darkmoon Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 marriage is both a legal document and a romantic act moving in together just does not have those two factors who cares? who agrees? who is hoping that her best behaviour as a housekeeper will convince her live-in boyfriend to propose? Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I'm female. Where I live, my 25 year defacto marriage does indeed have legal recognition, so your assertions on legality are false for me. And I care not for romantic fluff. If I lived somewhere where there was no legal recognition of our union, I may have married for the sake of practicality. But as it is, I can't see a reason to bother with all the fuss. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Blanco Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I would never get married without living with that person first. Living with someone is an eye-opening experience about that person regardless of how well you think you know them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
shellybing Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 marriage is both a legal document and a romantic act moving in together just does not have those two factors who cares? who agrees? who is hoping that her best behaviour as a housekeeper will convince her live-in boyfriend to propose? If that is all you ever want to be then go for it :laugh: I'd rather have love and companionship. Whether we live together or not. Whether we marry or not. Marriage, words, all status symbols that means not a god damned thing without love and companionship. So if you want to be a glorified housekeeper, have at it. That is your prerogative. Not mine that is for damned sure. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Chilli Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 marriage is both a legal document and a romantic act who is hoping that her best behaviour as a housekeeper will convince her live-in boyfriend to propose? Yeah sorry but l dunno where you got this idea from. People can hire someone to do all that at about 1% of the cost of marrying someone in the long run. l feel sorry for you if you think thats all marriage is. But on the living together, l guess back in our parents /grandparents day , they probably didn't live together, people couldn't do that these days though yet we have the highest divorce rate of all time. The good old l deserve better throw away society. But l'd still live together first. l go with shelly on the rest. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
shellybing Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 You would think that people would be more open minded these days. . . It is sad how many will do this. I did it ALL when I was married the first time, I am just as lonely now as I ever was married. For sure. I can keep my own house and if I choose not to be perfect about it, I don't have to hear a word otherwise. If I ever marry again, it will be to someone who loves me when I am being good, and someone who loves me when I am not. Someone who cares when I don't look and feel my best, and someone who loves me when I dont. I also agree that hiring someone costs less than a wedding, a divorce, sharing unequal expenses and incomes etc. If you want to clean houses, open a maid business. Don't get married for that. yikes. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 But on the living together, l guess back in our parents /grandparents day , they probably didn't live together, people couldn't do that these days though yet we have the highest divorce rate of all time. The good old l deserve better throw away society. But l'd still live together first. It's important to remember the reasons that we do have high divorce rates. And remember that there were many loveless and even miserable marriages back in the old days. The reason divorces didn't happen was because a) it wasn't socially acceptable. b) women couldn't support themselves c) no government support for single parents. d) lack of 'no fault' divorce laws. So women were stuck with men who may have been drunk or abusive and unable to leave. Meanwhile, a man with a shrew of a wife could be charged with abandonment if he left her. These days, people aren't stuck with awful partners. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Eternal Sunshine Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Marriage is an artificial social construct that's a total waste of time and money for everyone involved. I would love to meet somenone I will be happy with but I don't care at all about being married. Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) marriage should be respected for what it is...it is a union between two people who want to stand or kneel depending on the ceremony ...to stand before god and those that love them and say this person is now part of me.....and i am part of them....let no man tear us apart......and then it becomes a lifetime work and commitment...i respect marriage never been married but i hold marriage to be a wonderful and beautiful act of commitment to gods laws and the person you join with...i am not saying marriage is all roses either..but it is beautiful.its fine for people who dont believe in marriage to not believe in it.........thats a choice...still doesnt mean marriage should not be respected by those people who dont follow it..... for the people that do believe in it....not all marriages need or do end in divorce and as a statistical tragedy..deb Edited August 28, 2017 by todreaminblue 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Where do you get all these strange assumptions from? Some facts for you: 1. Living together is a legally-recognized relationship status in some countries. 2. The woman isn't always the "housekeeper". In cases where she is, there is often a role distribution that benefits her as well. 3. It's 2017. Some women don't want to marry. Some might, but they themselves require a man to have lived with them before they will consider marrying him. Personally I would never marry someone if I hadn't lived with him for a good amount of time first. The risks are just too great IMO. When I marry someone, I want that marriage to stand a good chance of being a happy and healthy union for life. Living together shows you a lot of things about a person's personality that might otherwise not have showed up. Note that simply "getting married" or even "not divorcing" is not the goal here. Anyone can get married if that's all they really want. Other people have their own preferences re: living together, which is their prerogative, but it does somewhat amuse me that you are passing judgement on two relationship states despite never having been in either one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BluEyeL Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I lived with my husband before getting married, but after getting engaged. Our engagement was 1.5 years. Being married feels different than living together. Better. I'm happier being married. I'm happy and proud to call him "my husband" rather than "his name". To me, marriage means something, we both take risks being married and we choose to do it, which signifies our deep commitment and love for each other. I would not move in with someone I'm not engaged to. Engagements ca be broken if we don't like living together, but being engaged with a wedding date set puts both partners intention to commit out there firmly. We had a date set and deposit put on a venue. So it went great! If you are a woman who wants to get married, yeah, don't move in with someone who is wishy washy about marrying you. If you don't want to get married, it's fine to live together as long as you want as long as you're happy. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Redhead14 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 marriage is both a legal document and a romantic act moving in together just does not have those two factors who cares? who agrees? who is hoping that her best behaviour as a housekeeper will convince her live-in boyfriend to propose? Living together before marriage isn't about a woman "auditioning" for the position of wife. It's about evaluating that both parties are compatible in as many elements of a possible marital union as possible. It's about discovering their "behind the scenes" habits - financial attitudes/acuity, problem/conflict resolution skills, whether they have similar household skills, how they interact on a daily basis, ability/willingness to compromise, etc. How well they mesh overall. There are many things a couple doesn't observe about a partner when they are still living separately. Tons of things come to light after they are living together. You don't really know a person until you live with them! Even if you've been with them for years. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
No_Go Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 marriage is both a legal document and a romantic act moving in together just does not have those two factors who cares? who agrees? who is hoping that her best behaviour as a housekeeper will convince her live-in boyfriend to propose? I know why I did't engage my live-ins haha. Actually this was the best perk of living together - my bfs will do the cleaning, grocery shopping, cooking and home maintenance for me. Otherwise I think marriage is much more than living together. It is a legal status vs convenient living arrangement (excluding places where living together is a legal status - then the above is irrelevant). 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Gaeta Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Where I live couples living together are legally bound and recognized as legally bound by government after 2 years. The dynamic of your relationship is not dictated by a marriage contract. If he doesn't help before marriage he won't help after either. It's important to live together before marriage, it's only then you will know the person you're about to marry. I dated my ex-h for 3 years before we married, we didn't live together. After we married and moved in together only then I realized the man he was. It was not what I had dream about. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
knabe Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I'm not going to state my opinion about marriage as fact because that is both arrogant and ignorant. I believe in marriage, but I am currently living with my fiance. I wouldn't say you have to live with someone before marriage, but I sure as heck would spend PLENTY of day to day time with them. In my first marriage, our relationship was basically long distance UNTIL marriage. That was a BIG mistake. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I'm happy and proud to call him "my husband" rather than "his name". I call my defacto partner "my husband". And he refers to me as his wife. Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 marriage should be respected for what it is...it is a union between two people who want to stand or kneel depending on the ceremony ...to stand before god and those that love them and say this person is now part of me.....and i am part of them....let no man tear us apart......and then it becomes a lifetime work and commitment...i respect marriage never been married but i hold marriage to be a wonderful and beautiful act of commitment to gods laws and the person you join with...i am not saying marriage is all roses either..but it is beautiful.its fine for people who dont believe in marriage to not believe in it.........thats a choice...still doesnt mean marriage should not be respected by those people who dont follow it..... for the people that do believe in it....not all marriages need or do end in divorce and as a statistical tragedy..deb I think it's problematic to use the word "should" when it comes to people's thoughts or feelings about anything. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
knabe Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I think it's problematic to use the word "should" when it comes to people's thoughts or feelings about anything. Kind of like dismissing it and summarily calling it an antiquated social construct. It's so weird, this practice of stating opinion as fact. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I think it's problematic to use the word "should" when it comes to people's thoughts or feelings about anything. should implies that it isnt respected in society today, that marriage is not held to hold as much importance or importance in the constructs of communities.... as it was in past eras..considered unnecessary and antiquated often..and i stand by that should be respected as having great worth to communities and societies in general......it is meant....and for people living together...outside of marriage.....i show no disrespect.....or WOULD i...i stand by that word too........deb Link to post Share on other sites
shellybing Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I do not understand the "defacto" practice of calling people "Husband" or "wife" when they are not actually married. I am not calling anyone my "husband" unless they are actually my "husband" I mean, if you want to be married, then you actually have to get married? Right? 4 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I do not understand the "defacto" practice of calling people "Husband" or "wife" when they are not actually married. I am not calling anyone my "husband" unless they are actually my "husband" I mean, if you want to be married, then you actually have to get married? Right? And it's your prerogative to choose this. I don't want to get married, but nor will I bother using lengthy descriptions of our defacto relationship when "husband" or "wife" gets the message across quite clearly. My descriptors aren't hurting anyone, so why would I care? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BluEyeL Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I do not understand the "defacto" practice of calling people "Husband" or "wife" when they are not actually married. I am not calling anyone my "husband" unless they are actually my "husband" I mean, if you want to be married, then you actually have to get married? Right? Yeah I couldn't call my fiancé husband until he really was my husband. He didn't call me his wife either. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) I do not understand the "defacto" practice of calling people "Husband" or "wife" when they are not actually married. I am not calling anyone my "husband" unless they are actually my "husband" I mean, if you want to be married, then you actually have to get married? Right? It's a cultural thing that probably partly depends on the laws of the country that someone is living in. In general people who live in the US and Asia do tend to view marriage as the "ultimate goal" of a relationship and the end all be all of one. This is understandable given that in those countries unmarried couples have no legal standing regardless of whether they live together or no. In basil's country and a few others, de facto relationships have the same legal standing as marriages. So people tend to view marriage in a more personal way, instead of as a legal contract. You are free to decide what it means to you, whether nothing at all or something huge. Some people view it as just a wedding and a party. Some view it as more than that. There is no fixed standard or requirement. Some de facto couples consider themselves the equivalent of a marriage without the wedding and party, and some do call themselves husband or wife. I personally wouldn't do that, but I respect their prerogative to do so, and I refer to them however they want to be referred as. An interesting side note - in a neighboring country, de factos technically get more rights than married couples. The requirement for being recognized as a partner in immigration terms is living together for a set period of time. Married couples who have not lived together for that period of time cannot be granted immigration rights until that period of time has passed, and couples who have been living together but are not married can be. I think the reason is to discourage "marriages of convenience" for immigration reasons. I think people often make the mistake of assuming that all countries or cultures perceive things a certain way. Edited August 28, 2017 by Elswyth 4 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Elswyth pretty much sums it up. Chalk it up to cultural differences I guess. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 I am pro-marriage. I'd never live with a man otherwise. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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