Answering the "need to know" or letting it simmer...

[BetrayedDad]

From what I learned in the situation I was involved in, after d day he told his wife what he knew would help him save his marriage. He told her about meeting at my two homes, in my car, meeting in my city.... etc., however he left out that he took me over to his house more often than not, it happened in his SUVs, a couple business trips, in his office, on their anniversary, on her birthday, when he said he was with the guys playing Poker, and definitely never told her about the other APs he had and all the online personal ads he put on CL, etc. He pretty much left out anything that he knew she wouldn't be able to blame me for. He knew as long as he got her to blame me and made it look like I pursued him (I had never experienced being pursued as strongly and been manipulated like he did in my life!), he knew he'd keep his family intact. He said he always wins... I guess that means doing all sorts of harmful things to other people to get what you want.

Your husband may not be anything like the exMM I knew but the more information I gather from reputable sources, there is a common pattern that most cheaters follow and my experience was no different.

Maybe I was lucky to have my exMM confide in me about some of his secrets, so I can share what really goes on inside their minds and how much deception a wife goes through because they rarely get the full truth from their husband.

 

Interesting post. I suspect it would hold true for husbands and their WW as well.

[BetrayedDad]

I know that I don't know everything, but I did eventually get to a point where I knew "enough". I can live with that.

 

I believe only you will know how much is "enough".

 

I also believe the duration of the affair factors in how much information is enough. In my case, 4 years...I will never know everything.

[pheonixrisen]

There is a difference on how the BS stops asking

questions.

 

It is one thing when the WS is answering every

question that the BS asks and then the BS reaches

the point I do not want to know any more and

decides to no longer hear anymore of the truth.

 

Then when the BS has a WS that is trickle trothing,

claims trauma caused them to block it out, the

"I do not remember". The WS's stonewalling

eventually wears out the BS and they stop asking.

They then resign themselves to not learning anymore.

 

Do posters here see the difference?

 

One BS got to control how much truth to hear.

 

One BS got to resign themselves to that they

are not going to hear anymore, seek anymore

truth.

 

The end result for the BS may be the same. Though

the decision making process was not.

 

Yes you are right there is a difference .

 

In my case following Dday and till one year I asked a 100 different questions in 100 different ways to see if his answers were different. But he calmly answered them ..we got into huge arguments then but he always answered no matter when I asked .I don't know if they were all truths .who is going to trust them after Dday .

But we exhausted the topic and I got tired:lmao:

 

His was a 2 year affair I have accepted the worse and that I would never know every detail but I can live with what I now know and forgive and move on

 

So you are right we may have the same end result but our process was different and I get why you may be starting to build resentment .

[BTDT2012]

From what I learned in the situation I was involved in, after d day he told his wife what he knew would help him save his marriage. He told her about meeting at my two homes, in my car, meeting in my city.... etc., however he left out that he took me over to his house more often than not, it happened in his SUVs, a couple business trips, in his office, on their anniversary, on her birthday, when he said he was with the guys playing Poker, and definitely never told her about the other APs he had and all the online personal ads he put on CL, etc. He pretty much left out anything that he knew she wouldn't be able to blame me for. He knew as long as he got her to blame me and made it look like I pursued him (I had never experienced being pursued as strongly and been manipulated like he did in my life!), he knew he'd keep his family intact. He said he always wins... I guess that means doing all sorts of harmful things to other people to get what you want.

Your husband may not be anything like the exMM I knew but the more information I gather from reputable sources, there is a common pattern that most cheaters follow and my experience was no different.

Maybe I was lucky to have my exMM confide in me about some of his secrets, so I can share what really goes on inside their minds and how much deception a wife goes through because they rarely get the full truth from their husband.

 

I am amazed that you believe you got the full truth from a person that you describe a lying and manipulative.

[merrmeade]

Just checking in. Each post has really filled out this issue. Amazing how many of us share so many aspects. Equally amazing is that WS don't realize how common and predictable their ploys and excuses sre.

[BetrayedH]

Just checking in. Each post has really filled out this issue. Amazing how many of us share so many aspects. Equally amazing is that WS don't realize how common and predictable their ploys and excuses sre.

 

I think what bothered me the most was the continuation of it. I'm not surprised that anyone would get caught with their hand in the cookie jar and initially say that they weren't going to eat the cookie. But to continue the same lie with the expectation that we're just too stupid to see the lie for what it is, well, it's just insulting and continues to be insulting the longer the lie is perpetrated.

 

I think you're actually at a point where you're prepared to forgive your husband for his flaws (which is no small thing) but it sticks in your craw when he keeps treating you like you're a dumbass.

[merrmeade]

Yep. You're good, BetrayedH. All of it. To the insulting and the dumbass.

 

I don't like it when BH blame themselves either and I'm not doing that, but will say that my expectations and enabling also have played a part in his falling short of telling the truth. I that I need to hold him to a mfing higher standard.

[40somethingGuy]

I have a new job and so am just going to drop this question and respond later.

 

I've realized that I didn't get the whole truth in the five years since Dday but pretty much feel I've figured it out. The thing is, knowing - rather, getting confirmation from him - won't change a thing in our case. We're old, settled, got kids and grandkids around us. Everybody happy. Nobody's going on long trips, and I know everything that's going on without needing to dig. He knows I don't miss a gddamn thing and I can't be hoodwinked or gaslighted into thinking I did. In fact, he knows that I see what's happening before he does. So, no, his cheating again is not a risk.

 

This isn't about why he won't cheat again. It's about the past. So reading another thread about someone in the first year of betrayal, realizing she didn't get the whole truth and so can never trust him again, I got to thinking again about whether I want to go through the agony of making him confirm what I already know. What would we gain?

 

What would I gain? Peace of mind? Maybe. Maybe not. I know I'm not going to make him understand why I need to know, and I accept that (that he'll never understand that need).

 

I really liked one philosophical answer in that other thread - "I trust that she is a flawed human being as we all are. Rather then mistrust her. Its subtle difference that removes emotional component from her cheating and my trust." Without analyzing that too deeply, it's pretty much how I feel. I take him as he is. I know he's not going to hurt me like that again.

 

The question is how much do I need to know and why? Can I live with not having that out between us?

 

Here's why it's a real dilemma: It's a cataclysmic event for him. Every conversation we've had on it, I've gotten just a little more information, each piece of which was shocking, damning and completely unraveled him. He would be over it in a day and really sweet after, but the initial admission is like surgery without anaesthesia for him and an extremely unpleasant, upsetting experience for me.

 

I'm not interested in fixing him or making him go through it because he needs it. I'm not a psychologist and don't know why he's so fcked up in this way. I don't care. It's who he is and I'm not interested in changing him out at this point. I like our life and our growing, changing sex life. I'm happy.

 

Except I keep thinking about it. I just want to say sometimes, "I know for a fact that you x, y, z. I just want you to know that I figured it out. I know and I'm over it, but it WASN'T because you convinced me you were telling the truth or anything else you said or did. And, by the way, thank you very much. Not."

 

I guess it's my sense of dignity maybe? Letting someone think they fooled you is degrading. It's pretty basic and still comes up, but it's certainly less than it was 2, 3 or 5 years ago.

 

Do I answer this "need to know" or let it simmer? Will it eventually dry up and go away? I don't really think there is an answer or anyone knows.

 

My wife doesn't play the perpetrator role very well. She was humiliated when I told her I knew of the affair and he reaction was strong as she collapsed and cried. She could no longer act like the morally superior one. What I should have done was said, 'I need you to tell me exactly why you've been weird the past couple months.' I am sure she would have tip toed around and not disclose but I guess I wish I put her in a position to have the chance to tell me (she said she was going to take it to the grave). I wish I said, 'you are really having a hard week getting dumped twice...once by HAIRY GUY and now me.' I did ask a lot of questions and she did answer them and admitted she was not telling me all the details because she was afraid I'd divorce her. While I know most all the details there are still some burning questions that I will likely never know. I do want to know and I have my days still where not having all the details bother me. Other days I am OK.

[BetrayedH]

Yep. You're good, BetrayedH. All of it. To the insulting and the dumbass.

 

I don't like it when BH blame themselves either and I'm not doing that, but will say that my expectations and enabling also have played a part in his falling short of telling the truth. I that I need to hold him to a mfing higher standard.

 

Perhaps he would be receptive to a deal of some sort. He admits to x, y, z (whatever it is that you think you really need to hear) and you agree to no longer dragging him thru the mud about it. You seem to have acted in good faith if you've avoided doing so for a year now. You respect what he needs but you insist upon what you need as well (which is the respect of being given the truth about what you're expected to forgive).

 

His continued denials are building a wall between you and it's limiting your ability to emotionally connect. I'm not sure you'll ever really be over this while he keeps up these lies.

 

You've gone a long way for him, MM. It's his turn to come towards you and to have some faith that you'll respect your end of the bargain.

[S2B]

Yep. You're good, BetrayedH. All of it. To the insulting and the dumbass.

 

I don't like it when BH blame themselves either and I'm not doing that, but will say that my expectations and enabling also have played a part in his falling short of telling the truth. I that I need to hold him to a mfing higher standard.

 

But he's not capable of any "higher standard" meme.

 

He may be admitting IF backed into a perverbial corner - but that's not really your style.

 

What I found useful "for me" - knowing I was with someone who would NEVER admit - was to simply state what I knew (based on my evidence) as fact.

 

That worked. He STILL tried denying it - but I left no wiggle room!

 

Some folks who have NO conscience will not admit. Best to just state what is real and expect no admission but allow them the room to KNOW that you know. Then leave it at that.

 

He will know you know. What happens from there? Probably nothing ... since he's the type that just avoids admitting or doing anything to help you.

 

It's a limiting kind of intimacy/loving relationship from that point. But if you can live with that then that's your choosing.

 

Hugs

[elaine567]

I think what bothered me the most was the continuation of it. I'm not surprised that anyone would get caught with their hand in the cookie jar and initially say that they weren't going to eat the cookie. But to continue the same lie with the expectation that we're just too stupid to see the lie for what it is, well, it's just insulting and continues to be insulting the longer the lie is perpetrated.

 

I think you're actually at a point where you're prepared to forgive your husband for his flaws (which is no small thing) but it sticks in your craw when he keeps treating you like you're a dumbass.

 

I am not sure if he is treating you as a dumbass or whether it is all simply about self preservation.

 

A ws if they are still hanging around does not want a divorce and all the horrible things that come with it, so the last thing they want to do is say something that may trigger the BS into saying "Enough is enough I want a divorce", or "Enough is enough we are now just room-mates, like it or lump it", or "Enough is enough I am leaving and taking the kids with me" or any other horrible scenario they would not wish to contemplate

 

They are walking a tightrope, they do not really know where the head of the BS is at and so any wrong move could send them spiralling towards disaster.

[merrmeade]

But he's not capable of any "higher standard" meme.

 

He may be admitting IF backed into a perverbial corner - but that's not really your style.

 

What I found useful "for me" - knowing I was with someone who would NEVER admit - was to simply state what I knew (based on my evidence) as fact.

 

That worked. He STILL tried denying it - but I left no wiggle room!

 

Some folks who have NO conscience will not admit. Best to just state what is real and expect no admission but allow them the room to KNOW that you know. Then leave it at that.

 

He will know you know. What happens from there? Probably nothing ... since he's the type that just avoids admitting or doing anything to help you.

 

It's a limiting kind of intimacy/loving relationship from that point. But if you can live with that then that's your choosing.

 

Hugs

this is very good. It is exactly what I intended. And it's probably enough just to have set it out loud regardless of his reaction. I want him to know that I know. Simple.

[merrmeade]

Perhaps he would be receptive to a deal of some sort. He admits to x, y, z (whatever it is that you think you really need to hear) and you agree to no longer dragging him thru the mud about it.

Hmmm, yes. I have said this a few (dripping sarcasm here) times. But, you're right, the fact that it's been a whole year does lower the hysterical margins on both sides considerably.

[harrybrown]

he has the puzzle all in front of him.

 

You only have pieces of the puzzle.

 

You can not process without the whole puzzle.

 

If you had the A, would he want to know? I bet he would want to know all of the details.

 

He could write you the timeline. You have given him quite a gift.

 

Hope he figures that out. have him stop protecting himself and give you the timeline with the details that you need.

 

He could also pay for a polygraph.

 

Hope you get some piece.