another 2 years... and no significant progress

[Dave1963]

This is a follow on to the thread I created in 2015

see http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/534677-these-limitations-reasonable-2-years-after-affair

 

I am so miserable and time is ticking on... we are getting older... since my previous postings, there have been discussions virtually every day. Lots of anger from my OH, almost on a daily basis, and what seems like more and more restrictions as to what I can / cannot do.

 

She believes I have Asperger disease, which accounts for my lack of empathy. She has been trying to 'train' me out of those behaviours, but it seems it's difficult to teach an old dog new tricks! I feel I have been trying so hard to change my behaviour and be more aware, empathetic and expressive, but it seems it is hard to do everything 100% correctly all the time.

 

In the meantime, I feel I am severely restricted by what she thinks is reasonable for me to do. Hence I would appreciate other's views as to whether these restrictions are reasonable, given my affair 4.5 years ago. The sort of things I am referring to mostly centre around me not being in a position to see other females, as they are invariable 'show-off sluts flaunting their sexuality. By other females, this includes people in real life, pictures on the Internet, including (believe it or not), cartoon images of females in those pop-up 'can I help you' web assistants.

 

So, limitations such as:-

 

- Avoiding browsing / buying anything on the Internet, unless she is present (and preferable in control of the mouse)... with the exception of critical business searches if she is out (but then I have to keep links to the sites, so she can check them out later). e.g. She is not happy with me going to (say) Amazon, because on the front page there may be pictures of slutty singers, film stars or women promoting clothes.

- Not going to shops or towns. She has categorically stated that there is no way she would let me go to a supermarket, DIY or department store again.

- Avoiding having any 'sexist' material in the house. This means that on the odd occasion when she buys me a Golf magazine (as I am not allowed to go to the newsagent), she will 'edit' it and tear out pages with women on it where you can see some thigh or the shape of a breast under a top.

- Letting her listen to any business voice messages we receive, in case there is a 'female' voice on the message. (and, I just remembered a few weeks ago she told me not to listen to a message or "I'll wring your f**king neck")!

- Not letting me look at the wedding photos of my daughter's wedding as there were so many "ghastly females showing off" (which there're weren't in my opinion). Hence, I have been asked to say what photos I may like to have and she will edit some for us to keep.

- Not doing to an old (male) friends house, because he is not the tidiest person and his lounge will be covered with unopened post which may contain pictures of "show-off" females and he will have 'boxed-sets of DVDs' which will have images of semi-clad females on it.

 

If I counter any of those preferences, I am met with one or more of the following counter arguments:-

 

- It is not my fault... it is the result of how you betrayed our trust and how porn-ified society has become, that I have only woken up to after the A.

- You are busy and have work to do, so it's better that I do the search/buying/fact-finding and then just get your agreement when I have short-listed valid products / suppliers.

- Supermarkets are grotty and full of show-off chavs, so it is better that I go there than you.

- Restaurants/pubs are poor value and serve low-welfare food, so we are better off eating at home (which I do agree with - we are both good cooks - but it is the restriction of never going to one again that is the issue, rather than particularly wanting to do so).

 

Recent low-points have included:-

 

- receiving a product bought online, and on opening it together, there was a 'guarantee/help' leaflet that had a picture of a smiling woman's face, wearing a call-centre headset. The woman was the stereotypical smiling blond (i.e. a stock photo and not how a real call-centre agent would look like). Now, at the point, I muttered something like 'more-sexist-rubbish', but because I apparently said it in a neutral way, without meaning, it resulted in her ripping it up in minute pieces, shouting at me and spitting in my face.

 

- wanting to go to a golf driving range on my own whilst she attended an exercise class nearby (i.e. going in one car). But that was met with non-acceptance on 2 grounds; a) that she wanted us to do fun things together and not separately any more, after what we have been through and b) she wouldn't be able to concentrate on her exercise class not knowing whether there may be some other female "showing off" on the driving range near me, and that she couldn't trust me to tell her afterwards what I saw. She was so upset at the thought of me doing something independently, that I backed down.

 

So, what to do? She says she will never be able to trust me again. Then adds that anyone is stupid to trust anyone anyway. She says that after the affair she wants us to do everything together (although she attends classes, yoga, sees friends and goes shopping on her own).

 

And she won't accept counselling as counsellors a) won't be able to understand the complexity of it all and b) they may not be totally confidential.

 

Any advises gratefully received!

[somanymistakes]

Leave.

 

I'm sorry, but this dynamic has turned very poisonous. Sure, you were wrong to have an affair and hurt her, and you feel guilty and think that you may deserve this, but by this point she has created an environment where neither one of you can ever be happy.

 

No one is winning here.

 

Is she still being physically violent towards you for your "misdeeds"?

 

Nothing that you do will ever be good enough to make her happy and content and not afraid. No amount of change and understanding will fix her fear and anger, because that's internal to her by this point and not really about you.

[wmacbride]

first off, tell your wife this.

 

Aspergers DOES NOT mean someone has no empathy. It is a disorder of communication and sensory input processing. In fact, many people with aspergers are actually overly empathetic, so much so that they will even attach emotions to an inatimate object ( think of that old IKEA ad with the poor little lamp out in the rain- that used to make my daughter with aspergers cry because she hated the idea of something being discarded and left alone and forgotten in the rain).

 

Apsergers is also not a "disease" . Sorry, but right now, if your wife was here, she;d be getting a throttling and then a stern lecture from me...:laugh:

 

Personally, I think your wife is being abusive to you. if you were a female, everyone would be telling you to get out now. I'll say the same to you. Get out now, before she does any more damage.

 

I have a spouse who had an affair. Yes, that was a huge screw up on his part, but that DOES NOT mean that he shoudl pay for it for the rest of his life. What good would that do, besides making two miserable adults raising three kids in an unhappy home. Who has time for that sort of crap?

 

If your wife continues to punish you like this, to insist on this level of control and to brow beat you ( not to mention diagnosing you when she doesn't even know what the hell she is talking about) then she doesn't love you. I don't know what the frig to call her attitude but to me, it's abuse.

 

Look, you only get one go around in this world. Do you really want to spend it being unhappy? It sounds like you cheated, but that doesn't mean she gets to treat you like this. Either get some therapy for the two of you or go.

[alsudduth]

Your wife has gone off the deep end. You can't fix her, and you will never be able to atone for your affair. Ever. Because she won't allow it.

 

I agree that you should leave.

[Doorstopper]

The first response from yoiur original post was:

 

Your going to need professional help if your going to have any chance. Her rules are unrealistic and impossible, even after what you did to her.

 

Its still the most valid bit of advice you can be given.

 

You need an impartial MC to tell your wife, her demands are ridiculous. She will not listen to you. Baring that, the last 2-4 years will repeat for the rest of you life. The other option is divorce. Normally a Betrayed spouse will be told to use the possibility of a divorce as a way to "wake up" the cheating spouse and get them to understand that without change, the marriage is over. You need to be ready to do this, if your wife refuses MC or refuses to change after MC.

 

She may also need IC. There is something wrong her mentality on this issue.

[wmacbride]

Some bs are simply too hurt by an affair to recover, at least with the person they feel betrayed them.

 

They are scared, confused and also angry and upset. They try to get control over the tempest that has beocme their life.

 

For some, that comes in the form of being uber controlling. If as if she thinks if she can keep tabs on you all the time, you won't cheat. That says she doesn't trust you at all.

 

the problem is, it's like holding a sparrow. The tighter she squeezes to keep you with her, the more you will try to escape. She also doesn't understand that the only one who can stop you from cheating again is you.

 

Please, get counseling now, not just for you and your marriage but for her too. It sounds like she is very unhappy, as are you.

[mikeylo]

It seems like the trust is forever broken and you both are just hurting each other by staying together.

 

For some , the more blindly they trust you , the harder they take the betrayal. Not her fault.

 

Her ' rules' may not be what you like or right but they are a reflection of her hurt. She wants you to go through the same pain.

 

Maybe time to split.

[Rose.1977]

Leave.

 

I'm sorry, but this dynamic has turned very poisonous. Sure, you were wrong to have an affair and hurt her, and you feel guilty and think that you may deserve this, but by this point she has created an environment where neither one of you can ever be happy.

 

No one is winning here.

 

Is she still being physically violent towards you for your "misdeeds"?

 

Nothing that you do will ever be good enough to make her happy and content and not afraid. No amount of change and understanding will fix her fear and anger, because that's internal to her by this point and not really about you.

 

 

Exactly......

[NexttP]

The question I have is... did she berate other people before your affairs? If so, she's crazy. If not, she's crazy now. Either way, she's unreasonable and needs help. Only she can help herself, though.

[Dave1963]

Thanks for everyone's input...

Is she still being physically violent towards you for your "misdeeds"?

Much less so than 1 to 2 years ago.

 

Nothing that you do will ever be good enough to make her happy and content and not afraid.

I am slowly and sadly coming to that conclusion.

 

Apsergers is also not a "disease"

Sorry my typo... I meant 'syndrome'.

...but that DOES NOT mean that he should pay for it for the rest of his life. What good would that do, besides making two miserable adults raising three kids in an unhappy home.

Yes, agree.

 

You need an impartial MC to tell your wife, her demands are ridiculous.

I have suggested counselling. But my wife is very intelligent and doesn't believe anyone else would have the time and understanding to diagnose the issues (like she has done, from reading psychology books etc., to understand that situation in enough depth. If I say the demands are ridiculous or unacceptable I am met with the responses... a) that it was ridiculous what I did 4 years ago and kept doing behind her back, lying etc, so I am in no position to judge and b) that she has high values and wants to live life her way and if I want to be part of that then accept it, or f*** off.

 

Some bs are simply too hurt by an affair to recover

This is what she tells me often... that she can't recover due to my lack of social and communication skills... which is the reason she is investing so much time and effort into 'retraining' me. She says (and I believe it) that she wouldn't be trying so hard if she doesn't love me.

 

It seems like the trust is forever broken...

Yes, she has said that many times. Trust has been broken and will never be there again. Then adds that no one can trust anyone and that she was stupid to think that in the first place.

 

The question I have is... did she berate other people before your affairs? If so, she's crazy. If not, she's crazy now...

Yes, but to a lesser degree than now. She says the world has changed since her illness and more so, since the affair. Everyone is more show-offy since social media came alone, females are wearing less and being more sexually suggestive and that she doesn't want to mix, especially if I am with her, in those situations. She wants to avoid as much contact with others as possible, (which includes as I put in my original post, not driving around later in the week, when people may be going out, avoiding the school run times when slutty schoolgirls and their mums are around etc). It's not that I want to go out specifically at those times, but life seems unfairly limited if that is off the agenda. But then is it unfair if I have caused so much damage to her?

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Does your wife have OCD?

[Dave1963]

Does your wife have OCD?

No, she doesn't.

[elaine567]

What she told you 2 years ago still stands.

If I tell her than any of the above is ridiculous or too extreme a behaviour she will tell me that me f****** the OW was extreme, licking her c*** was extreme, hence I have no right to tell my wife what is extreme or not. She says that if I love her and want to make the marriage work, I will have to accept these limitations or f*** off.

Nothing has changed here, as nothing will change the reality of your affair in her eyes.

YOU were in a long marriage with a grown up kid and you essentially ruined it all, as far as she is concerned.

 

I guess she has some form of PTSD and anything "female" now triggers her into feeling awful, no doubt she has "mind movies" and "flashbacks" so she wants you to live in a woman free zone in order for her to feel safe again.

See Post Infidelity Stress Disorder

 

AND I guess she is also so f*** ing angry with you for ruining everything, that she wants to punish you daily too... IF you love her you will put up with anything - it is a huge test from a woman who now feels unloved and unwanted.

 

Yes, it may not be "normal" for her to do this after 4+ years, but if as you say she gets on with her own life "attends classes, yoga, sees friends and goes shopping on her own", then I doubt she is actually "crazy".

She is a hurt, angry and resentful woman betrayed by her husband of 25+ years and finding it hard to ever trust him again in a world full of young, sexy and available women...

Her whole world has turned upside down. Life for her will never be the same again.

 

She also "had major illness a few years ago, which she sees could potentially shorten her life and therefore wants to live it her way". Whilst she was no doubt at a very low point her life you were whooping it up with another woman...

She now feels she has a limited life expectancy and is therefore no longer willing to compromise for a man who let her down big time, her way or the highway. LIke it or lump it.

YOU like many WS just want the BS to just get over it and everything to go back to normal, but it rarely works like that.

 

Affairs often cause irreparable damage, but some can reconcile (happily or unhappily), some will divorce and move on, and some just stay together but will never forgive or forget and thus live in misery...

 

Yes she needs to go to counselling, but I guess she doesn't want to do that, as that would suggest something is wrong with her, and it is YOU that needs to pay here and wear that hair shirt... in her mind...

[BaileyB]

You may have had an affair and destroyed her love and trust, but her behavior is controlling and abusive toward you.

 

These "restrictions" you describe have no place in a healthy relationship when someone trusts and respects the other partner.

 

You need to leave is relationship. Why you tolerate this behavior is hard to understand...

[elaine567]

Why you tolerate this behavior is hard to understand...

 

Because he loves her, wants the marriage to work, doesn't want a divorce and because he feels responsible.

She wasn't I presume like this before his affair, so he feels it is all HIS fault and he must pay the penalty...

 

She is also an immovable force, and has made it clear if he doesn't like it and if he makes a fuss then it will result in divorce.

She has got him by the short and curlies... as they say...

[Dave1963]

What she told you 2 years ago still stands.

Nothing has changed here, as nothing will change the reality of your affair in her eyes.

YOU were in a long marriage with a grown up kid and you essentially ruined it all, as far as she is concerned.

...

 

Thank you. Your whole reply - not just the part quoted above - is absolutely what is happening. Nothing has changed and probably little else will. She has said it herself... she will never trust me again... I have ruined it all and nothing I can do now will change that. I will have to accept this way of living or move on. She has openly said she wouldn't still be here if it wasn't for concerns of upsetting other family members. So I will have to accept and shut up, or agree to separating

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Thank you. Your whole reply - not just the part quoted above - is absolutely what is happening. Nothing has changed and probably little else will. She has said it herself... she will never trust me again... I have ruined it all and nothing I can do now will change that. I will have to accept this way of living or move on. She has openly said she wouldn't still be here if it wasn't for concerns of upsetting other family members. So I will have to accept and shut up, or agree to separating

 

Like someone else said, you have ONE life to live. If this is how you want to spend it, feel free, but I sure wouldn't. You screwed up. You know that. It doesn't mean the rest of your life has to be in this prison .

[Dave1963]

Because he loves her, wants the marriage to work, doesn't want a divorce and because he feels responsible.

Exactly!

 

 

She wasn't I presume like this before his affair, so he feels it is all HIS fault and he must pay the penalty...

Not quite... I do feel it is my responsibility, but FYI she did have these tendencies previously but (in her words) had suppressed many of them. As I wrote back in 2015...

 

She has always had what I feel is a firey temper and will shout and slam doors at what I see is the slightest incident. She sees it as normal for a determined person of high values. She has always claimed she is unattractive, which I disagree with totally, and before the A was angry if other women were 'showing off' in any way. She has said that the A has exacerbated those feelings.

 

However, the A happened due to a deteriorating relationship over many years, no sex for a year and was made worse by her wishing that my plane had crashed on a business trip I went on just prior to the A and that she wanted to leave me later that year.

 

But, of course, I should have discussed these matters with her, rather than going behind her back.

 

Many of the limitations are due to her 'high moral standards' and having no desire to mix with people of a slutty or sexist nature, but she had suppressed her feelings until her illness and the A. Since then, she's said that her life has been shortened and I have f***** things up, so she wants to live it her way from now on.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Dave1963
clarity / typo

[elaine567]

I am not a great fan of reconciliation anyway, but no-one can live in an abusive situation long term, I understand where she is coming from but YOU cannot live like this any longer.

Not only is it bad for your mental health it is bad for your physical health too.

I am guessing you are approx 54yo from your profile name, so you need to be extra careful here as regards your health.

 

You can't solve this. Sounds like you gave it your best shot.

Please see a lawyer and get your ducks in a row. Protect your assets. If she was going to leave you prior to this blowing up, she may be stashing away money now, so keep your eyes open.

 

YOU need to look after No.1.

Life is too short for all this nonsense.

[Globug]

It is one thing to give her free access to your phone, internet etc where she can see you are not cheating when she feels insecure. It is another thing to have her control every aspect of your life & basically give you the freedom of a 3 year old. It is time to step out of the guilt & just be an adult. If she cannot accept that then it is time to move on. It does not sound like either of you are happy & no one deserves this for the rest of their life.

[BluesPower]

It really does not matter... if you want your marriage to work or not.

 

If you are a grown man you do not take this kind of treatment, period.

 

Your choices as continue to be a miserable wus or divorce her...

[georgia girl]

This is abusive, plain and simple and just like nothing justifies an affair, nothing justifies abuse. Please seek help for yourself. She fears your contact with the outside world as she fears losing control over you. Consider going to stay with a family member and/or calling an abuse hotline and talking to a counselor. You are not going to fix her, but you have to save yourself. No human being should live this way.

 

Wish you the best!

[sandylee1]

It's time to leave. Take the financial hit and be done, before this abuse reduces to a shadow of your former self and you become easy prey for another abusive relationship.

[Dave1963]

Thanks for all your replies - most helpful

[Just a Guy]

Hi Dave, JUST LEAVE! What you wrote left me feeling sick. Affair or no affair you do NOT have to live out your life in a concentration camp. Just leave or let your wife kick you out. Either way you will be much better off. Warm wishes.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Just a Guy