Respect and love in affairs is not either-or

[norudder]

I was thinking about a comment in another thread about respect and wanted to open up to the thoughts of others. It was something along the lines of the mm being able to show all of himself to the ow and "loving" her for that acceptance but only being able to.do so because he doesn't really respect her or care what she thinks whereas he may lie to his wife but because he respects her.

 

I kind of understand this thinking, I wondered that myself but I think its not accurate. There is no respect in the act of deceit. Can someone respect a person while behaving disrepectfully? Is the mm temporarily acting against who he his (values/thoughts) and will have regret and remorse for being in opposition to that ? Or is he expressing his real self and really doesn't have respect or guilt ? For anyone. Is there love without respect? Respect without honesty ?

 

I thought exmm talking to me about his M was disrepectful to me and his W, but context matters too. People in open or poly relationships may discuss relations with others. Its the lack of openness. They may do things sexually with one they don't do with another without it indicating more or less respect. Its the secrecy that screws with peoples minds and esteem.

 

We can only determine our own standards of respect and how we expect and will let others treat us. Doesn't matter in comparison to anyone else (like the bs) being treated better or worse.

[GirlofSpain]

Hello. I believe it is all deceit unless there is an end goal made from the beginning of an exit affair. The MM I broke it off with told me that he thinks of me when he has sex with his wife. I believe both women are mistreated in different aspects throughout affairs. Affairs always end in pain.

[K.K.]

I was thinking about a comment in another thread about respect and wanted to open up to the thoughts of others. It was something along the lines of the mm being able to show all of himself to the ow and "loving" her for that acceptance but only being able to.do so because he doesn't really respect her or care what she thinks whereas he may lie to his wife but because he respects her.

 

I kind of understand this thinking, I wondered that myself but I think its not accurate. There is no respect in the act of deceit. Can someone respect a person while behaving disrepectfully? Is the mm temporarily acting against who he his (values/thoughts) and will have regret and remorse for being in opposition to that ? Or is he expressing his real self and really doesn't have respect or guilt ? For anyone. Is there love without respect? Respect without honesty ?

 

I thought exmm talking to me about his M was disrepectful to me and his W, but context matters too. People in open or poly relationships may discuss relations with others. Its the lack of openness. They may do things sexually with one they don't do with another without it indicating more or less respect. Its the secrecy that screws with peoples minds and esteem.

 

We can only determine our own standards of respect and how we expect and will let others treat us. Doesn't matter in comparison to anyone else (like the bs) being treated better or worse.

 

You saw that too! Wow, I almost made this same thread because it bothered me so much if the poster was correct. My MM told me his deepest darkest secrets. I would hate to think that it was only because he didn't respect me so he could tell me anything? I always thought it was him trusting me more than he did her because when I asked him if he has told her, he recoiled like "No way are you serious!?" Like she was too uncool or judgemental to ever tell such things. I felt at the time that it was because he felt close to me. Not that he thought I was beneath her. Here he was in a marriage with her and couldn't share anything.

 

So when I saw that comment, it made me sad and hope it wasn't true. I keep thinking about it.

[Starswillshine]

You saw that too! Wow, I almost made this same thread because it bothered me so much if the poster was correct. My MM told me his deepest darkest secrets. I would hate to think that it was only because he didn't respect me so he could tell me anything? I always thought it was him trusting me more than he did her because when I asked him if he has told her, he recoiled like "No way are you serious!?" Like she was too uncool or judgemental to ever tell such things. I felt at the time that it was because he felt close to me. Not that he thought I was beneath her. Here he was in a marriage with her and couldn't share anything.

 

So when I saw that comment, it made me sad and hope it wasn't true. I keep thinking about it.

 

I think it is dependent on what it is that he is sharing with you that he isn't sharing with his wife.

 

My husband kept things from me in the beginning and well thought out our marriage that would not have changed my opinion of him, but he was worried that I wouldn't "like" him because I was the good girl. In one way, it is disrespectful for him not to tell me everything he was/is because he let me fall in love with something not completely true. On the other hand, he wanted to keep me around, but afraid because I was the "good girl."

 

Really, it is just an insecurity on their part. Means no respect or disrespect either way. My H said he would tell the OW anything she asked because he didn't care if it offended her. He would talk nasty and raunchy because he didn't care... he had nothing to lose. Note I said, this is what he said.

 

We will all make ourselves crazy trying to figure out what is real and what isn't. Or why this or why that. I know I am.

[aileD]

Men who cheat on their wives do not respect their wives.

 

But I kind of agree with what the original poster was saying, just not the semantics.

 

I think it's all part of the fantasy. Is he "really" like some freak in bed or can open up only to the OW because that's who he IS??? Or could is it just be who he wants to be for a little bit as an escape, because it's exciting, because things are stale at home? Because , see, most men when faced with being the man they are when with OW full time---they don't choose to be. They choose to be the person they are at home. The dad, the neighborhood good guy, the soccer coach, the loving husband.....but yeah, they like to get freaky a little bit and escape responsibilities and normalcy.....but they don't want to unpack and live there.

 

It's not really respect. It's the age old selfishness

[aileD]

And I guarantee you he's told his wife the same dreams he's told the OW.

[lana-banana]

Have you ever seen Crazy Ex-Girlfriend? The show title makes it sound awful but it's a really smart, subversive and funny show. Anyway, in one episode, the main character is having a mental breakdown. Rather than go to her friends or family for help, she confides in a terrified UPS delivery man. She begs him to reassure her and confirm that she's totally fine and normal. At one point she says "You represent the outside world because you don't know me, your perception of me is completely pure, you don't have an agenda..."

 

It's the same idea. People spill intimate secrets to others because they feel too entwined with the people they know. It's not a genuine attempt to build intimacy; if anything, it's a kind of emotional blackmail. It communicates "I can share this with you without fear of judgment because you aren't part of my real life". It's not flattering.

[cope ascetic]

It's possible that telling the wife everything would be a disrespect to her, if she would rather not know. Couples each decide how much privacy to give each other, there is no one formula for everyone.

[Redhead14]

I was thinking about a comment in another thread about respect and wanted to open up to the thoughts of others. It was something along the lines of the mm being able to show all of himself to the ow and "loving" her for that acceptance but only being able to.do so because he doesn't really respect her or care what she thinks whereas he may lie to his wife but because he respects her.

 

I kind of understand this thinking, I wondered that myself but I think its not accurate. There is no respect in the act of deceit. Can someone respect a person while behaving disrepectfully? Is the mm temporarily acting against who he his (values/thoughts) and will have regret and remorse for being in opposition to that ? Or is he expressing his real self and really doesn't have respect or guilt ? For anyone. Is there love without respect? Respect without honesty ?

 

I thought exmm talking to me about his M was disrepectful to me and his W, but context matters too. People in open or poly relationships may discuss relations with others. Its the lack of openness. They may do things sexually with one they don't do with another without it indicating more or less respect. Its the secrecy that screws with peoples minds and esteem.

 

We can only determine our own standards of respect and how we expect and will let others treat us. Doesn't matter in comparison to anyone else (like the bs) being treated better or worse.

 

It's what Robert DeNiro said in "Analyze This" . . . "there's stuff I can do with Xgirl that I can't do with the mother of my children". He's basically saying he respects his wife too much to have her do things with him that he feels are beneath her . . .

 

That doesn't say much for the affair partner and it's disrespecting the marital relationship anyway because he can't or won't communicate with his wife about what he wants and likes in the bedroom because, he himself, is judgemental about what is or isn't acceptable between a man and a woman The things he does with his AP are unacceptable so he does those things in secret so as not to disrespect his wife yet he doesn't have enough respect for her to communicate and be open about those things with her. He's supporting being disrespectful out of respect???? Oh, the convoluted, tangled web of justification, denial and selfishness . . .

Edited September 15, 2017 by Redhead14

[Redhead14]

Its the secrecy that screws with peoples minds -- Secrecy is what allows them to lie even to themselves. It's kinda like "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it still make a sound?"

[anika99]

Have you ever seen Crazy Ex-Girlfriend? The show title makes it sound awful but it's a really smart, subversive and funny show. Anyway, in one episode, the main character is having a mental breakdown. Rather than go to her friends or family for help, she confides in a terrified UPS delivery man. She begs him to reassure her and confirm that she's totally fine and normal. At one point she says "You represent the outside world because you don't know me, your perception of me is completely pure, you don't have an agenda..."

 

It's the same idea. People spill intimate secrets to others because they feel too entwined with the people they know. It's not a genuine attempt to build intimacy; if anything, it's a kind of emotional blackmail. It communicates "I can share this with you without fear of judgment because you aren't part of my real life". It's not flattering.

 

I think the above pretty much sums it up. It's like confessing to a priest or opening up to a therapist. Has nothing to do with love or respect. It's just that what the OW thinks doesn't really affect the MM's life.

 

When I was younger and emotionally immature I had a really hard time opening up and being my true self with people. The more I admired a person and wanted that person to like me the more I hid my true personality. It was unnecessary and it wasn't the other persons fault I felt that way. They had nothing to do with my being inauthentic, it came from feelings of shame that were instilled in me as a child.

 

Occasionally I would meet people whom I had no problem being 100% myself with and it had nothing to do with love or respect or trust. It was either because they were an outsider and what they thought didn't matter to me or, and this sounds awful but it's true, it was because I knew that person was pretty messed or flawed themselves and therefore they were no better than me and had no right to judge me.

However the moment I was with someone who I really admired or wanted to be in a relationship with I would try to figure out who I need to be to impress that person.

 

I wouldn't say the MM telling the OW things he wouldn't tell his wife is necessarily disrespectful to her. Respect has nothing to do with it.

[dichotomy]

Studies have shown people lie more to those they love or care about - respect or value.

 

I think there is more to risk or loose. It can hurt to open your self up, risk loss or perhaps loss of admiration or respect from your partner when you expose your deepest thoughts, feelings or fantasies.

 

Less risk in opening up to a affair partner or casual partner.

 

For example its common advise if you want to do something experimental - say a three way - BDSM - or even perhaps bisexuality - best to do so with someone you dont fear loosing or risking.

 

I can tell you my wife lied through her teeth to date, and get me to marry her. She was much more open to her MM or casual sexual parters and explored more.

 

but this is not everyone -

[Whoknew30]

Have you ever seen Crazy Ex-Girlfriend? The show title makes it sound awful but it's a really smart, subversive and funny show. Anyway, in one episode, the main character is having a mental breakdown. Rather than go to her friends or family for help, she confides in a terrified UPS delivery man. She begs him to reassure her and confirm that she's totally fine and normal. At one point she says "You represent the outside world because you don't know me, your perception of me is completely pure, you don't have an agenda..."

 

It's the same idea. People spill intimate secrets to others because they feel too entwined with the people they know. It's not a genuine attempt to build intimacy; if anything, it's a kind of emotional blackmail. It communicates "I can share this with you without fear of judgment because you aren't part of my real life". It's not flattering.

 

I understand what you mean but I don't personally think it's the same for a man in an A. If it's a one night stabs maybe but men don't share with their wives bc of the "respect issue" they don't share bc they don't want to bring up a subject that isn't going to be dropped. Sometimes men need to vent & they don't want the backlash of saying too much & then their wife not letting it go...also men don't always open up to their friends either...so if a other woman is in the picture they get to open up without it being thrown down their throat.

 

I've seen it a million times with all the men in my family. All of them talk to me about stuff they would never their wives & they all love me & would do anything for me but they come to me bc I'm without judgment (even if I'm reeming them for something stupid), I won't bring it up again if they don't talk about & they get the feminine perspective on whatever is...even sexual problems. I'm "safe" & if a man doesn't have a "safe" person in his life that he can go to, if there's an OW she would be considered "safe".

 

OP...it has nothing to do with respect.

[aileD]

Have you ever seen Crazy Ex-Girlfriend? The show title makes it sound awful but it's a really smart, subversive and funny show. Anyway, in one episode, the main character is having a mental breakdown. Rather than go to her friends or family for help, she confides in a terrified UPS delivery man. She begs him to reassure her and confirm that she's totally fine and normal. At one point she says "You represent the outside world because you don't know me, your perception of me is completely pure, you don't have an agenda..."

 

It's the same idea. People spill intimate secrets to others because they feel too entwined with the people they know. It's not a genuine attempt to build intimacy; if anything, it's a kind of emotional blackmail. It communicates "I can share this with you without fear of judgment because you aren't part of my real life". It's not flattering.

 

 

Wow. Mind blown. Great explanation!

[norudder]

I just think its incredibly sad. To be split like that and not be open to the the ones you value. To have the courage to risk having both, honesty and respect with the person closest to you in your everyday life (or should be), that's what authenticity and real intimacy should be. It seems very hard to.do.for many and to find those who understand it and want it.

[GirlofSpain]

The MM I was involved with was opposite. He would hold a hand to his chest if I mentioned he was a cheater and could be cheating on me as well. He would become so offended. He also started showing pictures of his college days, his children's home videos, and many other things. But, wham, each time we became closer and he shared more of his life, he would distance himself. I left. if he wants me then he will have to do the hard work, but if he stays, that is his choice.

[jah526]

It's the same idea. People spill intimate secrets to others because they feel too entwined with the people they know. It's not a genuine attempt to build intimacy; if anything, it's a kind of emotional blackmail. It communicates "I can share this with you without fear of judgment because you aren't part of my real life". It's not flattering.

 

That's the kicker though, isn't it, for an OW - to believe you are building true intimacy (the best friend/soulmate thing) with someone, when in the other person's mind you may just be the one he can tell things to because your thoughts and actions don't really have a critical impact on him (as they would with a wife who might divorce him, for instance).

 

Anyway, I think I'm the one that sparked this thread with a comment on another thread. Good discussion.

[Whoknew30]

That's the kicker though, isn't it, for an OW - to believe you are building true intimacy (the best friend/soulmate thing) with someone, when in the other person's mind you may just be the one he can tell things to because your thoughts and actions don't really have a critical impact on him (as they would with a wife who might divorce him, for instance).

 

Anyway, I think I'm the one that sparked this thread with a comment on another thread. Good discussion.

 

That's the reason that man would be having an A. If a spouse would divorce you for a fantasy or being open about your feelings...then how would that marriage ever make it without cheating or not end in divorce? What kind of soul mates can't share? The more important issue this posts brings up is why spouses can't be open with each other & by not being able to be open...can turn a spouse to someone else else wether emotionally or physically bc they can't open up at home.

[lostgirl87]

My soon to be former MM confided in me and always said he felt more himself with me than with anyone else. I felt the same about him.

 

He said "I have no reason to lie to you" several times. His outlook was that the biggest thing he could lie about (being married) I already knew and accepted so there was no need to lie. Maybe it's the dynamic of an affair that allows a MM to be so open and free with his OW. Or maybe, at least sometimes, 2 people find each other and have a genuine connection and are able to have true intimacy. Who knows. Every single relationship, every single person is different. No 2 situations are the same.

 

At least in my case, we have filed his divorce and are working on "us" so I'd like to believe that the latter is possible.

Edited September 16, 2017 by lostgirl87

[sandylee1]

A good friend recently discovered her husband was having multiple online EAs. She couldn't believe the things he said to them. The sexual stuff that she was disgusted by.

 

He told her he agreed it was disgusting and he had too much respect to speak to her like that or suggest those things.

 

My friend is very adventurous in the bedroom and says she has a higher drive than him, but he said he could say whatever to them because they meant nothing and he had nothing to loose.

 

He actually sent his OWs pictures of his family, including his wife at his daughter's college graduation.

 

It's madness.

[Redhead14]

Love, respect . . . affairs -- Seeing those three words in the same sentence nauseates me.

[cocorico]

Maybe it's the dynamic of an affair that allows a MM to be so open and free with his OW. Or maybe, at least sometimes, 2 people find each other and have a genuine connection and are able to have true intimacy. Who knows. Every single relationship, every single person is different. No 2 situations are the same.

 

Agree. I don't think the reason my fMM (now H) didn't share things with his XBW had anything to do with respect for her. If he respected her, there'd have been no A. And if he didn't respect me, we wouldn't be together. He shared with me because we had intimacy; he didn't share with her because they had none. It really was that simple.

[Redhead14]

Every single relationship, every single person is different. No 2 situations are the same.

 

There is one common denominator -- they are operating outside of the laws of marriage and societal constructs that are intended to allow for having a world that isn't full of people living in chaos and full of hurt.

[DKT3]

People see whatever they need to see to make themselves feel less foolish about very foolish choices. There is no respect and honor in affairs.

[cocorico]

People see whatever they need to see to make themselves feel less foolish about very foolish choices. There is no respect and honor in affairs.

 

In your opinion, perhaps. My experience is different. Lack of respect for the BS doesn't equal no respect for anyone.