"Their marriage was on the rocks" [as an affair reason]

[wmacbride]

Why? Because it's not your marriage to value or not.. There's a BOUNDARY there that should be respected even if one of the people in the marriage isn't treating it well. It's their bad marriage to figure out. It's their -both of them- problem to decide to divorce or not. It's none of anyone else's business to get involved in something that isn't yours regardless of who tries to pull you in.

 

 

Along with this, there is absolute no way any other woman or man can ever know the whole working of someone's marriage. They have no idea what role the the ws has played int he breakdown of the marriage, or if the marriage has actually even broken down at all.

 

I understand trying to gloss over negatives about a person when you care about them. We all do it, but it's quite naive, and I would even add quite a display of hubris, for an ow or om to assume that a ws is telling the 100 truth about the state of their marriage.

 

The reason for this? ( and this is just my opinion) most ow and om are decent people who have no desire to hurt anyone. For example, how many men or women would find it attractive if a married person, who has lots of positive things to say about their husband or wife and then starts hitting on them?

 

Most wouldn't want to, and even if they did, it would likley be in the back of their mind that they are contributing to the pain someone else, especially someone who has done absolutely nothing to them and may well be someone they don't even know. i just can see how anyone could feel good about that.

 

My belief is that this is why most ws "fib" or outright lie about their home life. The ow or om has to, in some way, square the knowledge that they are playing a huge role in hurting another human being who probably did nothing to deserve it with the fact that they have feelings for their spouse. It makes it easier to believe they are a bad person, are "bat sh@t crazy" or in some way, shape or form, did something to deserve it.

 

It's like most bs aren't sitting around, happy that the ow or om got hurt when the affair ended ( I know, I know, some do...but most of us don't). In fact, there are lots of stories of bs who actively tried to help the ow or om when the affair ends. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least four posters on here who did. I remember thinking that I was furious with the ow in my situation, but at the same time, I couldn't help but feel bad for her and try to help her. I expect she was hurt too, even though their affair was very brief.

 

This is why I always find the hyperbole about the big, bad bs to be both sad and in a sick way, almost amusing. An illustration of that is when a friend of mine found out her husband had been having a long affair, and she ended up, after a whole lots of crud, going out for coffee with the ow ( she's a stronger person than I am, that's for sure). Turns out, they had both been fed some pretty big lies. Once they met and actually saw how much manure he'd been spreading, I think it came as a shock. He'd portrayed his wife as some sort of harridan woman who let herself go as soon as she said "I do" and was only out to wreck his good times, while he painted the ow as a needy, clingy woman who had chased him all over until he had to relent. Of course, neither characterization was accurate.

 

It was a real eye opener for both. It's easy to hurt someone when you don;t know them. It's much more difficult when you see them as a human being, just like you, who really isn't so bad after all.

 

The good news is that they took a page from the Art of War ( the enemy of my enemy is my friend) and were able to support each other so they could both get away from him. After that, they never really spoke again.

[cocorico]

Maybe, but it seems to me that many married people hide the fact they are "acting like a single", from their spouse

 

Perhaps. I've not personally witnessed that, but I'm sure there must be some who do just that. Which is why IMV no one should just take someone at their word. If they're "acting single" but still coupling up with their partner, that should be evident to their friends, colleagues, neighbours, extended family, etc. There are many sources of information out there. Do your research before you lose your heart to someone, I reckon. If they're acting single consistently and chronically in all facets of their life, they'll be happy to invite you to extended family gatherings, work events, take you out publicly, etc. You can gather info from many sources, and not just rely on one.

[cocorico]

Maybe, but it seems to me that many married people hide the fact they are "acting like a single", from their spouse

 

Perhaps. I've not personally witnessed that, but I'm sure from what be read on these boards there must be some who do just that. Which is why IMV no one should just take someone at their word. If they're "acting single" but still coupling up with their partner, that should be evident to their friends, colleagues, neighbours, extended family, etc.

 

There are many sources of information out there. Do your research before you lose your heart to someone, I reckon. If they're acting single consistently and chronically in all facets of their life, they'll be happy to invite you to extended family gatherings, work events, take you out publicly, etc. You can gather info from many sources, and not just rely on one.

[cocorico]

They have no idea what role the the ws has played int he breakdown of the marriage

 

I'm not sure this would be material to many (most?) OWs. The same way that the BS who reconciles takes the WS back based on the premise that the WS can change, so the OW hooks up with the WS on that same premise. That whatever led to the breakdown, whatever led to the WS opting for infidelity, the WS has the potential to overcome that and invest fully in a new, better, R.

 

And in some cases we're right, while others seem not to be so lucky. But without that faith in the ability to overcome, to change, no OW would invest in a R with a MM, and no BS would consider R. And while the specifics of who did what and what caused which are necessary for the WS to understand and move beyond, to a BS considering R or an AP contemplating a serious R with the WS, they're in and of themselves secondary to the consideration of whether or not the WS can "change".

[aileD]

That's just bizarre. If someone walks around telling me they're from planet Zog, and their name is Beezlezonk, and I'm to address them as Your Royal Highness Prince Beezlezonk of Zog, I'm not going to feed their delusion. I'm going to follow observable evidence and treat them as the human being they are. And if someone acts married, I'll treat them as married, whether they have the piece of paper or not. Likewise, if they act single, that's how I - and others - will treat them.

 

This isn't planet Zog. It's earth and everyone knows what marriage is

[wmacbride]

Perhaps. I've not personally witnessed that, but I'm sure there must be some who do just that. Which is why IMV no one should just take someone at their word. If they're "acting single" but still coupling up with their partner, that should be evident to their friends, colleagues, neighbours, extended family, etc. There are many sources of information out there. Do your research before you lose your heart to someone, I reckon. If they're acting single consistently and chronically in all facets of their life, they'll be happy to invite you to extended family gatherings, work events, take you out publicly, etc. You can gather info from many sources, and not just rely on one.

 

How about someone do this checking before they even get involve dint he first place. It could save a lot of heartbreak. With social media, it's not too difficult to find out what's going on behind the scenes in someone's life.

[wmacbride]

I'm not sure this would be material to many (most?) OWs. The same way that the BS who reconciles takes the WS back based on the premise that the WS can change, so the OW hooks up with the WS on that same premise. That whatever led to the breakdown, whatever led to the WS opting for infidelity, the WS has the potential to overcome that and invest fully in a new, better, R.

 

And in some cases we're right, while others seem not to be so lucky. But without that faith in the ability to overcome, to change, no OW would invest in a R with a MM, and no BS would consider R. And while the specifics of who did what and what caused which are necessary for the WS to understand and move beyond, to a BS considering R or an AP contemplating a serious R with the WS, they're in and of themselves secondary to the consideration of whether or not the WS can "change".

 

I'm not into tying my ind up into a pretzel to try and rationalize someone elses bad behavior.

 

Some things are just as they appear...bad behavior.

[cocorico]

How about someone do this checking before they even get involve dint he first place. It could save a lot of heartbreak. With social media, it's not too difficult to find out what's going on behind the scenes in someone's life.

 

I agree with this. I've always done it, and would advise anyone else to do the same.

[cocorico]

I'm not into tying my ind up into a pretzel to try and rationalize someone elses bad behavior.

 

Some things are just as they appear...bad behavior.

 

It's not about rationalising. I was just responding to your point, explaining that for many (if not most) OW it would not be a big issue.

[cocorico]

This isn't planet Zog. It's earth and everyone knows what marriage is

 

Clearly not. Or there wouldn't be a need for these boards.

[wmacbride]

It's not about rationalising. I was just responding to your point, explaining that for many (if not most) OW it would not be a big issue.

 

I'm sensing a bit of projection here, and i think it stems from the low value you place on marriage.

 

You may not feel bad that your spouse's wife got hurt when he cheated on her. It's quite obvious.

 

Taking yourself out of the equation, there are an awful lot of both ow and om who feel really bad that the bs is getting hurt. It's not enough to change their behavior, but it's still there.

[cocorico]

I'm sensing a bit of projection here, and i think it stems from the low value you place on marriage.

 

You may not feel bad that your spouse's wife got hurt when he cheated on her. It's quite obvious.

 

Taking yourself out of the equation, there are an awful lot of both ow and om who feel really bad that the bs is getting hurt. It's not enough to change their behavior, but it's still there.

 

I'm not sure how the above relates to what I posted? I pointed out that the contribution of the MM to the breakdown of the M may not be a dealbreaker for many OW, since they have faith that he would change in a R with them. Not sure how what you posted relates to that?

[wmacbride]

I agree with this. I've always done it, and would advise anyone else to do the same.

 

This something we can all agree on, for many reasons that go way beyond avoiding getting caught up in an affair.

[elaine567]

Perhaps. I've not personally witnessed that, but I'm sure from what be read on these boards there must be some who do just that. Which is why IMV no one should just take someone at their word. If they're "acting single" but still coupling up with their partner, that should be evident to their friends, colleagues, neighbours, extended family, etc.

 

There are many sources of information out there. Do your research before you lose your heart to someone, I reckon. If they're acting single consistently and chronically in all facets of their life, they'll be happy to invite you to extended family gatherings, work events, take you out publicly, etc. You can gather info from many sources, and not just rely on one.

 

Ok but what type of man would actually do that? A married man, parading his OW around like a prize turkey to his friends and family whilst the woman he made vows to, sits alone looking after his kids and his home no doubt?

Why would anyone think that that would be a man to get involved with?

[wmacbride]

I'm not sure how the above relates to what I posted? I pointed out that the contribution of the MM to the breakdown of the M may not be a dealbreaker for many OW, since they have faith that he would change in a R with them. Not sure how what you posted relates to that?

 

My fault. I misunderstood the point you were making.

 

That's a pretty bizarre line of reasoning. Whether or not someone is honest is not a function of the relationship they are in. It is a function of their personality, how they were raised, they morals and values system. these are at the fundamental core of a person's being and don't change easily. It takes a lot of work.

[elaine567]

I feel the mistake many make with cheaters is that they assume that the cheater is monogamous and I do not really believe for many that is the case.

Yes, they got married and some gave marriage a fair shot, but it got boring... so they revert to type.

 

The OW knows he is cheating but puts it down to the wrong woman, the wrong time, the wrong place... etc. with the right woman ie her, he will never feel the need to cheat.

 

The BS knows he is cheating, but that is not the "real" him, the "real" him would never cheat, never dream of cheating.

"If I can get us back to where we were, and away from HER, then he will not need to cheat."

 

Both are often wrong as cheating IS the "real" him, and given the opportunity...

[stillafool]

It's all about morals. Some people have none. I've had very attractive MM, who I felt immediate chemistry with hit on me. I've always swallowed what I felt and rejected them and walked away. I respect marriages too much to ever think I could do something like that to another woman. There is no such thing as "too weak"; when you care for more than just yourself, you can walk away. No excuses. People who steal from others deserve the punishment they get.

[aileD]

I feel the mistake many make with cheaters is that they assume that the cheater is monogamous and I do not really believe for many that is the case.

Yes, they got married and some gave marriage a fair shot, but it got boring... so they revert to type.

 

The OW knows he is cheating but puts it down to the wrong woman, the wrong time, the wrong place... etc. with the right woman ie her, he will never feel the need to cheat.

 

The BS knows he is cheating, but that is not the "real" him, the "real" him would never cheat, never dream of cheating.

"If I can get us back to where we were, and away from HER, then he will not need to cheat."

 

Both are often wrong as cheating IS the "real" him, and given the opportunity...

 

 

I would agree ..OW tend to forget that at one point MM felt strongly enough about BS to shop for a ring, ask her to marry him,plan a wedding and vow infrint of family friends and God to cherish them and be with them til dealth

 

The "he never wanted to marry her" excuse is most of the time just that..an excuse.

 

So no matter how strongly he feels about OW, he is still stepping out on a person he felt the same way for once so it's naive to believe he wouldn't be capable of it with OW.

[aileD]

It's all about morals. Some people have none. I've had very attractive MM, who I felt immediate chemistry with hit on me. I've always swallowed what I felt and rejected them and walked away. I respect marriages too much to ever think I could do something like that to another woman. There is no such thing as "too weak"; when you care for more than just yourself, you can walk away. No excuses. People who steal from others deserve the punishment they get.

 

Yes. Thank you. It doesn't matter if it's not "your marriage" to worry about. It's still a marriage and you're still hurting another human being by doing something you know is wrong but continuing to do it anyway

[aileD]

Their being married or not would matter little (if at all) to me; what matters to me is *how* married they are (i.e., what value *they* place on their R - not whether some piece of paper exists with their name on it).

 

Which in my opinion you can't determine what value someone places on something unless you ask them. BOTH OF THEM.

 

In your case, you only asked MM. Clearly his wife did not agree as you've said many times. That's a conflict in THEIR MARRIAGE. You should have said "not my circus not my monkeys, call me when you both are on the same page about your relationship."

 

Instead you only cared about what YOU wanted and what MM said about his marriage and how he paraded you around.

[knabe]

Allie D it really is easy. Someone with character doesn't involve themselves in cheating - WS or AP. Someone who does will always try to justify it. And because admitting it's wrong means admitting THEY did something wrong....they will never admit it.