'Marrying up' (dating up) is now easier for men...

[somanymistakes]

All women start out seeking superior men. But you are only young and pretty for so long. Eventually women get a reality check and have to make a decision.

 

That's why a lot of women end up with broke men. That's all that's available to them.

 

All statements that start out with "all women" are false

[CptInsano]

All women start out seeking superior men. But you are only young and pretty for so long. Eventually women get a reality check and have to make a decision. [...]

 

You are assuming that a romantic relationship has top priority for these women, when in fact for many it does not. It is more important that the man enables them to have careers and kids. It's not unusual that these guys stay home for a year or two after the first kid is born. I've seen it a number of times.

 

The deal is not about being young and pretty, its not about a Cinderella stor,y, but rather about attaining very concrete goals. I once had a CFO of a publicly traded company tell me that I she would consider me ideal as her 2nd husband. She gave somewhat of a financial disclosure, and wrote her address and phone number on the back of her business card. She was rather sweet and affectionate, but it felt very much like the proposed business deal it really was.

 

Certain MBA programs flat out tell their students, women in particular, that romantic relatonships are a career killer and should be avoided.

[The Urbanyst]

All statements that start out with "all women" are false

 

All statements that start with "all statements" are false.

[The Urbanyst]

You are assuming that a romantic relationship has top priority for these women, when in fact for many it does not. It is more important that the man enables them to have careers and kids. It's not unusual that these guys stay home for a year or two after the first kid is born. I've seen it a number of times.

 

The deal is not about being young and pretty, its not about a Cinderella stor,y, but rather about attaining very concrete goals. I once had a CFO of a publicly traded company tell me that I she would consider me ideal as her 2nd husband. She gave somewhat of a financial disclosure, and wrote her address and phone number on the back of her business card. She was rather sweet and affectionate, but it felt very much like the proposed business deal it really was.

 

Certain MBA programs flat out tell their students, women in particular, that romantic relatonships are a career killer and should be avoided.

 

Its true. Romantic relationships are a career killer. Careers are also a romantic relationship killer.

 

I once read an article that suggested women only focus hard on their careers because they don't believe they are attractive enough to fine a husband that makes good money.

[somanymistakes]

Its true. Romantic relationships are a career killer. Careers are also a romantic relationship killer.

 

I once read an article that suggested women only focus hard on their careers because they don't believe they are attractive enough to fine a husband that makes good money.

 

Hopefully you then recognised the paper/magazine was utter BS, threw it away, and never read it again. Right?

 

Some women are not interested in men, ever. (Hello, lesbians exist)

Some women don't want to be in a romantic relationship, ever. (Hello, asexuals, etc, exist)

Some women don't want to be married, ever. (Especially those who believe it to be a Tool Of The Patriarchy, or a sign of religious control, and so on.)

Many women are interested in a career for its own sake, because they want to Achieve, because they want to take care of themselves, or because they actually enjoy what they're doing.

 

Even if you've never spoken to a woman in your life it should be readily apparent that 'women only get careers because they are afraid they're not pretty enough' is not just nonsense, but nonsense so out of touch with reality that it should make you question the motives of anyone trying to feed it to you. What are they hoping to accomplish by trying to make it seem as if women are all nothing but mindless husband-hunters? What do they gain from this?

[The Urbanyst]

Hopefully you then recognised the paper/magazine was utter BS, threw it away, and never read it again. Right?

 

Some women are not interested in men, ever. (Hello, lesbians exist)

Some women don't want to be in a romantic relationship, ever. (Hello, asexuals, etc, exist)

Some women don't want to be married, ever. (Especially those who believe it to be a Tool Of The Patriarchy, or a sign of religious control, and so on.)

Many women are interested in a career for its own sake, because they want to Achieve, because they want to take care of themselves, or because they actually enjoy what they're doing.

 

Even if you've never spoken to a woman in your life it should be readily apparent that 'women only get careers because they are afraid they're not pretty enough' is not just nonsense, but nonsense so out of touch with reality that it should make you question the motives of anyone trying to feed it to you. What are they hoping to accomplish by trying to make it seem as if women are all nothing but mindless husband-hunters? What do they gain from this?

 

Splitting hairs aren't we?

 

Dogs generally wag their tails because they are happy. Are there exceptions? Sure. Pointing out exceptions in arguments is splitting hairs and missing the point.

 

The truth is not always flattering. Welcome to reality.

[No_Go]

Its true. Romantic relationships are a career killer. Careers are also a romantic relationship killer.

 

I once read an article that suggested women only focus hard on their careers because they don't believe they are attractive enough to fine a husband that makes good money.

 

Romantic relationships are a career killer - NO, exactly the opposite: if I'm in a relationship I can focus on my career MUCH better than when dating around.

 

Careers are also a romantic relationship killer - The opposite, it is VERY difficult to have a relationship if you don't have a career because you cling on it for dear life, and frankly, lack of ambition makes you unattractive.

 

women only focus hard on their careers because they don't believe they are attractive enough to fine a husband that makes good money - :lmao::lmao::lmao: May I see the authors of this 'study'? You know, I started thinking of my career path way waaaaay before being introduced to the concept of dating/marriage. So the uncomfortable truth is: women with best careers also are most attractive and have the best relationships. You can check a few female billionaires if you don't believe me. People just want to convince themselves we're all equal and capable in something. Reality is: some people are just good in everything and it sucks for the rest :lmao::lmao::lmao:

[JuneJulySeptember]

Its true. Romantic relationships are a career killer. Careers are also a romantic relationship killer.

 

I once read an article that suggested women only focus hard on their careers because they don't believe they are attractive enough to fine a husband that makes good money.

 

Women who make a lot of $ are actually at a disadvantage.

 

A lot of guys feel emasculated by a woman who makes a lot more.

 

I personally don't want to marry a woman who makes a lot more than me, and it has nothing to do with emasculation. I don't want to feel like that other person's salary is driving our lifestyle. If I married a woman who made 200K a year and we lived in a 300K house, then I'd be OK with that.

 

OTOH, most women probably have no problem with a guy who makes a lot more.

[Larryville]

Careers are also a romantic relationship killer - The opposite, it is VERY difficult to have a relationship if you don't have a career because you cling on it for dear life, and frankly, lack of ambition makes you unattractive.

 

Absolutely killed my first marriage, one of the positive things about OLD, if I had met wife #1 on an OLD site there is no way I would have ever dated much less married her, clear lack of ambition and drive…

 

This is a portion from this article: “The media assault on 'alpha females' is just a way of putting women back in the kitchen” UK Telegraph

 

“Despite all this, women in the West have continued to make professional, educative and sexual gains. They’re marrying or living with men who take an increasing share in the shopping, cooking and childcare. Equal opportunity policies and quotas have helped push more of them to the very top of corporations and government.’

[normal person]

Women who make a lot of $ are actually at a disadvantage.

 

A lot of guys feel emasculated by a woman who makes a lot more.

 

Saying "disadvantage" is sort of subjective though, and I'm not sure that's accurate. Women who make a lot of money probably don't want a man who makes less than them anyways. You're assuming that a woman who makes a lot would naturally be happier marrying a man who made less than her currently if he just so wasn't emasculated and insecure about it. However, if she has the natural drive, ambition, and ability to command a job commensurate to her skills and is paid well for it, she's likely not going to settle for someone rungs lower than her on the totem pole whose salary reflects a lack of those traits. People inherently want to marry the best partner and usually through checks and balances (not a pun) end up with someone roughly equal to them. The reason they don't look beneath them isn't entirely emasculation, it's basic matching hypothesis -- goals, intelligence, lifestyle choices, salary, etc. Emasculation seems like a byproduct of the difference of those things between the two.

 

It's not a disadvantage if she doesn't want the guy to begin with. If she's in a league above, he's invisible to her. She's looking at guys who make more than her, and that's what she actually wants. If anything, that sounds like a disadvantage to those men who can't keep up rather than the way you describe it.

[Bastile]

It's a difficult and nuanced subject...

 

I've had a fair few "independent woman" type girlfriends. I vibe well with these women for many reasons.

 

Firstly, I had a woman try to trap me with a pregnancy when I was younger, that screwed me up a lot. I preferred women that weren't into children/more career orientated for a while after that. It made me feel more comfortable and allowed me to trust better.

 

Secondly, I don't want to take on a dependent or a mooch. The dynamic that I've always liked is for a woman to have a good life, and for me to add value to her life making her happy.

 

I haven't had a problem with well-off women not wanting to marry me.... quite the opposite

 

Guys using money to attract women are using dollar bills as a fig-leaf for their manhood.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Bastile

[Springsummer]

Romantic relationships are a career killer - NO, exactly the opposite: if I'm in a relationship I can focus on my career MUCH better than when dating around.

 

Careers are also a romantic relationship killer - The opposite, it is VERY difficult to have a relationship if you don't have a career because you cling on it for dear life, and frankly, lack of ambition makes you unattractive.

 

women only focus hard on their careers because they don't believe they are attractive enough to fine a husband that makes good money - :lmao::lmao::lmao: May I see the authors of this 'study'? You know, I started thinking of my career path way waaaaay before being introduced to the concept of dating/marriage. So the uncomfortable truth is: women with best careers also are most attractive and have the best relationships. You can check a few female billionaires if you don't believe me. People just want to convince themselves we're all equal and capable in something. Reality is: some people are just good in everything and it sucks for the rest :lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

 

TOTALLY agreed.

 

I feel I can focus more on my career if I don't have to worry about looking for someone.

 

I thought I was a pretty girl in the classes...you know the most handsome boy in the class like me. don't know why I ended up the most perpetually single one.

 

I guess I am just mentally out of this world.

[Springsummer]

Hopefully you then recognised the paper/magazine was utter BS, threw it away, and never read it again. Right?

 

Some women are not interested in men, ever. (Hello, lesbians exist)

Some women don't want to be in a romantic relationship, ever. (Hello, asexuals, etc, exist)

Some women don't want to be married, ever. (Especially those who believe it to be a Tool Of The Patriarchy, or a sign of religious control, and so on.)

Many women are interested in a career for its own sake, because they want to Achieve, because they want to take care of themselves, or because they actually enjoy what they're doing.

 

and

some women just find it hard to find a man that's attractive enough.

[No_Go]

You just have different priorities. I learned little, ahem, future wives attend prestigious universities to snatch a husband from the elite, not a degree.

 

I'm thinking when I was studying I didn't even joke about going on a date, my world was dominated with thoughts about how to get the most out of my studies. But the career-wiveys were already up and alert at 18-22 :lmao:

 

Maybe the same happened to you without realizing it.

 

 

I thought I was a pretty girl in the classes...you know the most handsome boy in the class like me. don't know why I ended up the most perpetually single one.

[The Urbanyst]

Romantic relationships are a career killer - NO, exactly the opposite: if I'm in a relationship I can focus on my career MUCH better than when dating around.

 

Careers are also a romantic relationship killer - The opposite, it is VERY difficult to have a relationship if you don't have a career because you cling on it for dear life, and frankly, lack of ambition makes you unattractive.

 

women only focus hard on their careers because they don't believe they are attractive enough to fine a husband that makes good money - :lmao::lmao::lmao: May I see the authors of this 'study'? You know, I started thinking of my career path way waaaaay before being introduced to the concept of dating/marriage. So the uncomfortable truth is: women with best careers also are most attractive and have the best relationships. You can check a few female billionaires if you don't believe me. People just want to convince themselves we're all equal and capable in something. Reality is: some people are just good in everything and it sucks for the rest :lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

You are one person.

 

And men decide what makes a woman attractive. Not women.

[The Urbanyst]

and

some women just find it hard to find a man that's attractive enough.

 

That's usually because they over-estimate their own attractiveness.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I am a like-attracts-like person, and I would be at my absolute happiest with another academic. They never seemed to be into me though. I am somewhat shy so am not good at initiating. But yeah, that's my dream. I am not really attracted to men with business type of careers where their only passion is to make as much money as possible. I prefer ambitious men that are driven by passion for their work rather than the material benefits.

 

And yeah, I can't possibly marry up in term of education. My lower limit is a university degree though.

[Cookiesandough]

Saying "disadvantage" is sort of subjective though, and I'm not sure that's accurate. Women who make a lot of money probably don't want a man who makes less than them anyways. You're assuming that a woman who makes a lot would naturally be happier marrying a man who made less than her currently if he just so wasn't emasculated and insecure about it. However, if she has the natural drive, ambition, and ability to command a job commensurate to her skills and is paid well for it, she's likely not going to settle for someone rungs lower than her on the totem pole whose salary reflects a lack of those traits. People inherently want to marry the best partner and usually through checks and balances (not a pun) end up with someone roughly equal to them. The reason they don't look beneath them isn't entirely emasculation, it's basic matching hypothesis -- goals, intelligence, lifestyle choices, salary, etc. Emasculation seems like a byproduct of the difference of those things between the two.

 

It's not a disadvantage if she doesn't want the guy to begin with. If she's in a league above, he's invisible to her. She's looking at guys who make more than her, and that's what she actually wants. If anything, that sounds like a disadvantage to those men who can't keep up rather than the way you describe it.

 

Subjective, indeed. I'll use Taylor Swift as example because I am madly in love with her. She is the alpha female of all time, with legs for days. She doesn't have the best luck with men.

 

Since she is so successful she has a lot fewer men(that she wants) to choose from. Men more successful than her are few and have their pick of women. And that's just assuming she only puts value on financial success, which is unlikely for a woman, especially one more than financially secure on her own. She'll probably end up with someone successful too in a different area through connections, but I can see she might 'date down' a little. No way she's dating Joe Blow, but a little.

Edited September 2, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[Arieswoman]

IMO the reason more men "date up" is because there are just more well-educated women about ( well in UK anyway).

 

In the 50's it was expected that women would give up their career once they married. So many Unis just wouldn't admit women because they didn't want to spend time educating them if they were not going to use their qualifications. (This was before the Sex-discrimination Laws were passed)

 

Then in the 60's the Pill came and Women's Lib reared it's head. Educational opportunities starting changing for women.

 

In 1975 the Sex Discrimination Act was passed in UK and the rush of females to Uni and HE started. Having had the advantage of a good education these late 70's/early 80's women encouraged their own children to explore their academic potential.

 

Hence we now have more females than every that have experienced tertiary education and this has impacted on the dating scene.

[Eternal Sunshine]

That's usually because they over-estimate their own attractiveness.

 

Actually many studies have shown that men tend to overestimate their own attractiveness way more than women do.

[The Urbanyst]

Actually many studies have shown that men tend to overestimate their own attractiveness way more than women do.

 

This is not a gender war.

 

My point is women who cannot find a man who is attractive enough for them usually over-estimate their own attractiveness. Do you have a response to that?

[normal person]

Since she is so successful she has a lot fewer men(that she wants) to choose from. Men more successful than her are few and have their pick of women. And that's just assuming she only puts value on financial success, which is unlikely for a woman, especially one more than financially secure on her own. She'll probably end up with someone successful too in a different area through connections, but I can see she might 'date down' a little. No way she's dating Joe Blow, but a little.

 

True, but she's in a unique spot because there are basically no men on Earth in her age range that make more money than her. Zuckerberg and Evan Speigel are married. The only (young) male act that earned more than her in 2016 was One Direction (who split the money 5 ways, so not really), and she already dated one of those guys. Even the highest paid actors only have a fraction of her money. So unless she wants to date Garth Brooks, she'll have to date down. She has little to no other options to go "up," outside of royalty/aristocracy. I could've sworn I heard that she's already dated a Kennedy. Plus, she's pretty damn tall so she's gotta find a guy in her income bracket who just happens to be good looking and 6'+. I honestly wonder if the thought that she'll never have a man more successful than her will bother her or leave her unsatisfied. Everyone's problem's are subjective.

 

Back on topic, I think the "average" successful woman has a different set of options, though not without challenges -- very successful men who make more than them will typically prioritize a woman's beauty over her earning power. They can afford to. That's probably why you often see young women with old, rich men, but basically never old women with young, attractive, men.

 

So women have the short end of the stick here; they're limited on two fronts. They can't force themselves to like men who are less successful than they are, but they still have to compete with less successful (yet still attractive) women for the higher earning men who don't care about their money. There's probably a sweet spot though, a man probably can't have just anybody unless he makes $X, and a woman can't have just any man unless she's flawless in most senses of the word. Sad, but that's often how it is.

 

 

Subjective, indeed. I'll use Taylor Swift as example because I am madly in love with her. She is the alpha female of all time, with legs for days.

 

Off topic but I wouldn't call her a "natural" alpha female, she's just defaulted into that role by way of circumstance (she's talented, beautiful, rich, has everyone's attention) and not at all by personality traits (she's deferent, non-confrontational, passive aggressive, emotional, puts up with tons of BS (see: Kanye / VMAs)). Though I'm sure being at the top of the heap has probably changed her attitude in recent years. I think women like Barbara Corcoran or Rachel McAdams' character in Mean Girls are "real" alpha females -- they don't accept less than what they want and are willing to go to war for it. Tay is much more of an obliger.

[Springsummer]

You just have different priorities. I learned little, ahem, future wives attend prestigious universities to snatch a husband from the elite, not a degree.

 

I'm thinking when I was studying I didn't even joke about going on a date, my world was dominated with thoughts about how to get the most out of my studies. But the career-wiveys were already up and alert at 18-22 :lmao:

 

Maybe the same happened to you without realizing it.

 

Maybe they are the smart ones after all. Is career or family more important to a person's well-being? University indeed seems to be the best place to find a partner.

 

I studied this and that in University, but I don't get to use the majority of them in working life.

 

The CEO of my organization only has a bachelor in business. and his predecessor is the head of finanical system in my country.

 

One colleague often like to say how smart I am. but deep down I know how dumb I am, at least in life science. but on a second thought, that maybe just the way I am. I am born this way. That's what destiny is.