Still struggling...

[SwordofFlame]

Maybe this is part of your problem. A 24 year old still in school, trying to score with with 18-20 year olds could be kind of "creepy" looking. I'd wager women are bit turned off by this. When I was in school if there was someone your age who still hadn't graduated but insisted on hanging around all the younger people and trying to pick the girls, people would view him much less than favorably. There's nothing wrong with being 24 and still in school, but you've got to consider the optics of the situation. It's just not a good look.

 

Someone your age and still in school is pretty behind the ball. A girl could go out with someone her own age progressing at the normal pace. Or if she actually wanted to go out with someone older, she could date a 24 year old who's been out of school for 3 years already and has a decent job.

 

I'm sure your luck will turn when you're out of school, if not earlier. Then you can date people your own age and won't have the stigma of being the old guy on campus trying to date teenagers. Best of luck.

 

Have to agree here. For some reason, you don't seem to do well with the college crowd. I had the same problem. Didn't have any luck with women until I graduated and had a good career going. I know that's not what you want to hear but you might just need to hang in there and keep working on yourself.

[Cookiesandough]

While I can see that, I would also think first sight no one knows what OP does. He could lie if he's just looking for hookups, make outs at clubs, coffee dates. It's really about looks and charm if that's his goal

[LightWave93]

It sounds like it's not much better IRL. Would you say you're confident? You said you can't get drunken kisses at a night club or hookups etc. I struggle with that stuff myself, though I've never really attempted. I will say, you don't give off an overtly sexual/hookup sort. I think you would need to get that acrossed with your body language and energy in person. Like when you are dancing with a hottie, touch her in sexy places like the small of her back and look at her lips etc. Have to learn to read the signs( I suppose for some this comes more naturally than others) and be kind of be bold

 

The problem I'm currently facing is a lack of a friendship circle so I have the potential to meet people. I mixed with the wrong group last few years, but I'm getting back out there with two different groups over the course of the next week (and I'm hoping/praying it'll go well!).

 

The other is a more historic issue. I was bullied as a child, had social anxiety to the point I couldn't make eye-contact, with mutter in response to people, look at the ground etc. I got better as I got older, but I had a traumatic breakup in 2015 that really knocked me back (aged 22). Last few years I've really, and I mean really pushed myself; last year I was working like five jobs whilst trying to find time to do uni work and a social life. It's been hectic. Now I'm fairly confident in that I can hold a conversation, approach new people, put myself outside of my comfortzone etc, but I'm not Chad who won the genetic lottery and has had girls hanging off him for x amount of years. I don't have a whole lot of experience with woman; one long-term relationship, one short.

 

That is all to say, the prospect of dancing with anyone in a club let alone a hottie is quite difficult for me to comprehend. I can't dance, for starters, though with a few drinks I couldn't really give a ****. I've never had a girl try to dance with me, though quite frankly I wouldn't know the signs if they were (tried to be positive the other night when a woman who was REALLY HOT was dancing nearby / next to me and even sat down when I did, but that just wishful thinking and she was soon whisked away lol). Last but not least, in other social situations it's usually easy to bounce off a conversation ("Who do you know at this party" which then turns to talking my uni, courses etc, or if at a society you ask how long they've enjoyed x for. What the bloody hell do you say in a club?).

 

@Cookiesandough

 

You've seen my profile; any tips? You think I'm hot, but what about the quality of my photos? Do I seem interesting etc? Though I've since changed so one of them is me paragliding.

 

Have to agree here. For some reason, you don't seem to do well with the college crowd. I had the same problem. Didn't have any luck with women until I graduated and had a good career going. I know that's not what you want to hear but you might just need to hang in there and keep working on yourself.

 

If it all works out in the end, great, but I can't help but feel second (third, forth, fifth, sixth...?) best if I'm a decent, quality person now and getting overlooked for whatever reason.

[Cookiesandough]

** I am not suggesting to lie lol** I am just pointing out there is no reason a 24 year old guy in college can't get dates with girls. There a ton of 24 year old students out there dating. And especially with those eyes...

 

Do continue improving!!!

[LightWave93]

** I am not suggesting to lie lol** I am just pointing out there is no reason a 24 year old guy in college can't get dates with girls.

 

Well, that's the situation I find myself in.

[normal person]

Fact of the matter is though, most of the girls I know who are dating at my university are with older men. A little younger, perhaps (say, 22). Also got to bear in mind average final year age is 21 and I'm not that much older, and I've still got a fourth year to do.

 

Thing is and again, I don't get my foot in the door. Women won't know I'm 24, at least not IRL.

 

Maybe it's just me but I see a notable difference between an 18-19 year old girl dating a 22 year old senior, and an 18-19 year old dating a 24 year old junior. You might think they're none the wiser, but women are usually pretty observant.

 

More pointing out the fact I can't get so much as a kiss on a cheek, and I'm so undesirable women my age (in a culture very casual-sex driven) won't even consider me for a one-nighter.

 

This might be for the best. The "one nighters" can be empty, hollow, and risky. If women aren't dying to bang you, it'd be better to portray yourself as the guy who isn't sleeping with everything that moves because he has standards, not the guy who can't even though he has none. If you let the "woe is me" stuff creep into your attitude and interactions, it won't do you any favors. As I said, women are very observant and can smell desperation a mile away.

 

Now I'm fairly confident in that I can hold a conversation, approach new people, put myself outside of my comfortzone etc

 

Just an observation, but if you'd only consider yourself "fairly confident" at these relatively trivial, easy, things, I'd say it's probably putting out a bad, uncomfortable, vibe and is likely more apparent than you think it is. Likely a problem. It's like a doctor saying "I'm fairly confident that I can diagnose and treat medical problems." I'd be suspicious. You need to lose the uncertainty somehow.

 

That is all to say, the prospect of dancing with anyone in a club let alone a hottie is quite difficult for me to comprehend. I can't dance, for starters, though with a few drinks I couldn't really give a ****.

 

Here's another thing. You're in your own head too much. If you think something necessary or desirable is incomprehensible, you'll have a hell of a time doing it or getting it. Drop the mental barrier. It's not a big deal. Dancing is not that hard. If you need a few drinks, go for it. Better to look tipsy and slightly uncoordinated than to look petrified and unwilling. Dancing is basically subconsciously equated to sex. Gotta have confidence.

 

I've never had a girl try to dance with me, though quite frankly I wouldn't know the signs if they were

 

Reading through your thread, you say you supposedly do everything right, but when I read stuff like this I can't help but wonder if you have a noticeable vibe of insecurity or uncertainty that's apparent to everyone but you. For example:

"I'm fairly confident that I can hold a conversation."

"The prospect of dancing with someone in a club is difficult to comprehend, I can't dance"

"No one has ever tried to dance with me, and I wouldn't know it if they did."

 

You almost sound like you came from another planet and you're trying to ingratiate yourself with the cool kids for some weird experiment. This stuff, or even the inkling of it, is kryptonite to women and I'm not sure you realize it. You're four years older than everyone, and not only are you not the most confident person around despite that, I'd guess you're one of the least. If I were a woman, that'd be a big red flag. I'd guess that's your issue. I can read it seeping through your posts and I'm sure others can sense it even when you don't think you're doing it. You need to get out of your own head, stop being paralyzed by fear and just do. Stop caring. The prospect of doing nothing and therefore losing should be more terrifying than trying and not succeeding immediately. Talking and dancing are pretty commonplace, it's silly to let fear stop you from doing them to the best of your ability, especially considering how much older you are. If not, you're going to look exponentially worse given the circumstances. "LightWave93 is older than everyone still afraid to X, Y, Z?" Talk. Dance. It ain't the end of the world.

 

I really think fear is your problem. Conquer it or at least stop caring about it to the point where it makes you look bad. I'm sure there's some good literature out there which might help you through it. https://www.amazon.com/Subtle-Art-Not-Giving-Counterintuitive/dp/0062457713

[LightWave93]

Whilst I certainly understand what you're saying, I feel you've taken what I said out of context and to the extreme in order to justify the points you wish to put across.

 

Just an observation, but if you'd only consider yourself "fairly confident" at these relatively trivial, easy, things, I'd say it's probably putting out a bad, uncomfortable, vibe and is likely more apparent than you think it is. Likely a problem. It's like a doctor saying "I'm fairly confident that I can diagnose and treat medical problems." I'd be suspicious. You need to lose the uncertainty somehow.

 

Those are perhaps relatively trivial, easy things for yourself and many others to do, but for me it used to be an absolute nightmare as mentioned before with my social anxiety. It took a lot of years, hard work and therapy to get to the point where I now am.

 

In what ways do you wish for me to demonstrate my confidence? Indeed, how am I meant to have confidence in my ability to date if I am unable to date in the first place? Do I believe I am a quality person with value? Yes. Do I believe I am interesting? Yes. Do I do things for me, to improve myself and enjoy life. Yes.

 

Dancing is not that hard.

 

For some people it is, myself included. I don't dance particularly well, it's not a skill I've been able to improve, but I do continue to attempt to do so. Not that you need to dance particularly well in a club anyway, and I know I'm far ahead of some people I've seen.

 

You almost sound like you came from another planet and you're trying to ingratiate yourself with the cool kids for some weird experiment.

 

In a way, that is the case. I pretty much didn't have much social interaction until I was aged 18, and even then it was fleeting. It was only until two years ago (22) when I started university that I've been able to work on my social muscle, but by then I was amongst younger students straight out of a college environment whom had no difficulties in their younger life. Given the circumstances, I've done rather well, and despite a later comment you make and given what people have told me, I'd say I'm more confident than you think I am. I'm certainly not the most confident person around and I will probably never have the confidence of men twice my size, women hanging off their arm and with an extroverted nature...but I'm working with what I got.

 

I don't really know what else to say in this respect. I'm a high achiever, keep myself fit and health, have a multitude of different interests which I pursue for my own sake, I know I'm a good and quality person. I've just been shaken by my lack of success with dating.

[normal person]

Those are perhaps relatively trivial, easy things for yourself and many others to do, but for me it used to be an absolute nightmare as mentioned before with my social anxiety. It took a lot of years, hard work and therapy to get to the point where I now am.

 

Well good job on improving. You might need to improve more, though.

 

In what ways do you wish for me to demonstrate my confidence?

 

Don't display insecurity or fear. If that's unavoidable, don't dwell on them.

 

Indeed, how am I meant to have confidence in my ability to date if I am unable to date in the first place? Do I believe I am a quality person with value? Yes. Do I believe I am interesting? Yes. Do I do things for me, to improve myself and enjoy life. Yes.

 

Two thoughts:

1). We all have to break a mental barrier at some point. Take chances. Overcome fears. Act as if you didn't care. I remember once I walked into a bar with my friends and there was a group of girls and one very attractive one looked at me said "you can't put your jackets over here," and then I laughed threw her my jacket and told her to keep an eye on it. Things went particularly well with her after that. Had it been 10-15 years earlier, I would've said "oh, ok" and sheepishly found somewhere else to put it, and she would've laughed at how she could control a boy like that. I can't remember where the turning point was exactly, but somewhere along the line I learned that not caring about things and not living in fear of things is liberating and often pretty attractive. If you're reluctant to talk or dance, it's visible sign of fear and insecurity. Not a good look. Just or dance. Rationalize it: what's the worst thing that can happen?

 

Or,

 

2). For everything that's posited, you've already done it or give assurance that it's a non-issue. So considering that, maybe you're good as is and this bump in the road is circumstantial, coincidental, or just unlucky, because no one can seem to think of anything else. So given that then, why wouldn't you be confident? You think you're a quality, interesting, decent person. If you believe it, why not act like it and not be so worried about any supposed lack of success, as it's unrelated to your value? If you're just not someone's type, or they have a boyfriend already, why should that affect your self worth? If you don't believe anything's wrong, why worry? Why not just wait it out until the circumstances are more favorable?

 

 

For some people it is, myself included. I don't dance particularly well, it's not a skill I've been able to improve, but I do continue to attempt to do so. Not that you need to dance particularly well in a club anyway, and I know I'm far ahead of some people I've seen.

 

If I was with you at the club, this is the point where I'd say "cool story, bro" give you a shot, push you onto the dance floor into a group of girls and say "my friend thinks you guys are cute!" You sound uptight, rigid, and paralyzed by fear. No one's expecting you to be Baryshnikov. You'll win people over by looking like you want to have fun regardless of how well you dance, and you'll achieve nothing and possibly look worse if you cower in fear at the prospect of it.

 

 

In a way, that is the case. I pretty much didn't have much social interaction until I was aged 18, and even then it was fleeting. It was only until two years ago (22) when I started university that I've been able to work on my social muscle, but by then I was amongst younger students straight out of a college environment whom had no difficulties in their younger life. Given the circumstances, I've done rather well, and despite a later comment you make and given what people have told me, I'd say I'm more confident than you think I am. I'm certainly not the most confident person around and I will probably never have the confidence of men twice my size, women hanging off their arm and with an extroverted nature...but I'm working with what I got.

 

Congrats again on improving. It sounds like you still have work to do because again, I can sense your insecurity through the screen.

 

 

I don't really know what else to say in this respect. I'm a high achiever, keep myself fit and health, have a multitude of different interests which I pursue for my own sake, I know I'm a good and quality person. I've just been shaken by my lack of success with dating.

 

If you really believe you're good as is, see #2 again. But if not, then just because you're more confident than you used to be doesn't mean you're well equipped enough. I'd guess you need some honing still. Try thinking about the worst things that could possible happen if you weren't so fearful of things, decide if it's worth taking the risk to do them despite your fear, and see what happens when you do them. If you can't rationalize yourself into doing relatively harmless things for the greater good, you're not ready. Best of luck.

[LightWave93]

Well good job on improving. You might need to improve more, though.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot to improve on, but I'm just not sure how. Like, over the last few years I've been given a metric ton of suggestions and I've undertaken every single one and still come up short.

 

 

Two thoughts:

1). We all have to break a mental barrier at some point. Take chances. Overcome fears. Act as if you didn't care. I remember once I walked into a bar with my friends and there was a group of girls and one very attractive one looked at me said "you can't put your jackets over here," and then I laughed threw her my jacket and told her to keep an eye on it. Things went particularly well with her after that. Had it been 10-15 years earlier, I would've said "oh, ok" and sheepishly found somewhere else to put it, and she would've laughed at how she could control a boy like that. I can't remember where the turning point was exactly, but somewhere along the line I learned that not caring about things and not living in fear of things is liberating and often pretty attractive. If you're reluctant to talk or dance, it's visible sign of fear and insecurity. Not a good look. Just or dance. Rationalize it: what's the worst thing that can happen?

 

I know the response to my upcoming statement would be to "not fear the outcome", but I guarantee if this scenario played out in the exact same way but with me instead of you, it would not have gone well. At all. In fact, I've done similar things before and it's often met with a "WTF" look.

 

So, experience hasn't given me a great impression, in short.

 

2). For everything that's posited, you've already done it or give assurance that it's a non-issue. So considering that, maybe you're good as is and this bump in the road is circumstantial, coincidental, or just unlucky, because no one can seem to think of anything else. So given that then, why wouldn't you be confident? You think you're a quality, interesting, decent person. If you believe it, why not act like it and not be so worried about any supposed lack of success, as it's unrelated to your value? If you're just not someone's type, or they have a boyfriend already, why should that affect your self worth? If you don't believe anything's wrong, why worry? Why not just wait it out until the circumstances are more favorable?

 

I'm only trying to defend myself in the sense that I want to make it known to people on here I am actually doing the things suggested. I've seen way too many examples of people asking for advice and not carrying it out.

 

And...well...I want romantic / sexual relationships. I'm a quality person, but I feel like I'm missing out and it's a part of life I wish to experience, and will take steps to achieve.

 

If I was with you at the club, this is the point where I'd say "cool story, bro" give you a shot, push you onto the dance floor into a group of girls and say "my friend thinks you guys are cute!" You sound uptight, rigid, and paralyzed by fear. No one's expecting you to be Baryshnikov. You'll win people over by looking like you want to have fun regardless of how well you dance, and you'll achieve nothing and possibly look worse if you cower in fear at the prospect of it.

 

I actually wish that scenario would happen.

[LightWave93]

I feel a bit better today, and made an effort to look good. I wish an opportunity would present itself. Sadly never does.

[normal person]

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot to improve on, but I'm just not sure how. Like, over the last few years I've been given a metric ton of suggestions and I've undertaken every single one and still come up short.

 

I'd start by not assigning so much weight to everything. You sound rigid, worried, and like you care a whole lot about everything. I understand that you actually do, but it seems like it's more noticeable to everyone than you think it is and it's probably coming off somewhat insecure and desperate, which will turn people way off. If I were you I'd chill out, do respectable/impressive/appealing/fun things and wait for the girls to come around. Works a lot better than fear and desperation.

 

 

I know the response to my upcoming statement would be to "not fear the outcome", but I guarantee if this scenario played out in the exact same way but with me instead of you, it would not have gone well. At all. In fact, I've done similar things before and it's often met with a "WTF" look.

 

So don't care if you get that look. Tweak things until you don't get it anymore. I'd say it's better than the alternative.

 

So, experience hasn't given me a great impression, in short.

 

But what you've been doing hasn't been working.

 

 

I'm only trying to defend myself in the sense that I want to make it known to people on here I am actually doing the things suggested. I've seen way too many examples of people asking for advice and not carrying it out.

 

Ok. But whatever you're doing or not doing, it isn't enough yet. I think you'll be fine once you can lose the insecurity and rigidity. It's just not sexy.

 

I actually wish that scenario would happen.

 

I know you're quasi-joking, but this is sort of the point that I'm illustrating. You act like you need someone to pour alcohol down your throat and push you to talk to some girls in a club. There's a universe of difference in appeal between the guy who can't do that on his own volition and the guy who can't. The only thing stopping the second guy from doing it something that only exists in his own mind. Just loosen up and do it. Yeah, you might feel a little goofy for a second but that one simple adjustment will make a world of difference. Low risk/high reward.

[LightWave93]

I'd start by not assigning so much weight to everything. You sound rigid, worried, and like you care a whole lot about everything. I understand that you actually do, but it seems like it's more noticeable to everyone than you think it is and it's probably coming off somewhat insecure and desperate, which will turn people way off. If I were you I'd chill out, do respectable/impressive/appealing/fun things and wait for the girls to come around. Works a lot better than fear and desperation.

 

I understand the logic behind it, but emotionally I can't handle it. 'n trust me, I want to be fun and outgoing (or rather, moreso), but it's hard basing my potential success with women on pure luck.

 

I'm never going to get laid like a pornstar, actor, musician or "Chad", but a decent amount of success with women wouldn't go a-miss.

 

Ok. But whatever you're doing or not doing, it isn't enough yet. I think you'll be fine once you can lose the insecurity and rigidity. It's just not sexy.

 

So in short, I've basically just got to go with the flow and not think about it?

[normal person]

I understand the logic behind it, but emotionally I can't handle it.

 

Well, you need to figure out how to. You're stuck in your own head. Just relax. If you give off the vibe of desperation or insecurity, it's just going to compound your problems. Try and live without making the pursuit of women and your lack of success with it the most salient thing in your life. Do you have another goal that you want to accomplish? I'd focus my mental energy on that, and if a nice girl happens comes along in the meantime, go with it. Otherwise if the first thing people think about you is that you're always desperately trying to find a girlfriend, it's just going to turn people off.

 

'n trust me, I want to be fun and outgoing (or rather, moreso), but it's hard basing my potential success with women on pure luck.

 

I'm not entirely sure what this means but you've got to let it go. You're again letting this issue poison your persona. You're saying you can't be fun and outgoing because you're worried about the perceptions or of something else. You can enjoy something or do it without worrying how it will affect your standing with women. That attitude alone might improve it, ironically.

 

So in short, I've basically just got to go with the flow and not think about it?

 

I would if I were you. I'd rather be around someone who was collected and carefree rather than someone who was always worried about women and so uptight he refused to dance at a club. I get the impression that this pursuit, desperation, insecurity, etc consumes a large part of your life and honestly, someone like that just doesn't sound like someone I'd want to hang around with, I can imagine others would feel the same. It'd be a like a pressure cooker.

[LightWave93]

Well, you need to figure out how to. You're stuck in your own head. Just relax. If you give off the vibe of desperation or insecurity, it's just going to compound your problems. Try and live without making the pursuit of women and your lack of success with it the most salient thing in your life. Do you have another goal that you want to accomplish? I'd focus my mental energy on that, and if a nice girl happens comes along in the meantime, go with it. Otherwise if the first thing people think about you is that you're always desperately trying to find a girlfriend, it's just going to turn people off.

 

Well, I do focus on my other stuff as well. I'm trying to bulk up a lil at the gym, do my studies and reestablish a social life. I'm able to take steps towards those, which is why they don't really bother me. Except social life, I struggle to make good friends really.

 

I'll try my best to let it go. I feel if I do I won't make any progress whatsoever, though. Then I'll be still having the same problem at 25, 26, 27 etc. I'm in for a long period of loneliness and a dry spell.

[Cookiesandough]

Hi. Normal_Person gave wonderful advice. Can't add much to it but this: I hope you don't take offense, but what struck me first about your profile content is that it is a little dry. I've seen profiles like that and they don't really appeal to me because...I hate to say the person sounds boring, but it's kind of that. I think it could use a little humor or something to spice it up. Maybe a little mystery.

 

That being said, I am not going to sit here and be like "I am a woman and we all like one thing so do this one thing we like" I'm sure there are plenty of women who are like 'why can't men just be more straight to the point. Say their jobs and height and MTBI and stop with all the sarcastic, stupid crap in their profiles'

 

I really think a little humor benefits everyone though.

 

One more thing. I'm a chick in your position. Looking to date around and maybe a hookup for once if the stars align. Just have fun. I never got that. Unless I drop my standards by like 6 points, hookups are difficult. I think it's a natural law. If you want something, just put yourself out of your misery, it will never happen. If you stop wanting it, it will become abundant to the point it annoys you. Maybe we just put off a different vibe (not desperate or try hard) when we don't want something.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[LightWave93]

Hi. Normal_Person gave wonderful advice. Can't add much to it but this: I hope you don't take offense, but what struck me first about your profile content is that it is a little dry. I've seen profiles like that and they don't really appeal to me because...I hate to say the person sounds boring, but it's kind of that. I think it could use a little humor or something to spice it up. Maybe a little mystery.

 

That being said, I am not going to sit here and be like "I am a woman and we all like one thing so do this one thing we like" I'm sure there are plenty of women who are like 'why can't men just be more straight to the point. Say their jobs and height and MTBI and stop with all the sarcastic, stupid crap in their profiles'

 

I really think a little humor benefits everyone though.

 

One more thing. I'm a chick in your position. Looking to date around and maybe a hookup for once if the stars align. Just have fun. I never got that. Unless I drop my standards by like 6 points, hookups are difficult. I think it's a natural law. If you want something, just put yourself out of your misery, it will never happen. If you stop wanting it, it will become abundant to the point it annoys you. Maybe we just put off a different vibe (not desperate or try hard) when we don't want something.

 

I did eventually change up my profile to add a bit of humor, though I haven't had matches so was probably for naught. The problem I've had (have?) is that I find it difficult to be humorous in text without something to bounce off of; by extension, it can be difficult to make conversation on these apps when the other party isn't putting much effort in. The two girls I have had good conversations on Tinder in the past were easy enough to talk to because they made an effort, and from there humor and good conversation flowed with ease. Plus when I get down in the dumps like this it's hard to think of anything funny.

 

Sorry to hear you're in a similar situation, and I really hope it works out for you in the end. It's a frustrating position to be in. I think for me personally it's made all the more frustrating when I've put the effort in (for myself, primarily) and I'm still in the same position I started off in. I'm not ugly, I work hard, I have hobbies; all good attributes and ultimately a more fulfilling life than "lol Netflix". In contrast I know lads that are apparently not as attractive as me, disrespectful etc who get laid regular enough, one even having had a threesome. Obviously they're doing something right that I'm not.

 

All-in-all I just want an active dating / sex life without having to not be myself, using manipulative techniques like PUA etc, and yet "being myself" seems to be my downfall. I'm 24, I've got two years left at university, and each passing day it feels like I'm going to be left without love / intimacy for a very, very long time.

[LightWave93]

Well I went to one event; spoke to a handful of people and they all seemed to receive me well. One of the girls there practically spent the entire time with me and I also walked her back home. It's good to get a reminder that people don't find me repulsive. I just wish people would make more of an effort to connect with me.

 

And, not to brag but some of you know I'm one to document my experiences...I had an awful lot of eye contact at the student bar tonight, too, which is really odd.

[MyOphelia]

I'm dyslexic and when posts are made where the person keeps quoting and replying in blocks, it's very difficult for me to read. So in advance, please forgive me if you or someone else has touched upon this.

 

For starters, let me say I have CPTSD, anxiety, and have physical disabilities (there's enough metal in my spine I could double as a T2). At any rate, I think that people who are not informed about issues such as social anxiety *can* sometimes, without knowing it, be dismissive and invalidate the work and progress we make. It's just very hard for a lot of "normies" to relate to, and what they take for granted with regards to social progress, for us are huge milestones.

 

I just wanted to put that out there, that you've got someone else here on the board who understands just how amplified these sensations feel. What the average person can adapt to or learn rather quickly can take us ages to integrate into our life. Things may be simple but rarely are they easy...

 

Just one simple example is people telling me to "just relax" or "smile more" (I have RBF from abuse and stress). My "stress" was so high that I was on 4 different high blood pressure meds. I never made progress going through motions because I didn't get at the *cause* of what (for example) was contributing to my anxiety. That took a LOT of very, very hard work, but by finally getting to the *cause* (and not taking a "tough love" type of approach), I'm now down to normal blood pressure and one half a tablet of just ONE of those four meds I used to be on. It's taken me 3 years to get this far.

 

Anyway, I'm just saying I get it, and I know how hard the work is. Keep it up and move at your own pace. I'm anxious around people as well in most circumstances, and what most people take for granted regarding normal social skills are totally and completely foreign to me.

[LightWave93]

I'm dyslexic and when posts are made where the person keeps quoting and replying in blocks, it's very difficult for me to read. So in advance, please forgive me if you or someone else has touched upon this.

 

For starters, let me say I have CPTSD, anxiety, and have physical disabilities (there's enough metal in my spine I could double as a T2). At any rate, I think that people who are not informed about issues such as social anxiety *can* sometimes, without knowing it, be dismissive and invalidate the work and progress we make. It's just very hard for a lot of "normies" to relate to, and what they take for granted with regards to social progress, for us are huge milestones.

 

I just wanted to put that out there, that you've got someone else here on the board who understands just how amplified these sensations feel. What the average person can adapt to or learn rather quickly can take us ages to integrate into our life. Things may be simple but rarely are they easy...

 

Just one simple example is people telling me to "just relax" or "smile more" (I have RBF from abuse and stress). My "stress" was so high that I was on 4 different high blood pressure meds. I never made progress going through motions because I didn't get at the *cause* of what (for example) was contributing to my anxiety. That took a LOT of very, very hard work, but by finally getting to the *cause* (and not taking a "tough love" type of approach), I'm now down to normal blood pressure and one half a tablet of just ONE of those four meds I used to be on. It's taken me 3 years to get this far.

 

Anyway, I'm just saying I get it, and I know how hard the work is. Keep it up and move at your own pace. I'm anxious around people as well in most circumstances, and what most people take for granted regarding normal social skills are totally and completely foreign to me.

 

Thank you for sharing such personal information. I'm glad things have got better for you, and I hope it they continue to improve!

 

For me, personally, it's been difficult to adapt to student life again. I've been three years out of education whereas most of my peers jumped from college to university. My social life prior to that was non-existent, and my social interactions were limited to work colleagues, customers and my girlfriend at the time. To begin university, especially in the state I was in, was a giant leap of faith which paid off massively but at times I still feel behind (and, sometimes, further ahead). You're right in that people don't understand; some of my friends can't seem to fathom how bad social anxiety can actually get, and others mistake such for nervousness (which we all get from time to time).

 

I know that there are things that hold me back when it comes to relationships / casual dating and are certainly need of improving, but as I've said before it's difficult to adjust when one's experience is lackluster at best. For starters, I do view people in "leagues", so if I see a woman who is particularly attractive I automatically establish the mindset that she would never been into me. As an example and I think I mentioned this somewhere else in the thread, I was dancing at a club the other day and there was a woman dancing nearby (at times, next to me) who was, in my eyes, out of my league. I'm talking amazing face, body, the way she moved etc. I get called attractive, or hot, or handsome, but I know I'm not over 6ft with big muscles, and so with women such as these I disqualify myself. That is NOT to say I would never actually approach or talk to a woman I perceived to be out of my league, only that I would never make a move. By extension, I don't even know what my league is. Out of the two women I have dated, one was a massive nerd and the other was the bookworm, albeit popular type. I'd rather view everyone as equal, but fact of the matter is these social / attraction "scales" are present in our society. That said, non of this really matters when women don't give me the time of day anyway.

 

I'm out tonight with a new crowd, and not particularly looking my best, so I'm going to try and focus on the whole "having fun" aspect. I know there will be doubts that will cross my mind, but that's just who I am I guess. All I know for certain is I'll be walking home alone.

[LightWave93]

I seriously give up.

 

Had a good night hanging out with new people but then we hit the club; at the end of the night it just hit me that not a single woman in the place ever looked at me. I was dancing, laughing, singing, enjoying myself and I was not once noticed.

 

I'm undesirable and I will never be the type of guy a girl wants to take home. People have been lying to me and I will just have to learn to accept I am not attractive / lovable.

[normal person]

I seriously give up.

 

Had a good night hanging out with new people but then we hit the club; at the end of the night it just hit me that not a single woman in the place ever looked at me. I was dancing, laughing, singing, enjoying myself and I was not once noticed.

 

If the women you like don't pursue you, you might have to pursue them. I think that's basically the case with most guys.

 

You've assumed that women have some kind of ultimate authority to deem you visible or invisible. You can always try to take matters into your own hands in the most respectable way possible. That's what most women are expecting you to do. It's not really they're normal M.O. to hit on a guy out of nowhere.

 

I'm undesirable and I will never be the type of guy a girl wants to take home. People have been lying to me and I will just have to learn to accept I am not attractive / lovable.

 

I know this isn't what you what you want to hear, but if you're looking for a girl to take you home, you're likely just going to feel hollow and unsatisfied. You'll feel equally as bad as you do now, just for different reasons. You sound like all your happiness perilously hinges on the validation of some drunken random. You should really talk to a psychologist, it doesn't sound healthy.

[LightWave93]

You sound like all your happiness perilously hinges on the validation of some drunken random. You should really talk to a psychologist, it doesn't sound healthy.

 

Not in the slightest, though I can see why you'd come to that conclusion. No, I'm just fed up of being an undesirable guy and not being able to work out why.

 

It bothers me every day, indeed has become an obsession, but I've never been one to simply drop things and "hope for the best". When I had crippling social anxiety, I took steps to resolve it. When I lacked friends, I did what I could to meet new people. Same goes for other areas of my life. Women and my inability to attract them seems to be the one thing in life I can't fix, and I want to know why.

[normal person]

Did you ever see the movie Hitch? Think about that scene where he remembers being in college and catching his girlfriend cheating on him, and then crying and desperately asking her "What did I do?! What did I do?!"

 

and then the guy she's cheating with takes some pity on him and says "You're doing it now!"

 

Consider this:

 

I'm just fed up of being an undesirable guy and not being able to work out why.

 

This is probably why:

 

I seriously give up.

 

I'm undesirable and I will never be the type of guy a girl wants to take home. People have been lying to me and I will just have to learn to accept I am not attractive / lovable.

 

More pointing out the fact I can't get so much as a kiss on a cheek, and I'm so undesirable women my age (in a culture very casual-sex driven) won't even consider me for a one-nighter.

 

That is all to say, the prospect of dancing with anyone in a club let alone a hottie is quite difficult for me to comprehend. I can't dance ... What the bloody hell do you say in a club?).

 

As I've said, you don't sound like you're projecting a particularly desirable, confident, persona. You sound insecure, desperate, unsure, and miserable. It's not attractive, people are unlikely going to want to be near someone like that, and it's probably more obvious than you think. Instead, you should be confident, self-assured, and content. I know this begs the question "How do I be confident and self-assured when I'm not?"

 

Act like you are until you are. I can't really tell you how to stop being insecure other than act secure, unworried, and like you have answers even if you don't. Don't show fear. Instead of worrying about dancing, just do it. Don't sweat and make excuses. The guy who dances and looks a little off, but enjoys himself is a lot more appealing than the grown adult who's literally too scared. You just need an attitude adjustment.

[LightWave93]

As I've said, you don't sound like you're projecting a particularly desirable, confident, persona. You sound insecure, desperate, unsure, and miserable. It's not attractive, people are unlikely going to want to be near someone like that, and it's probably more obvious than you think. Instead, you should be confident, self-assured, and content. I know this begs the question "How do I be confident and self-assured when I'm not?"

 

You seem to think I'm an unlikable guy, and whilst I've certainly had issues making friends I've also had plenty of good moments as well. Last night I went to this event and had plenty of people talking to me, and when a handful of us decided to get a taxi together out of the blue they all said they were glad I'd joined them because they think I'm cool and enjoy my company (all female, by the way). Hell I got introduced to a bunch of lads last night and they instantly bought me a drink!

 

It's women and attraction I really have a big issue with.

 

Act like you are until you are. I can't really tell you how to stop being insecure other than act secure, unworried, and like you have answers even if you don't. Don't show fear. Instead of worrying about dancing, just do it. Don't sweat and make excuses. The guy who dances and looks a little off, but enjoys himself is a lot more appealing than the grown adult who's literally too scared. You just need an attitude adjustment.

 

I'm a little confused so seeking clarification; do you think I don't go out and enjoy myself, instead sulking in a corner? Because I can assure you I don't. I go out to have a good time and I generally do, dancing around (albeit poorly ) and having a laugh with friends. Last night I honestly just didn't give a damn how I looked and even when people went off, I was dancing on my own with a smile on my face.

 

I don't really know what to say. You appear to think I'm a really boring, unsocial person when it couldn't be any further from the truth. I'm just not the most extroverted.

[Cookiesandough]

Op, do you expect women to fall all over you every time you go to the club because if so, you are in for disappointment. I'd say that happens to only a small percentage of guys often (top 5% aesthetics or fame, whatever ) The rest aren't approached and asked out by women they find attractive that often. Men are often required have to at least flirt then 'seal the deal'. When's the last time time you approached, talked/flirted, and asked a girl on a date?