Non-traditional relationships and assoiciated stigma

[Kamille]

I was loving it but as you saw it got closed

 

If anything the whole discussion invigorated me big time. I’m not convincing strangers - I’m convincing myself through the discussion here and elsewhere.

 

One thing I’d say: I’m incredibly grateful I am capable again to experience wide amplitudes of emotions, I was very concerned this is over for me because of aging. That’s why I was ok with settling into ‘traditional’ lifestyle in the past years...

 

Goodness, My grandfather fell in love at the age of 72. I'm glad you're allowing yourself to experience these emotions. Just believe me when I say: they are perhaps rare, but they aren't as rare as you seem to believe it is.

 

The only difference is that, as you get older, the chance that you meet a single guy for whom you feel this who also happens to be single will get fewer and far between. Finding someone where the feeling is mutual is, as I have said, amazing. I think that's what everyone here wishes for you. It would be great if you could acknowledge that.

 

You said on your other thread that you remain open to dating others. Great. So how much of your headspace is your platonic friend taking? How often do you think about him? Does that leave room for others?

[No_Go]

undying love to a garden gnome :lmao:

 

Yeah, the kid factor is serious. I think for better or worse, there is no way to happen naturally at this point. I'm almost 33. Meeting a man today shoots me at 35 for start of pregnancy attempts. Time is already out.

 

I'd NOT go for the donor's route. Mother+father are necessary IMO as well. I'll just buy a couple of years by egg freezing and then settle with someone who I think is fit for father's duties at some point.

 

I think it was Judge Judy who said

 

"Women do stupid things when they're in love. That's why I've been in business for so long"

 

 

No one would really care if you declared your undying love to a garden gnome, but when you put something on a forum, and nothing really makes much sense, then it's human nature that people are going to pick it apart...

 

And I've heard you mention several times about wanting kids...Whether you think it or not, freeze eggs or not, as someone who's walked that walk, you are at the age where you better make it happen soon..very soon....And no, I don't believe it's proper to just find a sperm donor and go about it on your own...It's better for the child to have a mother and a father...So if those are your goals, why waste time(that you don't have that much of) with something that won't truly fulfill your life goals??

 

Just some thoughts..

 

TFY

[No_Go]

Yeah I think it is not aging in a sense I've passed the upper treshold (as you said there is no upper one) but aging in a sense that I entered the saddest decade in creative sense - the 30s - I started feeling the inevitable peer pressure to date/mate/pop babies etc. I'm almost thinking to get this out of the way by settling with someone who's okay and leave the strong emotions for later (happier) decades.

 

So yeah, I'm screening 2 dating sites for a settling mate (and juggling few orbiting dudes that I may reconsider) even if my mind is elsewhere. That's good, no? I can even make a thread how happy I am building life with my settling mate

 

Goodness, My grandfather fell in love at the age of 72. I'm glad you're allowing yourself to experience these emotions. Just believe me when I say: they are perhaps rare, but they aren't as rare as you seem to believe it is.

 

The only difference is that, as you get older, the chance that you meet a single guy for whom you feel this who also happens to be single will get fewer and far between. Finding someone where the feeling is mutual is, as I have said, amazing. I think that's what everyone here wishes for you. It would be great if you could acknowledge that.

 

You said on your other thread that you remain open to dating others. Great. So how much of your headspace is your platonic friend taking? How often do you think about him? Does that leave room for others?

[Kamille]

Yeah I think it is not aging in a sense I've passed the upper treshold (as you said there is no upper one) but aging in a sense that I entered the saddest decade in creative sense - the 30s - I started feeling the inevitable peer pressure to date/mate/pop babies etc. I'm almost thinking to get this out of the way by settling with someone who's okay and leave the strong emotions for later (happier) decades.

 

So yeah, I'm screening 2 dating sites for a settling mate (and juggling few orbiting dudes that I may reconsider) even if my mind is elsewhere. That's good, no? I can even make a thread how happy I am building life with my settling mate

 

 

Admit it. You're being purposefully obtuse.

 

Why is it easier for you to turn caring advice into a joke? What's so scary about hearing us out that you find ways and strategies to dismiss it?

 

Do you think of yourself as so outside the norm that no one here can possibly offer advice that could help you in achieving your own stated goals?

Edited October 25, 2017 by Kamille

[No_Go]

 

Admit it. You're being purposefully obtuse.

 

Why is it easier for you to turn caring advice into a joke? What's scary about hearing us out?

 

Admitted

 

It is only scary because I’m afraid to get into the 2 year comatose relationship that I had with my ex (which I did because of social acceptance - hey, I was 30 already). The thing is I don’t really want to go on dates (ie I’ll go on a date if and only if I’m convinced I see potential in the guy) so I should find a way to preselect a man that inspires me in some other way...

[Kamille]

Admitted

 

It is only scary because I’m afraid to get into the 2 year comatose relationship that I had with my ex (which I did because of social acceptance - hey, I was 30 already).

 

That's fair. So you're afraid that if you follow the advice, we will encourage you to settle for someone? I feel like I'm speaking for many here when I say that's really not our intention.

 

In a world where more adults than ever before are single, it's easy to ignore social acceptance. It's sad that you put that pressure on yourself in the past. At the same time you tried it and now have a better idea of what you want. And you now know you don't have to put that pressure on yourself.

 

Like I and others have said in your other thread, there is a third option that isn't unrequited love and that isn't settling for someone. That third option: meeting a guy for whom you feel excited who also feels it for you. Do you believe that's possible for you?

Edited October 25, 2017 by Kamille

[No_Go]

Yeah... sort of that’s the fear. Plus the fear of going on many dates (it’s not a fear of doing it, more so a repulsion from the idea... I find meeting multiple men gross quite frankly ... even if it is just to drink a cup of coffee together)

 

I’m not so sure I’ll be able to get into the third option you described because to some extent my attraction depends on the man’s unavailability... That’s sad to some extent because I met good guys over the years but the puppy adoration I’ve sensed in them for me killed it faster than anything. My ideal man will refrain from ILYs , gifts, soppy stuff, lovey-dovey expressions, pet names etc. And will be thoughtful and kind in the same time (equally to me and any of his enemies). That’s a very rare mindset to find.

 

That's fair. So you're afraid that if you follow the advice, we will encourage you to settle for someone? I feel like I'm speaking for many here when I say that's really not our intention.

 

In a world where more adults than ever before are single, it's easy to ignore social acceptance. It's sad that you put that pressure on yourself in the past. At the same time you tried it and now have a better idea of what you want. And you now know you don't have to put that pressure on yourself.

 

Like I and others have said in your other thread, there is a third option that isn't unrequited love and that isn't settling for someone. That third option: meeting a guy for whom you feel excited who also feels it for you. Do you believe that's possible for you?

[Gaeta]

Yeah... sort of that’s the fear. Plus the fear of going on many dates (it’s not a fear of doing it, more so a repulsion from the idea... I find meeting multiple men gross quite frankly ... even if it is just to drink a cup of coffee together)

Many things in life are gross but we still need to do it to obtain the wanted result. It's a matter of motivation. I didn't want to go on 200 dates but I was highly motivated to obtain that special man for that special relationship.

 

That’s sad to some extent because I met good guys over the years but the puppy adoration I’ve sensed in them for me killed it faster than anything. My ideal man will refrain from ILYs , gifts, soppy stuff, lovey-dovey expressions, pet names etc. And will be thoughtful and kind in the same time (equally to me and any of his enemies). That’s a very rare mindset to find.

 

Oh dear! You've just described my ex-husband, no worries those kinds of men are all over!

[No_Go]

Many things in life are gross but we still need to do it to obtain the wanted result. It's a matter of motivation. I didn't want to go on 200 dates but I was highly motivated to obtain that special man for that special relationship.

 

 

 

Oh dear! You've just described my ex-husband, no worries those kinds of men are all over!

 

At least for me the cost outmeasures the benefit... But I’m getting better in prescreening, so there are ways.

 

Nah, your ex-husband was lacking on the kind & thoughtful part big time as the men that are all around. The men that are good AND not mushy whatsoever are hard to find... Only someone very aware with his inner self and remote from societal expectations fits this bill.

[NuevoYorko]

The following statement that I made provoked the rage:

 

No, that is bs. First, what's going on in the head of an Internet stranger is not likely to provoke rage in anyone.

 

I don't see your situation as a non traditional relationship. I see it as typical infatuation. There really is not a "social stigma" associated with a big crush, no matter how much you would like to think there is. Most of us have experienced it. Plenty of people have gone ahead and desperately pursued it just like you are and shared their experiences on your thread.

 

What is mildly annoying is your determination to spin the experiences and opinions of everyone who challenges you into something that elevates your situation, and dismisses all of ours.

 

I am getting from you the sense of a young person who has been mired in social conventions up until now and suddenly realizes that there are other choices. It's an exciting awakening.

 

What you don't seem to get (or don't want to) is that many of us here have already been through that awakening, maybe even raised outside of social norms. Speaking for myself, I have lived a "counter cultural" life to quite an extreme, for decades. Others have made a CONSCIOUS choice to commit to a traditional relationship and are not doing so because, as you seem to think, they are unable to see outside of society's bounds.

 

You clearly are not interested in any of this, but you are getting it because - you posted on an advice board. Specifically, you posted for advice on a budding romantic relationship.

 

On THIS thread - if you are actually interested in exploring "non traditional relationships," why not step back from your preconceived ideas and hear about the experiences of others. You may even hear from some people who have actually had to endure negative social stigma around their non traditional relationship. You'll never know unless you start listening.

[lana-banana]

What is the point of having a partner if they essentially treat you like just a friend? Your comment about how you wanted someone who treated his enemies as kindly as you seems to suggest you want someone who won't prioritize you in any way. No wonder your last boyfriends were such jerks; it sounds like you don't want anyone who will value you.

[No_Go]

You’d think it will not but people get butt hurt if it touches something related to their lives. It is quite hilarious indeed.

 

I’ve shared I’m middle aged and have travelled around and round so it is weird to me what I’ve shared to be perceived as ‘young person’s awakening’. I’ve also shared I stayed in my comatose relationship for so long... by conscious choice.

 

***

Ok - let’s hear your experiences! I’m very curious to learn about any nonlinear experience of an user here or elsewhere. There is a reason (breaking their safe bubble image) that people have that stops them from sharing but if you dare - I’ll be VERY curious to read about it.

 

No, that is bs. First, what's going on in the head of an Internet stranger is not likely to provoke rage in anyone.

 

I don't see your situation as a non traditional relationship. I see it as typical infatuation. There really is not a "social stigma" associated with a big crush, no matter how much you would like to think there is. Most of us have experienced it. Plenty of people have gone ahead and desperately pursued it just like you are and shared their experiences on your thread.

 

What is mildly annoying is your determination to spin the experiences and opinions of everyone who challenges you into something that elevates your situation, and dismisses all of ours.

 

I am getting from you the sense of a young person who has been mired in social conventions up until now and suddenly realizes that there are other choices. It's an exciting awakening.

 

What you don't seem to get (or don't want to) is that many of us here have already been through that awakening, maybe even raised outside of social norms. Speaking for myself, I have lived a "counter cultural" life to quite an extreme, for decades. Others have made a CONSCIOUS choice to commit to a traditional relationship and are not doing so because, as you seem to think, they are unable to see outside of society's bounds.

 

You clearly are not interested in any of this, but you are getting it because - you posted on an advice board. Specifically, you posted for advice on a budding romantic relationship.

 

On THIS thread - if you are actually interested in exploring "non traditional relationships," why not step back from your preconceived ideas and hear about the experiences of others. You may even hear from some people who have actually had to endure negative social stigma around their non traditional relationship. You'll never know unless you start listening.

[Els]

I’m not so sure I’ll be able to get into the third option you described because to some extent my attraction depends on the man’s unavailability... That’s sad to some extent because I met good guys over the years but the puppy adoration I’ve sensed in them for me killed it faster than anything. My ideal man will refrain from ILYs , gifts, soppy stuff, lovey-dovey expressions, pet names etc. And will be thoughtful and kind in the same time (equally to me and any of his enemies). That’s a very rare mindset to find.

 

I don't personally understand the aversion to romance, but that's your prerogative.

 

The thing though, is that even an aversion to romance doesn't fully explain the bolded. Lots of traditional couples (usually older couples) where I grew up don't do ILYs, pet names, etc. Heck the SO and I don't even do pet names (though we do the other forms of romance you mentioned)! But that didn't mean that the man was unavailable. He was still available and committed to his partner, he just showed it in other ways.

 

If you can truly only be attracted to men who are unavailable (as opposed to just men who don't do pet names etc), I think you really need to reexamine that and see if there is a way you can change your attraction patterns, especially if you want a family as you say you will. Freezing your eggs can help but not forever, especially if you maintain this attraction pattern into your 40s.

[No_Go]

What is the point of having a partner if they essentially treat you like just a friend? Your comment about how you wanted someone who treated his enemies as kindly as you seems to suggest you want someone who won't prioritize you in any way. No wonder your last boyfriends were such jerks; it sounds like you don't want anyone who will value you.

 

You got it right here! I want someone who *does not prioritize me in any way*. I had endless amount of fights with my ex on this topic. I want someone who values me for me, NOT because he’s in a relationship with me. And I want someone who have strong enough principles to treat people the same way regardless of his feelings, positive or negative, towards them.

 

God, I’m just getting flashbacks about the endless arguments I had with my ex about this....

[Kamille]

How do you know when someone values you for you? Is the expectation that you'll meet someone who values everyone equally all the time? Is that how you operate?

 

I'm struggling to understand what you mean, so genuinely asking.

[No_Go]

I don't personally understand the aversion to romance, but that's your prerogative.

 

The thing though, is that even an aversion to romance doesn't fully explain the bolded. Lots of traditional couples (usually older couples) where I grew up don't do ILYs, pet names, etc. Heck the SO and I don't even do pet names (though we do the other forms of romance you mentioned)! But that didn't mean that the man was unavailable. He was still available and committed to his partner, he just showed it in other ways.

 

If you can truly only be attracted to men who are unavailable (as opposed to just men who don't do pet names etc), I think you really need to reexamine that and see if there is a way you can change your attraction patterns, especially if you want a family as you say you will. Freezing your eggs can help but not forever, especially if you maintain this attraction pattern into your 40s.

 

Yes you’re right - the two are not related.

 

Romance repulses me because it is a matter of achieving something - even if the ‘something’ is conveying the attraction or reassuring the mate. It just makes me feel dumb and dependent - to need reassurance.

 

Oh I’ll not procreate with frozen eggs in my 40s. If I reach 40 without using them - my choice will be an adoption of a child that is 2-5 years old. I do NOT think it’s fair to the child to have 40+ years of age difference with the parent, biological or adoptive.

[lana-banana]

You got it right here! I want someone who *does not prioritize me in any way*. I had endless amount of fights with my ex on this topic. I want someone who values me for me, NOT because he’s in a relationship with me. And I want someone who have strong enough principles to treat people the same way regardless of his feelings, positive or negative, towards them.

 

God, I’m just getting flashbacks about the endless arguments I had with my ex about this....

 

It's not about principles, it's about partnership. When someone is your partner you go to special lengths for them because they're your partner---you are working together to help each other out. You have common goals and shared interests. If you don't share goals and interests and work together to achieve them there is no reason to be a couple.

 

Principles have nothing to do with this. I believe in treating everyone I know with kindness and compassion, but I will still put my parents, siblings and husband first. That's what families do.

[No_Go]

How do you know when someone values you for you? Is the expectation that you'll meet someone who values everyone equally all the time? Is that how you operate?

 

I'm struggling to understand what you mean, so genuinely asking.

 

Mainly on intuitive level. And on superficial level - by showing interest in things I value.

 

Valuing everyone equally is not what I meant - I meant treating everyone equally (ie actions do not reflect preferences /value level)

[lana-banana]

Romance repulses me because it is a matter of achieving something - even if the ‘something’ is conveying the attraction or reassuring the mate. It just makes me feel dumb and dependent - to need reassurance.

 

You needed and craved that reassurance this summer; if he went more than 3-4 hours without texting, you had a meltdown and assumed he was done with you. But you didn't mind feeling dumb and dependent then?

 

(I speak as someone who once assumed a guy was ignoring me when he didn't text for a while, and I was shoveling a huge scoop of self-pity ice cream into my mouth when he called asking if I was free for dinner.)

[No_Go]

It's not about principles, it's about partnership. When someone is your partner you go to special lengths for them because they're your partner---you are working together to help each other out. You have common goals and shared interests. If you don't share goals and interests and work together to achieve them there is no reason to be a couple.

 

Principles have nothing to do with this. I believe in treating everyone I know with kindness and compassion, but I will still put my parents, siblings and husband first. That's what families do.

 

Nothing wrong with your way of thinking, my ex and his friends were on the same wavelength. So as my sister etc.

 

I just happen to have another viewpoint on that. I don’t need a partner or family to help me - heck I can help myself. I need them for inspiration and expansion of goals.

 

For help: say I need to donate my kidney to a relative, partner or stranger. Who will I choose? The one in most urgent need. That’s sort of the ideal man’s mindset that I’m looking for.

[Cookiesandough]

This thread is a little evidence that people are not very understanding of "non-traditional" relationships lol

[No_Go]

You needed and craved that reassurance this summer; if he went more than 3-4 hours without texting, you had a meltdown and assumed he was done with you. But you didn't mind feeling dumb and dependent then?

 

(I speak as someone who once assumed a guy was ignoring me when he didn't text for a while, and I was shoveling a huge scoop of self-pity ice cream into my mouth when he called asking if I was free for dinner.)

 

I’m a rant-lover Lana

[lana-banana]

"Help" is not always as literal as going to someone's physical aid. It also means being their chief source of support and inspiration, as you describe. This is why people fall passionately in love and decide to get married: they are entranced with each other and want to keep pushing each other (and themselves) to new, greater heights. Again, that is what a partnership is about.

[No_Go]

"Help" is not always as literal as going to someone's physical aid. It also means being their chief source of support and inspiration, as you describe. This is why people fall passionately in love and decide to get married: they are entranced with each other and want to keep pushing each other (and themselves) to new, greater heights. Again, that is what a partnership is about.

 

If that’s the description of help - I’m fully with you

 

Marriage/cohabitation is more for legal & reproductive needs from what I’ve discussed with people IRL, but if it goes beyond these - I’m sure it’s awesome!

[lana-banana]

Marriage solely for legal and/or reproductive needs? Now that's rigid thinking! There are very few legal benefits to marriage and not everyone wants kids, but millions of people do it anyway.

 

Kamille is right: you seem to believe you can't experience mutual, reciprocal love with anybody. Kamille is also correct that you're obviously overintellectualizing this in an attempt to rationalize your current circumstances. Just relax.