Non-traditional relationships and assoiciated stigma

[No_Go]

I loved the story. So your friendship with this woman is much more real and stable than the 'regular' pairings (how many of the marriages last 30 years, let alone just sexual relationships)

 

I'd be thrilled if such a bond can form between me and this guy. This will be possibly the best outcome.

 

 

I will share a "non traditional" relationship of mine. I have many and among my peer group this doesn't even qualify as "non traditional" - it's normal. Clearly to you it is completely out of bounds, so here you go:

 

 

To this day I have a treasured friendship with a woman that began over 30 years ago with my relentless pursuit of her and her rejection of that. We were, however, both active in a consuming and exciting art / cultural movement. That common ground is what brought and kept us together in early years. We have been through a lot of life together, traveled, been roommates in another country, made some memorable art, been there for each other in hard times. We prioritize each other. Also, when I chose to embrace our friendship I felt that it was my responsibility to function as a true friend and not as a sexual pursuer. If I had been what I understand (from this site) is known as an "orbiter," our friendship would never have developed, of this I am 100% positive and we've talked about it over the years. She would have been guarded and ultimately dumped me because she'd have been aware of my ulterior motives, or I would have become resentful of her for her constant rejection, so that was all banished forever and we became dear friends. Relationships need good common ground.

 

Ultimately I fell in love with someone, with whom I chose to form what you disparage - a "traditional relationship." She did as well. We are still friends. Our friendship and my care for her well being are a high priority for me.

 

If this type of bond is in the cards for you and this guy, I'm happy for you. It's a rare gift for most people. Things are going to have to evolve quite a bit for it to happen; he would actually have to prioritize YOU. Nurturing and maintaining any kind of relationship takes effort and desire from everyone involved.

[Cookiesandough]

Do you think if this man emailed you tmrw and said he would like to try an emotionally involved romantic rship and also when you met tried to be intimate...you would lose interest?

[No_Go]

Thanks for sharing... I'm quite equally repulsed but in my case I just used a different strategy: limiting the number of first dates. I have shared before, I've kissed exactly 4 of the guys I dated and 3 of them became long-term partners. Now - choices were terrible but that's another story

 

I'm not a prude as well... I've tried nearly everything that one could imagine with the three guys I slept with. It didn't bring us any closer emotionally though.

 

It was painful in a lot of ways. It was kinda worth it in a few ways because they were awesome people. I guess the lesson is when it is not worht the pain... move on. For me it i still worth it.

 

Okay, so I figured out after a few posts that there is a whole other story here. My answer will just be in response tio part of your OP that struck me:

 

The part about the 3rd date-sex, 20th date-mom, 100th date-ring stuff.

 

I say to you - I completely agree.

 

I'll be blunt. I grew up very conservatively Christian. But even without that, I have always been a bit of a romantic. 3rd date sex rule to me is not so much traditional as it is....well, kinda slutty. There. I said it. And it is only my TAKE. 3 dates for me is still the VERY beginning. Sure I'll kiss 'em - we can even use tongue lol. But I think back to how many DIFFERENT people I had 3 or more dates with before my first marriage....I would have already slept with 15 or so people before I was even married. And, call me a prude if you want (which will GREATLY amuse my fiance), but in my book that would have meant I was cheap. Cause gross. Sex should be a little more though provoking than ordering a pizza and checking some stupid box.

 

Okay....sorry. I feel better now

 

And who says you have to meet mom at X time? Or get a ring? I would rather my own kids date "too long" and go "too slow" and be sure than marrying the wrong person or having a bunch of gross, low-self-esteem bedpost notches.

 

Now, I gather that you have strong feelings for a man who doesn't want to be romantic in any way, and you would basically rather be friends than nothing because you feel so intensely for him.

 

BTDT sister. More than once. It was painful in a lot of ways. It was kinda worth it in a few ways because they were awesome people. Neither of them changed their mind about me, however, and I eventually met someone else who DID like me "that way."

 

Unrequited love sucks, but it also isn't logical. I'd like to think if someone had told me in genuine care to stop hurting myself, I'd have listened. I doubt I would have.

 

So I don't have any answers, but I do have empathy.

[No_Go]

Do you think if this man emailed you tmrw and said he would like to try an emotionally involved romantic rship and also when you met tried to be intimate...you would lose interest?

 

Oh, I won't. If he asks for intimacy - no problem. Emotional involvement - no problem. If he start insisting to meet my mom though - I'll run the hills and lose interest faster than it appeared

[Springsummer]

Maybe I am too insecure? no confidence? too idealistic? too used to be alone and afraid to change?

 

or the men I liked just not like me enough to try again or be patient? still some men I was attracted to seemed to want me(and strange enough, most of them had a gf at the time), but not enough to really pursuit me.

[No_Go]

Thanks for sharing Lovely story.

 

I still think MB is quite accurate in predicting compatibility -

especially the N/S... I don't think I can fall for S... I don't know.

 

Sexuality is a weird thing... I don't connect with sex. I love it but for me it is a physical activity, like I imagine masturbating while having partnered sex. I'd totally go for a relationship with asexual (who is open to alternatives), if the mind&soul align.

 

Hi there No Go

We have some stuff in common... Im a INTJ/FJ currently having a romantic friendship with a asexual man, So weird for me because normally I am completely sexually orientated, but i adore this person, enjoy his company immensely, look up to him in some ways (he is an extraordinary polymath). I am open to meeting someone else (ideally who likes sex!) But dont want to give up my 'friendship' - so just bumbling along with it, no expectations and enjoying it for what it is. I never feel the need to post or ask or seek advice or approval for any of this, because I just dont. I see it for what it is, and accept it for what it is. So if you were feeling alone in your weirdness dont, just enjoy your life and your choices. What anyone else thinks is largely irrelevant and I think you must see from other posters here, no one is angry or upset, why would they be. You asked for their perspectives and you got lots of really interesting diverse ones, which is great. Take on board what you want to from that.

FYI I didnt the 50 page thread so cant comment on the ins and outs there.

[No_Go]

Maybe I am too insecure? no confidence? too idealistic? too used to be alone and afraid to change?

 

or the men I liked just not like me enough to try again or be patient? still some men I was attracted to seemed to want me(and strange enough, most of them had a gf at the time), but not enough to really pursuit me.

 

too used to be alone Very likely. The fear of change in habits is very strong and very real. It is underestimated.

 

most of them had a gf at the time - Some people feel more confident to flirt while in a relationship (I would NEVER do this myself and find it cringeworthy but i've observed it a lot). However, it rarely goes beyond flirting because, well - the fear of change in habits.

[No_Go]

You're forgetting that those 'non traditional relationships' were traditional up until about 100 years ago. Marrying for romance is a relatively new thing for western society.

 

People married for land. They married because she wanted children and he needed someone to run his house. They married when they found someone who's status was appropriate and they got on well enough. They married because they needed another horse. And because they weren't romantic marriages, adultery was rife.

 

Read up on your history.

 

I think to some extent it is still the case. People like to say they pair up/marry for romance... But in honest conversations with friends - there is always more... Assets and kids are the most common...

[No_Go]

thanks, no_go. I think i understand. I'm sorry!

 

Why are you sorry Cookie? It is part of life...

[Cookiesandough]

well it seems sad that you don't feel you can develop a secure, healthy attachment with a man considering you do want one, but you don't believe when they say they really love you and also feel judged by your family

Edited October 25, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[No_Go]

Oh ok, got you. I have secure attachments with friends (well, according to tests) so I guess I'm not unable to do it with a man... But it will be much harder than for other people.

 

On the question about his looks: in my eyes he is (the only two things I pay attention to visually are height and eyes, on both he's hitting exactly my ideal parameters). He's kind of unconventional in his looks and style as well, which is something I like.

[Cookiesandough]

Sorry I meant romantically...because you dont believe the sincerity of their feelings

 

and yea i totally understand that

[Cookiesandough]

i think you might be infatuated with him. He is like your ideal

 

 

NO ONE can snap anyone out of those feels

[No_Go]

i think you might be infatuated with him. He is like your ideal

 

 

NO ONE can snap anyone out of those feels

 

It weirdly happen when i saw one photo of his. I NEVER, just never, get attracted to a photo but in the second I saw him - I got infatuated.

 

I guess it will disappear as quickly as it appears if it is infatuation...

[Cookiesandough]

It weirdly happen when i saw one photo of his. I NEVER, just never, get attracted to a photo but in the second I saw him - I got infatuated.

 

I guess it will disappear as quickly as it appears if it is infatuation...

 

same with me and my ex...i was super attracted when i first saw him...i knew it like *BAM* and he was only a friend then...(but i didnt know he liked me like that)

 

Infatuation isn't like limerence IMO. I think most 'love affairs start at infatuation...the 'honey moon' stage...then they develop to a more mature love but it can take years. Not to scare you lmao

[No_Go]

because you dont believe the sincerity of their feelings

- thanks - that's why I dislike romantic gestures and words - I think (in most cases) they are not sincere. Whether it's me or it's the truth - there is no way to know because who on earth would willingly confess they're not sincere in their gestures...

 

Sorry I meant romantically...because you dont believe the sincerity of their feelings

 

and yea i totally understand that

[Cookiesandough]

what do you think is the motive behind them?

 

oh and i want to clarify we werent *Friends* just ran in similar circle

[No_Go]

same with me and my ex...i was super attracted when i first saw him...i knew it like *BAM* and he was only a friend then...(but i didnt know he liked me like that)

 

Infatuation isn't like limerence IMO. I think most 'love affairs start at infatuation...the 'honey moon' stage...then they develop to a more mature love but it can take years. Not to scare you lmao

 

I'm not scared because I need the extra energy . Even if I meet someone else - they'd be happier with me if I keep the infatuation energy going. I still don't think years can happen in this day and age. I'm personally too old and cynical for that now....

[No_Go]

Social approval. Ticking a box of being a 'good guy'. Ticking a box for 'relationship timeline' (e.g. ILY by date 17 to be considered 'serious')

 

what do you think is the motive behind them?

 

oh and i want to clarify we werent *Friends* just ran in similar circle

[Cookiesandough]

No_Go, you are still a young woman! And people find love into their golden years

 

I feel sad you believe that real love is rare and most couples are just putting on this charade for social approval...You don't feel like a guy can feel as strongly for you as you feel for this man? I don't know why. You are kind, intelligent, beautiful inside and out. Sounds like you have just had the wrong partners. I respect your opinion, though.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[No_Go]

Thanks Cookie. I am not old 'old' but I've already lost my childlike innocence, which happens to all people with age in one degree on another. Which is actually a good thing: it leaves very slim chance crushes to last long unless fed by actions. So thats why I think this is very transient... it will possibly disappear soon Unless I am lucky like Nuevo and his 30-year long inspirational bond.

 

No_Go, you are still a young woman! And people find love into their golden years

 

I feel sad you believe that real love is rare and most couples are just putting on this charade for social approval...You don't feel like a guy can feel as strongly for you as you feel for this man? I don't know why. You are kind, intelligent, beautiful inside and out. Sounds like you have just had the wrong partners. I respect your opinion, though.

[EthanSPK]

I don't understand why are we still discussing about some nonexistent relationship and its associated nonexistent stigma...

 

Seriously, that's bananas.

[NuevoYorko]

I loved the story. So your friendship with this woman is much more real and stable than the 'regular' pairings (how many of the marriages last 30 years, let alone just sexual relationships)

 

Why must you negatively compare with what you call "regular pairings"? If you read the whole thing, I chose to marry. My desire to marry was not influenced by my friendship with S.

 

How many "friendships" last 30 years? Who among us have not lost touch with people who were once important to us?

 

IMO it doesn't matter how you decide to label the relationships, it's the people involved and their commitment to the relationships that define them.

 

I'd be thrilled if such a bond can form between me and this guy. This will be possibly the best outcome.

 

It is quite a gift.

[NuevoYorko]

Social approval. Ticking a box of being a 'good guy'. Ticking a box for 'relationship timeline' (e.g. ILY by date 17 to be considered 'serious')

 

I honestly think that what you really need is to expand your life experience. When I read all this hooey about the box ticking, etc. I shake my head in dismay. I'm sure it's going on but I haven't found it to be any challenge at all to live my life outside of all that. Anyone could do it, it's a simple choice.

 

What are your friendships like? I noticed that you said that your friends don't know each other. That is unusual. Have you experienced a "circle of friends" or a tight knit group connected intricately through a shared passion like art or music?

[No_Go]

Ok, agreed that calling other relationships 'regular'/'traditional' may sound condescending, I need to find a better word. I guess the best way to put it is that the quality/stability of the relationship is independent of its form - like in your case you got high quality lasting relationships with your wife and with S.

 

Why must you negatively compare with what you call "regular pairings"? If you read the whole thing, I chose to marry. My desire to marry was not influenced by my friendship with S.

 

How many "friendships" last 30 years? Who among us have not lost touch with people who were once important to us?

 

IMO it doesn't matter how you decide to label the relationships, it's the people involved and their commitment to the relationships that define them.

 

 

 

It is quite a gift.