***update*** We met and talked

[weeble78]

Past thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/632734-friends-not-friends

 

So an update….

 

I met up with my ex whatever he was a couple days ago. It’s the first time I’ve seen him in months, but after me texting him every now and again and then him starting to message me we’ve been in touch recently.

 

We had an awesome day. Went to a coffee shop, one of the first things he said was he hasn’t dated anyone else and isn’t in the right place for dating. Felt like he was setting the bar and didn’t ask if I was dating. I said I had been anyway but he changed the subject. So anyway. We had an amazing day and didn’t talk about it. He was a little touchy feely. Sexual tension was palpable but we just chatted. We went to his studio and he spent a couple hours showing me what he’s been working on which was awesome. Then when it was nearly time for me to leave, the tension got epic and we were talking nonsense, but neither of us made a move. We said goodbye and he asked me not to leave it so long next time and text when I got back.

 

I got back home, messaged him saying I’d had the best day and didn’t want to leave. He agreed and thanked me for coming down.

 

Next morning I messaged him and asked if he wanted to go to the beach but he said he was busy and asked why. I said it was because I wanted to see him again before I left. He said he felt conflicted and bad so I laughed it off then asked if there would be a time when our jokes would stop or would we always just be friends. He said he was going for coffee then didn't reply.

 

Later on I phoned my friend who thought I should just be explicit and put it all on the table. So I did. Doh. I’ll try and condense although I find it hard.

 

I said I still felt the same and still want him. Asked if he’s really not ready for dating as dating is just friendship with extra bits and an agreement of loyalty. He said he was unsure, then said friends is a safe bet, he’d only hurt me and he’s better off alone. I told him I went to see if I really felt the way I thought about him and that he’d never hurt me by trying, he explained the last 8 years has really set him back with his work and now he’s got the opportunity to focus on it he needs to shed everything else and go for it with no distractions. He said he values us as we are and us meeting solidified it, that he has to be disciplined as it’s paying off. I said I felt he’s an idiot for not trying but it’s his choice, and asked him to tell me he’s 100% sure then I can be confident walking away. I also asked if he’d entertain the idea of coming down to see me if he really isn’t sure. He finally explained that his ex broke him and his heart and it makes him want to be alone, he never lets people in but that he doesn’t want to shut out my friendship. I said I don’t think I can be friends.

 

My last question to him was if he feels differently about me than I feel about him – as in am I the only one with these strong feelings.

 

He won’t reply to the questions about whether he’s sure or if I’m the only one who feels this way.

 

So what I’m going to have to do is cut him out. I want him in my life but he’ll meet someone who makes him forget his past and I don’t want to be around to see that happen.

 

Do I have to ignore the missing answers and just take it for what it is? We went through this once before and after leaving him for a week he changed his mind. But then changed it back again. And is he just playing me?

 

Thank you for reading and sorry re length - I have tried to condense and am even more verbose in real time!

[Redhead14]

He won’t reply to the questions about whether he’s sure or if I’m the only one who feels this way. -- No reply is a NO. And, even if he does feel the same way, he can't communicate and/or simply doesn't want those feelings.

 

he’d only hurt me and he’s better off alone -- When a guy says this, believe him. He knows himself pretty well.

 

We went through this once before and after leaving him for a week he changed his mind. -- He didn't change his mind. He just had a moment of weakness when he was feeling lonely and horny. Then he remembered that he doesn't want to hurt you and so stopped himself from going further.

[weeble78]

Thank you for your reply. I really fail to understand because if a guy ever asks me this I reply honestly. He has responded to such questions in the past a few days later or if prodded again.

 

I don't know am I on the autism scale or something but I really find it hard to work out peoples' intentions from behaviour. Like if he says he's unsure I totally believe that and give him the choice of trying, or agreeing to knock it on the head. I've been in this situation myself and am always upfront if I think the person just isn't the right one or if I don't have feelings enough for them.

 

This has been a thing for 6 months now, I ask a lot of questions - why would anyone put up with that if they're not interested?

[ItStartsFromWithin]

Past thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/632734-friends-not-friends

 

So an update…. <snip>

 

 

 

 

I read your last thread as well as this one. And in both threads it seems like this man is not looking for anything serious with you. You layed it all down on the table for him, expressed how you felt about him and shared your inner feelings, yet, his response was that he still only wanted a friendship. Him speaking to you about his Ex girlfriend and wanting to be alone and only interested in being "friends" all of this, solidifies that as fact. At least he is being upfront in admitting he only wants a friendship with you, instead of playing around with your heart.

 

"He won’t reply to the questions about whether he’s sure or if I’m the only one who feels this way."

 

He most likely just doesn't want to hurt your feelings.

 

He's been honest in telling you he only wants to be friends with you, so I'd believe him. No, I don't think you should wait around for him to change his mind because he most likely never will. If you don't feel comfortable with just, being his friend, without having romantic feelings for him, than I'd suggest you just leave it be. Go back to no contact.

 

You sound like a sweet, jovial, lovely woman, and I'm sure you won't have any problems in eventually finding someone better suited for you. Plus there are millions of are men out there, that will want what you want; in a romantic relationship. Good luck!

Edited September 1, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Redact full quote

[Redhead14]

why would anyone put up with that if they're not interested? -- They know they can't give the other person what they need, but they don't want to hurt the other person and they at least like them/aren't hard to spend time with. They won't tell you outright but give vague responses or dodge the questions, so they basically allow you to string yourself along until YOU eventually take the required action for yourself. They feel they've given enough veiled answers for you to take the hint. And, if you don't they don't have to feel too guilty or be the bad guy.

 

You've been a little slow on the uptake. Walk away.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Redhead14

[weeble78]

But then every time I take the required action ie not responding to him, he tries to get my attention back and becomes unsure he's doing the right thing?

 

I don't know if it helps but when we first met it was coincidence and in our first messages he said outright he wasn't looking for dating. As time went on and he met he said he'd kick himself if he didn't try. The very first time I put my foot down about him being wishy washy about organising a trip down to see me he did a vanishing act for a week. Then came back very apologetically and said if he ever did it again I was to call him up and harass him as he didn't want to lose me.

 

Don't get me wrong I feel like he's bad news. I've shed a few tears over him already, but have always felt he's special and we should give it a try. He always seems to fall at the last hurdle though.

 

Are these just people I should be staying away from? I don't know how to not get my heart involved in the first place. Basically I feel like I fell for him as it's hurting now he's pulling away again.

[Zahara]

I don't know am I on the autism scale or something but I really find it hard to work out peoples' intentions from behaviour. Like if he says he's unsure I totally believe that and give him the choice of trying, or agreeing to knock it on the head.

 

You focus on actions. You don't focus on words. 99% of the time, actions will tell you all you need to know. He's been pretty clear in his words though and I don't see any uncertainty. Sometimes hope denies us from seeing adn accepting things as they really are.

 

I've been in this situation myself and am always upfront if I think the person just isn't the right one or if I don't have feelings enough for them.

 

Don't project. Not everyone is going to do what you deem is proper. When you project, you create expectations. The latter will sometimes disappoint.

 

This has been a thing for 6 months now, I ask a lot of questions - why would anyone put up with that if they're not interested?

 

You ask a lot of questions when you already have the answers. You need to let go.

 

He probably puts up with it because he feels guilt and feel obligated to answer you. There is going to come a time when this will run its course and he will ignore because he wants to move on with his life.

[weeble78]

Just read the last part of your editing. I can't believe I'm that stupid - really? This has happened to me several times over the years and once it was going on for at least 8 months. Why am I so stupid not to see the same things you see?

[Zahara]

But then every time I take the required action ie not responding to him, he tries to get my attention back and becomes unsure he's doing the right thing?

 

Dumpers go through their own process of detachment. It's not easy for them either and sometimes do a turnaround because they need the attention and ego stroke from the dumpee. It's been familiar to them so it's not easy to fully let go. It doesn't mean that they're unsure. They're sure. They're just going through their own process of moving.

 

Then came back very apologetically and said if he ever did it again I was to call him up and harass him as he didn't want to lose me.

 

Don't get me wrong I feel like he's bad news. I've shed a few tears over him already, but have always felt he's special and we should give it a try. He always seems to fall at the last hurdle though.

 

He's emotionally unavailable. An avoidant. Too close gets them running. To far gets them reaching. You need to let him go.

 

Are these just people I should be staying away from? I don't know how to not get my heart involved in the first place. Basically I feel like I fell for him as it's hurting now he's pulling away again.

 

When you start seeing red flags, you step back. You don't stick around hoping things will work. You take your time to get to know them. Dating is risky. People don't usually show you who they really are until you're in hook, like and sinker but that's the chance you take.

[weeble78]

He must think I'm absolutely stupid. Was he stringing me along right from the beginning? Why get into that in the first place when things like this are pretty black and white.

 

He spent hours messaging me last night, it would be so much easier for him to just say it's never going to happen for us.

 

I'm dyslexic as well, perhaps that doesn't help. Lol.

[Redhead14]

But then every time I take the required action ie not responding to him, he tries to get my attention back and becomes unsure he's doing the right thing?

 

I don't know if it helps but when we first met it was coincidence and in our first messages he said outright he wasn't looking for dating. As time went on and he met he said he'd kick himself if he didn't try. The very first time I put my foot down about him being wishy washy about organising a trip down to see me he did a vanishing act for a week. Then came back very apologetically and said if he ever did it again I was to call him up and harass him as he didn't want to lose me.

 

Don't get me wrong I feel like he's bad news. I've shed a few tears over him already, but have always felt he's special and we should give it a try. He always seems to fall at the last hurdle though.

 

Are these just people I should be staying away from? I don't know how to not get my heart involved in the first place. Basically I feel like I fell for him as it's hurting now he's pulling away again.

 

every time I take the required action ie not responding to him, he tries to get my attention back and becomes unsure he's doing the right thing? -- All you two are both doing is being each other's doormats. You're rowing the same boat. Mirroring him essentially. He's sees himself in you and that scares him while at the same time knowing it doesn't work.

 

Yes, you should stay away from guys who don't know what they want. The want and need the company of a woman but they don't want a real relationship because they know they can't maintain it. They get a little close and that scares themv and then the back off. They do this often.

 

I suspect you are a nurturer/fixer. Don't be that. You don't want to date a project. You want a complete man who knows what he wants and who he is all the time.

[weeble78]

Dumpers go through their own process of detachment. It's not easy for them either and sometimes do a turnaround because they need the attention and ego stroke from the dumpee. It's been familiar to them so it's not easy to fully let go. It doesn't mean that they're unsure. They're sure. They're just going through their own process of moving.

 

Ok that makes sense to me. I'd been avoiding replying to him or cutting him short when he was messaging me as I thought it would be better for myself to stay away. He did hook me back in though.

 

 

 

He's emotionally unavailable. An avoidant. Too close gets them running. To far gets them reaching. You need to let him go.

 

If I let him go, do you think he would come back? Funnily enough this is what I'm like in the beginning of relationships. It's only the guys who keep completely strings free that I can be around myself, although I'm trying to be aware of that and settle down a little more.

 

 

 

When you start seeing red flags, you step back. You don't stick around hoping things will work. You take your time to get to know them. Dating is risky. People don't usually show you who they really are until you're in hook, like and sinker but that's the chance you take.

 

But I think that's why I don't see it as a red flag as I do these things myself. In the beginning of my ex-marriage relationship for 6 months I walked out on my ex and then came back. He was super chilled and it took me a while to commit. Although to be fair once I did commit he was then an a*se.

[Redhead14]

it would be so much easier for him to just say it's never going to happen for us. -- It's not easier for him. He can't/won't do it or he would have done it a long time ago. It would be so much easier on you if you take control and tell him you're moving on because you two aren't on the same page PERIOD. You're letting him control what happens with your life. Take that control away from him.

 

He's not stringing you along, you're stringing yourself along.

[weeble78]

every time I take the required action ie not responding to him, he tries to get my attention back and becomes unsure he's doing the right thing? -- All you two are both doing is being each other's doormats. You're rowing the same boat. Mirroring him essentially. He's sees himself in you and that scares him while at the same time knowing it doesn't work.

 

Funny you say that, I do think we are scarily like and I'm currently on the receiving end of what it's been like in the past to date me at the beginning as I run at every opportunity but have obviously been trying to change that. I think that's why I've tried to be calm with him and lay out what I want, and back off if he's not taking me up on it. I've figured I may have to block him next although that will be the hardest thing to do.

 

Yes, you should stay away from guys who don't know what they want. The want and need the company of a woman but they don't want a real relationship because they know they can't maintain it. They get a little close and that scares themv and then the back off. They do this often.

 

I suspect you are a nurturer/fixer. Don't be that. You don't want to date a project. You want a complete man who knows what he wants and who he is all the time.

 

I've been told I have too much empathy and am too nice to people, too understanding. In reality I think a lot of it is being laid back and lack of boundary placing to protect myself. He has a troubled background which he emphasises a lot but I try not to get involved with that.

[Zahara]

He must think I'm absolutely stupid. Was he stringing me along right from the beginning? Why get into that in the first place when things like this are pretty black and white.

 

I don't think he believes that -- he knows you are emotionally attached and endings are difficult. There's nothing stupid about letting go.

 

He spent hours messaging me last night, it would be so much easier for him to just say it's never going to happen for us.

 

Based on your exchange with him and all the "read between the lines", he has been upfront with you especially with...

 

- he’d only hurt me and he’s better off alone

- explained that his ex broke him and his heart and it makes him want to be alone

 

My last question to him was if he feels differently about me than I feel about him – as in am I the only one with these strong feelings. He won’t reply to the questions about whether he’s sure or if I’m the only one who feels this way.

 

You are trying squeeze answers out of him that he likely cannot give you. If he said he doesn't feel as strongly as you, it would hurt you. He likely does not want to do that. He can't say he feels the way you feel, then you're going to ask why he won't fight for you. He's not answering you because nothing will satisfy you.

 

You need to accept that he wants to be alone.

[Redhead14]

Why am I so stupid not to see the same things you see?-- Because you're too close to the situation and we have been around a long time

[weeble78]

it would be so much easier for him to just say it's never going to happen for us. -- It's not easier for him. He can't/won't do it or he would have done it a long time ago. It would be so much easier on you if you take control and tell him you're moving on because you two aren't on the same page PERIOD. You're letting him control what happens with your life. Take that control away from him.

 

He's not stringing you along, you're stringing yourself along.

 

Ive come away from seeing him fearing that this is what I have to do and mean it. I did it when we 'split up' and was successful but found it hard to erase him completely out of my head. I did a drunk text and we had a great time talking. He brings out things in me I thought I'd buried long ago and I think that is why I think he's so special. I feel like I can be open around him. Control is hard to take when you're scared of never finding that with someone again.

[weeble78]

I don't think he believes that -- he knows you are emotionally attached and endings are difficult. There's nothing stupid about letting go.

 

 

 

Based on your exchange with him and all the "read between the lines", he has been upfront with you especially with...

 

- he’d only hurt me and he’s better off alone

- explained that his ex broke him and his heart and it makes him want to be alone

 

 

 

You are trying squeeze answers out of him that he likely cannot give you. If he said he doesn't feel as strongly as you, it would hurt you. He likely does not want to do that. He can't say he feels the way you feel, then you're going to ask why he won't fight for you. He's not answering you because nothing will satisfy you.

 

You need to accept that he wants to be alone.

 

I hear you. I just wish he would hurt me and tell me he doesn't feel as strongly as me. Then I would realise I was wrong about the way he feels about me. I guess I'd just love to know he feels strongly too but can't be in it for other reasons. Everyone wants to feel like they weren't wrong.

 

I've got to be honest, I really thought this was a game changer for me. And I'm a little bit devastated.

 

Thank you for helping and explaining, it really does make things clearer and its kind of you to take the time.

[Redhead14]

Control is hard to take when you're scared of never finding that with someone again -- This what is going on in his head too, sweetie. He does want someone but he knows he can't be what they need. That's why he won't do what needs to be done. You be the strong one for both of you!

 

You both found "someone" but not the right one but neither of you will let go becuase you might not find anyone else. You're both trying to settle. You be the strong one for both of you!

 

This is what I would predict if you two actually stay together -- He will be hot for a while until he gets overwhelmed and then he will be cold. You will start to feel lonely in the relationship because the connection can't be maintained. I would rather be alone and a little lonely once in a while than be in a relationship and still feel lonely all the time. You will be living for those little highs you get from him. You'll be an addict basically. When the high goes away, you'll be jonesin for the next high. Roller coaster ride.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Redhead14

[Zahara]

Ive come away from seeing him fearing that this is what I have to do and mean it. I did it when we 'split up' and was successful but found it hard to erase him completely out of my head. I did a drunk text and we had a great time talking. He brings out things in me I thought I'd buried long ago and I think that is why I think he's so special. I feel like I can be open around him. Control is hard to take when you're scared of never finding that with someone again.

 

You can't erase him because you don't give yourself enough time to completely heal. You give into your urges too soon and start the cycle again.

 

Sometimes when you can't have what you want, it becomes extra special. You romanticize what you had because you've created this image of what could be in your head and likely an image of him as well. He was unavailable to you. What makes him so special? People often mistake dysfunction for passion. The more drama, push and pull, hot and cold, the more it creates mystery and desire. Then it becomes this great love story in their head.

 

Finding that someone again? What did you really have with him in that 6 months of emotional unavailability that puts him so high up on a pedestal?

 

I hear you. I just wish he would hurt me and tell me he doesn't feel as strongly as me. Then I would realise I was wrong about the way he feels about me. I guess I'd just love to know he feels strongly too but can't be in it for other reasons. Everyone wants to feel like they weren't wrong.

 

But he is telling you. He is letting you go. He would rather be alone than be with you.

 

I've got to be honest, I really thought this was a game changer for me. And I'm a little bit devastated.

 

He was emotionally unavailable. He is not the game changer.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Zahara

[weeble78]

Control is hard to take when you're scared of never finding that with someone again -- This what is going on in his head too, sweetie. He does want someone but he knows he can't be what they need. That's why he won't do what needs to be done. You be the strong one for both of you!

 

I told him I'd be as patient as possible with him while he worked things out, Id do anything to try and make this work somehow. I told him that he needs someone he is more scared of losing than scared of getting hurt and that I feel like I'm not that person for him. Do you think he may ever come back at a later date?

 

You both found "someone" but not the right one but neither of you will let go becuase you might not find anyone else. You're both trying to settle. You be the strong one for both of you!

 

I hear you Sometimes I think it's impossible to be that strong. Sleepless nights and being a single mum, it's tough to be tough on yourself as well as other people.

[Redhead14]

I hear you Sometimes I think it's impossible to be that strong. Sleepless nights and being a single mum, it's tough to be tough on yourself as well as other people.

 

You need to take care of yourself. You can't be what your children need if you aren't doing that. Be an example of strength for them. They don't know what's going on with all this, but they can see that their mother is struggling with something. Focus on you and your needs and your children first. They do not need a "father" who isn't right for their mother or a father who cannot be emotionally involved with them.

[weeble78]

You can't erase him because you don't give yourself enough time to completely heal. You give into your urges too soon and start the cycle again.

 

Sometimes when you can't have what you want, it becomes extra special. You romanticize what you had because you've created this image of what could be in your head and likely an image of him as well. He was unavailable to you. What makes him so special? People often mistake dysfunction for passion. The more drama, push and pull, hot and cold, the more it creates mystery and desire. Then it becomes this great love story in their head.

 

Finding that someone again? What did you really have with him in that 6 months of emotional unavailability that puts him so high up on a pedestal?

 

 

Well he let me find my way back to feelings again. He'd be happy to talk about emotions and life. My ex husband refused to acknowledge the fact I had feelings, even when my mum was diagnosed with a terminal illness. This guy always listened to me, we'd spend hours every night talking on video chat, even cooking together. Just normal boring stuff but I never got bored.

 

 

 

But he is telling you. He is letting you go. He would rather be alone than be with you.

 

Man that is so painful to read. So painful. But real. And I think I'll keep reading it to keep it in my head. I asked him last night what would be so terrible about letting me in because I happen to think I'd only bring in lovely positive things to his life. It makes me sad that I'm not good enough for him.

[Redhead14]

You are a single mother. There isn't a tougher job than that really. But, you're doing it, aren't you? You're tougher than you think. Kick your own ass

[Redhead14]

I'm not good enough for him. - He is telling you the exact opposite. He's telling you that he's not good enough for you or anyone in fact. Believe him.

 

It's not you, it's him -- straight up. This is the exact situation that that cliche was created for . . .