Food for thought: The path we choose to travel

[Devildog]

Originally posted by wizdom

I know that God's original commandments have been Preserved through out the years

 

You know this? You have seen the originals? Because I know when I was growing up, attending my 12 years of Catholic School, we learned that 9 was "Thou shalt not covet they neighbors wife" and 10 was "thou shalt not covet they neighbors goods". Now my Dad has one on his wall that has "Thou shalt not covet" as number 10. So 9 and 10 were merged together and another seems to have been added in there.

 

I also agree that every religon has a bit of the truth in them. there is only one thing that they lack and that is realization that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that in order to come unto the father we have to believe trust and rely on Him.

 

Funny, but again, in my 12 years of Catholic School they really stressed that Jesus is the Son of God part. It appears to me you know very little about the religions you are so quick to marginalize and declare false.

 

You seem to think me a wicked, evil man wizdom. Your posts have been very judgemental for not judging lest ye be judged. Do I have evil tendencies? You bet your @ss I do. Do I act upon those? No, I don't. If you were to ask anyone who knew me for any amount of time, you would be hard pressed to find anyone who had a negative thing to say about me. I help people. I sacrifice of myself, give of my self and my own with no expectations of anything in return. Believe me, my life could be a lot better than what it is had I given in to the desire for selfishness and for putting me above all other things. But I don't, or atleast I try my best not to.

[Outcast]

The Bible, the Torah, the Koran is like and automotive guide: it's designed to help you keep it in the best possible running condition you can

 

Too bad these didn't come with extensive reference manuals to explain every paragraph in exquisite detail. Lacking such a document, men have done a fabulous job of twisting them, misinterpreting them, and generally turning them into weapons.

[wizdom]

That's why you rely on the Holy Spirit to Guide.

 

dd everything you just described are works. which are good but that is not enough to please God. God requires FAITH an DEVOTION. That is what your missing.

 

We may not have every little detail down that God expects from us but he does give us what is required to live eternally with Him. That is to believe that jesus died on the cross for your sins and to believe in his word And to Trust in Him.

 

i don't hate anyone who does not choose to believe in God. My heart is Grieved b/c I want you to know the love of Christ. I apologize for being Judgmental because i was not exhibiting the love of Christ. I can spend all day telling you what is wrong and what is right but until you experience the love of Christ for yourself you will never understand where i am coming from.

 

the reason i got on the topic about God is becasue i feel are obedience to him has a lot to do with the paths that we choose to take in life. I guess i need to pray and ask God to help me convey his message without being judgmental. I am very open to hearing about other religions and seeing where they come from with their believes. You have to do what is right for you I have my faith and i will not push it on anyone but i will share what i know. If in the end i am wrong i would have rather lived my life as though there was a God and that i needed to be saved from hell then to come to my last day and find out that there is.

 

i have a real passion for christ and i will share with anyone who's willing to listen and i also love to debate so this little forum was great. I guess you can say i learned some reasons why people choose to reject Christ.

[Devildog]

Originally posted by wizdom

I can spend all day telling you what is wrong and what is right but until you experience the love of Christ for yourself you will never understand where i am coming from.

 

No, you can't spend all day telling anyone what is right and wrong, because none of us really have the answers. All any of us have are the interpretations of other men or our own interpretations. And yes, my interpretations are based on my experiences. My experiences would shake the faith of alot of pious people. I didn't get bored with religion. When I was in Boot Camp, I was the Catholic Layreader. The spiritual guide for all the Catholics in my Platoon. I led the prayers at night, I was the one others came to for guidance and with questions about faith.

 

I received communion at the Vatican during midnight mass on Christmas Eve, consecrated by the Pope himself.

 

How much do you think it takes for someone like that to lose the belief and convictions like that?

[Moose]

wizdom,

 

I've learned that on this board, there are many who reject God. They are also set in their ways. You and I know the definition of, "truth", according to scripture, and we take this as the literal truth. Others do not. It's sad, heart breaking, and even confusing why they feel this way when it's right there in front of them plain as day, but it's also fact.

 

SO

 

Choose your battles carefully. It took me a while to realize who's deaf and dumb so to speak on this board, and now I don't even bother with most of them. That's not to say that I have given up on them. I certainly haven't. But on this board, you'll find people compelled to argue with you to prove they know more than you, or just to get your goat.

 

It is our job to spread the truth......but like I said, don't waste your efforts on deaf ears..............

[wizdom]

You figured me out in this litte time on this board. That is exactly how i feel I take the Bible at face value despite my circumtances. i lost my father to aids my brohter to a car reck and my son to adoption( b/c i felt it was best for him) i could have blamed God for those SITUATIONS but i use them as part of my testamony becase they have made me stronger and more reliant on God. Thanks for the incouragement moose.

[Moose]

i could have blamed God for those SITUATIONS

That's where I think most people make their mistake. They take their experiences, mainly the bad experiences, and blame God for how their life turned out.

 

When I punish my kids for something they did wrong, I set them down and ask them why they think I punish them. Is it because I like to hear kids crying? Is it because I need to take out my frustrations on something? Is it because I'm in a bad mood?

 

No, it's because I love them. Dearly. When something negative hits me, I don't place blame on anyone but myself. I examine what it is that I did wrong do deserve what I got. If I can't come up with a reason, then I know that it's more than likely something trying to hinder my walk with God. If it is directly from God, then I'd still consider myself blessed that my Heavenly Father loves me enough to chastise me.

 

Yes, we have a forgiving God. That's not His only attribute though, and we have to behave like He wants us to. So for this cause, I'd just leave these guys alone, if it's self pity they have, let them soak in it for awhile and maybe things will change for them eventually.......

 

Until then, let you and I keep our Faith........

[wizdom]

This was a discussion that i was looking for. I can tell that you are strong in the Lord and that you living by faith day by day.

 

I like your examples. To bad I'm leaving work I would have Love to discuse more things with you.

[westernxer]

Originally posted by Moose

It is our job to spread the truth......but like I said, don't waste your efforts on deaf ears..............

 

Moose...

 

You have to accept that we're going to disagree every once in a while. There's no point in having an open forum if you disregard other points of view simply because they sound too secular for your palate. I respect your devotion to your faith, but you have to respect my penchant for reason and clarity. What I find disturbing is how you and wizard can take our comments so personal, simply because they fall outside your realm of understanding (or zone of comfort).

 

To reiterate, this is an open forum that attracts people from all walks of life. The end result is a variety of opinions and experiences. The least you can do is tolerate without giving into condescension. Easier said than done, but not impossible if you try. We'll get along much better if you don't take things so personal.

 

[Devildog]

Moose, you can feel free to stop posting your pompous, holier-than-thou views on this thread anytime you want. You want to praise wizdom for believing like you do, take it to PM, but don't you dare look down your nose at others who choose to see things differently. You want to label my feelings as self-pity because my experiences don't mesh with what I was taught to believe God was like?

[Horse]

I guess the original post is toast. It's a shame. I kind of liked the discussion before it was hijacked by a zealot.

 

Since it's toast, I have a question for the zealots.

 

I don't get the whole Faith is a choice thing.

 

Wizdom says "i don't hate anyone who does not choose to believe in God." but I can't choose to believe in god any more than he can choose not to believe.

 

Do you guys really thing faith is a choice?

 

I wasn't mad at god. If he's up there, then he seems to like me because I've had a good life. The literal interpretation just stopped making sense to me.

 

Most of it really doesn't make sense.... To me.

 

so that put me in the void... No religions.

 

I've searched and studied religion for about 15 years now. I've been to all kinds of churches. I haven't found a religion that I can truly say believe in. At least not a literal interpretation.

 

So... Why would someone in the void choose one religion over the other? They all promise some sort of heaven. They all have a moral code and a righteous god (or a bunch of them).

 

If none of them speak to you. If no one religions seems more true than another. Even if you could choose to believe. How would you choose which one to believe in?

 

Right now it seems like people either go one believing the religion they were born into, or they separate from religion altogether.

 

Moose I am sincerely interested in your reply... as long as you don't get defensive and attack me.

[Moose]

The least you can do is tolerate without giving into condescension.

First of all, I posted what I did to settle wizdom down a bit because I'm sure you've heard it all before. I thought I'd save him some work. Secondly, I do not, and will not, practice tolerance, (in any way shape or form), towards anything that goes against scripture. That's not what scripture tells us to do, and I will not stray from it.

 

That's where my Faith differs from yours and it is something that perhaps you should tolerate since you have that luxury. Lastley, why should I be concerned with getting along with you or anyone else......don't you think I have the right to chose with whom I get along with?

You want to label my feelings as self-pity because my experiences don't mesh with what I was taught to believe God was like?

I'm not one to judge.......I believe my exact words where, if it's self pity........you know the answer to that question.

[Moose]

Originally posted by Horse

I guess the original post is toast. It's a shame. I kind of liked the discussion before it was hijacked by a zealot.

 

Since it's toast, I have a question for the zealots.

 

I don't get the whole Faith is a choice thing.

 

Wizdom says "i don't hate anyone who does not choose to believe in God." but I can't choose to believe in god any more than he can choose not to believe.

 

Do you guys really thing faith is a choice?

 

I wasn't mad at god. If he's up there, then he seems to like me because I've had a good life. The literal interpretation just stopped making sense to me.

 

Most of it really doesn't make sense.... To me.

 

so that put me in the void... No religions.

 

I've searched and studied religion for about 15 years now. I've been to all kinds of churches. I haven't found a religion that I can truly say believe in. At least not a literal interpretation.

 

So... Why would someone in the void choose one religion over the other? They all promise some sort of heaven. They all have a moral code and a righteous god (or a bunch of them).

 

If none of them speak to you. If no one religions seems more true than another. Even if you could choose to believe. How would you choose which one to believe in?

 

Right now it seems like people either go one believing the religion they were born into, or they separate from religion altogether.

 

Moose I am sincerely interested in your reply... as long as you don't get defensive and attack me.

Horse, As soon as I get to the homestead.....I'll start a new thread in response to this post.....I have a lot to say on this too.....

[quankanne]

Do you guys really think faith is a choice?

 

faith is a gift, and how we respond to it is "choice." But it needs to be understood that "faith" is not "religion," even though "religion" has its basis in faith. Faith is the spiritual journey, religion is the mode of transportation. Some folks like Ford, others Chevy, yet others would rather get about on a pair of rollerskates, and they're all okay because they get you from point A to point B.

 

… arguing the religion card is pointless, because then one implies that he or she knows the mind of God when it comes to my relationship with Him, and that's baloney. How can someone outside of that relationship -- or lack of it -- judge the quality of it, no matter how well-meaning they are? Devildog's original question about being on the right path as witnessed by the things that happen to him is a very subjective issue, because we don't live his experiences as does he, nor can we live that relationship he's got with his maker.

 

Tony said it best when he posted something to the effect that you are where you are meant to be at a particular moment in your life. Whether good or bad, harsh or not, it's all part of the journey, and only the person on that journey can decipher the meaning of it.

[Horse]

Originally posted by Devildog

So what do you think, are the constant struggles and difficulties an indication that we are following down the wrong path with our lives? Are things easier and our lives better when we are on the correct path?

 

I guess that would presume that there is a correct path and an incorrect path.

 

I think some paths are more bumpy, but they can be more rewarding than the path of least resistance.

 

Some paths are misleading and just suck... The start out as a nice four lane highway, and the degrade into a third world back road with mudslides and pot holes bigger than your car.

 

I think you got stuck on a couple of those.

 

Sometimes the harder path ends up being better for you than the easy path. It forces you to adapt and grow.

 

Which is pretty much what westernexer was saying.

 

But I don't think your troubles are a matter of choosing the wrong or a more difficult path. The paths you chose were probably the best for you at the time. Your path just fell out from under you.

[westernxer]

Originally posted by Moose

I do not, and will not, practice tolerance, (in any way shape or form), towards anything that goes against scripture. That's not what scripture tells us to do, and I will not stray from it.

 

Buddy, this isn't church...

[westernxer]

Originally posted by Star Gazer

Are you saying that the only path we should take is the one that we know will cause us pain and suffering? Hmm.

 

No, but pain and suffering are inevitable, regardless of the path we choose. It's a natural part of our existence. Everyone loves having a good time, but what about when they're down on their luck? Our ability to handle the trials of life is what defines us as human beings. It shows our true character (or lack of it).

 

Doesn't mean we can't enjoy ourselves...

[Devildog]

Originally posted by Moose

I do not, and will not, practice tolerance, (in any way shape or form), towards anything that goes against scripture. That's not what scripture tells us to do, and I will not stray from it.

 

So do you prefer the title of zealot or jihadist?

 

I believe my exact words where, if it's self pity........you know the answer to that question.

 

Oh thank you Mr. Clinton, now if we can just settle on the definition of what "if" is. Yes, I know the answer to whether it is self-pity and it is not. But you seem to have classified it as such. I notice you didn't list any other alternatives to what you think it could be.

[Devildog]

Quankanne, I really appreciate your insights into this matter. It is refreshing to get input from a religious person who isn't a "save the heathens from themselves" oh-so-righteous zealot. You have alot of patience and tolerance and understanding of the extenuating circumstances that others might face to arrive at their point on a spiritual journey. Those are good "Christian" values to have. Too bad others can't exhibit those.

 

Even with all the theological babble that has been tossed into this thread, there has been some good insight into the original question. Alot to really think about, and alot of good new things to consider with my original thought.

[Outcast]

Even if you could choose to believe. How would you choose which one to believe in?

 

I think I'd go B'hai, although I'd need to learn much more about it. This is based on fairly minimal knowledge but it seems to be very worldview everyone-love-everyone gaia type stuff.

[Horse]

Does that make you B'hai-Curious?

[quankanne]

Quankanne, I really appreciate your insights into this matter. It is refreshing to get input from a religious person who isn't a "save the heathens from themselves" oh-so-righteous zealot. You have alot of patience and tolerance and understanding of the extenuating circumstances that others might face to arrive at their point on a spiritual journey. Those are good "Christian" values to have. Too bad others can't exhibit those.

 

thanks, devildog. I believe in saving heathens from themselves one at a time, and my husband is holding the winning number ...

 

seriously, though, it's easier to *ahem* witness by finding those things that unite, rather than which divide. I've met a lot of people in my line of work who have shared their faith journeys, and I've come to understand that the bumpier or more crooked the path, the greater awareness of the wisdom or learning experience that comes with it. That's not to say that the one who have happy-go-lucky, centered-in-God lives don't possess this wisdom, but that it's from a different perspective than the one who has faced those difficulties.

 

this is a really good question you've posed, because it's helped me better put into perspective my own thoughts about the faith journey ...

 

Even if you could choose to believe. How would you choose which one to believe in?

 

I'd stick with being Catholic -- there's a richness of history and tradition that just appeals to me. And I like the security in knowing that chronologically, we can trace our roots back to the apostles themselves.

[Horse]

Originally posted by quankanne

 

Even if you could choose to believe. How would you choose which one to believe in?

 

I'd stick with being Catholic -- there's a richness of history and tradition that just appeals to me. And I like the security in knowing that chronologically, we can trace our roots back to the apostles themselves.

 

 

I like the ceremonies, the cool churches and outfits and the latin, but that sort of sidesteps the question.

 

 

If you were in the void and you had no attachment to a particular religion, how would you choose one over the other?

 

If you pick the wrong one, you could hypothetically go to hell and burn in a lake of fire while dudes poke you with pitch forks and stuff.

 

I don't believe that, but apparantly a lot of people do and they all say "Join my religion. It's the only true religion. All of those other guys are Heathens, pagans, infidels, Communists, etc..."

 

I thought I was straying from the original post, but it fits. If you are not on a recognized path, how do you choose the correct one (if there is a correct one) when the consequences are so dire and you have no real way of objectively evaluating them because they are all based on the one thing you lack: Faith.

 

Right now I'm happy traipsing through the woods occasionally stopping to check out a path, but I'm curious.

[Outcast]

Does that make you B'hai-Curious?

 

 

I don't believe that, but apparantly a lot of people do and they all say "Join my religion. It's the only true religion. All of those other guys are Heathens, pagans, infidels, Communists, etc..."

 

Nobody can rightfully lay claim to God. Run far and fast from anyone who does. You aren't required to adhere to a religion in order to have faith but it can be nice to take part in some rituals and be a part of a group.

 

Have you looked into the Society of Friends?

[westernxer]

Originally posted by Devildog

So do you prefer the title of zealot or jihadist?

 

I think Moose just revealed his true colors. Sad how some people refust to co-exist.