Six months later...

[Maddie82]

She knows she is to blame and has taken full ownership.

 

Well, you can't 100% pin the blame on her. You have to ask yourself why she felt the need for the attention of another man in the first place. Was there something lacking in your marriage? She obviously found something in this guy that she wasn't get from you.

[pepperbird]

Well, you can't 100% pin the blame on her. You have to ask yourself why she felt the need for the attention of another man in the first place.

 

 

Now wait just a minute...

 

 

This is asking someone to be responsible for the choices someone else makes. That is just plain wrong. The op's wife had choices. She could have acted like an adult and voiced her displeasure, she could have told him she wasn't happy and wanted out.

 

Instead, she chose to play it safe and try and keep her marriage as safe place if her affair didn't work out. if her gambit didn't work out, that's on her.

[Maddie82]

She could have acted like an adult and voiced her displeasure, she could have told him she wasn't happy and wanted out.

 

Instead, she chose to play it safe and try and keep her marriage as safe place if her affair didn't work out. if her gambit didn't work out, that's on her.

 

I'm not saying she's innocent. She is definitely mostly to blame in this and i'm not convinced its actually over either. But he hasn't even considered for a single second that something may have been amiss in their marriage causing her to look elsewhere. There would have been subtle signs over the years that something was going on but he didn't see any of them. This tells me that she barely got any attention from him in the marriage.

[Amethyst68]

I'm not saying she's innocent. She is definitely mostly to blame in this and i'm not convinced its actually over either. But he hasn't even considered for a single second that something may have been amiss in their marriage causing her to look elsewhere. There would have been subtle signs over the years that something was going on but he didn't see any of them. This tells me that she barely got any attention from him in the marriage.

 

No, just no! Have you never heard of gaslighting? It goes on during marriages not just after affairs. People can and often are completely blindsided by infidelity!

 

This MW is no different from any opportunistic cheater. If she had troubles within the marriage then she had options. It's not OP's fault she chose the most damaging.

[mark clemson]

There may indeed have been all kinds of problems in the marriage (or may not have been) but problems are a reason to fix the marriage or if it really can't be fixed end it. If you think about it logically, problems in a marriage aren't a genuine reason or excuse to cheat.

 

I do think many WS's are cast here as users with little emotional concern for either BS or EMP. No doubt a significant portion are. But I think some significant percent are exactly what you're bringing up. They're unhappy in the marriage (for whatever reason) but unwilling to leave it. So they try to find the "happy medium" of cheating and hoping their spouse never finds out.

 

But really this approach is very misguided. If the the BS is so difficult to live with that they "deserve" cheating, then the person should just leave the marriage. How does one deserve cheating? They don't.

[Mr. Lucky]

I do think many WS's are cast here as users with little emotional concern for either BS or EMP. No doubt a significant portion are. But I think some significant percent are exactly what you're bringing up. They're unhappy in the marriage (for whatever reason) but unwilling to leave it.

 

So they try to find the "happy medium" of cheating and hoping their spouse never finds out.

 

Seems a bit of a contradiction here. Since I doubt neither the BS nor AP would most likely consider the affair a happy medium, doesn't that indeed make the WS a user of people for their own selfish needs?

 

Mr. Lucky

[mark clemson]

I don't know, for the specific affair situations where this applies maybe this is a matter of how one sees it?

 

Let's take a somewhat parallel case: a woman's father doesn't like her dating black guys. She doesn't like her dad that much at this time in her life, and likes a black guy.

 

She goes out with him, keeps it a secret from that dad and tells the secret BF she likes him (true), is at odds with her dad (also true) but because of her dad's views they could never openly be together and certainly never marry (also true).

 

Is she using the black guy for her own selfish needs?

 

I realize there are different parameters here, but I think it's a good parallel for what I mean. In any relationship, we are meeting our own needs to some extent, right?

 

Note that I'm not saying the cheating is alright or anything. And I realize this breaks down when we get to the marriage vs daughterhood aspect (one is a commitment, the other is not). But I think for pinning down whether one sees the person as selfishly using others it's a good parallel case. Some might say yes she is, others might not.

[pepperbird]

I don't know, for the specific affair situations where this applies maybe this is a matter of how one sees it?

 

.

 

 

I'll answer this the same way the marriage counselor my spouse and I saw did.

 

 

 

My husband was coping with extreme combat PTSD, and if you're never seen that, I hope you never do. It was awful. I don't know if it was because he was unhappy, self medicating, punishing himself , seeking escape or whatever, but he had a very brief affair, which he owned up to.

 

When we first saw the counselor, she asked him why he cheated. He began to give his excuses that were all external, and she cut him short. As she put it, none of them excused his behavior. He had choices to make, and he made them. That doesn't make him a terrible person, but he sure did make some crappy choices.

 

 

 

By making him use "I" statements, she forced him to take ownership of his actions. By doing so, she put him back in the driver's seat. What he owns, he can change. What happens "to" him, he can't.

[Buffer]

I am sorry to read your plight, how are you doing?

 

There are a lot of knowledgeable people here all offering you good information to assist you in your crap journey.

 

I do suggest that she does take the blood test, I understand she states on numerous occasions they never got sexual but that is her word only. Piece of mind.

 

Also regarding going CIA with the polygraph; do it as it can only assist you in getting to the truth and depth of the infidelity. Fooling around a little bit come on is she doing a Bill Clinton?

 

GoldenR has valid points as well as alivagain.

 

Things you need to realize:

 

- They had sex. A lot of it. As often as they could.

Tell her that in order to help you heal...

 

- If she's in R with you, but refusing sex, then she's not really in R...

 

- You are not responsible for helping her get over her OM. Not. One. Bit. She betrayed you. So she helps YOU heal. Doing what you're doing will do nothing but maintain the status quo of a loveless, sexless marriage...

 

She and you are in IC and have been for a good period of time if she still thinks sex is a no go due to feeling pressured.

Then she won’t get the desires, time to make her accountable for her years of betrayal of the marriage and children.

Suggest she move out for a period of time, the children stay with you. After a few weeks of NC then start date and family nights.

She can come back when she is desirous for you in the bedroom.

 

She has to get ? % back in the family not just as a room mate but a wife.

I understand she has issues but when is it going to be about you?

What is the worst that can happen a loving separate co perenting family or a sexless marriage so she can be in a secret open relationship without telling you.

 

Good luck

[HeartFullOfSoul]

Absolutely, you are right that the marriage has been in death throes for several years now; I just didn’t want to have a failed marriage like my other siblings and also, yes, this woman has been a friend for a long time so there’s a genuine comfort level there.

[pepperbird]

Suggest she move out for a period of time, the children stay with you. After a few weeks of NC then start date and family nights.

She can come back when she is desirous for you in the bedroom.

 

 

 

 

Sorry but to me, this sounds like incredibly bad advice. These are kids, and kids need stability. They don't need mommy to move out so they can stay with daddy and go back and forth while they try date nights and family nights.

 

 

If the op's wife is cheating and isn't willing to stop and put the work in to repair the damage she has caused, then she's already made her choice. It's time to go.

[HeartFullOfSoul]

Yes, the love was very much there, but really only for me; my wife had checked out not just 2.5 years ago, at discovery, but a good 2-3 years prior to that.

 

I spent the better part of two year trying to save my marriage. All of it one sided. At a certain point, anyone is going to pick up their toys and go home. The fact that I reconnected with an old friend has nothing to do with my sudden “change of heart”; my love (romantic love) has been taking a hit, daily, for a good year. So this is far from an overnight development.

[HeartFullOfSoul]

Not exactly. I was reticent to date, not even on my radar. And then this old friend of mine showed up at a dinner party and everything changed. It’s not just some cheap “hook up” situation and I’m not clinging onto the first woman who shows interest — I had always liked this woman, and she me, so it’s a much different situation. I’m not going to throw around words like “pre-destined”, etc, but we do have a history and a comfort level that is hard to deny.

[HeartFullOfSoul]

I understand and appreciate the advice and cautionary warnings. And my friend is very, very much aware of my status with my estranged wife.

[HeartFullOfSoul]

Of course. It takes two to tango, after all. Even though I worked excessively and was trying to rise up the corporate ladder I always made time and treated my wife thoughtfully and romantically. Whatever department I may have been lacking in I can guarantee you that it didn't justify her infidelity with another!

[HeartFullOfSoul]

Not true at all, on all counts

[Maddie82]

HFS you need to quote who's comment you are responding to.

[Chaparral]

Of course. It takes two to tango, after all. Even though I worked excessively and was trying to rise up the corporate ladder I always made time and treated my wife thoughtfully and romantically. Whatever department I may have been lacking in I can guarantee you that it didn't justify her infidelity with another!

 

Not only are you doing great, your luck has changed, that’s a two fer. Don’t hesitate moving on. It’s admirable that you tried to save your marriage from a cheating spouse and a friend that turned out to be a snake but it is never wrong to if you decide to dump a cheater. Reconciliation after cheating is a very high risk proposition that no cheater has a right too. You gave her a gift and she threw it in your face.

 

From your description of him, be prepared for your wife to communicate no crying back. For sure she will be whining about her life soon as you cut her out of your life. Hope you are already 180 ing her and leaving her in your dust.

[elaine567]

Stop being so naive.

Your "old friend" saw an opportunity to get herself a new man and you became available so she jumped at the chance... Two weeks after your wife walked out the door, she walks in..

Coincidence? Fate?

I doubt it.

 

Just another version of taking a "casserole" to the new widower...

[aliveagain]

Enjoy yourself, just be careful. Nothing helps you forget a cheating wife faster then meeting someone that has history with you. She has respect for you or she wouldn't be letting you know she is interested. I remember my first date, 6 months after my wife left me for 30 days to clear her head. I had learned my STBXW signed a one year lease on an apartment. I no longer cared what she did at that point and my date turned into a 3 month sorta relationship. Adults can talk and, they can express their situation to each other. The fact that she knows what your going through and you have a history together puts her in a different place then someone you don't know and just met. It did wonders for me, got me out of my depression.

[Buffer]

Take it slow but look after #1

[usa1ah]

My word some of you are harsh.

 

Op I am glad you have someone that makes you feel again. Best wishes on that.

 

When should the divorce start?

 

Does your stbxw know about the friend?

[merrmeade]

I love it. It's like taking a little something while the pain wears off. Just do it (seeing the woman you met again two weeks after your wife left) knowingly and don't get sucked in again.

[Steadfast]

I haven't posted for ages but wanted to add various people in this forum had a profound effect on me, and I passed on what was learned. Looks like the good work is being carried out still. Really, the only chance any cheated spouse has to save the relationship is immediately file for divorce and begin moving on. If (post divorce) the cheater misses and loves and regrets everything sincerely their efforts to reconcile could be considered. Or not.

 

Unlike our original poster my gaslighting experience was short and sweet, but the reality of being victimized isn't unique. The rejection, sudden lack of affection, cut off intimacy, lost, lonely, betrayed, self blame...all of these things hurt and the normal human response is to make it all stop.

 

This:

 

"...nothing helps you forget a cheating wife faster then meeting someone..."

 

Yeah, bless her heart, I had one of those. For various reasons it was doomed to fail and did, but words can't express what this woman's attention pulled me out of. In many ways, she saved me. I hope she knows.

 

If our new friend is still reading, I'll remind him that no other person can make us truly happy - that is up to every individual. For the long term we _must_ be able to sustain on our own, productive, happy and satisfied. If not, we'll go into every relationship (romantic or otherwise) needy and vulnerable. It's just no way to live. The lover brings something that you can't provide alone, but it adds to life. It isn't the center. That's on you.

 

A failed marriage and divorce often exposes our weaknesses and faults, but the amazing part is when the 'really bad' turns into a positive. The kids will always be there and with that, certain times when you'll be forced to see her again. It happens for me from time to time but now, it's just old memories. I'm nice.

 

Love is a decision.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Steadfast

[Buffer]

Ouch. Truth hurts.

 

I wouldn't call it "reeling off excuses". She knows she is to blame and has taken full ownership. ...

 

And maybe she's not "into me" at the moment the way you describe, but there have been some genuinely loving moments.

What would you suggest? I toss out 11 years of marriage b/c I we hadn't fully done the work of recovery yet?..:.

 

Brother love is full time you can’t just take moments in a day or week. I feel she is playing you and is still in contact whit the OM.

This isn’t acceptable, either she is full on board or not! Time to put your big boy pants on. ?% accountability contact lawyer and let her know this start the 180.

She is either in or never was.