Do people believe in virtues any more?

[jigwig]

First it seems that the basic understanding of the term for people under the age of 35 is questionable. For example, do we as a society as a whole value integrity? I can list many others.like common sense, logic and many other things it seems to be a lost concept. Do we attribute this to the break down of families, traditions, the disappearance of small community churches replaced by mega churches and social media?

[basil67]

I know a great many under 35's who have the qualities you think are missing. Hard working, socially aware, considerate, honest and trustworthy. And yes, I know a few people of that age who can't be described in this way.

 

ALL generations have a variety of people who vary between being good, bad and midline. I'm Gen X and we've certainly got our share of selfish people....and Baby Boomers have screwed our Australian property market for the younger generations.

 

Only a fool would think that older generations don't have their share of problematic people.

[jigwig]

Only a fool would think that older generations don't have their share of problematic people.

 

Of course it was not my intention to generalize, but the older I get the more apathy I see. I will accept your personal attack of me. But would rather hear your opinion about the question.

[carhill]

I think many value and practice having virtue and integrity and part of that is toiling to the standard in peace and without seeking notice. Even when confronted with paradigms of disorder and lawlessness, they proceed with virtue and integrity rather than descend into the same milieu and methods. Examine who gets the notice and attention and validation in life. We decide that as a society.

 

TBH, I haven't seen much change in my lifetime, although the anonymity of the internet has certainly consolidated and broadcast the realities of who we are, at least in part, to the wider world, good, bad and indifferent.

 

To compare, turn off the internet and media (TV, radio, etc) for a month and simply interact with people. See what happens. IME, virtue and integrity are alive and well, though sometimes drowned out.

[knabe]

I think many value and practice having virtue and integrity and part of that is toiling to the standard in peace and without seeking notice. Even when confronted with paradigms of disorder and lawlessness, they proceed with virtue and integrity rather than descend into the same milieu and methods. Examine who gets the notice and attention and validation in life. We decide that as a society.

 

TBH, I haven't seen much change in my lifetime, although the anonymity of the internet has certainly consolidated and broadcast the realities of who we are, at least in part, to the wider world, good, bad and indifferent.

 

To compare, turn off the internet and media (TV, radio, etc) for a month and simply interact with people. See what happens. IME, virtue and integrity are alive and well, though sometimes drowned out.

 

Extremely wise thoughts

[preraph]

I attribute it to a steady mudslide in parenting and role modeling, plus overreliance on internet and social media and not enough real-life interaction where you can't get away with so much crap or you won't have any friends or dates.

[basil67]

Of course it was not my intention to generalize, but the older I get the more apathy I see. I will accept your personal attack of me. But would rather hear your opinion about the question.

 

Umm....I gave my opinions in the first two paragraphs.

 

To add further; the older I get, the more I am jaded by my own Gen X and Baby Boomers where so many seem to care more about themselves than others. If my daughter and her cohort are anything to go by, the world will be in good hands with them at the helm.

[basil67]

Wait! I just remembered this article. Some excellent historical quotes from fuddy duddies complaining about young people's behaviour and declining morals

 

15 Historical Complaints About Young People Ruining Everything | Mental Floss

[elaine567]

To add further; the older I get, the more I am jaded by my own Gen X and Baby Boomers where so many seem to care more about themselves than others. If my daughter and her cohort are anything to go by, the world will be in good hands with them at the helm.

 

I feel that in general the older people get, the more they care about themselves and their immediate family than anyone else.

So whilst your daughter and her friends may seem to be more caring, once they get their own family around them, others do not matter so much.

Most people are all for the rights of the disadvantaged, the weak and the vulnerable when young, but by the time they age they are more worried about what they and their family are getting out of life than anything else and the weak and the poor are then looked upon as "scroungers" and "losers"...

[basil67]

I feel that in general the older people get, the more they care about themselves and their immediate family than anyone else.

So whilst your daughter and her friends may seem to be more caring, once they get their own family around them, others do not matter so much.

Most people are all for the rights of the disadvantaged, the weak and the vulnerable when young, but by the time they age they are more worried about what they and their family are getting out of life than anything else and the weak and the poor are then looked upon as "scroungers" and "losers"...

 

I think you're right to a degree. I do know some people who are like this, and while I am friendly with them, I don't really have a lot of respect for their self centred approaches. But I am heartened by many other older people I know who are committed to social justice and environmental change. The change you're talking about is not a given.

 

It's probably also worth giving the context that we live in Australia's most left wing area. People here tend to stick to their social justice roots.

[jigwig]

I think many value and practice having virtue and integrity and part of that is toiling to the standard in peace and without seeking notice. Even when confronted with paradigms of disorder and lawlessness, they proceed with virtue and integrity rather than descend into the same milieu and methods. Examine who gets the notice and attention and validation in life. We decide that as a society.

 

TBH, I haven't seen much change in my lifetime, although the anonymity of the internet has certainly consolidated and broadcast the realities of who we are, at least in part, to the wider world, good, bad and indifferent.

 

To compare, turn off the internet and media (TV, radio, etc) for a month and simply interact with people. See what happens. IME, virtue and integrity are alive and well, though sometimes drowned out.

 

 

 

I think my career has dimmed my perspective. Hardened me. Made me cynical. I think if I step away as you say. Unplug. I can draw on what you say.

[jigwig]

I think you're right to a degree. I do know some people who are like this, and while I am friendly with them, I don't really have a lot of respect for their self centred approaches. But I am heartened by many other older people I know who are committed to social justice and environmental change. The change you're talking about is not a given.

 

It's probably also worth giving the context that we live in Australia's most left wing area. People here tend to stick to their social justice roots.

 

I too am friendly, but exposed to so much crime and pure evidence on a daily bases that I have to remind myself that in the most difficult times it was often the kindness of strangers that got me through the worst of times. So, I can in good faith know that not everyone is evil.

[basil67]

What career do you have?

[todreaminblue]

i am big on virtues.....like loyalty, honesty, kindness, generosity, integrity humility altruism...and i guess i believe there are many who do because i cant be one of few.....its what i hold onto......the good i see in the world done by good peoples.....and i try my very best no matter how hard it gets however bad it is around me...to be good peoples too.....deb

[jigwig]

I feel that in general the older people get, the more they care about themselves and their immediate family than anyone else.

So whilst your daughter and her friends may seem to be more caring, once they get their own family around them, others do not matter so much.

Most people are all for the rights of the disadvantaged, the weak and the vulnerable when young, but by the time they age they are more worried about what they and their family are getting out of life than anything else and the weak and the poor are then looked upon as "scroungers" and "losers"...

 

No doubt as we evolve our perspective changes. I certainly was out to save the world in my youth. I do believe I've become more jaded. I live in a city with six million people. It's hot. Humid. People are angry for many reasons. Yet occasionally, rarely, I see something that blows my mind and reminds me that we live in a civilized society. That the haves to give back to the have nots.

[jigwig]

What career do you have?

 

Lots and lots of Criminals. 2nd largest criminal court in nation.

[todreaminblue]

i believe that virtues are important to teach in the home and any church it is what will bring communities together and any religion that teaches virtue either small or mega churches adds value to the community...always .sorry tried to add that to original post........deb

[jigwig]

Wait! I just remembered this article. Some excellent historical quotes from fuddy duddies complaining about young people's behaviour and declining morals

 

15 Historical Complaints About Young People Ruining Everything | Mental Floss

 

Now you are making me belly laugh. The loss I feel is not from the doom our youth will bring. I see my son sacrifice and serve his country. I see my teenage daughter show compassion for a suffering animal. But at an earlier age the are exposed to so much violence and hate I see so many of the younger kids feeling like it's hopeless. Overwhelming. And some even pointless to embrace what they value most. It's sad.

Edited August 24, 2017 by jigwig

[jigwig]

i believe that virtues are important to teach in the home and any church it is what will bring communities together and any religion that teaches virtue either small or mega churches adds value to the community...always .sorry tried to add that to original post........deb

 

Beautiful. Keep being you.

[basil67]

Now you are making me belly laugh. The loss I feel is not from the doom our youth will bring. I see my son sacrifice and serve his country. I see my teenage daughter show compassion for a suffering animal. But at an earlier age the are exposed to so much violence and hate I see so many of the younger kids feeling like it's hopeless. Overwhelming. And some even pointless to embrace what they value most. It's sad.

 

Yes, our kids are exposed to suffering and violence. But I think it's important to make sure that they know how to stop and look at all the good in the world too.

 

In any terrible situation, look for those who go out of their way to help others. Most of the time, you will see them.

[preraph]

I feel that in general the older people get, the more they care about themselves and their immediate family than anyone else.

So whilst your daughter and her friends may seem to be more caring, once they get their own family around them, others do not matter so much.

Most people are all for the rights of the disadvantaged, the weak and the vulnerable when young, but by the time they age they are more worried about what they and their family are getting out of life than anything else and the weak and the poor are then looked upon as "scroungers" and "losers"...

 

^ Because by then they know what it takes to pick themselves up and it's not feeling sorry for themselves.

[preraph]

Lots and lots of Criminals. 2nd largest criminal court in nation.

 

Yes, it can get to you. I see some court stuff, fed stuff mostly these days, but I honestly think the worst is still child custody battles for making you lose faith in humanity. I'm really asking for it, though, because aside from my work, my hobby is crime and I have been interested in sick minds since I was like in 8th grade and 64 now, so I've just immersed myself in it. But I am usually able to just naturally balance it out. My pets are my daily joy and just my yard and having a nice meal. Simple things.

 

When I take a stance on issues, like what's going on right now, I'm often at odds with my more idealistic friends because I know crime stats and come at if from the dry angle of who is actually committing what type of crimes and who is mostly obnoxious bluster. I find it frustrating when my closest friends can't conceive of something like sex trafficking happening to their daughter, that type of thing, because I see the details, see how all-pervasive it is. I see how the photo of the escort on a website or publication ties back to actual victims. I blanch whenever my friend used to tell me she only leaves her kid with people who live inside the gated apartment community, because I see the suits on how lax landlords are and how that's no protection at all. It usually is someone you know, someone you trust.

 

I do get depressed sometimes. It's important to keep doing what you love aside from the dark stuff. You should see my twitter. It's 5 parts retweeting crime stories, yucking it up with police because I now make a conscious effort to support them, and ranting about the un-PC stuff the news glosses over. And then the other 50 percent is animal and pet photos and just happy stuff. Because animals really are the good guys. But a few people are too. they're just not as pure.

[jigwig]

Yes, it can get to you. I see some court stuff, fed stuff mostly these days, but I honestly think the worst is still child custody battles for making you lose faith in humanity. I'm really asking for it, though, because aside from my work, my hobby is crime and I have been interested in sick minds since I was like in 8th grade and 64 now, so I've just immersed myself in it. But I am usually able to just naturally balance it out. My pets are my daily joy and just my yard and having a nice meal. Simple things.

 

When I take a stance on issues, like what's going on right now, I'm often at odds with my more idealistic friends because I know crime stats and come at if from the dry angle of who is actually committing what type of crimes and who is mostly obnoxious bluster. I find it frustrating when my closest friends can't conceive of something like sex trafficking happening to their daughter, that type of thing, because I see the details, see how all-pervasive it is. I see how the photo of the escort on a website or publication ties back to actual victims. I blanch whenever my friend used to tell me she only leaves her kid with people who live inside the gated apartment community, because I see the suits on how lax landlords are and how that's no protection at all. It usually is someone you know, someone you trust.

 

I do get depressed sometimes. It's important to keep doing what you love aside from the dark stuff. You should see my twitter. It's 5 parts retweeting crime stories, yucking it up with police because I now make a conscious effort to support them, and ranting about the un-PC stuff the news glosses over. And then the other 50 percent is animal and pet photos and just happy stuff. Because animals really are the good guys. But a few people are too. they're just not as pure.

 

Thank you for your words. I think you get at my need. Balance. Yes the kid cases are horrifying. And i really relate to your sentimate about your animals. I do find comfort in them because the comfort without condition. I think when I started this thread I was feeling disheartened by it all. I see crimes where parents are encouraging their children to kick people to death and the children do as they are told because it's their only sense of normal.

[preraph]

Thank you for your words. I think you get at my need. Balance. Yes the kid cases are horrifying. And i really relate to your sentimate about your animals. I do find comfort in them because the comfort without condition. I think when I started this thread I was feeling disheartened by it all. I see crimes where parents are encouraging their children to kick people to death and the children do as they are told because it's their only sense of normal.

 

What some parents are teaching children these days is very disturbing. They want change, but they are at least a big portion of the problem because the perpetuate the hate to their kids.

 

Of course, I'm in Dallas where we had officers killed last year, but I just make a point of looking for the good side, the cops who take some kids to school who missed their bus or buy an elderly person a window AC out of their own pocket and install it. The news mainly seems to sensationalize bad news, and you have to kind of look for good news, but it's out there in our communities every day. When push comes to shove and someone is in trouble, usually everyone will come together. There was a heartening news article a few months ago when someone was trapped on their car in a flood and a group of passerbys, people, of literally every type, made a human chain and saved him. I retweeted a video today of a group of random people in Brazil who dug a trench in the sand and water to save a humongous but baby whale, and it was so great because once free, he really slapped his tail on the water and took off and the people were all splashing the water in joy. You have to not just watch the news but look for the happier stuff to balance out your day-to-day depressing stuff.

 

I remember back probably 10 years ago a rape trial. You end up knowing things that the media can't publish. The thing that stuck with me from that one was he raped her behind a dumpster, and while he was raping her, he got his porn magazine out and was looking at IT instead of her. And the worst of it was, the officer who testified said this was extremely common in rapes, that the guy would be watching porn while he did it. I was so shocked by that and have never forgotten it.

Edited August 26, 2017 by preraph

[elaine567]

I remember back probably 10 years ago a rape trial. You end up knowing things that the media can't publish. The thing that stuck with me from that one was he raped her behind a dumpster, and while he was raping her, he got his porn magazine out and was looking at IT instead of her. And the worst of it was, the officer who testified said this was extremely common in rapes, that the guy would be watching porn while he did it. I was so shocked by that and have never forgotten it.

 

So was he using the porn to turn himself on enough to rape her, or was it perverted stuff and he was using it as some sort of a manual? or a bit of both.

I despair.

 

We seem so technologically advanced and culturally sophisticated and we live in a "golden" world in the West, but the reality of life for many still seems to be touched by barbarism and violence.

Humans are a blood thirsty lot and so that trait is never far from the surface.