Non-traditional relationships and assoiciated stigma

[No_Go]

What are your friendships like? I noticed that you said that your friends don't know each other. That is unusual. Have you experienced a "circle of friends" or a tight knit group connected intricately through a shared passion like art or music?

 

My friendships are pretty solid. I have few that are lasting over 20 years up to date.

 

However: I do NOT meet my friends frequently (I don't know what people consider typical, but in my case it ranges from once-twice a month to few times per year per friend) and I have never experienced friend circles (I've been in some hobby-clubs but I'd pick one or two from the group and interact with them exclusively).

 

I do not introduce them to each other because ... I don't know. I don't see how they'll fit (e.g. they are decades apart in age, very diverse in socioeconomic status, culture etc). The selfish reason: each of them feeds a different need for me and I like to keep it that way...

[JuneL]

Late to the party. I was going to make one last attempt in your original thread; unfortunately, that thread has already been closed. I saw that there are quite a few insightful comments here. I especially like Kamille's posts — she has in fact made a couple of points I had in mind. Just wanted to add a few more observations (I will be very blunt, so my apologies in advance if anyone doesn't like my comments):

 

To be honest, it's quite unconvincing when the words “not wanting to settle” and “wanting an unconventional relationship” (I’m paraphrasing) came from you, of all people. When I first read your thread on this forum ("Dating a Man-Boy"), you came across as someone extremely practical, as far as romantic relationship is concerned: it almost appeared that you were trying to fit your then-boyfriend into your rigid mode of relationship and marriage. It was not until I read more and more your other posts/threads did I start to learn that you were someone with your own dreams and passions. It still boggles my mind why you would get into a romantic relationship with someone you were not even attracted to, repeatedly. In fact, most posters have been rooting for you to develop a romantic relationship with someone you are attracted to and who is also attracted to you, and yet you are complaining that we told you to settle?! Since you mentioned that some/many of your friends settled for a marriage of benefits, perhaps you got your distorted views of a conventional romantic relationship from your peers? Ironically, it looks like you are the one who succumbs to peer pressure.

 

You constantly use your dysfunctional relationship with your most recent ex as the golden benchmark when referring to a conventional romantic relationship. I used to think that your ex was just a very religious and very socially awkward guy with minimal dating/relationship/sexual experience before you and who also had trouble managing his personal finance. I now learned that he's also some selfish and inconsiderate jerk who would push someone he claimed to love to endure her traumatic experience (namely, meeting your family) over and over. I suspect that's his way of holding you hostage or feeling superior. In any case, this relationship of yours is anything but conventional.

 

You stated that you are able to date guys and get into serious relationships while maintaining your obsessive crush. So your idea of a non-traditional relationship is to get into a relationship leading to marriage with some guy you are not attracted to while maintaining an emotional affair (albeit one-sided) with this obsessive crush? Is it fair to your partner, and are you sure he would be okay with that?

 

All in all, you lack the confidence to believe that you have so much to offer and you will meet someone with mutual attraction, and you are afraid of doing the hard work to achieve that, and that’s why I commented on your self-esteem in the other thread. In fact, one can be very confident in certain areas yet have very low self-esteem deep down.

 

Finally, you wanted posters to dissect everything about your obsessive crush. I hate to break this to you, but many of us who genuinely care about you couldn’t care less about him.

[No_Go]

JuneL it is not blunt - I can see why things do not make sense for you. I'll explain:

 

it's quite unconvincing when the words “not wanting to settle” and “wanting an unconventional relationship” (I’m paraphrasing) came from you, of all people... you came across as someone extremely practical

I'll be very honest here: the reason I'd come up as extremely practical, is that I was trying to justify my decision to be in this relationship, and because it was NOT meeting my emotional needs - I thought it can at least meet something else - like fit it in my life plans. That's why the whole house talk etc, which I've wanted to do myself, misled myself that I'm ok including my ex, had a turmoil in my brain that he's not responsible enough, and in the end - thank god, did myself (after the breakup).

 

fit your then-boyfriend into your rigid mode of relationship and marriage I entered the relationship with him right at the time I turned 30, this was on my mind (time to settle!), and he was practically fit only for a role like this in my mind (i.e. we didn't have other stuff in common: completely opposite hobbies, aspirations etc).

 

why you would get into a romantic relationship with someone you were not even attracted

There was sexual chemistry (although frankly, he wasn't my physical type at all, but chemistry was somehow there), and he was safe bet - i.e. educated, well spoken etc. Also intriguing enough with his quirkiness. I though that's sufficient.

 

many of your friends settled for a marriage of benefits - they married to have kids in most cases, which is the sad reality behind the scenes for most women past the 30-year treshold. I know, I knwo - most won't admit it openly.

 

he's also some selfish and inconsiderate jerk who would push someone he claimed to love to endure her traumatic experience I think you're villainizing him here... The naked truth is that he was, most likely, on the autistic spectrum. He never told me exact details but I knew he had to go through 10 years of therapy to be able to interact let alone date. I don't even think he realized he's traumatizing me: he was acting on his script because, well, that's all his mind allowed him to do. In the hindsight, when I noticed the signs of mental disorder I should have run, BUT he's also very intelligent person so I thought he's fully functioning.

 

So your idea of a non-traditional relationship is to get into a relationship leading to marriage with some guy you are not attracted to while maintaining an emotional affair If I enter arrangement (marriage or otherwise) to have kids, it will be extremely obvious to the person I'll do this with. He'll know it. If my 'obsession' with this guy continues as something one sided - he'll transition from a friend to a muse. The latter is VERY different than someone you have emotional affair with.

 

and you are afraid of doing the hard work to achieve that I'm not afraid - just not motivated to do it, at that point of time (this may change).

 

In fact, one can be very confident in certain areas yet have very low self-esteem deep down. It's possible, I don't know how to measure that. Any ideas?

 

many of us who genuinely care about you couldn’t care less about him. Thank you, but I really wish I can understand him better It is one of a kind human being, isn't he?

 

Ok, I hope I'm much more clear to you now. It is hard to build a picture from few fragments here and there...

 

Late to the party. I was going to make one last attempt in your original thread; unfortunately, that thread has already been closed. I saw that there are quite a few insightful comments here. I especially like Kamille's posts — she has in fact made a couple of points I had in mind. Just wanted to add a few more observations (I will be very blunt, so my apologies in advance if anyone doesn't like my comments):

 

To be honest, it's quite unconvincing when the words “not wanting to settle” and “wanting an unconventional relationship” (I’m paraphrasing) came from you, of all people. When I first read your thread on this forum ("Dating a Man-Boy"), you came across as someone extremely practical, as far as romantic relationship is concerned: it almost appeared that you were trying to fit your then-boyfriend into your rigid mode of relationship and marriage. It was not until I read more and more your other posts/threads did I start to learn that you were someone with your own dreams and passions. It still boggles my mind why you would get into a romantic relationship with someone you were not even attracted to, repeatedly. In fact, most posters have been rooting for you to develop a romantic relationship with someone you are attracted to and who is also attracted to you, and yet you are complaining that we told you to settle?! Since you mentioned that some/many of your friends settled for a marriage of benefits, perhaps you got your distorted views of a conventional romantic relationship from your peers? Ironically, it looks like you are the one who succumbs to peer pressure.

 

You constantly use your dysfunctional relationship with your most recent ex as the golden benchmark when referring to a conventional romantic relationship. I used to think that your ex was just a very religious and very socially awkward guy with minimal dating/relationship/sexual experience before you and who also had trouble managing his personal finance. I now learned that he's also some selfish and inconsiderate jerk who would push someone he claimed to love to endure her traumatic experience (namely, meeting your family) over and over. I suspect that's his way of holding you hostage or feeling superior. In any case, this relationship of yours is anything but conventional.

 

You stated that you are able to date guys and get into serious relationships while maintaining your obsessive crush. So your idea of a non-traditional relationship is to get into a relationship leading to marriage with some guy you are not attracted to while maintaining an emotional affair (albeit one-sided) with this obsessive crush? Is it fair to your partner, and are you sure he would be okay with that?

 

All in all, you lack the confidence to believe that you have so much to offer and you will meet someone with mutual attraction, and you are afraid of doing the hard work to achieve that, and that’s why I commented on your self-esteem in the other thread. In fact, one can be very confident in certain areas yet have very low self-esteem deep down.

 

Finally, you wanted posters to dissect everything about your obsessive crush. I hate to break this to you, but many of us who genuinely care about you couldn’t care less about him.

[Gaeta]

I'll be very honest here: the reason I'd come up as extremely practical, is that I was trying to justify my decision to be in this relationship, and because it was NOT meeting my emotional needs - I thought it can at least meet something else - like fit it in my life plans.

Aren't you doing it again with this current guy?

 

If my 'obsession' with this guy continues as something one sided - he'll transition from a friend to a muse.

Really, you are idealizing this man and comparing him to a Greek mythology personage?

 

 

Thank you, but I really wish I can understand him better It is one of a kind human being, isn't he?

uuhh! No, I don't see it. I really don't see what is so special about this man. To me he comes across as some one dimensional boring scientist who's getting most of his erections from hearing his own voice.

 

Let me remind you: He's still a stranger. You do not know this man. He does not deserve the pedestal you've put him on. For all you know he could have done some pretty heartless and questionable things in his life.

[WaitingForBardot]

/...snip/ To me he comes across as some one dimensional boring scientist who's getting most of his erections from hearing his own voice. /snip.../

..LOL..

 

Now that's some sigworthy stuff! Known a few like this myself...

[Kamille]

I'll confess part of my interest is this thread is that No Go's feelings for this guy remind me of the feelings I had for the last guy I dated. It was the first time I felt like that for a man in years and I was excited.

 

Like her, I idealized our connection and who he was. I thought the world of him and the kind considerate multilayered smart person I thought he was. Thing is, I also later found out he was struggling severely with anxiety - and that what I was reading as depth was more likely anxious strategies to avoid human intimacy. Also, on his spare time, this guy stayed home playing video games and eating burritos. Basically, he was just a regular guy and yet I had projected all these qualities onto him that made it impossible for him to be himself, a real human being, in this relationship.

 

So I wonder No Go. Your new friend... Does he want to be a muse or an object of admiration? Wouldn't he rather just be himself? Why are you instrumentalizing him this way?

[Cookiesandough]

I'll confess part of my interest is this thread is that No Go's feelings for this guy remind me of the feelings I had for the last guy I dated. It was the first time I felt like that for a man in years and I was excited.

 

Like her, I idealized our connection and who he was. I thought the world of him and the kind considerate multilayered smart person I thought he was. Thing is, I also later found out he was struggling severely with anxiety - and that what I was reading as depth was more likely anxious strategies to avoid human intimacy. Also, on his spare time, this guy stayed home playing video games and eating burritos. Basically, he was just a regular guy and yet I had projected all these qualities onto him that made it impossible for him to be himself, a real human being, in this relationship.

 

So I wonder No Go. Your new friend... Does he want to be a muse or an object of admiration? Wouldn't he rather just be himself? Why are you instrumentalizing him this way?

 

 

Reminds me of myself

 

I agree with Gaeta LOL I got the same mental image of him. He sounds very unappealing, but I guess 'love' is blind...

[BluEyeL]

I'm sorry but I really don't think you know for sure that your friends settled to have kids, you just like to think that because it makes you feel better about being single or not having that connection you fantasize about. It really is better to think that everyone else settled instead of admitting that you are the one settling for a guy who isn't into you. The worst form of settling. It's just lacking self respect.

 

I've heard this exact bs from other perpetually single women, including here on this forum. It's not that they have an issue. It's that everyone else settled. Get out of denial and start working on your issues. Leave other people's imagined issues alone it's not your business and it only keeps you miserable.

 

It's really simple. This guy isnt into you and if you choose to be hung up on him and twist this into a non traditional relationship not accepted by society when in fact it's a fantasy relationship the society doesn't give a cxap about one way or the other, it's your prerogative. People here care about you and the sxupid things you do to yourself . But the society? Nope.

[Cookiesandough]

I'm sorry but I really don't think you know for sure that your friends settled to have kids, you just like to think that because it makes you feel better about being single or not having that connection you fantasize about. It really is better to think that everyone else settled instead of admitting that you are the one settling for a guy who isn't into you. The worst form of settling. It's just lacking self respect.

 

I've heard this exact bs from other perpetually single women, including here on this forum. It's not that they have an issue. It's that everyone else settled. Get out of denial and start working on your issues. Leave other people's imagined issues alone it's not your business and it only keeps you miserable.

 

It's really simple. This guy isnt into you and if you choose to be hung up on him and twist this into a non traditional relationship not accepted by society when in fact it's a fantasy relationship the society doesn't give a cxap about one way or the other, it's your prerogative. People here care about you and the sxupid things you do to yourself . But the society? Nope.

I agree this is what is happening.

 

There are several proposed theories of powerful psychological mechanisms that humans employ to delude our estimation of how positive our life really is. One mechanism is called adjustment. Though we may have an ideal for what we would like to happen, we often have to readjust those ideas through mental gymnastics to lesser versions to make due with the situation as it turned out in real life. This often happens on an almost unconscious level.

 

So, ideally you may want X to happen, but circumstances don't allow your ideal X to happen, and therefore you must adjust your expectations and goals to the actual lesser situation.

 

Another mechanism is comparison. If something in your life is not going right, or is not positive, you compare your situation with people in worse situations. This can be real or contrived. This does not negate your own negative situation, it just means that in general, if you believe that other humans have it worse off another you can better justify your negative situation with people who have it worse.

[No_Go]

comparing him to a Greek mythology personage - G, I nearly peed myself :lmao:

 

I can't count him as a stranger after so many hours of face time, exchanges and research... I really do believe he's unique in his abilities to be in touch with himself be pure in his ambitions ... he is NOT driven by power, sex, money, social approval, religion... He lives a life of reflection...

 

I admit if I haven't got old, tired and uninspired in the past few years, I would have been more like him... Now - I'm just too boring and as June said - pragmatic.

 

one dimensional boring scientist who's getting most of his erections from hearing his own voice - this person is an artist and a scientist in the same body, far from boring.... Selfish - yes, I can see that to some extent. But that can be a shield that he uses to hide his anxiety. I've seen him near crying in the few times we've been together - how many people have that range of emotion triggered just by distant memories? So I don't think he's a selfish person in heart, just anxious and turned inwards.

 

Aren't you doing it again with this current guy?

 

Really, you are idealizing this man and comparing him to a Greek mythology personage?

 

 

uuhh! No, I don't see it. I really don't see what is so special about this man. To me he comes across as some one dimensional boring scientist who's getting most of his erections from hearing his own voice.

 

Let me remind you: He's still a stranger. You do not know this man. He does not deserve the pedestal you've put him on. For all you know he could have done some pretty heartless and questionable things in his life.

[elaine567]

Do not forget the pity play is one of the most reliable signs of a sociopath...

[No_Go]

I'll confess part of my interest is this thread is that No Go's feelings for this guy remind me of the feelings I had for the last guy I dated. It was the first time I felt like that for a man in years and I was excited.

 

Like her, I idealized our connection and who he was. I thought the world of him and the kind considerate multilayered smart person I thought he was. Thing is, I also later found out he was struggling severely with anxiety - and that what I was reading as depth was more likely anxious strategies to avoid human intimacy. Also, on his spare time, this guy stayed home playing video games and eating burritos. Basically, he was just a regular guy and yet I had projected all these qualities onto him that made it impossible for him to be himself, a real human being, in this relationship.

 

So I wonder No Go. Your new friend... Does he want to be a muse or an object of admiration? Wouldn't he rather just be himself? Why are you instrumentalizing him this way?

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

In my case I have no doubts that he’s also a ‘normal’ guy in terms of his daily routine. It makes me even more fascinated... In terms of how the life routine hasn’t bruised him like it did myself...

 

I don’t think I’m instrumentalizing him in any way: I’d never share something in that line with him, it is purely for my own self-reflection. Beyond any friendship and attraction that exists, what fascinated me is I’m seeing my past in him (and he’s a person with vastly different life journey from mine so the resemblance is not driven by the experiences we have had).

[No_Go]

Do not forget the pity play is one of the most reliable signs of a sociopath...

 

But there is no pity play here!

 

I’ve had a ‘traditional’ (sexual, live-in) relationship with a sociopath and got very burned so I know the signs...

[No_Go]

Reminds me of myself

 

I agree with Gaeta LOL I got the same mental image of him. He sounds very unappealing, but I guess 'love' is blind...

 

What’s unappealing in eating burritos at home ?

[elaine567]

But there is no pity play here!

 

But you just said.

I've seen him near crying in the few times we've been together

[No_Go]

Blue, I CHOSE to be single in the prime years (20-27) where most people are horny to no end, screwing anything moving, and the young girls are already on a hunt to snatch a dude

 

Otherwise when I was NOT single, my roommate back then (mid40s perms-single albeit quite attractive lady) nonstop harped on me how terrible I am for settling etc, so I know what you mean. She’d throw a tantrum every night I’d stay in my then-bfs place

 

For kids & friends - it is true because my friends did volunteer the information AND asked for advise do I think it’s ok. And I’ve encouraged most of them to go for it, because in contrast to what some users think I’m well aware that 30s are NOT the new 20s, fertility steadily declines so as the available single men.

 

This interaction whatever it is brings me so much joy, happiness and inspiration that I should be an idiot to stop it regardless of what it is. That doesn’t happen many times in life... which is sad.

 

 

I'm sorry but I really don't think you know for sure that your friends settled to have kids, you just like to think that because it makes you feel better about being single or not having that connection you fantasize about. It really is better to think that everyone else settled instead of admitting that you are the one settling for a guy who isn't into you. The worst form of settling. It's just lacking self respect.

 

I've heard this exact bs from other perpetually single women, including here on this forum. It's not that they have an issue. It's that everyone else settled. Get out of denial and start working on your issues. Leave other people's imagined issues alone it's not your business and it only keeps you miserable.

 

It's really simple. This guy isnt into you and if you choose to be hung up on him and twist this into a non traditional relationship not accepted by society when in fact it's a fantasy relationship the society doesn't give a cxap about one way or the other, it's your prerogative. People here care about you and the sxupid things you do to yourself . But the society? Nope.

[Cookiesandough]

But you just said.

 

This keeps getting worse xD

[No_Go]

But you just said.

 

In context of talking about dead relatives. Ie not something anyone could help (sociopaths cry for ‘help’ or anything that they’ll get advantage of, this person is on the extreme other end of the spectrum..)

[No_Go]

Absolutely - see my response to Blue.

 

I’m sure I do it to some extent and so as the posters justifying their own decisions.

 

That’s why when reading opinions is helpful to superimpose the advise to the current living situation of the person giving the advise. And that’s why I never take offense in what’s thrown as an opinion here or elsewhere.

 

I agree this is what is happening.

 

There are several proposed theories of powerful psychological mechanisms that humans employ to delude our estimation of how positive our life really is. One mechanism is called adjustment. Though we may have an ideal for what we would like to happen, we often have to readjust those ideas through mental gymnastics to lesser versions to make due with the situation as it turned out in real life. This often happens on an almost unconscious level.

 

So, ideally you may want X to happen, but circumstances don't allow your ideal X to happen, and therefore you must adjust your expectations and goals to the actual lesser situation.

 

Another mechanism is comparison. If something in your life is not going right, or is not positive, you compare your situation with people in worse situations. This can be real or contrived. This does not negate your own negative situation, it just means that in general, if you believe that other humans have it worse off another you can better justify your negative situation with people who have it worse.

[Els]

Blue, I CHOSE to be single in the prime years (20-27) where most people are horny to no end, screwing anything moving, and the young girls are already on a hunt to snatch a dude

 

Otherwise when I was NOT single, my roommate back then (mid40s perms-single albeit quite attractive lady) nonstop harped on me how terrible I am for settling etc, so I know what you mean. She’d throw a tantrum every night I’d stay in my then-bfs place

 

For kids & friends - it is true because my friends did volunteer the information AND asked for advise do I think it’s ok. And I’ve encouraged most of them to go for it, because in contrast to what some users think I’m well aware that 30s are NOT the new 20s, fertility steadily declines so as the available single men.

 

This interaction whatever it is brings me so much joy, happiness and inspiration that I should be an idiot to stop it regardless of what it is. That doesn’t happen many times in life... which is sad.

 

Do some people settle for "traditional" Rs? Sure. I've seen a few of those, too. But... here's the key thing... it's equally possible to settle for a "non-traditional" R too, the way you appear to be doing. I don't think an R being "traditional" or "non-traditional" affects the likelihood that the person involved is settling for less than what they would have otherwise wanted.

 

If you had TRULY wanted to be platonic friends with him and TRULY didn't want a family, I'd say feel free to carry on with this guy. But you don't really, not on either count. That's what makes this situation "settling", regardless of traditionality.

[No_Go]

This keeps getting worse xD

 

Nah, see my response to Elaine.

 

It is just not easy to describe someone so complex...

[lana-banana]

Lord help me, I can't quit this thread. I really tried.

 

Blue, I CHOSE to be single in the prime years (20-27) where most people are horny to no end, screwing anything moving, and the young girls are already on a hunt to snatch a dude

 

Again with the condescension. You can't just own your choices, you have to denigrate everyone else's too. And it doesn't even make sense. If you knew you really wanted a child as much as you do, why were you staying single?

 

I’ve had a ‘traditional’ (sexual, live-in) relationship with a sociopath and got very burned so I know the signs...

 

Living and having sex with someone does not make it "traditional", it makes it "real", unless your partner is asexual. I am getting weirded out by how you describe your current relationship as "non-traditional" when it's literally just an obsessive crush.

 

Secondly, you were totally blindsided by both of your breakups. These were men you knew well and lived with, and they still utterly shocked you when they dumped you. It turned out they had a lot of awful traits they kept hidden, many of which you didn't know about for years. This is why Gaeta and others are reminding you this guy is a stranger---you truly don't know him at all!

 

For kids & friends - it is true because my friends did volunteer the information AND asked for advise do I think it’s ok. And I’ve encouraged most of them to go for it, because in contrast to what some users think I’m well aware that 30s are NOT the new 20s, fertility steadily declines so as the available single men

 

So you were the one encouraging nyour friends to settle? And you couldn't even finish a paragraph without a slam on what "some users think"?

 

No_Go, less than a year ago you were happily talking about introducing your boyfriend to family and sharing your excitement over his discussing engagement rings. You didn't find it gross or soppy, you were so amped for the prospect that you said you'd be too overcome to really care about how the ring looked or anything like that. But now you're too cool for everyone and everything, and everyone who's married is settling? Forgive me if all this stuff about your need for non-traditional "relationships" rings hollow.

[No_Go]

Do some people settle for "traditional" Rs? Sure. I've seen a few of those, too. But... here's the key thing... it's equally possible to settle for a "non-traditional" R too, the way you appear to be doing. I don't think an R being "traditional" or "non-traditional" affects the likelihood that the person involved is settling for less than what they would have otherwise wanted.

 

If you had TRULY wanted to be platonic friends with him and TRULY didn't want a family, I'd say feel free to carry on with this guy. But you don't really, not on either count. That's what makes this situation "settling", regardless of traditionality.

 

Yeah, just no one calles out the regular arrangements (well some do but it’s less frequent). I see your point though.

 

I guess I’m evolving by the day since I met him 3 (!!) months ago ... Otherwise I swear I would have already ‘settled’ with some person providing me with sex, daily presence and swinging puppy tail expressing his undying love.

 

Now at least I ‘settled’ for something that brought out the best in me, and literally wiped out the comatose form of existence I was falling into in the past years...

[Els]

Yeah, just no one calles out the regular arrangements (well some do but it’s less frequent). I see your point though.

 

I guess I’m evolving by the day since I met him 3 (!!) months ago ... Otherwise I swear I would have already ‘settled’ with some person providing me with sex, daily presence and swinging puppy tail expressing his undying love.

 

Now at least I ‘settled’ for something that brought out the best in me, and literally wiped out the comatose form of existence I was falling into in the past years...

 

There are many different forms of settling, though... I mean, what you said sounds an awful lot to me like "Yeah, I didn't settle for a house that was full of termites and had a leaking roof... at least I settled for a house that was termite-proof and dry, even if it's in a terrible neighbourhood and cost three times my budget!"

 

I understand how it's like to only encounter very few men whom you're attracted to. But the solution to that isn't spending all this time and headspace on a man whom you're attracted to but who isn't attracted to YOU.

[lana-banana]

Now at least I ‘settled’ for something that brought out the best in me, and literally wiped out the comatose form of existence I was falling into in the past years...

 

This interaction whatever it is brings me so much joy, happiness and inspiration that I should be an idiot to stop it regardless of what it is.

 

Imagine hearing someone say this about you after you told them you just wanted to be friends...

 

Nobody healthy wants to date someone who is in a comatose state of existence. Believe me, I know how much better and brighter and more amazing the whole world seems when you fall in love. But what you are describing sounds like you need this guy to make your life happy and exciting. An independent, confident woman doesn't need a man to serve as her muse.