"Their marriage was on the rocks" [as an affair reason]

[aileD]

Or

"Their marriage has been bad for awhile"

 

"Their marriage was dead"

 

"They had a really bad marriage"

 

Often times phrases like these are used by the AP when talking about their affair with a married person. Like somehow if that's said (and even if it's true), that it somehow makes the affair less damaging.

 

I wish people would stop using these EXCUSES. It doesn't matter if the marriage was rocky, bad, dead, etc.......it's still a MARRIAGE. Nothing makes it ok for someone to come between a married couple, even one on the rocks.

 

Same goes for MM. bad marriage isn't an excuse to cheat.

[Just a Guy]

Hi aile, you are absolutely right. However, this line has been used by couples contemplating an open marriage and some( a small minority) have said that opening their marriage saved it. Usually though, if a marriage is on the rocks then opening it up up spells the death knell for it. Cheating in a rocky marriage is a poor second cousin of opening up the marriage and of course, is even more likely to derail it completely because of the deceit element. Just some thoughts. Warm wishes.

[aileD]

Hi aile, you are absolutely right. However, this line has been used by couples contemplating an open marriage and some( a small minority) have said that opening their marriage saved it. Usually though, if a marriage is on the rocks then opening it up up spells the death knell for it. Cheating in a rocky marriage is a poor second cousin of opening up the marriage and of course, is even more likely to derail it completely because of the deceit element. Just some thoughts. Warm wishes.

 

Opening a marriage is a decision two MARRIED people make together where any potential "extra partner" would be approved by and have some type of relationship/friendship with the spouse of the person they're with

 

That's entirely different from cheating where one spouse is left in the dark and the AP (and of course mm) knows that they are deceiving and coming in the middle of a MARRIAGE.

 

Just cuz someone says they have a. Ad marriage doesn't make it okay to jump into it.

 

I work at a bank, if someone tells me they have $1000 in their account and want to withdraw it, I don't just give them. I need to verify its true first.

Edited September 21, 2017 by aileD

[wmacbride]

Or

"Their marriage has been bad for awhile"

 

"Their marriage was dead"

 

"They had a really bad marriage"

 

Often times phrases like these are used by the AP when talking about their affair with a married person. Like somehow if that's said (and even if it's true), that it somehow makes the affair less damaging.

 

I wish people would stop using these EXCUSES. It doesn't matter if the marriage was rocky, bad, dead, etc.......it's still a MARRIAGE. Nothing makes it ok for someone to come between a married couple, even one on the rocks.

 

Same goes for MM. bad marriage isn't an excuse to cheat.

 

 

When someone makes an excuse like that, it says to me that, deep down inside, they feel what they are doing is wrong. If you are pleased with your behavior and think it's a-okay, you don't need to excuse it.

 

I have seen a few men and women who were very upfront and even pleased that they are an ow or om. While I find their behavior abhorrent, at least they are being honest with themselves about it.

[wmacbride]

It is impossible to take an assertion like this at face value.

 

Sure, when one uses logic, it wouldn't make sense for someone to cheat unless their marriage was bad and " on the rocks" anyway. The problem with that reasoning is that emotions seldom follow logic.

 

If a man or woman is a serial cheater, then all bets are off. Their bs may feel the marriage is going along fine, and deep down, so does the ws. They just want a little "extra", and if they have to lie to get it, so be it.

 

After all,w hat is more sympathetic to a potential ow or om with a kind heart that a poor ws who is being put upon by their big, bad bs. A few tears, a few attempts at looking pitiful, and an ow or om who is a "fixer" and feels pitty and a desire to help will be reeled in, hook line and sinker.

[Ahurtgirl]

Your spouse made that choice. Some situations aren't between two AP's that are both in bad marriages. Some APs are single, some are in open marriages, for instance my exhusband knew I was involved with a married man and supported it because we both felt the married man wanted to be with me as exMM future faked very well. He made me believe he was leaving his marriage and since my exhusband was gay, it was helpful to him to know I had someone there for me that was seeking a future with me (or so I thought).

You don't know the lies your spouse told the AP. Your spouse is making it look like he is more innocent than he is with what he tells you or even the texts, emails you may have read between them. My exMM would delete the initiating texts and emails and only show his wife what I had written to make it look like I had pursued most of the relationship. True narcissist character.

This site is a great place to vent and get through your anger and hurt but realize everyone here has a variety of perspectives based on what their personal experience was. Once you get past the emotions you can begin to see how there is a multitude of reasons why it happened. The sooner you can focus on recovery and healing your marriage, forgiving your spouse and his AP, the better chance your marriage has of surviving infidelity. If you hold this over his head or the APS head, it could ruin the chance of reconciliation and potentially drive him back to his AP.

[Starswillshine]

The things people tell themselves or believe to justify their actions.

 

I never understand how APs are so willing to believe what a MM/MW say. As if it is truth. As if they aren't lying to the person they promised to love and honor for rest of their lives and obviously MM/MW is a honest person. /sarcasm

 

The AP starts to cling onto all these lies and promises. Makes the BS the bad guy, the enemy, all to make what they are doing justifiable.

 

Married guy making a move on someone else.... super sleazeball. Unfortunately, I married such a man and built a life with him over 2 decades... I didn't have the knowledge that the OW had... the he is a cheating sleazeball. Had I been that person, no freaking way. I would have never allowed myself to fall for someone like that. I wouldn't have even been attracted. Gross.

[wmacbride]

Your spouse made that choice. Some situations aren't between two AP's that are both in bad marriages. Some APs are single, some are in open marriages, for instance my exhusband knew I was involved with a married man and supported it because we both felt the married man wanted to be with me as exMM future faked very well. He made me believe he was leaving his marriage and since my exhusband was gay, it was helpful to him to know I had someone there for me that was seeking a future with me (or so I thought).

You don't know the lies your spouse told the AP. Your spouse is making it look like he is more innocent than he is with what he tells you or even the texts, emails you may have read between them. My exMM would delete the initiating texts and emails and only show his wife what I had written to make it look like I had pursued most of the relationship. True narcissist character.

This site is a great place to vent and get through your anger and hurt but realize everyone here has a variety of perspectives based on what their personal experience was. Once you get past the emotions you can begin to see how there is a multitude of reasons why it happened. The sooner you can focus on recovery and healing your marriage, forgiving your spouse and his AP, the better chance your marriage has of surviving infidelity. If you hold this over his head or the APS head, it could ruin the chance of reconciliation and potentially drive him back to his AP.

 

I think the thread is rhetorical and not necessarily about the op's own situation.

[knabe]

Here's the deal:

 

A good person doesn't involve themselves in someone else's relationship. So "their marriage was bad" isn't an excuse.

 

That's like saying it was okay to rob someone because "their purse was open" or "their door was unlocked."

 

Let's just own it: when you sleep with someone else's spouse, it is wrong, you ARE culpable, and there is no excuse.

[BluEyeL]

They have to rationalize their bad/dishonest behavior somehow. Nobody will admit they're a bad person. Not even criminals.

[Just a Guy]

Hi aileD, guess I did not pick up on the cues in your OP. I thought you were initiating a generic discussion on a bad marriage being used as justification for an affair. Apparently, you had more personal reasons for posting your OP as in that it pertained specifically to infidelity in your own marriage( I hope I am getting this correct). My response to your OP was a very generic one and so I guess it did not address your concerns.

 

I think ahurtgirl is spot on with her analysis of the phenomenon. At a fundamental level a WS and an AP ate both equally responsible for an affair. Whether a WS marriage is in a bad place or not he/she opens himself/herself up to the predatory advances of a would be AP. My point about couples stating that their marriage was in a bad place and so they decided to open it in the hope of saving it was that at a superficial level, the reasoning was the same as what a WS and AP use to justify their tryst. Of course the major difference is that the former involves a consensual decision by both the partners in a marriage. The latter is a unilateral decision by the WS keeping his/her BS out of the picture. If anything an affair is an open marriage where the BS is an unwitting co-optee.

 

I hope this clarifies my reasoning in my previous post. Warm wishes.

[dichotomy]

When details of my wife wild single time came to light after we married - I was upset she had been involved with two MM. (She continued an EA with one while with me - but thats a different story).

 

Anyway when arguing about her lack of regret with this one MM she said " I was single - he was unhappily married... so it was not really that bad of me or him". Visibility upset I turned to her and said "so if I was ever unhappy with OUR marriage it would be fine for me to cheat on you ?!" Her face turned white and she did not know how to respond.

 

Sucks when your held to your own lame excuses.

 

After that - she had a few times where she was paranoid/worried I was cheating ... but I did not mind her experiencing that from the other side. I think it helped her grow a bit.

Edited September 21, 2017 by dichotomy

[Whoknew30]

That was my "motive" for my A as the WS. My marriage was truly in a bad place & I was using the A as a exit strategie for sure. I'm not defending my wrong doing bc I definitely made the wrong choice but in my personal situation, the AP didn't cause the issues that already existed.

 

We're all different, I wouldn't have had an A had I not been ready to divorce & I did tell OM that & made it clear that if i did get divorced, it was not bc of him & there was no promise that I'd be with him. So I'm sure it took away from his personal guilt of him being the reason for the break up of my marriage, had that occurred.

 

Which is probably why it's said...AP are listening & believing the same lying WS as the BS.

[knabe]

True. And then there's the "I am not married to her/him (the BS), so I have no responsibility. The WS is the ones who is wrong.

 

That doesn't wash either. Let's say I give my fiance a large gift. I gave that/promised that to him. Then I meet someone and decide, without his knowledge, to take that item and give it to someone else. If that person knows it isn't mine to give and they take it anyway....that says something about THEIR character, and it isn't anything good.

 

Some things just ARE, no matter how you try to twist them. This is one of them.

[Whoknew30]

True. And then there's the "I am not married to her/him (the BS), so I have no responsibility. The WS is the ones who is wrong.

 

That doesn't wash either. Let's say I give my fiance a large gift. I gave that/promised that to him. Then I meet someone and decide, without his knowledge, to take that item and give it to someone else. If that person knows it isn't mine to give and they take it anyway....that says something about THEIR character, and it isn't anything good.

 

Some things just ARE, no matter how you try to twist them. This is one of them.

 

I just never thought this way of my H OW...I believe she fell for him, as I did & he lied to her. No one can take another adult from you, they go freely. Marriage isn't ownership. I think the problem is people are more comfortable talking about a spouse as a tangible item vs a actual person.

 

A marriage is everyday working on it, not "I married you, now I own you". That's kind of mentality can cause a lot of issues in a marriage & a lot of issues opens the door to divorce...wether an A happens or not.

 

People are weak when it comes to love (doesn't make it right) it's just reality & every & any human is capable of betrayal. I've known pretty that have had A that aren't "bad" people...they just got caught up & weak.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Whoknew30
Spell check

[knabe]

I just never thought this way of my H OW...I believe she fell for him, as I did & he lied to her. No one can take another adult from you, they go freely. Marriage isn't ownership. I think the problem is people are more comfortable talking about a spouse as a tangible item vs a actual person.

 

A marriage is everyday working on it, not "I married you, now I own you". That's kind of mentality can cause a lot of issues in a marriage & a lot of issues opens the door to divorce...wether an A happens or not.

 

People are weak when it comes to love (doesn't make it right) it's just reality & every & any human is capable of betrayal. I've known pretty that have had A that aren't "bad" people...they just got caught up & weak.

 

Nah...it's not about ownership. It's about promises and character. If you have character, you don't mess with someone else's spouse. Unless you literally fell in love with them helplessly the millisecond you saw them.....it was a choice. A choice to take a step toward someone who already has a spouse.

[DKT3]

While I 100% believe that the poor state of a Marriage can make one more open, it's not an excuse for a personal choice to be unfaithful.

 

My marriage was in bad shape, my wife was unhappy and she cheated. The thing is I was unhappy but didn't. After reflection and honest examination of our relationship her cheating shouldn't have been a shock. Not really the point, point is we we're both unhappy, so if unhappiness was the catylast why does one cheat and the other don't? Because it comes down to personal responsibility and choice. She wanted to cheat and I didn't, period.

[Whoknew30]

While I 100% believe that the poor state of a Marriage can make one more open, it's not an excuse for a personal choice to be unfaithful.

 

My marriage was in bad shape, my wife was unhappy and she cheated. The thing is I was unhappy but didn't. After reflection and honest examination of our relationship her cheating shouldn't have been a shock. Not really the point, point is we we're both unhappy, so if unhappiness was the catylast why does one cheat and the other don't? Because it comes down to personal responsibility and choice. She wanted to cheat and I didn't, period.

 

I agree & she can't blame her OM for making that choice...I'm not stating that a BS should bc best friend's with the AP, I understand not liking them but they can not be blamed for the WS choice. A WS made a 100% free will choice to sleep or go with that person...the WS is never "stolen".

[Whoknew30]

Nah...it's not about ownership. It's about promises and character. If you have character, you don't mess with someone else's spouse. Unless you literally fell in love with them helplessly the millisecond you saw them.....it was a choice. A choice to take a step toward someone who already has a spouse.

 

Well that's my point. If a WS has an affair, it's their choice. They were not "stolen", unless kidnapped. Every adult has free choice...so I agree a AP made a choice not to care about the WS marriage & it's wrong but that door would never have been open if the WS didn't go freely to them...now let's add lying. If you like someone & they're telling you their marriage is pretty much over...how would a AP know what the truth is? Who are the to ask? I just think this logic gives way too much power to a AP & kind of takes the blame off the WS, as they had no choice in the matter.

[Birdies]

While I 100% believe that the poor state of a Marriage can make one more open, it's not an excuse for a personal choice to be unfaithful.

 

My marriage was in bad shape, my wife was unhappy and she cheated. The thing is I was unhappy but didn't. After reflection and honest examination of our relationship her cheating shouldn't have been a shock. Not really the point, point is we we're both unhappy, so if unhappiness was the catylast why does one cheat and the other don't? Because it comes down to personal responsibility and choice. She wanted to cheat and I didn't, period.

 

I thought you had an EA also?

 

Which leads me to a question for the group (unrelated to DKT3) - what are out thoughts when the marriage is bad in part because the betrayed spouse had previously cheated on the wayward spouse and it had been rugswept?

 

Generally I think nothing can justify an affair, and in this case, it's almost worse because the cheating spouse knows the pain of being cheated on and does it anyway. But I think this situation does illustrate how damaged marriages can become due to both spouses' actions, until they are hardly a marriage at all anymore.

[DKT3]

I thought you had an EA also?

 

Which leads me to a question for the group (unrelated to DKT3) - what are out thoughts when the marriage is bad in part because the betrayed spouse had previously cheated on the wayward spouse and it had been rugswept?

 

Generally I think nothing can justify an affair, and in this case, it's almost worse because the cheating spouse knows the pain of being cheated on and does it anyway. But I think this situation does illustrate how damaged marriages can become due to both spouses' actions, until they are hardly a marriage at all anymore.

 

I don't normally respond to this question, but since it's on topic in this situation I will.

 

Technically, no I wasn't involved in an EA. I wasn't in a relationship and neither was the other woman. Wife and I divorced, years later got back together. She was pregnant. I received an offer for a career change in another State. My my girlfriend (ex wife and currently married) refused to go without being married, understandable. I mean, it was alot, she owns her own business. I moved she ended our relationship ( technically) it was at this point my involvement with this other woman happened. Both women were fully aware of what was going on. Technically, not an affair... inappropriate maybe. I felt guilty for putting both in that situation.

[pheonixrisen]

The things people tell themselves or believe to justify their actions.

 

I never understand how APs are so willing to believe what a MM/MW say. As if it is truth. As if they aren't lying to the person they promised to love and honor for rest of their lives and obviously MM/MW is a honest person. /sarcasm

 

The AP starts to cling onto all these lies and promises. Makes the BS the bad guy, the enemy, all to make what they are doing justifiable.

 

Married guy making a move on someone else.... super sleazeball. Unfortunately, I married such a man and built a life with him over 2 decades... I didn't have the knowledge that the OW had... the he is a cheating sleazeball. Had I been that person, no freaking way. I would have never allowed myself to fall for someone like that. I wouldn't have even been attracted. Gross.

 

I agree

 

And i also believe ow/om should take responsibility for choices they made to put them selves in this misery .

 

They chose to believe

They chose to participate

And they chose to co- direct their whole affair saga

 

There is a reason most affairs come to a head when bs finds out ..we don't participate or encourage or look the other way or make our selves believe ow does not exist ...while ow happily plays status quo ignoring a wife exist .we take a stand .and tell him he is an ******* and his behaviour is not acceptable.

 

I also believe most ow are living very lonely lives (even if they are surrounded by people )and require validation ..healthy or unhealthy they don't care they are desperate to belong to someone to something...this desperacy becomes the mother of all invention ...in swoops the mm with all his lies and they want to play the rescuer ...it makes them feel imp to be part of something ...they are willing to believe anything /cross boundaries thier is no sense of self preservation .......after a while they loose them selves make mm their whole lives they cut themselves out from friends and family who are against thier actions ...and then they don't know who they have become ...they enter the cycle of waiting and few hours of happiness ...major holidays/ new years/ Christmas pass them by..the same mm who claimed to have a **** of a home life keeps postponing to leave ... they become miserable and they require someone to blame ...they love the mm ...so it's the wife to blame ...who is now forcing him to stay ...who is in actuality living her life with probably no clue an affair is ongoing.or an ow even exist till Dday.

[Minnie09]

While I 100% believe that the poor state of a Marriage can make one more open, it's not an excuse for a personal choice to be unfaithful.

 

My marriage was in bad shape, my wife was unhappy and she cheated. The thing is I was unhappy but didn't. After reflection and honest examination of our relationship her cheating shouldn't have been a shock. Not really the point, point is we we're both unhappy, so if unhappiness was the catylast why does one cheat and the other don't? Because it comes down to personal responsibility and choice. She wanted to cheat and I didn't, period.

 

With all due respect, but I don't buy it. She cheated because she had an opportunity, and you didn't, because you didn't have an opportunity. That's the end of it.

[pheonixrisen]

With all due respect, but I don't buy it. She cheated because she had an opportunity, and you didn't, because you didn't have an opportunity. That's the end of it.

 

What is it you don't buy ?

 

That thier are people who actually may have oppourtunity but choose not to cheat .while other do .

 

Because I am one of them ...i have plenty oppourtunity but I would not cheat.if I am that unhappy I would leave first .It's choices we make .

[DKT3]

With all due respect, but I don't buy it. She cheated because she had an opportunity, and you didn't, because you didn't have an opportunity. That's the end of it.

 

Oh, I had opportunities. I traveled for work, and had tons of opportunities all the way back to college when women threw themselves at me for being a fairly high profile football player.

 

No need to have you buy it, my wife posts and reads here, if I'm being dishonest, I'm sure she would point it out.