Coming up on a sexless anniversary

[dichotomy]

I've left notes, cards, small gifts. I call her sweet things, make sure to kiss her good morning before I leave the house. I know she likes laughing, I'll make her laugh, be goofy in and out of public.

 

I've made the the bathroom and bedroom look like something from a magazine or movie, and offered hot baths and massages.

 

I feel like I've made herculean efforts to get nothing in return. I've honestly given up on them.

 

I've read MMSL, actually started reading it again last week. I think that's the route I'm going.

 

 

Yep that stuff above does not usually work. As men we hear that if we help out more around home, nicer, reduce her stress, romantic, etc.. the wife will get hot and bothered. Rarely.

 

I have read the same from women who dealt with husbands who lost interest - trying sexy clothes, romantic dinners, etc...

 

MMSL and Athol Kay are the way to try for now.

[Findausername]

This sounds like the problem might not be with the acts of romance/affection, then.

 

How was your sex life before this? Did she enjoy herself when you two were having sex?

 

Sex life was decent for a long time. We had kids, she had post parting, recovered, sex was ok, we made a cross country move both got depressed, I was drinking too much, sex really suffered, we both made recoveries, and moved again, but sex hasn't recovered.

[amaysngrace]

Isn't going a year without sex grounds for divorce?

 

Should be if it isn't.

[Els]

Yep that stuff above does not usually work. As men we hear that if we help out more around home, nicer, reduce her stress, romantic, etc.. the wife will get hot and bothered. Rarely.

 

I don't believe anyone has said that. Being a terrible partner does significantly decrease your chances of a good sex life, but that doesn't mean that being a decent partner automatically ensures that you have an amazing sex life. When it is suggested that someone do stuff that an adult in an adult relationship is generally expected to do (like "help out" in the house that you also live in), the assumption is that that might be the bottleneck preventing them from having a good sex life. Of course, it might not be.

 

You need a good relationship to have a good sex life, but that's not the ONLY thing needed. You also need to be sexually compatible with your partner, to give them a good time in bed and vice versa, to communicate about what each of you enjoys, etc.

 

This goes for both men and women - women aren't guaranteed a great sex life either just by being a decent partner, btw. Certainly not when you consider that frequency isn't the only thing that matters, not by a long shot.

 

Sex life was decent for a long time. We had kids, she had post parting, recovered, sex was ok, we made a cross country move both got depressed, I was drinking too much, sex really suffered, we both made recoveries, and moved again, but sex hasn't recovered.

 

Ah, okay. That is a pity. Has the MC and IC helped in any way?

[Bufo]

As you know you aren't the only 50+ man going through sexual rejection and apathy from a post-menopausal wife. Over a year ago I finally told my wife we were through sexually when after a six month gap she started acting like she wanted sex. That episode would have been the second time in a year.

 

I had been the band older, back and foot rubber, kisser for too long to tolerate it any longer. I just made sure she knew in advance that she shouldn't expect

Such attention any longer. She cried but I went back to doing what task I had been doing.

 

I feel better about myself after this confrontation. Like you I was being rejected too offer to feel good about myself.

 

But if you could menup with a solution bottle it and make

Millions. Call it Love Potion Number Nine.

[Trail Blazer]

I don't believe anyone has said that. Being a terrible partner does significantly decrease your chances of a good sex life, but that doesn't mean that being a decent partner automatically ensures that you have an amazing sex life. When it is suggested that someone do stuff that an adult in an adult relationship is generally expected to do (like "help out" in the house that you also live in), the assumption is that that might be the bottleneck preventing them from having a good sex life. Of course, it might not be.

 

You need a good relationship to have a good sex life, but that's not the ONLY thing needed. You also need to be sexually compatible with your partner, to give them a good time in bed and vice versa, to communicate about what each of you enjoys, etc.

 

This goes for both men and women - women aren't guaranteed a great sex life either just by being a decent partner, btw. Certainly not when you consider that frequency isn't the only thing that matters, not by a long shot.

 

 

 

Ah, okay. That is a pity. Has the MC and IC helped in any way?

How likely is a partner to admit to their significant other that they are no good in bed? I've asked my wife straight out before and she's always denied this as being a contributing factor. There's other reasons I've identified, and they are legit reasons for why sex has dwindled. I wouldn't call them excuses, but reasons a lot of people, especially women, identify as a reason for losing interest in sex.

 

The thing is I'm at a loss as to where to go from here myself. I'm guilty of checking out of the relationship at points, but I don't think I'm the only one who's guilty here. A lot of things my wife does which really annoy me, make me unhappy etc. they are all issues I see as distinctly separate from sex. That doesn't seem to be the case for woman, so I've tried jumping through every hoop I could find, still nothing. Going above and beyond, not just "my share" makes seemingly no difference.

 

At the end of the day I am 5 months in a dry spell which doesn't look like ending in the forseeable future. The OP is 2 years ongoing and that's a scary prospect. It's scary for me as a 32 year old verile and high sex-driven male who's craving for some physical AND emotional affection. It's really driving me crazy, but any time I articulate how that makes ME feel, I'm told I'm the selfish one who's onky thinking about himself while piling on unfair amounts of pressure by guilt tripping her.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Trail Blazer

[dichotomy]

Dealing with a dwindling sex life myself over the years I did alot of studying on the matter from reading posts and PM'ing people here on LS and other boards, to watching Ted Talks from sexual experts, to reading books.

 

Its a complicated thing - with many (MANY) reasons for why sex goes away.

 

The one reason that does not get discussed enough which I found interesting is that women can just loose interest in "same old nice husband". That is - the husband is still kind, affectionate, unselfish in bed as he always was and his wife just looses interest. Some women like new, strange, and others just get selfish and lazy. Just like some men (husbands) can be. This has also led to an increase in some women cheating for these reasons - just like some men. However I think that some women rather than cheat - just shut down that part of there needs.

 

Esther Perel has some great Ted talks on this.

 

Athol Kay has some interesting thoughts.

 

Also the book - what do women want? Adventures in the science of female desire.

[elaine567]

The one reason that does not get discussed enough which I found interesting is that women can just loose interest in "same old nice husband". That is - the husband is still kind, affectionate, unselfish in bed as he always was and his wife just looses interest. Some women like new, strange, and others just get selfish and lazy. Just like some men (husbands) can be. This has also led to an increase in some women cheating for these reasons - just like some men. However I think that some women rather than cheat - just shut down that part of there needs.

 

i also think that some women lose interest not necessarily because it is the "same old nice husband", but because there is some basic incompatibility either emotional and/or sexual.

 

I think for many women "love" is so very important and it seems to me that many women will put up with just about any old sex, from "one and done" to being thrown about the bedroom for hours, as she "loves" him and if he is happy then so is she.

 

BUT after a while (and often once the baby making days are out of the way), she then reassesses, she is older and wiser she feels she can now assert herself better and the "unsatisfactory" sex as far as she is concerned and/or the lack of an emotional connection starts to grate and annoy.

She may or may not bring it up, but unless there is a super-duper connection then her new found sexual honesty often just leads to fighting, hurt and defensiveness all around.

Women usually play the supporter of their man and will usually big him up sexually whether that is true or not - to then hear the sex isn't what she likes is a big deal and many men will not take it well, so she will often choose to stay silent.

 

She realises that the sex he wants is not the sex she wants (maybe never was in reality) and the "love" she wants is not the "love" he can give her.

She is not and maybe never really has been truly aroused by the sex he is offering AND she often does not feel particularly loved either, so it all becomes a chore and she starts saying no.

Once she starts saying no, it is easier to say no than to put up with the unsatisfactory sex, so she keeps saying no...

He, after usually a load of sulking and whining, then retreats into the man cave and all on the surface returns to "normal", but the sex is then all but dead...

 

Of course even with truly sexually compatible couples, life can get in the way and old hurts, old betrayals and old issues never really resolved can impact on a sex life massively.

[Trail Blazer]

i also think that some women lose interest not necessarily because it is the "same old nice husband", but because there is some basic incompatibility either emotional and/or sexual.

 

I think for many women "love" is so very important and it seems to me that many women will put up with just about any old sex, from "one and done" to being thrown about the bedroom for hours, as she "loves" him and if he is happy then so is she.

 

BUT after a while (and often once the baby making days are out of the way), she then reassesses, she is older and wiser she feels she can now assert herself better and the "unsatisfactory" sex as far as she is concerned and/or the lack of an emotional connection starts to grate and annoy.

She may or may not bring it up, but unless there is a super-duper connection then her new found sexual honesty often just leads to fighting, hurt and defensiveness all around.

Women usually play the supporter of their man and will usually big him up sexually whether that is true or not - to then hear the sex isn't what she likes is a big deal and many men will not take it well, so she will often choose to stay silent.

 

She realises that the sex he wants is not the sex she wants (maybe never was in reality) and the "love" she wants is not the "love" he can give her.

She is not and maybe never really has been truly aroused by the sex he is offering AND she often does not feel particularly loved either, so it all becomes a chore and she starts saying no.

Once she starts saying no, it is easier to say no than to put up with the unsatisfactory sex, so she keeps saying no...

He, after usually a load of sulking and whining, then retreats into the man cave and all on the surface returns to "normal", but the sex is then all but dead...

 

Of course even with truly sexually compatible couples, life can get in the way and old hurts, old betrayals and old issues never really resolved can impact on a sex life massively.

 

If this all true then men really have no hope long term. It's like women will put up with a lot more than they would by default just to have babies. Then after having babies things change and led by hormones, men are supposed to be in tune to that every step of the way or their sex life is doomed.

 

Of course this doesn't apply to every case as many women stay happily married forever, while some also don't have children at all yet also live happily married. But for the many cases that lose interest in sex completely, what you are saying sounds like a valid explanation.

 

As a guy it seems daunting that there's this very narrow band where women can be happy and content enough to want sex before that desire dissipates. For men it's a bioligical urge, so that often translates as being crude and animalistic to women when they see that sex and love is almost mutually exclusive.

 

Men for the most part are pretty simple. I see myself as simple and easy going. Perceptive? It's hard to tell. I'd like to think so since I make an effort to be observant and attentive to my wife and family's needs. But you don't know what you don't know, do you? I mean, if there's big chunks of subtle information that passes right over my head, then I'm in a bit of trouble.

 

That's where I feel I'm at. I'm missing critical things and no matter how hard I try, I'm on a hiding to nothing. Like a hamster on a wheel I feel I run myself ragged only to get nowhere. The feeling of despair sends my head into a frenzy. But often women themselves don't know what they want, they just want something different, so how are we ever going to satisfy women if they don't know what they want to be satisfied?

Edited October 6, 2017 by Trail Blazer

[dichotomy]

i also think that some women lose interest not necessarily because it is the "same old nice husband", but because there is some basic incompatibility either emotional and/or sexual.

 

She realises that the sex he wants is not the sex she wants (maybe never was in reality) and the "love" she wants is not the "love" he can give her.

She is not and maybe never really has been truly aroused by the sex he is offering AND she often does not feel particularly loved either, so it all becomes a chore and she starts saying no.

.

 

 

I am just going by my readings and studies

 

 

1) I dont think emotional connections have as much to do with women's pure sexual interest or passion as we thought. Not saying it does not for some - its just not the stereotypical thing we were all sold. this was the point in one or two books I read on women sexuality. They like raw casual unattached sex as much as some men do. Now your last point about sexual compatibility is something (outside of emotional connections). This is also whats hurting many men I have talked to - they (men/husbands) were told for decades - be nice - be emotionally connected - help around home - do your share on child raising - be romantic- focus on your wife's orgasm. However from what i hear - the sex is getting worse and our wives are cheating more than ever.

 

2) Now about this "maybe the sex was never good for her". This I find fascinating. Most cases I understand the sex was good - perhaps she faked it in the beginning ? Why? Why with women able to have as many partners as they wish these days and with more independence then ever - would they "settle" from day one for a sexually incompatible partner? Who owns that decision ? but back to my studies - it simply points to the ideas that women (not all) like new and different and get bored just like some men were accused of. I think I start seeing that in modern society - for men or women - monogamy and maintaining sexual interest with one partner is just a challenge, hard work. With women more empowered and independent then ever - they asking are asking why? I think the "no" in sex later in marriages is simply a middle ground of not cheating for women.

 

 

P.S.

 

One rant - a tidbit from an argument I had a long time ago with my wife on her wild single days Vs marriage. I was asking why things were being "taken off the table" with us/me - when she did them regularly with guys she just met. Her response - "it was dating - those things were expected ". In other words I had to if I wanted to continue dating in the open market with other women - I dont have to do that anymore. Which actually is a point brought up in other books on women sexuality - competition from other women can drive sexual passion. The best sex I had with my wife was 1) Dating her 2) After we got married and she thought I was cheating. Things got put back on the table quick in that last situation.

Edited October 7, 2017 by dichotomy

[elaine567]

I don't think women need emotional connection either to have good sex, but what I am saying is that with emotional connection a women will give her man sex even if she is not particularly interested. Take away the emotional connection and there is no need to give him sex, as there is no advantage for her.

Of course she may not need emotional connection per se, the marriage, the status, the money, the kids, the lifestyle... may be enough of a incentive on its own.

 

But once "cosy" in that he has probably more to lose than her in breaking up the marriage, then she may not see much point in giving him something she doesn't want to give him any more, if in reality she gets little or nothing out of it.

[elaine567]

2) Now about this "maybe the sex was never good for her". This I find fascinating. Most cases I understand the sex was good - perhaps she faked it in the beginning ? Why? Why with women able to have as many partners as they wish these days and with more independence then ever - would they "settle" from day one for a sexually incompatible partner?

 

OK but sex is not the be all and end all for many women. Just like looks, it is a bit of a bonus but not a fixed requirement. If he has a good career, is kind caring and generous and is basically a good stable person that can count for a lot more than being a "stud" in the bedroom.

Unless he is spectacularly "bad", he will be accepted.

 

...it simply points to the ideas that women (not all) like new and different and get bored just like some men were accused of. I think I start seeing that in modern society - for men or women - monogamy and maintaining sexual interest with one partner is just a challenge, hard work. With women more empowered and independent then ever - they asking are asking why? I think the "no" in sex later in marriages is simply a middle ground of not cheating for women.

 

I believe "cheaters" do not actually believe in monogamy, they may accept marriage and buy into it to an extent, but given a better or newer or more exciting option they will take it.

Some women who say no to sex from their husbands ARE looking for sex from other men, but some women are just not that fussed about sex at all and are very happy without it.

[elaine567]

 

One rant - a tidbit from an argument I had a long time ago with my wife on her wild single days Vs marriage. I was asking why things were being "taken off the table" with us/me - when she did them regularly with guys she just met. Her response - "it was dating - those things were expected ". In other words I had to if I wanted to continue dating in the open market with other women - I dont have to do that anymore. Which actually is a point brought up in other books on women sexuality - competition from other women can drive sexual passion. The best sex I had with my wife was 1) Dating her 2) After we got married and she thought I was cheating. Things got put back on the table quick in that last situation.

 

Seems to me many men fail to see the pressure some women are under to provide "exciting" and "good" sex early on in relationships. Yes, there are horny women desperate for sex, but there are also women who feel it is "expected of" them too, like your wife said she didn't do all that stuff because she wanted to, she did it because it was "expected" of her. once back in the real world she doesn't want to do all that "stuff".

 

Also all that desire and passion she showed when she thought you were cheating was not real desire and passion it was emotion and action borne out of desperation at the thought of losing you.

Competition with other women can sometimes truly fuel desire in some, but it is usually more due to distress and agony at the thought of loss, and acting out in an attempt to save the situation, rather than honest to goodness lust.

[elaine567]

But often women themselves don't know what they want, they just want something different, so how are we ever going to satisfy women if they don't know what they want to be satisfied?

 

I guess most women like most men, know exactly what they want, they just don't say it.

[oldbutcurious]

have you tried watching a romantic film (bordering on porn) after you shower together? maybe, she needs a kind of mental stimulation...

[dichotomy]

Seems to me many men fail to see the pressure some women are under to provide "exciting" and "good" sex early on in relationships. Yes, there are horny women desperate for sex, but there are also women who feel it is "expected of" them too, like your wife said she didn't do all that stuff because she wanted to, she did it because it was "expected" of her. once back in the real world she doesn't want to do all that "stuff".

 

Also all that desire and passion she showed when she thought you were cheating was not real desire and passion it was emotion and action borne out of desperation at the thought of losing you.

Competition with other women can sometimes truly fuel desire in some, but it is usually more due to distress and agony at the thought of loss, and acting out in an attempt to save the situation, rather than honest to goodness lust.

 

 

Women (and men) should lead authentic and honest versions of themselves at all stages.

 

Perhaps less issues later on in marriages.

 

"Men marry women hoping they will never change - women marry men hoping they will";)

[Just a Guy]

Hi OP, have you ever thought of asking for a separation/ divorce? If your needs are not being met and they are imperative for you what stops you from asking for divorce? I don't know your situation and financial or other reasons may preclude separation/ divorce. If they do then ask your wife for an open marriage. No point hashing too many theories about the why's and why nots. That won't get you the sex you need. Just do something and be done with it. However don't cheat. Warm wishes.

[rmurphey15]

I just celebrated 2 years no sex.... Actually it is awesome because she cant control me or I don't make decisions based on making her mad and I don't get to have sex. Also I am just waiting for the moment I can have an emotional affair.

[Els]

How likely is a partner to admit to their significant other that they are no good in bed? I've asked my wife straight out before and she's always denied this as being a contributing factor. There's other reasons I've identified, and they are legit reasons for why sex has dwindled. I wouldn't call them excuses, but reasons a lot of people, especially women, identify as a reason for losing interest in sex.

 

The thing is I'm at a loss as to where to go from here myself. I'm guilty of checking out of the relationship at points, but I don't think I'm the only one who's guilty here. A lot of things my wife does which really annoy me, make me unhappy etc. they are all issues I see as distinctly separate from sex. That doesn't seem to be the case for woman, so I've tried jumping through every hoop I could find, still nothing. Going above and beyond, not just "my share" makes seemingly no difference.

 

At the end of the day I am 5 months in a dry spell which doesn't look like ending in the forseeable future. The OP is 2 years ongoing and that's a scary prospect. It's scary for me as a 32 year old verile and high sex-driven male who's craving for some physical AND emotional affection. It's really driving me crazy, but any time I articulate how that makes ME feel, I'm told I'm the selfish one who's onky thinking about himself while piling on unfair amounts of pressure by guilt tripping her.

 

It's hard for anyone to tell you what exactly is the problem in your marriage because there are so many possibilities, and all we have is a bit of text to go on. It's possible that it's your attitude or poor sex that is causing it, but equally possible that you two are just not compatible or that she just doesn't desire sex with you and it's not your fault.

 

The most generic advice I can offer is to think back about what was different at the start of your relationship, and try to go back to that.

[maniamtired]

Women are so selfish! If you don't want sex, then why not let someone else have it? I am going through this thing with my wife - she has 0 sex drive, very frustrating. I get sex whenever I want, but it's not enjoyable, she just lays there. She never initiates it, so I know that she is not interested, despite whatever sounds she makes. But then if we go and find someone who actually *does* want it, then we are liars and cheaters and scum of the earth. If you don't want it, let someone else have it, you selfish $@!#

 

Yes this is a generalization, and I know there are exceptions.

[xenawarriorprincess]

Hell, it's been over a year and a half for me (and that's because she was drunk). If you don't count that one, then it's been over two years. Now, to be fair, we are both 50 and have two little kids and nowhere to dump them off. However, my wife is also very lazy.

 

We are actually going to be kid free next weekend - we'll see what happens. Methinks that by some coincidence she'll get her period.

 

Periods are a great excuse for Shower Sex!

[Findausername]

I don't know where to go with this.

 

We've had a history that could be a made for TV movie, but I've honestly believed years of counseling and therapy have put it behind us.

 

My goal this weekend is to ask if she sees us married forever, or just until the kids are out of the house. I can't live like this forever, and even a few more years of this is intolerable.

[Marc878]

Evidently from what you've posted/tried she just doesn't care or get it.

 

Life is short to be tethered to this.

 

Better think about going your own way. Many linger years waiting on a sliver of hope that never comes.

 

If it were me I'd move into a hard 180 and start making plans.

 

What you've been doing isn't getting you much.

 

Maybe you need to wake up to reality.

 

Lots of excuses but none valid.

[elaine567]

.

 

Lots of excuses but none valid.

 

Well we do not actually know that.

The OP says there has been enough drama in the marriage to write a TV movie about it, so whilst he may feel that it is all now OK and water under the bridge, that may not be how she feels about it.

Many men, it seems to me, feel that a problem once apparently "resolved", is forgotten, done and dusted, women tend not to think like that.

I guess she is still harbouring a lot of resentment, sadness and hurt from "the bad old days".

[Findausername]

Well we do not actually know that.

The OP says there has been enough drama in the marriage to write a TV movie about it, so whilst he may feel that it is all now OK and water under the bridge, that may not be how she feels about it.

Many men, it seems to me, feel that a problem once apparently "resolved", is forgotten, done and dusted, women tend not to think like that.

I guess she is still harbouring a lot of resentment, sadness and hurt from "the bad old days".

 

I don't think she's resentful. She's tells me often that she's thankful we're still married and proud of the hard work we've done to stay together.