I don't even want him! But can't stop thinking about it.

[jenkins95]

Hi (((Sparkling Storm)))

 

Sorry to hear you are in such torment. Don't worry! You are just human and many of us know EXACTLY what you are going through....and that you will be OK eventually, even if you can't see it now. So many of us have been there! You are not alone! And you are not a bad person, you just made some bad choices (join the club )!

 

As a former wayward MM, I relate to so much of what so many of the other posters are saying. I am particularly aligned with deadsoul, bittersweetie and southern sun, as we have been through very similar experiences (although they are women and I am a man) and we are generally of very similar mind-sets and have come to very similar conclusions about our As and of life in general.

 

I can only echo what they, and others, are saying. Anyone from the outside world who has no experience of this kind of thing looking at your situation objectively would be screaming at you to get over it, forget him and go 100% NC now. But those of us that have been where you are right now, addicted, vulnerable and dependent, know how tortuous this path can seem and how utterly terrifying the prospect of permanent NC with someone you have built an amazing, albeit inappropriate, connection with is, even though you yourself also know at some level that it is the only way forward if you are to avoid blowing up your world and your family's. Your behaviour may be illogical to anyone looking in, but so would that of a heroin addict, and I don't believe that it is going too far to make an analogy between the addictiveness of an affair to that of heroin.

 

I know it is not easy to read or accept, but sadly I agree about the 30 day thing. Just as I would not advise a heroin addict (sorry to keep harping on with this analogy) to take a 30 day break from his addiction and then cautiously take a small dose, neither would I suggest this approach to someone trying to break out of an affair. The only reliable way to break free, unfortunately, is complete cold turkey. Apart from anything else, while he is on the scene at all, it will be very difficult for you to reconnect with your husband and give 100% to your family. Do it for them, if you can't yet do it just for yourself.

 

As for your hobby, well it may be best to look for an alternative club to persue this - even seeing him there amongst lots of other people, in what would outwardly appear as a perfectly respectful context, could feed your addiction and keep you bound to the A - it also keeps temptation in your path. LS is here to hold your hand and hopefully you have a support network IRL to get you through this (even if they don’t know exactly what they are supporting you through)!

 

Wishing you nothing but the best. x

 

Keep posting.

Edited October 13, 2017 by jenkins95

[malvern99]

Hi (((Sparkling Storm)))

 

I know it is not easy to read or accept, but sadly I agree about the 30 day thing. Just as I would not advise a heroin addict (sorry to keep harping on with this analogy) to take a 30 day break from his addiction and then cautiously take a small dose, neither would I suggest this approach to someone trying to break out of an affair. The only reliable way to break free, unfortunately, is complete cold turkey. Apart from anything else, while he is on the scene at all, it will be very difficult for you to reconnect with your husband and give 100% to your family. Do it for them, if you can't yet do it just for yourself.

 

Keep posting.

 

I agree with this with one caveat. Addiction is virtually impossible to break without support in real life. Without someone holding OP accountable for her actions, this affair will just continue to simmer. As much as she wishes it would, it won't just go away. She needs to deal with this like a responsible adult and do the right things. Anything less is just working around the edges and ultimately nothing will change. Good luck OP.

[Sparkling Storm]

I almost bolted from this thread. I looked up how to delete it and my username because I was so shamed by some of the responses. I know I deserve everything that was said but it was very very hard to read. I'd like to thank the posters who have been through this and made me feel like I'm not alone in my madness.

 

Jenkins95 - you likened it to a heroin addiction. I have no idea what that feels like but it really made sense to me. The other night I was almost frantic with the urge to contact him. I wrote an email numerous times then deleted it. I threw my phone across the bed, fighting the demons. And I didn't do it. One day at a time, that's all I can do right now.

[Imajerk17]

I almost bolted from this thread. I looked up how to delete it and my username because I was so shamed by some of the responses. I know I deserve everything that was said but it was very very hard to read. I'd like to thank the posters who have been through this and made me feel like I'm not alone in my madness.

 

Jenkins95 - you likened it to a heroin addiction. I have no idea what that feels like but it really made sense to me. The other night I was almost frantic with the urge to contact him. I wrote an email numerous times then deleted it. I threw my phone across the bed, fighting the demons. And I didn't do it. One day at a time, that's all I can do right now.

 

You also need to tell your husband that right now his wife craves to have her cake and eat it too.

 

Right now he and your kids are living a lie, thanks to your actions. When you see the devastation your decisions caused *them*, you'll get over yourself and your own pain pretty fast.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Imajerk17

[deadsoul]

I almost bolted from this thread. I looked up how to delete it and my username because I was so shamed by some of the responses. I know I deserve everything that was said but it was very very hard to read. I'd like to thank the posters who have been through this and made me feel like I'm not alone in my madness.

 

Jenkins95 - you likened it to a heroin addiction. I have no idea what that feels like but it really made sense to me. The other night I was almost frantic with the urge to contact him. I wrote an email numerous times then deleted it. I threw my phone across the bed, fighting the demons. And I didn't do it. One day at a time, that's all I can do right now.

 

That's the key, one day at a time. And yeah, it is shameful to read some of the responses, but try to use them in a positive way. I wear the big scarlet A and it is like an addiction. I've never been addicted to a substance, but I treat this like an addiction.

 

Post here instead of contacting him. It does get easier, I promise. And read posts by Jenkins, Southern Sun and Midnight Blue. They've all been through it. Reading that others have experienced this helps, it truly does.

[BourneWicked]

Good job on the not sending the email that you wanted to send... as you say, one day at a time.

 

Another point to this that I think is frequently disregarded in affairs: status quo bias

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_quo_bias

"Status quo bias is an emotional bias; a preference for the current state of affairs. The current baseline (or status quo) is taken as a reference point, and any change from that baseline is perceived as a loss. Status quo bias should be distinguished from a rational preference for the status quo ante, as when the current state of affairs is objectively superior to the available alternatives, or when imperfect information is a significant problem. A large body of evidence, however, shows that status quo bias frequently affects human decision-making.

 

Status quo bias interacts with other non-rational cognitive processes such as loss aversion, existence bias, endowment effect, longevity, mere exposure, and regret avoidance. Experimental evidence for the detection of status quo bias is seen through the use of the reversal test. A vast amount of experimental and field examples exist. Behaviour in regard to retirement plans, health, and ethical choices show evidence of the status quo bias."

 

If you've got a decent family life AND get to eat cake on a daily basis, why the hell would you throw out the cake?

 

So those not involved in affairs can't fathom why people continue. Those in affairs can only perceive the horrible loss of their current set up (normal life + cake) and don't perceive that they risk losing all of it. Loss aversion makes us want to maintain the current.

 

And this article:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/after-service/201609/how-powerful-is-status-quo-bias

 

Enjoy this line:

 

Even when we understand our current path is no longer beneficial or no longer makes us happy, we must still overcome the natural urge to stay on the path unless the alternative is sufficiently attractive. In order for us to readily pursue an alternate path, we must believe that the alternative is clearly superior to the current state of affairs.

 

So status quo bias explains why it's so hard to move away from the affair, and also why it's so rare that MM/MW leave their spouses...

[MuddyFootprints]

Sometimes the most difficult things to read or hear are the things we most need to read or hear.

 

You don't have to post, but I encourage you to continue to read. Somewhere in there is a harsh truth you need to face.

[Imajerk17]

I know the responses from people who've never been there will be like - OMG!! How could you!! You are soooo selfish!! You are putting yourself over your kidssssss.

 

And I guess you are. All of us waywards did at some point.

 

I cannot explain how we can be told we are going to lose everything and STILL DO those things. I think there is a very large amount of denial going on. Like major head in sand stuff. We just do NOT get it. We do not understand the hurt and devastation our actions will cause. And sometimes, even after seeing some of the hurt and devastation, we keep going. Because we still really don't get it. Seeing it is not experiencing it. I am betting that betrayed spouses have NO CLUE of the pain they will feel until they feel it. Nobody gets it.

 

I do not think having an affair makes you an automatic bad person. I think it's pretty easy to get into one, actually. If we don't have our boundaries up, it can happen. Once you are in...that's the trouble. Getting out of an affair takes FAR more effort than getting into one.

 

See I admit to actually having a lot of trouble agreeing with this. Someone in an affair KNOWS what they are doing is wrong, KNOWS the pain it will cause their loved ones (although maybe not quite to the true extent). Yet they do it anyway.

 

What is the definition of evil again?

 

OP is right now driving a truck into her family home. Lots and lots of valuable things are going to get smashed. She knows her husband and kids are about to get run over and her husband will likely suffer injuries he will never recover from. She needs to go from merely "feeling bad about it" and blaming brain chemistry, OM, "good girl" upbringing, Mercury being in retrograde, whatever--which does no one a lick of good--and she needs to feel the urgency to actually put the brakes on and get out of the truck.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Imajerk17

[jah526]

See I admit to actually having a lot of trouble agreeing with this. Someone in an affair KNOWS what they are doing is wrong, KNOWS the pain it will cause their loved ones (although maybe not quite to the true extent). Yet they do it anyway.

 

What is the definition of evil again?

 

OP is right now driving a truck into her family home. Lots and lots of valuable things are going to get smashed. She knows her husband and kids are about to get run over and her husband will likely suffer injuries he will never recover from. She needs to go from merely "feeling bad about it" and blaming brain chemistry, OM, "good girl" upbringing, Mercury being in retrograde, whatever--which does no one a lick of good--and she needs to feel the urgency to actually put the brakes on and get out of the truck.

 

I think the key word in that sentence was "automatically". There are all kinds of situations people find themselves in and there are different degrees along the spectrum. Far end of the spectrum I would say was the MM I was involved with - at the end he just basically came out and said if what he was doing made him a bad person then so what. I mean, how can you even argue with that? Other end of the spectrum may be people who have a drunken ONS.

 

I think most OW, or at least many of the ones here on this board, don't happily go along with the affair. There is a conflict between what the heart wants and what we know to be socially unacceptable behavior. This doesn't make someone a bad person. It makes them human.

 

I'm not trying to justify affairs. I just think there's a difference between someone who wants what they want and doesn't give a crap who it hurts, and someone who is fighting their own impulses and trying to do the right thing.

[malvern99]

I think most OW, or at least many of the ones here on this board, don't happily go along with the affair. There is a conflict between what the heart wants and what we know to be socially unacceptable behavior. This doesn't make someone a bad person. It makes them human.

 

I wouldn't paint with as broad a brush like Imajerk17, but I believe there is a grain of truth in what he says.

 

Part of being human at a very basic level is being capable of admitting when we do wrong, and attempting to make amends for our wrongs to the people our actions or lack thereof wounded. No one is expected to be perfect because as you said, we're all human. We all make terrible mistakes at some point in our lives. How we deal with those mistakes though is what separates the good from the bad. The good will fess up to those they wounded and face the consequences of their actions like adults should. The not so good, well, we know how that goes. They only care about themselves... no one else matters. Sure, they'll make pious noises about how they love their wife/husband or kids, but their actions only scream "I LOVE MYSELF AND MY WANTS/NEEDS SUPERSEDE EVERYONE ELSE'S". When words and actions are opposed to each other, always believe the actions.

 

Edit: I'm sorry if this is a thread jack.

Edited October 16, 2017 by malvern99

[DKT3]

I think the key word in that sentence was "automatically". There are all kinds of situations people find themselves in and there are different degrees along the spectrum. Far end of the spectrum I would say was the MM I was involved with - at the end he just basically came out and said if what he was doing made him a bad person then so what. I mean, how can you even argue with that? Other end of the spectrum may be people who have a drunken ONS.

 

I think most OW, or at least many of the ones here on this board, don't happily go along with the affair. There is a conflict between what the heart wants and what we know to be socially unacceptable behavior. This doesn't make someone a bad person. It makes them human.

 

I'm not trying to justify affairs. I just think there's a difference between someone who wants what they want and doesn't give a crap who it hurts, and someone who is fighting their own impulses and trying to do the right thing.

No difference because the results are the same.

 

I can personally say it wouldn't make a difference if my wife said her affair was a case of her believing she deserves it loved it or was in agony the entire time. Fact remains she did it.

 

A drunken one night is a completely different animal then an affair. An affair involves waking up knowing that you will betray your spouse at some point that day, planning to betray your marriage, then going through with it and repeating it over again the next day and the next day and the next week and month. How can someone do this, yet hold on to the "not a bad person" label.

[DKT3]

Another thing OP, you mentioned that even after reading the fallout of others here on the site it's not enough to pull you out of it. That is because even with knowing what's possible you don't truly grasp that it's the path you're on. I believe that you think you can somehow avoid the fallout. But it's impossible, you are already experiencing the fallout. Even on the small chance it goes undisclosed it will have a negative Impact on both your relationship with your husband and kids. Affairs create a barrier in your other interpersonal relationships.

[malvern99]

Another thing OP, you mentioned that even after reading the fallout of others here on the site it's not enough to pull you out of it.

 

It's not enough to pull her out of it because at this point in OP's life, no one else matters. Only her desires have currency to her. That may sound harsh, but it doesn't make it any less true.

[MuddyFootprints]

It's more about understanding the love / hate relationship we have with ourselves.

 

I don't think anyone who truly cares about themselves would put themselves through the emotional turmoil an affair causes.

[deadsoul]

See I admit to actually having a lot of trouble agreeing with this. Someone in an affair KNOWS what they are doing is wrong, KNOWS the pain it will cause their loved ones (although maybe not quite to the true extent). Yet they do it anyway.

 

What is the definition of evil again?

 

OP is right now driving a truck into her family home. Lots and lots of valuable things are going to get smashed. She knows her husband and kids are about to get run over and her husband will likely suffer injuries he will never recover from. She needs to go from merely "feeling bad about it" and blaming brain chemistry, OM, "good girl" upbringing, Mercury being in retrograde, whatever--which does no one a lick of good--and she needs to feel the urgency to actually put the brakes on and get out of the truck.

 

So... let me see if I'm understanding you. Cheaters are evil? Are addicts evil too? I mean, they are also driving a truck into the family home.

 

You are having a hard time agreeing with SS saying, "I do not think having an affair makes you an automatic bad person."

 

But you take it a step further than bad and say that having an affair makes you evil?

 

OP has made some bad choices and decisions, but I don't think that makes her evil. Have you ever made bad choices or decisions? No? You're perfect? How nice for you.

 

I ask this out of genuine curiosity. Do you really believe that these kinds of comments are helpful? OP is in a bad situation and is obviously reaching out because she wants to change her "evil ways." (sarcasm, folks).

 

The sad part is there is truth to your comment that she is driving a truck into the family home. I believe, for many of us "evil cheaters," (sarcasm again, folks), we DO have to hit bottom and unfortunately we destroy the ones we love in our self-destructive paths.

 

There is really no "justification" for having an affair. I can try to be helpful and supportive to a person even when I don't agree with what they are doing. Or I can be a jerk because maybe I feel bad and have to project my sadness and anger onto someone else.

 

Just to bring this back on track, OP, I hope you are able to go full NC and stop this path you're on before you hit complete bottom. Stopping is not easy. I am in counseling and it is helping me a lot. Maybe that's something that's an option for you too. I hope you'll keep posting.

[malvern99]

It's more about understanding the love / hate relationship we have with ourselves.

 

I don't think anyone who truly cares about themselves would put themselves through the emotional turmoil an affair causes.

 

I respect your opinion. I only wish that that quest for understanding did not have to involve so much collateral damage for people who had no say in decisions that will forever alter their lives.

 

The emotional turmoil only becomes a problem after the self destructive choices have been made. It is more a result of the affair than a cause.

[DKT3]

So... let me see if I'm understanding you. Cheaters are evil? Are addicts evil too? I mean, they are also driving a truck into the family home.

 

You are having a hard time agreeing with SS saying, "I do not think having an affair makes you an automatic bad person."

 

But you take it a step further than bad and say that having an affair makes you evil?

 

OP has made some bad choices and decisions, but I don't think that makes her evil. Have you ever made bad choices or decisions? No? You're perfect? How nice for you.

 

I ask this out of genuine curiosity. Do you really believe that these kinds of comments are helpful? OP is in a bad situation and is obviously reaching out because she wants to change her "evil ways." (sarcasm, folks).

 

The sad part is there is truth to your comment that she is driving a truck into the family home. I believe, for many of us "evil cheaters," (sarcasm again, folks), we DO have to hit bottom and unfortunately we destroy the ones we love in our self-destructive paths.

 

There is really no "justification" for having an affair. I can try to be helpful and supportive to a person even when I don't agree with what they are doing. Or I can be a jerk because maybe I feel bad and have to project my sadness and anger onto someone else.

 

Just to bring this back on track, OP, I hope you are able to go full NC and stop this path you're on before you hit complete bottom. Stopping is not easy. I am in counseling and it is helping me a lot. Maybe that's something that's an option for you too. I hope you'll keep posting.

 

Listen, I personally would NOT say evil. After all I divorced but remarried my wife. Yet, let's be honest....good people don't have affairs. Cheat? Maybe. As I said cheating, say ONS or during a two week business trip is one thing. But to have a long emotionally tangled physical connection is not something good people do. It requires too much deception, too much energy to be taken away from your family. Placing them is horrible positions. Sadly, most times without giving it much thought. It show an "evil" selfishness that says I can do or have whatever I want no matter the price my spouse and children have to pay.

 

I know it's hard to face and accept because no one wants to view themselves as bad or "evil". Cheaters wreak people who love and trust them and do say for sustained periods of time. Affairs are abusive, being such would we be having this argument about a man who is abusive to his wife mentally or physically? Of course not. Affairs are no different.

 

You ask does it help to point these things out or share these views...I say yes, albeit it requires the the message is delivered with the right timing.

 

To truly improve ones self it's a must that we face hard truths about ourselves. Hard true is, good people don't have affairs. Good people make mistakes and bad decisions, but they don't repeat them everyday for months and years.

 

Does it mean they can't correct the course? Of course not. But they are not good people while having affairs..no, good people don't have affairs.

[MuddyFootprints]

I don't disagree. Unhealthy coping mechanisms and the erosion of personal boundaries are things that we should recognize.

 

If only we were all so crystal clear.

[MuddyFootprints]

DKT -

 

High five to lovin' for putting up with you, too.

[malvern99]

I ask this out of genuine curiosity. Do you really believe that these kinds of comments are helpful? OP is in a bad situation and is obviously reaching out because she wants to change her "evil ways." (sarcasm, folks).

 

I can't speak for the poster you are addressing, but I will say this. Uncomfortable truths (even when inartfully presented) are more valuable to OP situation than empty platitudes that seek to provide comfort. Uncomfortable truths often lead to introspection. "Comfort" tends to normalize bad behavior.

 

The man who cheats on his family and risks his spouse's health should not be coddled and told everything will be alright if he buries his misdeeds. If he asks for opinions on an online forum, he can't then get upset when people hold a mirror in front of him and reflect his deeds in words to him.

[DKT3]

DKT -

 

High five to lovin' for putting up with you, too.

 

Absolutely, she is amazing.

[deadsoul]

Listen, I personally would NOT say evil. After all I divorced but remarried my wife. Yet, let's be honest....good people don't have affairs. Cheat? Maybe. As I said cheating, say ONS or during a two week business trip is one thing. But to have a long emotionally tangled physical connection is not something good people do. It requires too much deception, too much energy to be taken away from your family. Placing them is horrible positions. Sadly, most times without giving it much thought. It show an "evil" selfishness that says I can do or have whatever I want no matter the price my spouse and children have to pay.

 

I agree with you that cheating is selfish. I took offense with the word evil. As for the good people comment, everyday I felt like a horrible person doing what I was doing. I don’t want sympathy. It is hard for me to say this, but I am a good person who made some very bad choices. Being a “good” or “bad” person is subjective to who is judging you.

 

I know it's hard to face and accept because no one wants to view themselves as bad or "evil". Cheaters wreak people who love and trust them and do say for sustained periods of time. Affairs are abusive, being such would we be having this argument about a man who is abusive to his wife mentally or physically? Of course not. Affairs are no different.

 

You ask does it help to point these things out or share these views...I say yes, albeit it requires the the message is delivered with the right timing.

Completely agree here.

 

To truly improve ones self it's a must that we face hard truths about ourselves. Hard true is, good people don't have affairs. Good people make mistakes and bad decisions, but they don't repeat them everyday for months and years.

 

Yes. Facing hard truths about myself has been tough in this process. I wasn’t a good person to do the things I did. But my argument here is that we all do things that are “good” and “not good” so when we do all good things are we good? When we do bad things are we only bad? I want so badly to believe I am a bad person. Because I believed that for years. So for example, you telling me I’m bad is like a reaffirmation if my inner beliefs. But I’m learning to refuse to let other people decide if I’m good or bad. I am human. I make mistakes. I am trying to learn from my mistakes. If people feel better by labeling me or anyone else “good” or “bad,” I guess that’s on them. My actions were bad. No doubt about it. They were horrible. But those actions don’t define me. My journey to improve myself does. I

 

Does it mean they can't correct the course? Of course not. But they are not good people while having affairs..no, good people don't have affairs.

 

I own and take responsibility for everything I’ve done. That doesn’t make me a good person either. It makes me a flawed human. I can live with that.

[Imajerk17]

I stand by what I wrote 100 percent. No apologies.

 

If you go back and reread, you'll see that I didn't call anyone evil. I said it was evil to knowingly keep causing others severe harm. (Do you disagree w this?) It's more than "selfish", by the way.

 

I ask this out of genuine curiosity. Do you really believe that these kinds of comments are helpful? OP is in a bad situation and is obviously reaching out because she wants to change her "evil ways." (sarcasm, folks).

 

See but the above is just classic Wayward Thinking though. It shows a lack of responsibility for your own choices and decisions. OP is not "in a bad situation", a bad situation is when you lose your job or when you find out you have cancer. Instead OP's problem is that she DECIDED to keep having sex with another man besides her husband, the consequences to her poor unsuspecting husband and kids be damned. Let's call things for what they are here.

 

Again, Its not my intention to trigger anyone here, but I see what I wrote as the truth. Meanwhile OP needs to be hit w a crowbar--either by seeing the devastation on husband and children's faces, or being so disgusted by her own behaviour, to WAKE UP and snap the hell out of it. Being told 'there there you're only human here's a blanket and a cup of warm milk' aint gonna cut it.

 

 

ETA: WHEN her husband finds out (not if), he will be saying many many more harsh things to OP than I ever said. Just saying.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Imajerk17

[Vivir]

I only wish that that quest for understanding did not have to involve so much collateral damage for people who had no say in decisions that will forever alter their lives.

 

The emotional turmoil only becomes a problem after the self destructive choices have been made. It is more a result of the affair than a cause.

 

Malvern, I wish this, too.

 

And I can feel my unsympathetic and angry (and possibly realistic?) line of thinking wanting to lash out by saying, "A LOT of quests altering our lives - where we have little or no say in decisions - involve others making decisions, many overtly callous, that produce a TON of collateral damage!" World governments come to mind. The person that almost hit my car doing 90mph comes to mind.

 

But I know that this is comparing apples to oranges. I am not married, but I have learned, albeit by having been involved in an affair, that deciding to accept such a responsibility as being married means that I would have to have boundaries to protect at least two people as best as I could.

 

In my experience, the emotional turmoil became a problem after the self-destructive choices had been made. One would have to be gifted with The Sight or at least amazing foresight most of the time to be able to realize real consequences before actions are taken. Before the choice, I had no real idea of the significant cost(s) of my choice(s). There are some things I don't think I would've learned without having been involved in an affair. Of course, this path to learning was not at all ideal. And I wish both of us had made different choices.

[Bittersweetie]

Southern, keep taking it one day at a time. That is the best you can do right now, and sticking with it will make you stronger. Also, IC would be beneficial to you right now.

 

Re: this site. I have been here for many years. And I have found that, even years after my A and d-day, there are posts that piss me off. Those posts usually address an issue I haven't fully dealt with yet (which is why they piss me off!). Then I can think about the issue and address it. So think of it this way...if the posts are making you mad/uncomfortable, then they're probably doing their job.

 

Like I said earlier, you have a choice to be who you want to be moving forward. Your past choices are all on you and you now have a chance to learn and change direction. It isn't easy. It's really freaking hard facing all of the hurtful and selfish things one has done. You can either say "F This" and walk away or stick your hands in the dirt and start building a new wall of integrity one brick at a time. It's up to you.

 

Good luck, I am sending you strength.