him feel special. Soooo special.

 

That is the illusion and it's what your wife fell for and you just have to accept that she wallowed in her base instincts for a while and it's simply unattractive and difficult to respect.

 

But. We are human beings and we all have that capacity, presenting itself in various forms. The problem is when one cannot overcome their base instincts, work valiantly on self-improvement, and measure themselves on things far more important than, for example, feeling 'special.'

[Mrs. John Adams]

I think the worry it has at this point and rightfully so... is that mrs it does not recognize when someone is hitting in her.. so his fear is she might do it again.

 

But like knabe said earlier... he cannot do this for her. She has to shore up her own boundaries.

 

I have found that being transparent helps me to keep my boundaries. If I am always truthful to my spouse ... if I tell him everything and keep no secrets from him... then it helps me to always be accountable.

 

The way I got into trouble was... I did not tell him... and therefore I could validate moving my boundaries.

 

Yes the ap flattered me and gave me attention... as mr ja said.. he threw out the line... but the next move was mine... I am 100% guilty... because I did not have to respond.

 

Is the ap guilty as well? Yes. But his guilt does not diminish my own... and he is not accountable to my spouse... I am.

 

Is he a predator? Yes I believe he is... but I am not a victim... he did not force me. That would make me a victim. I made the choice.

 

Anyone who has cheated... made the choice to do so. There may be all kinds of circumstances surrounding that choice.... but the choice was still the wrong one.

 

So I completely understand my betrayed having insecurities and fears that I made that choice once... I could certainly do it again.

 

And this is where OT is... he wants reassurance that she will not do it again.

[OneLov]

I bet Mrs. OT had gotten noticed before in her life, and had never gone down that path. But it was something about what he said that felt different. Or something about the type of man he was combined with what he said...'you mean, he left his job for ME?? Little old ME?' She felt he was making himself vulnerable...taking a risk...for HER. That feels romantic.

 

It makes us feel SPECIAL.

 

I agree with what you are saying SS, but I would like to offer this counterpoint:

 

I think there is a case to be made that it was not actually about this guy at all; rather, it could be Mrs. OT's then state of mind or emotional state that could have triggered her decision to engage with this man.

 

This is only my personal opinion, but I can't help but think that Mrs. OT was not in the best place mentally as she was coming to terms with the reality that being a parent was not in the cards for her. For someone who wants to be a parent, the denial of that dream can be absolutely crushing.

 

I'm predicating my opined assessment from my personal experience knowing someone who has experienced major depression associated with infertility; it can completely turn your life upside down. Mrs. OT could have been trapped in this barren mental desert. This guy could have appeared to be this oasis, but in fact, he was just a mirage.

 

I am not excusing or even commenting on the reasonableness of their behavior. We all know it was wrong--that has long been established. Despite this disclaimer, I know someone will offer a response in the conditional tense about what Mrs. OT could've, should've or what he/she would've done different. But unless you can invoke the powers of Captain Hindsight to come save her, it is really irrelevant and distracts from any momentum gained in reconciliation.

 

I think Mrs. OT's mental/emotional state should be examined, so if there is something going on, she can get the help she needs to feel better. I think OT needs to accept her answers, even if they do not make sense with him, to keep the channels of communication open. I cannot stress how important it is to listen to and support each other.

 

When we feel good; we do good.

Edited August 25, 2017 by OneLov

[Southern Sun]

I agree with what you are saying SS, but I would like to offer this counterpoint:

 

I think there is a case to be made that it was not actually about this guy at all; rather, it could be Mrs. OT's then state of mind or emotional state that could have triggered her decision to engage with this man.

 

This is only my personal opinion, but I can't help but think that Mrs. OT was not in the best place mentally as she was coming to terms with the reality that being a parent was not in the cards for her. For someone who wants to be a parent, the denial of that dream can be absolutely crushing.

 

I'm predicating my opined assessment from my personal experience knowing someone who has experienced major depression associated with infertility; it can completely turn your life upside down. Mrs. OT could have been trapped in this barren mental desert. This guy could have appeared to be this oasis, but in fact, he was just a mirage.

 

I am not excusing or even commenting on the reasonableness of their behavior. We all know it was wrong--that has long been established. Despite this disclaimer, I know someone will offer a response in the conditional tense about what Mrs. OT could've, should've or what he/she would've done different. But unless you can invoke the powers of Captain Hindsight to come save her, it is really irrelevant and distracts from any momentum gained in reconciliation.

 

I think Mrs. OT's mental/emotional state should be examined, so if there is something going on, she can get the help she needs to feel better. I think OT needs to accept her answers, even if they do not make sense with him, to keep the channels of communication open. I cannot stress how important it is to listen to and support each other.

 

When we feel good; we do good.

 

Great point. And I think it further makes the case that calling this OM a predator does OT no good in understanding why his wife had the affair.

 

Nor does it do anyone any good in extrapolating the reasons women have affairs in general.

 

I do NOT know this for a fact...I don't even know if there are good statistics on this...but I have to believe that the majority of affairs are not 'caused' by men as wolves in sheep's clothing.

 

Women choose to engage, just as men do, for their various reasons. Whether they get out of it what they think they wanted, going back to OT's original question - I suppose some do, and some don't. I think many times we are not even aware of what we want, going into an affair. I propose that men aren't always aware of what they want either, even if they think it's "just sex." I think RC said that while it's about sex...it's about the emotions wrapped up in sex too: admiration, attention, affection, acceptance. Many times, you don't know what you want until you start getting it.

[understand50]

OT,

 

I think the main rub, is Mrs OT doing the same again at a future date. Now, I am a believer that everyone one here is capable of cheating given the right set of circumstances. Mrs JA, John and others once discussed on a post this vary subject. What came out, is looking at the odds. Picking on Mrs JA, in a nice way, I think the odds would be very low, same for John, that she would ever cheat again. Too low for a bet in the cosmic casino of life. As long as they live there are odds they may cheat, but for all practicable purpose the odds are close to zero. The reason is, they both know the consequences, reasons and how the cheating happened. They now guard themselves at a higher level, then if nothing had happened. They are on the look out for it.

 

As to your wife, from what you have wrote, she is remorseful, repentant, and wants nothing more they to stay being your wife, and make you happy. She can not undo what has happened, but she knows now that she is capable of cheating and will guard her heart and self to a higher degree. She not one, to be a serial cheater. You should recognize this, and help her, by accepting all the hard work she has done and the length she has gone to try and make things right and also guard against this happening in the future. Celebrate, how far you both have come. Look forward to life together.

 

Giving a second chance is also forgiving, but not forgetting. Accepting that your spouse is capable of doing this, had free well and did this willing is one step. Helping them to not do this again, and recognizing when they do things right will, in the end, help you both heal and more forward.

 

One final thought, while both Mrs JA and Mrs OT, accept they are fully to blame and are responsible for their cheating, it does not excuse the AP from being a low life POS for going after a married woman. They were both weak, and "primed" so to speak. If they had not been pursued, or recognized as "ready", maybe nothing would have happened and this phase in their life would have pasted with nothing happening. Point is, as Mrs JA has pointed out, they both said yes, when they should had said no. They own that. They should have never been asked. The AP owns that.

 

I wish you luck....

[elaine567]

This is only my personal opinion, but I can't help but think that Mrs. OT was not in the best place mentally as she was coming to terms with the reality that being a parent was not in the cards for her. For someone who wants to be a parent, the denial of that dream can be absolutely crushing.

 

I'm predicating my opined assessment from my personal experience knowing someone who has experienced major depression associated with infertility; it can completely turn your life upside down. Mrs. OT could have been trapped in this barren mental desert. This guy could have appeared to be this oasis, but in fact, he was just a mirage.

 

I think Mrs. OT's mental/emotional state should be examined, so if there is something going on, she can get the help she needs to feel better. I think OT needs to accept her answers, even if they do not make sense with him, to keep the channels of communication open. I cannot stress how important it is to listen to and support each other.

 

Yes, I do not know what the current state of play is, but OT has tended in the past to downplay the "infertility" element, and has tended to use his own interpretations and opinions to substitute for what Mrs OT actually feels about the subject. He doesn't want kids ever and he seems to have persuaded himself that Mrs OT doesn't want kids either...

 

I feel that he is focussing on just about everything else in order to avoid the huge "infertility" elephant that straddled his marriage, and I guess continues to do so.

[wmacbride]

Overtaxed,

 

I totally understand your need to try and figure all this out. From what you say, your didn't see this coming, and you and your wife were, for the most part, doing well together.

 

This something that ws simply can't understand, unless they have been there. This is just my opinion, but you sound to me like someone who is very careful, analytical and cautious when it comes to let in someone in to see the real you..all the good, all the bad and all the ugly.

 

It's such a kick in the teeth to find out the person you let in treated you this way, and it just doesn't mesh with them at all.

 

I understand trying to figure out why a ws cheats. I know I spent a lot of time there myself. It's part of the reconciliation process. We see our spouse in pain, and even though it's of their own making, we want to help. We want to understand why they cheated and also to know that they understand why they cheated so it won't happen again. It's an act of self preservation.

 

All you can really do is keep communicating with your wife as much as you can. If you have a question or concern, ask her. Ask her what steps she's taking to change that part of her behavior and also if there is anything you can do to help in the areas she struggles with. Likely, there's not much you can do, but if she knows you are there and support her, it can make a big difference.

 

I know it's not fair, but part of a bs's "job" in reconciling is accepting that the A happened and all the associated crap that goes along with it. That will never change, what's done is done.

[elaine567]

Overtaxed,

 

I totally understand your need to try and figure all this out. From what you say, your didn't see this coming, and you and your wife were, for the most part, doing well together.

.

 

Er no, there were a lot of issues in the marriage for a long time prior to the affair, on the verge of divorce really.

 

But yes although rocky times, he never thought she would cheat.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/610566-low-sex-partner-affair-fresh-d-day

[knabe]

If you have a question or concern, ask her.

 

This will only work if the BS is willing to actually accept the answers. If the BS is bound and determined that their way of thinking be adopted at all costs, then asking is just a trap laid for the WS from whom they say they want transparency.

[road]

There are no affair rules.

 

No affair was special or unique.

 

The WS had the affair because they wanted to.

 

The WS always finds a false justification to

have sex with their AP.

 

Affairs are highly addictive and this is why they

are hard to break up and NC is a must to prevent

them from restarting.

 

Yes most marriages do not end after an affair.