The Game. Does it Work?

[Logo]

I watched a few videos online by a few men who call themselves "Pickup Artists".

 

One suggested that if you want a woman to feel an immediate attraction toward you and become emotionally invested, you need to ask her to hold/carry something for you as you pretend that your hands are full and that's why you need the help. For example, you're carrying a tray full of coffee cups and your phone is ringing, so you ask her to hold the tray for you. This creates a sense of obligation and creates some kind of emotional connection, or something like that.

 

 

Does anyone buy this? Has anyone tried it? Do you have your own true and tried pickup method?

 

 

I'd rather not have to resort to these silly games, but it seems like the two sexes these days are conditioned to play the game.

[GemmaUK]

PUA from what I have seen of it is pretty awful advice and much of it is so obvious.

 

The scenario you talk of though, no, holding a tray for someone won't make me emotionally invested.

I would be wondering why the guy was so tied to his phone that he would stop what he was doing when things like voicemail and viewing the last caller exists.

[Cookiesandough]

Haha that's hilarious. Pua is so sad. I used annoyed. Bow it's just pity. Theres a similar concept in the "rules" or female game. It says that you should act like a damsel in distress, because it plays on a man's "innate desire to be a hero" or something ridiculous like that. Maybe you should approach women with your hands full of trays/cups ask them to help you with them. Make her carry a whole bunch and far away and tell her you now feel obligated to get her a drink. Report back with results

[1fish2fish]

Ugh. Just no.

 

If a man asked me to hold something because his hands were full and his phone was ringing, I'd either tell him to let it go to voicemail or to set his stuff on the ground.

 

What is the woman supposed to do while standing there holding his belongings when he's on his phone?? That would annoy the f*ck out of me.

[act00]

I'm trying to think of some every day random instances where a guy would ask a strange woman to hold his stuff, and it just seems ridiculous that this could actually work. I would also be annoyed because I probably have some place to be, and your ever so important call doesn't preclude that. And then what? While the guy is on his phone, you just stand there? Deliver the coffee for him so he can take the call? I would feel no obligation and I think any emotional investment would be my annoyance.

 

This example seems a little counterintuitive (is that the right word?), actually. It goes against the notion that men are stronger, chivalrous, heroes, and instead needs the woman to help by holding something heavy, and when the phone becomes more important than presumably his guests (this would have to be a party situation with a tray of coffee), it doesn't come across well. I would think if there was an instance where a woman of interest could use some assistance, that would be a better approach.

 

I would be interested in hearing some of the other examples.

[Bastile]

Chateau Heartiste ------> science validates game.

 

Enjoy.

 

(or better yet, you can actually try and see for yourself with your own eyes...)

[salparadise]

One suggested that if you want a woman to feel an immediate attraction toward you and become emotionally invested, you need to ask her to hold/carry something for you as you pretend that your hands are full and that's why you need the help.

 

 

It's not unique to PUA. This is a common sales technique that is widely known. Getting someone to do you a tiny favor greatly increases the chances that they will agree to a larger, subsequent request. It's an ice-breaker of sorts, removes a barrier, establishes a pattern of interaction, agreeableness, compliance.

 

A similar closing technique (these have names but I don't remember them) that definitely works is to ask several questions in succession that have obviously affirmative answers... then comes the closer, and they answer is likely to be yes.

 

Another... when the sales process and prospect are at the right point (desire established, objections removed), rather than overly asking for the decision (an opportunity to say no), a salesman may ask a question that implies that the decision has already been made, affirmatively of course. Would you like us to replace the standard floor mats with premium at no extra charge? Or, do you prefer the red or blue ribbon?

 

All of these ploys will move a motivated, unaware past mental/emotional barriers without them noticing. Everyone should read a book on salesmanship so that you can't be easily manipulated by standard techniques and smooth delivery. As much as people like to discount PUA stuff as baloney, it's really just proven sales techniques applied in a different context. The fact that you find it distasteful is unrelated to whether or not it will work.

[Redhead14]

I watched a few videos online by a few men who call themselves "Pickup Artists".

 

One suggested that if you want a woman to feel an immediate attraction toward you and become emotionally invested, you need to ask her to hold/carry something for you as you pretend that your hands are full and that's why you need the help. For example, you're carrying a tray full of coffee cups and your phone is ringing, so you ask her to hold the tray for you. This creates a sense of obligation and creates some kind of emotional connection, or something like that.

 

 

Does anyone buy this? Has anyone tried it? Do you have your own true and tried pickup method?

 

 

I'd rather not have to resort to these silly games, but it seems like the two sexes these days are conditioned to play the game.

 

it seems like the two sexes these days are conditioned to play the game -- Like sheep mindlessly following the fold over the cliff? The sheep who stray from the fold don't go to slaughter. And, as a member of one of those sexes, I take exception to "being conditioned". If that is true for anyone as far as dating goes, wow.

 

Forget all that BS. Be yourself, be good at thinking on your feet, and yeah, if a creative/cute opportunity conveniently presents itself for attempting to connect with someone you're attracted to, go ahead. But don't be walking around looking for those opportunities with some kind of handbook in your back pocket or setting those scenarios up.

[littleblackheart]

I'm French and to me, PUA 'techniques' sound like what any red-blooded French guy would do intuitively, only they'd be less obvious doing it than a 'pua' because it's what comes naturally to them, it's not like a learned, forced thing.

 

If you want to know how 'the game' is played, spare yourself some time watching online videos, go to France and watch how they do it live. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it's not taken as seriously by the men who do it or by the women at the receiving end of it; it's just part of the culture.

[Imajerk17]

SI saw your other thread OP, I am not sure if this response is more fitting for this thread or your other thread.

 

Well anyway, PUA advice tends to be "newbie" advice. Basically PUA tries to reverse-engineer for socially awkward guys, what men who are great w women naturally and smoothly do. Men who are good w women know when to tease and make fun so the woman is smiling, aspiring PUAs try to replicate that--often unsuccessfully--by "negging". Getting to your example, I *have* seen these men off-handedly ask women to do small favors for them here and there (and I suppose I've done it myself) but it has always seemed natural and unforced-- *far* less contrived than the example you gave.

 

Meanwhile OP, you should read the threads on here. Women often are falling for men who aren't rich, good-looking, and who aren't PUAs and who hardly have Game.

 

As far as approaching women, just say something. Observe and comment. It has gotten me plenty of dates. Some women will be receptive some will not. If PUAs seem to be more successful it is because they are putting themselves out there and not because of their Routine Stack.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Imajerk17

[lana-banana]

Of course it doesn't work. The entire PUA phenomenon is to dating what paint-by-numbers is to art: it's an insincere, unnatural attempt to replicate an organic result. I have been targeted by pick-up artists before (you can always tell, always) and it feels so uncomfortable. You can tell that the man is so totally unable to relate with women that he's basically play-acting.

 

Dating is not a D&D encounter. It is not a mathematical formula in which you fulfill X, Y, Z in order to receive sex. It's a human connection and it's not something you can fake. If you want to succeed with a woman, treat her like a person.

[Bastile]

I have been targeted by pick-up artists before (you can always tell, always)

 

hahahaha

 

 

Last year, I had a girlfriend who snooped through my devices. (This is normal, and I blame myself for not being careful enough).

 

She went through my Youtube history and found all kinds of videos.

 

This was a shock to her. She actually couldn't comprehend it properly with the image that she has of me. The final rationalization was "you are inquisitive about life, and naturally inquisitive about women too".

 

Here's the rub. Pua is about social skills. Picking up women cold is perhaps the most difficult social skill to perform. It is incredibly nuanced, and anyone that says otherwise never tried it.

 

Okay, so if you are coming across as a "pick up artist", then you are doing it wrong.

 

And I thoroughly believe that women simply can't accept that a man uses any sort of method on them. On some level, they need to believe that what you are doing is completely in the moment. Even if that is (as in my case above, and often) a rationalization on their part. It is needed in a set.

 

Hide your ****. Don't break the fourth wall as standard (I went on a spree of this before, and I'm telling you from experience). Allow them to believe in magic and fairies.

 

Law of power #30: make your accomplishments seem effortless

Your actions must seem natural. All the toil and practice that goes into them, and also all the clever tricks, must be concealed. Avoid the temptation of revealing how you work... it only raises questions. Teach no-one your tricks, or they will be used against you.

 

I suggest you check out my thread "rejection". Where I came to that conclusion.

 

Provide the actual product to a woman. Not the culminations of work and toil to get there. Don't expect your sacrifice to be understood. Merely appreciated in the moment.

[SevenCity]

Funny how every single woman here says it doesn't work.

 

Fact is, if you can spot it they are not doing it right.

 

I have not done PUA myself but it sure seems to work for a lot of guys.

[Imajerk17]

This topic actually comes up on this forum time and time again. As someone who was bad with women growing up and then who got much better, I can tell you my perspective.

 

If you are a guy who struggles to get a woman interested in you, then indeed you do have things to work on. The big thing you need to be working on is learning how the Mating Dance works, how men and women interact socially, ect and learning how to project masculine energy.

 

The idea that a well-polished "routine stack" (which is a huge part of PUA) can save a guy who is diffident and is always projecting nervousness, is just laughable.

 

Meanwhile, my experience is that women hardly even get the point of Game. Read the threads on here about women crazy about some guy who is clearly "unsmooth". Meanwhile, look at couples in the real world where the woman seems crazy for the guy. How often is the guy a PUA? Yeah, exactly. Even in the PUA "infield" videos, the guy won at the end usually not because his polish won over her resistance, but because he got the right mix of persistence without being a creep or an azz.

 

Here is the thing: The PUA Community that was so big a decade ago has dissolved and disbanded. Former PUAs who got really good (not because of their "routine stack" but instead because of their confidence) left The Game and now say how dumb it is. What gave them their success with women, by the way, was that they were willing to put themselves out there and they gained confidence from that.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Imajerk17

[robaday]

I'll chime in too. It does work to an extent yes, not to the letter but there are elements that can help. Think of that friend of yours who has always picked up women? You go to a bar with him and he leaves early with someone. You go for a coffee with him and he has the waitress's undivided attention?

 

Notice what he does. How he acts. When I was young I was shy, decent looking but terrible in social situations. I thought if I was simply nice to a woman and bought her a drink then she should like me. I had friends who would make rude jokes, would tease them, would act cocky and never buy drinks, and they would be the ones getting womens numbers. I could never figure it out it did not make sense.

 

The game simply takes examples like those guys that everyone knows and tried to teach those methods to people who struggle to act confident around beautiful women. All it really boils down to is confidence, there are numerous tricks and whatever that they suggest but in a nutshell its being able to talk to women like you are on the same level as them - not putting them on a pedestal, not playing power dynamics like blowing a load of cash on a date and expecting something in return - just being a confident guy.

 

Yes there are a lot of weird things in that community. But at its heart its simply trying to give guys who have suffered from debilitating confidence issues a chance to live a normal life.

[todreaminblue]

Funny how every single woman here says it doesn't work.

 

Fact is, if you can spot it they are not doing it right.

 

I have not done PUA myself but it sure seems to work for a lot of guys.

 

 

maybe because women dont wont a pick up artist as a bf......

ive been conned wanting to believe the best in a guy and the truth is pick up artistry is disingenuous ...its actually quite selfish as an art form ...full of guile......

pick up artistry is not normally about the love for one woman or wanting to know one woman but many....its a con and no one likes to be conned especially in the love arena......

 

that's why women say they dont like it.....they know when someone is using pua...because they dislike it..being conned is heartbreaking stuff....shameful and degrading...what serious woman doesnt want a ingenuous man not on the con.....deb

[lana-banana]

hahahaha

 

 

Last year, I had a girlfriend who snooped through my devices. (This is normal, and I blame myself for not being careful enough).

 

She went through my Youtube history and found all kinds of videos.

 

This was a shock to her. She actually couldn't comprehend it properly with the image that she has of me. The final rationalization was "you are inquisitive about life, and naturally inquisitive about women too".

 

Here's the rub. Pua is about social skills. Picking up women cold is perhaps the most difficult social skill to perform. It is incredibly nuanced, and anyone that says otherwise never tried it.

 

Okay, so if you are coming across as a "pick up artist", then you are doing it wrong.

 

And I thoroughly believe that women simply can't accept that a man uses any sort of method on them. On some level, they need to believe that what you are doing is completely in the moment. Even if that is (as in my case above, and often) a rationalization on their part. It is needed in a set.

 

Hide your ****. Don't break the fourth wall as standard (I went on a spree of this before, and I'm telling you from experience). Allow them to believe in magic and fairies.

 

Law of power #30: make your accomplishments seem effortless

Your actions must seem natural. All the toil and practice that goes into them, and also all the clever tricks, must be concealed. Avoid the temptation of revealing how you work... it only raises questions. Teach no-one your tricks, or they will be used against you.

 

I suggest you check out my thread "rejection". Where I came to that conclusion.

 

Provide the actual product to a woman. Not the culminations of work and toil to get there. Don't expect your sacrifice to be understood. Merely appreciated in the moment.

 

Or maybe just, y'know, show interest in women as individual people and make engaging and thoughtful conversation?

 

Talking to women is not difficult. If you have something interesting and smart to say, someone will want to hear it.

[littleblackheart]

Funny how every single woman here says it doesn't work.

 

Sure it works; for a laugh, for a fling or on vulnerable or too trusty women. I could be wrong, but I'm not sure 'pick-up artistry' is geared towards finding a stable, healthy, long-term relationship.

[Redhead14]

I think it does work if you're not looking for a relationship and it's just sex/very casual. However, the "type" of woman that a PUA gets, is in the category of, let's say, "low hanging fruit" -- desperate women, women who have weak boundaries, or women who aren't looking for a relationship (which is fine if that's what they want).

 

But, if you're seeking a relationship and using PUA tactics, a woman who is strong, secure, smart, independent doesn't jump into things. She may be charmed, but she will sit back a little and observe how the man dates her for a bit. Pick up artists will show their "true" colors by their actions soon enough.

 

If you're seeking a relationship and using PUA and relationship develops, the PUA may find that he is in a relationship with a woman who isn't relationship material . . .

[lana-banana]

maybe because women dont wont a pick up artist as a bf......

ive been conned wanting to believe the best in a guy and the truth is pick up artistry is disingenuous ...its actually quite selfish as an art form ...full of guile......

pick up artistry is not normally about the love for one woman or wanting to know one woman but many....its a con and no one likes to be conned especially in the love arena......

 

that's why women say they dont like it.....they know when someone is using pua...because they dislike it..being conned is heartbreaking stuff....shameful and degrading...what serious woman doesnt want a ingenuous man not on the con.....deb

 

Bingo. Pick-up techniques "work" in the same way that duct taping a broken car mirror "works". Everyone can see you're doing it, a lot of people will find it trashy and embarrassing, but it might get the job done.

 

There is not a woman alive who is unaware of pick-up methods when they happen. It's just a matter of whether she's OK with it.

[SammySammy]

It's not unique to PUA. This is a common sales technique that is widely known. Getting someone to do you a tiny favor greatly increases the chances that they will agree to a larger, subsequent request. It's an ice-breaker of sorts, removes a barrier, establishes a pattern of interaction, agreeableness, compliance.

 

A similar closing technique (these have names but I don't remember them) that definitely works is to ask several questions in succession that have obviously affirmative answers... then comes the closer, and they answer is likely to be yes.

 

Another... when the sales process and prospect are at the right point (desire established, objections removed), rather than overly asking for the decision (an opportunity to say no), a salesman may ask a question that implies that the decision has already been made, affirmatively of course. Would you like us to replace the standard floor mats with premium at no extra charge? Or, do you prefer the red or blue ribbon?

 

All of these ploys will move a motivated, unaware past mental/emotional barriers without them noticing. Everyone should read a book on salesmanship so that you can't be easily manipulated by standard techniques and smooth delivery. As much as people like to discount PUA stuff as baloney, it's really just proven sales techniques applied in a different context. The fact that you find it distasteful is unrelated to whether or not it will work.

 

^^^This.

 

Get to the first yes.

 

My study of pickup coincided with the beginning of my sales career. Someone suggested they were closely related. They are. Persuasion is persuasion. Gamesmanship is salesmannship. You're selling yourself. Or a dream. A fantasy. The bottom line is you're selling.

 

The key is to understand the entire process. Preselection. Open. Presentation. Close. Follow through. Once you know and understand the entire process, you can adapt to your own style without relying on specific pickup techniques that seem gimmicky. Any technique is part of a process and may or may not be helpful depending on the situation. Things "work" in general, but nothing "always" works. You have to be situationally aware.

 

Most of the best salespeople get to a point where they just talk to people. It just flows. There's no reliance on having to do this or that gimmick or technique. It's just communication. That leads to a desired result. Preferably beneficial to both parties.

 

Game or pick up is much the same. Don't let anybody tell you it doesn't work. It works every day. All over the world. It's just a matter of how well you do it. How well you listen and pay attention. How well you communicate. And how well you can be and deliver what a person may want.

[elaine567]

I think it does work if you're not looking for a relationship and it's just sex/very casual. However, the "type" of woman that a PUA gets, is in the category of, let's say, "low hanging fruit" -- desperate women, women who have weak boundaries, or women who aren't looking for a relationship (which is fine if that's what they want).

 

I agree, add in the hurt, the vulnerable, the young, the naive, the "wounded animals" and yes, it all can work. Manipulation which is at the core of PUA and like techniques WILL work on the unwary

 

I think some men are actually out looking for "victims" to hold power over and to control, and PUA helps them do that, but it is hardly the sign of a quality man with integrity, it is usually the sign of the weak, the devious, the socially inadequate, the users and abusers and can be the sign of a personality disorder too.

[SammySammy]

I agree, add in the hurt, the vulnerable, the young, the naive, the "wounded animals" and yes, it all can work. Manipulation which is at the core of PUA and like techniques WILL work on the unwary

 

I think some men are actually out looking for "victims" to hold power over and to control, and PUA helps them do that, but it is hardly the sign of a quality man with integrity, it is usually the sign of the weak, the devious, the socially inadequate, the users and abusers and can be the sign of a personality disorder too.

 

You know ... when I graduated from college and started my career I was really bad at sales. Horrible at it. Yet, my first job was a sales job. I had to learn, study, and practice to get better. I didn't really get better until an outstanding salesperson took me under his wing and taught me.

 

To suggest that - because I had to learn the process - I'm somehow a bad person that only preys on the weak is ludicrous. An abuser with a personality disorder that can only sell to the young, naive, and unwary. Victimizing the helpless. It's a ridiculous notion that makes no sense.

 

Likewise, if you look at the audience of most of those PUA videos, most of those guys seem to be normal guys. Guys that simply want a girlfriend or a wife. They are not inherently bad and the women they end up with will not be inherently flawed.

 

It's just not true.

 

I've never needed pick up. For some reason, some women have always liked me. I've never really had to do a whole lot to be with one. Only studied pick up because a coworker suggested it was similar to sales. Took what was useful. Left the rest. However, if I did need it, that would in no way determine my character or mental stability.

 

Seduction can be learned. It can be practiced and even mastered. By men and women. While some can use it maliciously, for most it's merely a tool to get what many of us want - love and companionship. Nothing more than a tool. Despite the way those with an agenda try to portray it.

[elaine567]

You know ... when I graduated from college and started my career I was really bad at sales. Horrible at it. Yet, my first job was a sales job. I had to learn, study, and practice to get better. I didn't really get better until an outstanding salesperson took me under his wing and taught me.

 

To suggest that - because I had to learn the process - I'm somehow a bad person that only preys on the weak is ludicrous. An abuser with a personality disorder that can only sell to the young, naive, and unwary. Victimizing the helpless. It's a ridiculous notion that makes no sense.

 

OK but sales is all about selling stuff to often weak and naive people who do not really want it, can't really afford it, do not really need it but with the guile of the salesperson, they are convinced to buy it for probably more than it's worth...

[SammySammy]

OK but sales is all about selling stuff to often weak and naive people who do not really want it, can't really afford it, do not really need it but with the guile of the salesperson, they are convinced to buy it for probably more than it's worth...

 

Wrong.

 

Sales is about finding solutions and filling needs. That's what the most successful salespeople do. Letting people decide to buy rather than pushing anything on anyone.

 

I offer an outstanding product. With great service. People come to me with what they want. I give them what they want.

 

In business ... and my personal life.