This article totally nailed it: Why are good men so hard to find?

[Springsummer]

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/why-are-good-men-so-hard-to-find/article36365252/

 

Spend a little time with single women in their early to mid-30s, and you'll be grateful you're not one of them. The relationship scene is even more dismal today than when I was their age. All the women want serious relationships that lead to marriage, but many of the men they meet do not. All too often a woman moves in with some guy, hoping they're on the road to somewhere. Two years later, he tells her he's not ready for marriage and kids just yet. Splat.

 

But wait. Hasn't online dating made the mating market easier? Yes – for men. If you really want to hear a woman rant, just utter the word Tinder.

 

Single women are more equal and empowered than ever before. They have unparalleled sexual, reproductive and economic autonomy. In many ways, they're doing much better than the men. (Just look at the lopsided university graduation rates, which are now around 60-40). And yet, large numbers of young women admit their private lives are a sad mess.

 

If you're a gender studies major, stop reading here. You're going to hate what I've got to say next. I don't like it much myself.

 

In a nutshell, over the past few decades, the traditional relationship exchange has broken down. It used to be that men and women each had something the other really needed. Men needed access to sex. Women needed access to resources. Men couldn't get steady access to sex unless they had resources to offer, so they worked hard for them. The partnership between men and women was a grand bargain that (usually) left both sides better off.

 

For men, sex was traditionally expensive. The price tag was a long-term commitment to provide for a woman (and children). But today, sex is cheap. And that changes everything.

 

This is the premise of a bracing new book, Cheap Sex, by American sociologist Mark Regnerus. Sex got cheap because of three technological developments: the advent of the Pill, which divorced fertility from sex; the onset of mass-produced, high-quality pornography; and the arrival of online dating sites, which make it easy for men to find willing sex partners.

 

Sexual liberation is a fabulous thing – in some ways. But it can also turn men into louts, because women don't expect much in return for access. Today, most men can have all the sex they want for very little cost – no fancy dinner required. The irony, as Mr. Regnerus writes, is that today's mating market is probably more dominated by men's interests than ever before.

 

<snip>.

 

Since the women's cartel collapsed, women's bargaining power has seriously eroded. That's why so many single women hate Tinder, which has further commodified sex for the benefit of men. Women are just another consumer good in the shop window.

 

It may take a village to raise a child. But it takes a village to raise a husband, too. And modern society has largely abdicated from the job. "Good husband material doesn't occur naturally, but is instead the product (in part) of socialization, development, and social control," Mr. Regnerus writes. "n the domain of sex and relationships men will act as nobly as women collectively demand."

 

Time to get our act together, ladies. If we don't, they won't either.

Edited September 26, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Truncate article

[Springsummer]

Cheap sex.

 

women, they are their own worst enemies.

[Woggle]

The problems with modern relationships come from both men and women and it will take both men and women to solve them. The provider and housewife thing is mostly a thing of the past and rightfully so but it can be replaced with something better if men and women drop the animosity and stop looking at each as opposing sides instead of partners. Articles like this are anti-male drivel and I would say the same about an article that blamed everything on modern women.

[Hoosfoos]

You left them in the friend zone

[SammySammy]

The problems with modern relationships come from both men and women and it will take both men and women to solve them. The provider and housewife thing is mostly a thing of the past and rightfully so but it can be replaced with something better if men and women drop the animosity and stop looking at each as opposing sides instead of partners. Articles like this are anti-male drivel and I would say the same about an article that blamed everything on modern women.

 

True.

 

If women stopped looking at themselves as cows to be bought. Stopped trying to sell milk. Offered a more evolved relationship.

[basil67]

If this article was true, how does it explain all the men on dating sites looking for a long term partner?

 

I think the author has a warped view of traditional marriage too. Men gave women a roof over their head and children to raise. The woman re-paid the man by running his household effectively. Before the advent of contraception, many women got to the stage of having enough children and would shut up shop. Or were told to not have any more children because it would risk their lives. So no, it's not all about sex.

 

Seems to me like the author would rather blame other women for her woes than take personal responsibility for being too choosy.

 

A load of rubbish if you ask me.

[basil67]

I would also add that there are many, many women who do find good relationships. Sex for fun certainly didn't hold those women back.

[CptInsano]

To be perfectly honest, I see the change as more economical in nature than sexual. I'm in my late 40s and it never occurred to me to marry a woman for sex. For love, companionship and to raise a family, but not for sex. It was always available in some shape or form.

 

And this is why I think the pornography argument is largely false: Men get a lot of validation through sex with women. They are accepted, have proven to be attractive and otherwise worthy to have overcome rejection. And men still want to be loved. Pornography provides none of that. Which is why you still see men who are dating women. Pornography will not bear a man's child in the end.

 

What has truly changed is the economic background. Labor participation rates for women have increased dramatically over the last decades, topping out in the early 2000s. The old provider model is no-longer needed in many cases. While it had plenty of flaws, it had one advantage: It's goals were tangible, and both parties knew what was expected.

 

Any relationship that is primarily aimed at providing emotional fulfillment is far more fickle, and it is not nearly as clear as to why it would require marriage to begin with.

 

Marriage used to be mandatory for many who wanted some economic success and have a family. This is just not the case anymore.

[cocorico]

All the women want serious relationships that lead to marriage, but many of the men they meet do not.

 

I don’t know who they surveyed for that (tiredly stereotyped) article, but my experience was the opposite. In my 30s the last thing I wanted was a LTR / M. I was a single mother with a demanding job, hectic social life, and loads of commitments. What I wanted from a guy was - sex.

 

But the guys I was prepared to consider didn’t just want sex. They loved the idea of an instant family (beyond the nappy stage - yay!) and wanted to move in together and get M or at least work up to that. They were mostly either single guys who’d played the field and now wanted to settle down, or they were guys who’d married young (like me) and gotten D (like me) but wanted to pick up where they left off - playing happy families.

 

We’d have The Talk, about expectations, what we wanted, etc, and they’d swear blind they just wanted something transient, a roll in the hay.... but a couple of weeks down the line there would be flowers at work. Soppy cards. Dropping by unannounced “to make supper, so you can rest up”, trying to insinuate themselves into my kids’ lives.... I’d be forced to dump them, however good the sex.

 

And I’m not an outlier, either. Several of my friends had similar experiences.

[elaine567]

And this is why I think the pornography argument is largely false: Men get a lot of validation through sex with women. They are accepted, have proven to be attractive and otherwise worthy to have overcome rejection. And men still want to be loved. Pornography provides none of that. Which is why you still see men who are dating women.

Pornography will not bear a man's child in the end.

 

No, but if we are talking about a subset of men who do not want the whole picket fence married idyll and men who prefer their hand to a real live woman, then I guess they do not really want a child either.

I guess it boils down to laziness (as expounded by oldshirt on this link), too lazy to get a good career and attract a decent woman, too lazy to contemplate having kids as it sounds too much like hard work and too lazy to even bed a woman, all he needs is his laptop/tablet/phone and his hand...

[Chilli]

Sex is the last reason on earth to marry a women that doesn't make sense.

She ages, has kids,20yrs go by, same partner forever, l really couldn't even imagine a guy marrying for sex you'd stay single for that, being locked into the one person forever sexually is one of the hardest parts about being married,l was married 20yrs and it ain't easy believe me.

Companionship , your best friend, your lifes mate, affection, a family, yeah of course.

 

As far as guys not wanting to get married yeah not many l talk too and thats a lot , wanna get married and any that have sadly usually say never again. Marriage is damn hard stuff and you give up a lot and lose a lot too if it doesn't work out.

l'd also add too a lot guys l talk to as single don't really care what they're earning as long as they get by , most are far more interested in living the way they want and keeping whatever they get , doing what they want. That's all out the window if you go and get married and most seem to realize it these days l've noticed.

Some want good money and are ambitious but they in particular aren't too keen on sharing it or risking losing it l've noticed.

So being the provider thing doesn't make sense either your much wealthier single and it's a lot easier too.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Chilli

[elaine567]

As far as guys not wanting to get married yeah not many l talk too and thats a lot , wanna get married and any that have sadly usually say never again. Marriage is damn hard stuff and you give up a lot and lose a lot too if it doesn't work out.

l'd also add too a lot guys l talk to as single don't really care what they're earning as long as they get by , most are far more interested in living the way they want and keeping whatever they get , doing what they want. That's all out the window if you go and get married and most seem to realize it these days l've noticed.

Some want good money and are ambitious but they in particular aren't too keen on sharing it or risking losing it l've noticed.

So being the provider thing doesn't make sense either your much wealthier single and it's a lot easier too.

 

I think a lot of that applies to many women too, they might want the whole marriage thing but they also need the right man to do it with and he is often a rare beast indeed. He is either into marriage but he is not "right" or he is "right" but is basically a commitmentphobe... or other similar scenarios

Women too can look after themselves and many are not too keen on sharing it with just any guy who shows up either, too much to lose.

ALSO

"I am never again letting a man tell me what to do" is a common phrase uttered by women.

 

In 2017 both men and women tend to like to be "independent" so the necessary confines of a marriage often just does not suit either, especially long term.

[CptInsano]

No, but if we are talking about a subset of men who do not want the whole picket fence married idyll and men who prefer their hand to a real live woman, then I guess they do not really want a child either.

I guess it boils down to laziness (as expounded by oldshirt on this link), too lazy to get a good career and attract a decent woman, too lazy to contemplate having kids as it sounds too much like hard work and too lazy to even bed a woman, all he needs is his laptop/tablet/phone and his hand...

 

Yes, but my point is that the men the OP is looking for, the ones who prefer haptic life and are looking for marriage and kids, would not be the ones who would accept porn as a substitute in the first place.

 

I don't think there are many men out there who originally wanted marriage and kids, but now think that porn is better. That would have to be the case for the hypothesis to be true that porn is impacting the availability of men who are looking to get married. I really don't buy into the desensitization theory, the numbers just don't add up. I'm old enough to remember the 80s, and VHS porn was readily available. Granted, the quality was worse, but I cannot imagine that guys masturbated any less because of it.

 

I live in the Midwest where marriage is pretty much the norm, and porn isn't any less available. This dynamic is even stronger for other cultures where marriage and family are more of a priority. It's pretty clear that other factors are driving this development.

Edited September 24, 2017 by CptInsano
Addition

[Chilli]

Yeah for sure elaine, ya see that all the time too now in women l know.

And don't worry , all the same phrases from men too or sadly often a lot worse.

Sounds like we all hate and recent each other these days doesn't it, it's kinda sad.

 

What does make a guy wanna do it , is when he just falls madly head over heals in love.That's what finally got me too.

lf he feels that way about her you wanna marry her and you'd love to provide for her and look after her and sleep with her forever.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Chilli

[road]

Since the women's cartel collapsed, women's bargaining power has seriously eroded. That's why so many single women hate Tinder, which has further commodified sex for the benefit of men. Women are just another consumer good in the shop window.

 

 

Because women have drank from the Kool-Aid

of Feminism without any critical thinking to

filter out the good from the bad.

 

Women were and still need to be the gate keepers.

 

However they think that they should give it up

as much and easy as the men do.

 

So why buy the cow when you can get the milk

(or MILF) for free?

 

As to OLD. Women do not need the internet to

get laid.

[road]

Notice in the past when unmarried people

lived together it was called shacking up

and said with a smirk and held in disdain.

 

Now it is called politically correct niceness

they moved in together.

 

Well they are still shacking up.

 

Combine that with moving in together

or shacking up is still just plain old

dating without a commitment.

 

It's just dating 24/7/365. And just because

a man is willing to date you was never a

a guarantee that it was going to lead to

marriage.

 

Yep nothing like cold free milk kept in

your fridge. Just for the taking 24/7/365.

Don't have to go to the store to get it.

Bottle is home delivered for free. Damn,

the man doesn't even have to get up from

the sofa. Just honey would you get me that

bottle of milk from the fridge, I'm thirsty.

 

Best part the man does not even have to

rinse out the bottle and bring the empties

back to the store.

[Springsummer]

Because women have drank from the Kool-Aid

of Feminism without any critical thinking to

filter out the good from the bad..

 

This! I agree with the article 100%

[elaine567]

I get the general gist of the article, but didn't the whole sex in exchange for commitment stuff end as soon as the Pill showed up.

Women decades ago jettisoned the idea that "In order to have sex we need to be married or at least engaged...".

 

So if this "cheap sex" is supposedly only happening now in 2017 then the whole "Free love" thing in the 1960s was obviously a myth?

[Springsummer]

If this article was true, how does it explain all the men on dating sites looking for a long term partner?

 

Seems to me like the author would rather blame other women for her woes than take personal responsibility for being too choosy.

 

A load of rubbish if you ask me.

 

I don't think you even read the article careful.

 

first, she said this generation, not her generation. so it's not even about her.

 

she doesn't say all men. she says it's harder. Certainly for desirable men, and men who have options.

 

there are certainly lots of man out there who are not so desirable and therefore no easy access to sex.

 

This article gives you the trend and generalization, but you argue with exceptions.

[CptInsano]

[...]

 

So if this "cheap sex" is supposedly only happening now in 2017 then the whole "Free love" thing in the 1960s was obviously a myth?

 

Maybe I'm wrong here, but in my experience women want sex, period. As soon as they trust a guy and are comfortable around him they want sex just as much. But women don't like random sex, as they are selective about their partners, if I may generalize for a moment.

 

So I agree with you, the "sex cartel" is a myth.

[Chilli]

Times have changed that is for sure !

Suppose in our parents day for example , first thing on the agenda in your 20s l'd guess was probably to find yourself a wifey or hubby.

[Chilli]

l swore l'd never get married again after my divorce but l could've married 2 or 3 girls if l was inclined.

It wasn't until gf came a long though that l actually wanted to get married again. Sadly that hasn't worked out so it never happened but it did really make me think because if it could've , l would've .

So in the future from here now , who knows l guess, l've realized l can't rule anything out after that.

Although l very much doubt l'd be lucky enough to meet somebody else l felt that way about again now butttt, never say never l guess.

But l would have to feel that way.

[CptInsano]

Times have changed that is for sure !

Suppose in our parents day for example , first thing on the agenda in your 20s l'd guess was probably to find yourself a wifey or hubby.

 

Times have changed for sure. I was fathered during the "summer of love", and I am quite certain that I will never have as many sex partners as either one of my parents.

[Chilli]

And it would have to be overwhelmingly feel that way.

[Chilli]

Although as ya get older do you ever sometimes think sh@t, l better marry someone or l'll end growing old alone. ?