This article totally nailed it: Why are good men so hard to find?

[Chilli]

Yeah exactly and so women going around saying there are no good men left or they don't wanna get married is a turn of too ya see.it's been said a million times even just in this thread.

Most guys run a mile from bitter women. Probably works the same for women too but if they go round saying it themselves then it's back to square one.

[Chilli]

My eyes glaze over any time I see someone, in all seriousness, use terms like "snowflake." Way to be cliche.

 

What's it suppose to mean anyway ?

[Chilli]

Yeah , the idea of a guy marrying or getting into a relationship just for sex is ridiculous, all that hassle and restriction then , just for sex, no way. as l posted a few pages back lots of reasons why that doesn't stack up.

 

The so called artical is just another one on the pile of millions of dribble out there, brain farts most of them.

[AMarriedMan]

The author is completely and utterly out of touch with the lives of average single males. It is NOT easy to get sex for the average single male. Very, very far from it. The article is so off base that it isn't even funny.

 

I think the author realizes this at some level because she tries to conflate access to high-quality pornography with sexual access. That is not how it works. Masturbation, aided with pornographic images or not, is nothing but a second-rate substitute for the real thing. There is so much more going on even on a pure sensory level in sex with a willing partner of the preferred sex than in masturbation, let alone on an emotional level. I don't think anyone has to be explained how self-stimulation and stimulation by another feel different. Secondly, and more importantly, being the object of desire implies validation and that is hugely important, at least for young men. (Many older men have been seen too much or been through the wringer themselves and have become disillusioned. But they are not the demographic clamoring to get married in the first place.)

 

Online dating, especially on services like Tinder, is typically frustrating and disappointing for both average women and average men. The fundamental reason for that is the fact that women are turned on by men other women find desirable (men of high rank/status/success) who are seriously into them. The context of Tinder dating where each male stands in comparison to a very large number of competitors magnifies this to a painful degree. The only men who get easy sex on Tinder (or anywhere else) are the cream of the crop. They and only they will have access to a large quantity of sex partners. Any woman on Tinder can get laid in a heartbeat but, obviously, finding a desirable man willing to commit is very hard.

 

The best way for the average Joe to get laid is to stay out of the electronic meat markets and get to know women on a personal level in his daily life. His best chance is to get laid regularly is to get into a committed relationship with a woman. I did not say marriage, because marriage puts a lot of power into the hands of the wife over the husband (= a legal claim on all his present and even some of his future resources - without any reciprocal duties of her own under most jurisdictions) and that's where things start slowly coming apart all too often. There are still plenty of unattached average Joes for average Janes to choose willing relationship partners from. Marriage is probably a different story, particularly among the young generation, because too many of them have seen the damage divorce does up close in their families of origin or among their extended family or friends.

[darkmoon]

good? perhaps men just want to be good to the woman they want, and it is not the writer of that blog, not even sure if all girls dislike porn, the porn actreses do, and what is "good"? the guy who buys the dinners?

Edited September 25, 2017 by darkmoon

[basil67]

This blog may have been written by a woman. But she's basically promoting a book written by a man.

 

Interesting that a male writer can be so out of touch with the average men and that the woman writing the blog about the book is so out of touch with the average woman.

[CptInsano]

good? perhaps men just want to be good to the woman they want, and it is not the writer of that blog, not even sure if all girls dislike porn, the porn actreses do, and what is "good"? the guy who buys the dinners?

 

I always wonder about that, too. What exactly are good men? Can't be "nice guys". "Bad boys" are out by definition. Can't be regular guys, because they should be easy to find. It's a mystery.

[Chilli]

Well , to my mind and many l've known, this is just roughly how it really works.

lffffff, you fall in love with somebody or your really, really , keen on them , of course there's probably a lot of attraction too buttttt, along with personality and click and 50 other goodies as well.

And so in those circumstances , of course anything sexual is a beautiful bonus and all part of companionship and the rest of the big picture with somebody you really feel special about.

[thefooloftheyear]

I always wonder about that, too. What exactly are good men? Can't be "nice guys". "Bad boys" are out by definition. Can't be regular guys, because they should be easy to find. It's a mystery.

 

 

I dunno if it's such a mystery...while no one is perfect, i'd imagine the average woman would consider a "good" man, one who is good looking, well built, accomplished. intelligent, worldly, generous., family oriented and willing to be a proper father of her kids, generally kind to others and showing "quiet" Alpha qualities.... without a lot of bluster and brashness....

 

But as far as the article goes....well...there could be something to this trend...I really don't know for sure, but statistics are notable, and from what i hear on the street, many guys are doing things now in relationships with women, that would have been pretty much unheard of "back in the day"...

 

I don't know if its been mentioned, but the general push toward "gender neutrality" has hurt relationships between the sexes...Guys don't like women that show masculine traits and the reverse applies as well with women....Sure, many find a way to fit the pieces in place, but there are many others trying to figure all this out...And this leads to a lot of movement in and out of relationships and the general feeling of never really being truly satisfied.

 

And yes, many guys can be lazy...So, offer them available sex virtually everywhere, and they aren't going to be so inclined to do the dog and pony show, so to speak...Additionally,. with more women out there earning a solid dollar, you see a massive move toward guys who really don't aspire to very much, being content to let her go out and be the bread winner, while he putters around from one crappy job to another..This was virtually unheard of just a few decades ago..

 

It surprises me that some posters think "its the same" in terms of available sex for men now vs in the past...That's just a ridiculous notion...Technology, and the changing attitudes among women regarding casual sex has made it pretty easy for most guys...The notion of a "FWB" for women in say...the 80's was a pretty rare scenario...It happened, but no way to the extent it is now..

 

I have a friend that complains about their daughters current situation...She is an attractive woman in her late 20's that has been with this same guy now for better than 4 years..Of course, she wants the house, the white fence, the dog..and the kids....While they have be sharing an apt, for a while, he hasn't said anything about any of it,. she won't pressure him over it, he still bangs around with his buddies, while she works two jobs...I'd think if that guy was me at the same point in life, there would be heavy pressure to get that life plan going...

 

So perhaps there is something to the notion that as more guys find it easier to take the lazy approach, facilitated by women's open and more casual feelings about sex, and the less of a need for a guy to be the heavy provider and family leader, then it would stand to reason that the pool of the "good" guys as I described at the beginning, starts to shrink...I can see that possibility...

 

TFY

[basil67]

TFY, while casual sex was certainly around in the 70's and 80's you make a good point about FWB not being a thing back then. Will have to have a rethink of my ideas.

 

The friend's daughter? I guess she can't be too unhappy with the situation if she sticks around and doesn't put any pressure on. Personally I can't fathom letting a man decide the timing of my whole future....but hey, that's just me.

[Chilli]

Haha that's quite a wish list there tfy , wonder how many women could live up too being the perfect women for our wish list , bout the same proportion l'd say.

 

So what's your perfect women guys ?

[Els]

Haha that's quite a wish list there tfy , wonder how many women could live up too being the perfect women for our wish list , bout the same proportion l'd say.

 

I wouldn't say it's an unrealistic list, assuming that by "good-looking and well-built" one doesn't necessarily mean he would qualify for Mr. Universe, but rather just that he looks attractive to her. The other qualities TFY listed sound fairly reasonable to me, although not all women want kids either, so that point wouldn't apply to those who didn't. I do think he is ascribing too much credit to the author of the article, though. The article really just reads to me like the author is trying to find someone or something to blame for a life that she is unsatisfied with.

 

To me, "good" is mostly defined by how he treats the woman who is supposedly the love of his life. Does he care about her beyond just what she can "provide" him, does he prioritize her well-being and happiness? Does he put time and effort into their relationship? Does he try to do nice things for her? Does he treat her with respect and love? All of the other things - like being generous or gainfully employed, etc, are all merely extensions of that. A man who cared about his partner would not leave her to do all the breadwinning and housework while he sat around drinking beer and playing video games, for instance.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Elswyth

[AMarriedMan]

This blog may have been written by a woman. But she's basically promoting a book written by a man.

 

Interesting that a male writer can be so out of touch with the average men and that the woman writing the blog about the book is so out of touch with the average woman.

 

Based on the article, the intended readership of the book seems to be conservative women. The author knows what they want to hear.

[AMarriedMan]

We’d have The Talk, about expectations, what we wanted, etc, and they’d swear blind they just wanted something transient, a roll in the hay.... but a couple of weeks down the line there would be flowers at work. Soppy cards. Dropping by unannounced “to make supper, so you can rest up”, trying to insinuate themselves into my kids’ lives.... I’d be forced to dump them, however good the sex.

 

And I’m not an outlier, either. Several of my friends had similar experiences.

 

Do you use hormonal contraception?

[CptInsano]

Based on the article, the intended readership of the book seems to be conservative women. The author knows what they want to hear.

 

That is my impression, also. Applying Occam's razor to this topic I always end up with economic issues and their direct consequences. (Women and men are both employed, so marriage is no-longer a necessity.) Combining that with effective contraception that makes casual sex possible, I don't need any other causes to explain a trend towards less traditional forms of relationships.

 

Taking a more judgemental approach may however sell books.

[AMarriedMan]

Since the women's cartel collapsed, women's bargaining power has seriously eroded. That's why so many single women hate Tinder, which has further commodified sex for the benefit of men. Women are just another consumer good in the shop window.

 

And the men on Tinder just pick up the women like items from a supermarket shelve and have sex with them, just like that with little effort expended? You must be a woman, probably a middle-aged conservative woman who has probably never even used Tinder. *Everybody* on Tinder is commodified. Tinder is of no use to anyone but the most attractive men for whom Tinder is a convenient way to gain access to the Mac&Cheese equivalent of sex.

 

Because women have drank from the Kool-Aid

of Feminism without any critical thinking to

filter out the good from the bad.

 

Women were and still need to be the gate keepers.

 

However they think that they should give it up

as much and easy as the men do.

 

Women are still very much the gatekeepers, except for the top 10% or so of guys who can easily get their dicks wet by slumming it. Nearly every woman has had one or a few experiences of that, being perhaps exciting but ultimately unsatisfying for them. "The men" obviously include only those men in your discourse.

 

So why buy the cow when you can get the milk

(or MILF) for free?

 

There is no such thing as sex for free for a man.

 

One-night-stands are an expensive form of obtaining sex for the average man and it's is not even the female partners who gain. Third parties such as clubs and alcoholic beverage producers and distributers are the main beneficiaries. Girlfriends provide the lowest-cost sex to the average man. But even that is far from free. Girlfriends demand many kinds of resources devoted to them in exchange for what they do for their BF. A live-in girlfriend may want you to go shopping with them, frequently complain about things going on in their lives (including their boyfriend, that is you), expect gifts or financial support, and expect their BF to be their emotional supporter and problem solver, demand that their BF quit their hobbies etc., and not reciprocate in any of these ways like in a true partnership.

 

What men increasingly refuse to do these days is get married. Because among married couples the husband is typically the higher-earning spouse, a man getting married may reasonably expect marriage to prove a heavy financial liability in case of divorce, which has a high probability of occurring, without any corresponding obligations for or restrictions on the wife (under most jurisdictions).

 

As to OLD. Women do not need the internet to

get laid.

 

All a woman needs to get laid is a pulse.

[Chilli]

Don't worry El ain't easy finding a women that treats ya right either , matter of fact l wouldn't even even single right now if it was,damn.

they get just as slack as guys on the long haul.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Chilli

[Els]

Don't worry El ain't easy finding a women that treats ya right either , matter of fact l wouldn't even even single right now if it was,damn.

they get just as slack as guys on the long haul.

 

Oh, I definitely don't think finding a "good" man (or woman) is easy... I do think it is worth holding out for though.

[knabe]

Based on the article, the intended readership of the book seems to be conservative women. The author knows what they want to hear.

 

Thanks for making me choke in laughter on my Coke Zero. I am a very conservative woman and I found this article laughable. A jaded woman promoting a book written by a jaded man. That pretty much sums it up.

 

I swear, the hyper hairy feminists and RedPill MGTOW'ers are ruining dating for everyone else. They should just buy their own unhappy islands stocked with porn and Diva cups and leave the rest of us alone.

[AMarriedMan]

Thanks for making me choke in laughter on my Coke Zero. I am a very conservative woman and I found this article laughable. A jaded woman promoting a book written by a jaded man. That pretty much sums it up.

 

Jaded?? I'd say it was written by longing for the good old days when men were real men and women were chaste and virtuous. That's right up conservative alley. I don't know what kind of conservative you are but the sentiment that the world is deteriorating and that an effort is needed to conserve what's tried-and-true is necessary is what being a conservative is essentially about.

 

I swear, the hyper hairy feminists and RedPill MGTOW'ers are ruining dating for everyone else. They should just buy their own unhappy islands stocked with porn and Diva cups and leave the rest of us alone.

 

How have feminists ruined dating for you? And, pray tell, how can any MGTOW ruin dating for anybody simply by being MGTOW? Most of them volunteer to stay out of dating altogether. Besides, if you are dating someone who never wishes to marry and is upfront about that, it is your own fault to continue dating that person if you want to marry them. Or have you encountered liars? If so, your experience would hardly be unique and not requiring any novel acronym to describe it.

Edited September 26, 2017 by AMarriedMan

[knabe]

Jaded?? I'd say it was written by longing for the good old days when men were real men and women were chaste and virtuous. That's right up conservative alley. I don't know what kind of conservative you are but the sentiment that the world is deteriorating and that an effort is needed to conserve what's tried-and-true is necessary is what being a conservative is essentially about.

 

 

 

How have feminists ruined dating for you? And, pray tell, how can any MGTOW ruin dating for anybody simply by being MGTOW? Most of them volunteer to stay out of dating altogether. Besides, if you are dating someone who never wishes to marry and is upfront about that, it is your own fault to continue dating that person if you want to marry them. Or have you encountered liars? If so, your experience would hardly be unique and not requiring any novel acronym to describe it.

 

Calm down, sweetie. I'm a traditional woman marrying a traditional man. I'm very happy. I just think the article is bunk.

 

Aren't you the guy who got his wife to "shape up" by treating her like crap and making her afraid you'd leave? That's not traditional.

Edited September 26, 2017 by knabe

[AMarriedMan]

Aren't you the guy who got his wife to "shape up" by treating her like crap and making her afraid you'd leave? That's not traditional.

 

No, I'm not that guy. You're confusing me with someone else. And I've never declared myself to be traditional or non-traditional here.

[cocorico]

Do you use hormonal contraception?

 

No. Not since I fell pregnant on the Pill in my early 20s.

[Springsummer]

I dunno if it's such a mystery...while no one is perfect, i'd imagine the average woman would consider a "good" man, one who is good looking, well built, accomplished. intelligent, worldly, generous., family oriented and willing to be a proper father of her kids, generally kind to others and showing "quiet" Alpha qualities.... without a lot of bluster and brashness....

 

 

TFY

 

There are universally agreed upon characteristics of a good man.

 

Are these good men easy to find nowadays?

 

It's HARD! why? why would a man work hard and cherish a woman, who used to easily jump to the beds of other men? he is not her one and only.

 

cheap sex makes a man hard to be family oriented.

[Springsummer]

A jaded woman promoting a book written by a jaded man. That pretty much sums it up.

 

What makes you think they are jaded? you know them personally? I don't.

 

Just because they have observations that are different than your experience and you attack them personally?

 

What makes your opinions more valid than them?