Non-traditional relationships and assoiciated stigma

[No_Go]

Welcome back

 

I didn’t know I’d want kids back then. I would actually proclaim to anyone I do NOT want kids. I guess the first time I changed my opinion was at 29 or so.

 

Otherwise you’re right I need to be more tolerant to alternative life choices. I was mainly just sarcastic... but yeah, I have this trouble sometimes.

 

For the break ups: yes. The reason is the two that you describe they did NOT want to let me go because it was too convenient for them , so they used manipulation to keep me in... yes, that brought up the worst of them.

 

... It could be the case that this person has a ‘hidden’ dark side, true, just so far - nothing suggests so.

 

I was encouraging my friends because considering what their needs were, the choices were not wrong. I’d never encourage them into something I think will harm them. Just the benefit was higher than the cost.

 

For my ex: I was caught at the time, certainly, but if you look at my threads (I have 2 about how terrified I am to bring him to my family), you’d see it was far from blissful anticipation of the engagement which I thank all the gods never happened (because I’d have spent my life with the wrong man....). You know, just a thought but I may find romance soppy at least partially because of this fake experience with him (browsing dating websites while discussing engagement rings with me :lmao:?)

 

 

Lord help me, I can't quit this thread. I really tried.

 

 

 

Again with the condescension. You can't just own your choices, you have to denigrate everyone else's too. And it doesn't even make sense. If you knew you really wanted a child as much as you do, why were you staying single?

 

 

 

Living and having sex with someone does not make it "traditional", it makes it "real", unless your partner is asexual. I am getting weirded out by how you describe your current relationship as "non-traditional" when it's literally just an obsessive crush.

 

Secondly, you were totally blindsided by both of your breakups. These were men you knew well and lived with, and they still utterly shocked you when they dumped you. It turned out they had a lot of awful traits they kept hidden, many of which you didn't know about for years. This is why Gaeta and others are reminding you this guy is a stranger---you truly don't know him at all!

 

 

 

So you were the one encouraging nyour friends to settle? And you couldn't even finish a paragraph without a slam on what "some users think"?

 

No_Go, less than a year ago you were happily talking about introducing your boyfriend to family and sharing your excitement over his discussing engagement rings. You didn't find it gross or soppy, you were so amped for the prospect that you said you'd be too overcome to really care about how the ring looked or anything like that. But now you're too cool for everyone and everything, and everyone who's married is settling? Forgive me if all this stuff about your need for non-traditional "relationships" rings hollow.

[Gaeta]

Now at least I ‘settled’ for something that brought out the best in me, and literally wiped out the comatose form of existence I was falling into in the past years...

 

**Speechless** and that rarely happens to me to be speechless!

 

You are settling for what exactly? If you didn't contact him he'd have to be reminded of your existence. How long was he gone and not a peep out of him? 1 month?

[No_Go]

Hey I tend to hyperbolize

 

How long was he gone and not a peep out of him? - a little over 2 weeks but he was abroad for an entire month.

 

**Speechless** and that rarely happens to me to be speechless!

 

You are settling for what exactly? If you didn't contact him he'd have to be reminded of your existence. How long was he gone and not a peep out of him? 1 month?

[No_Go]

An independent, confident woman doesn't need a man to serve as her muse.

 

Ah, it is not a need, just a want . BTW in my eyes the muse status is NOT given to romantic partners or interests, or even friends. Half of my muses are women and I'm heterosexual, which is proving it.

[Cookiesandough]

What’s unappealing in eating burritos at home ?

 

Nothing, nothing at all. video games and burritos are where it's at you said that you don't multi date, no/go. You said mainly because you feel guilty, but I suggested you get a little 'tunnel vision' when it comes to your crushes (I think I underestimated this at the time). So, do you think you will feel guilty to this guy if you multi-date? Or at least the guy who actually wants to be with you sexually/romantically?

 

You said this in the context ual thread :

 

So at the very moment I want 'companion, lover' from your list. Maybe I'm 6 months or an year it will be 'life partner, husband' but right now is not. But it is still a need to get a mate.

 

Now that this man has told you that he does not want to be a mate, lovers, or life partner/husband, should you not be on the lookout/dating for someone who fits the goals you had before you became enamored with this guy??

Edited October 26, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[Kamille]

If I may. I'm in academia. I think you're misrepresenting it if you think choosing a career in academia is somehow something to be admired. We might not make as much as people in industry, but professors are far from being poor. Plus, we get to research whatever we want and publish what we want as long as it is scientifically sound. Also, we have job security. I'm not sure exactly what's so admirable about any of that.

 

 

 

And if he's the one presenting it as a sacrifice, beware of him.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Kamille

[Eternal Sunshine]

I'm sorry but I really don't think you know for sure that your friends settled to have kids, you just like to think that because it makes you feel better about being single or not having that connection you fantasize about. It really is better to think that everyone else settled instead of admitting that you are the one settling for a guy who isn't into you. The worst form of settling. It's just lacking self respect.

 

I've heard this exact bs from other perpetually single women, including here on this forum. It's not that they have an issue. It's that everyone else settled. Get out of denial and start working on your issues. Leave other people's imagined issues alone it's not your business and it only keeps you miserable.

 

It's really simple. This guy isnt into you and if you choose to be hung up on him and twist this into a non traditional relationship not accepted by society when in fact it's a fantasy relationship the society doesn't give a cxap about one way or the other, it's your prerogative. People here care about you and the sxupid things you do to yourself . But the society? Nope.

 

Since this post in particular is addressed to people like me, I have to respond. I can turn all your arguments back to yourself. People that have "settled" are happier in deluding themselves into thinking that what they have is "true luv" and that all single people are miserable, have major issues and are secretly jealous of them. They couldn't possible want more out of life than a warm body that they vaguely like and in time grow attached to? In fact, I find that people that have settled are the most sensitive of all to "settling" comments. Others *know* that they haven't settled so those comments don't bother them.

 

I also have many friends that have straight up admitted to me that they have settled. Are they all lying?

 

Do you really think that women in their 30s that really want children all just meet their prince charming just before the biological clock ticks away? How can a genuine connection even grow under that pressure? Many chose the "settling" route because that's the best option out of all the bad options.

 

Maybe it's best to leave each other with our own "delusions" with how others think and live and call it a day

[No_Go]

Kamille, glad to get another fellow scientist here. I'm very aware how it is, salaries etc I left academia after my (relatively short) postdoc to fast track to better pay, he decided to stay postdoc for longer, he doesn't even want to do research but teaching. I think people read me wrong.

 

By simple lifestyle I mean renting with multiple roommates, not owning a car or buying expensive toys, eating at home, and not aspiring to change any of that. He's not falling into the trap that I did - sacrificing interests for lifestyle.

 

He's a hobby-scientist in his free time as well - he's fascinated by nature, so am I, so that's what we mostly talk about.

 

P.S. He is NOT presenting anything as a sacrifice, he loves his life.

 

If I may. I'm in academia. I think you're misrepresenting it if you think choosing a career in academia is somehow something to be admired. We might not make as much as people in industry, but professors are far from being poor. Plus, we get to research whatever we want and publish what we want as long as it is scientifically sound. Also, we have job security. I'm not sure exactly what's so admirable about any of that.

 

 

 

And if he's the one presenting it as a sacrifice, beware of him.

[No_Go]

Yeah, I'd feel guilty IF i multidate.

At now, I don't count it as more that platonic because it's not. So I have green light to date.

 

I have my OLD open and when bored answer messages, I'm just not seeing anyone worth meeting in person. Polite, thoughtful guys, sure, but guys I'm meh about.

 

 

 

Nothing, nothing at all. video games and burritos are where it's at you said that you don't multi date, no/go. You said mainly because you feel guilty, but I suggested you get a little 'tunnel vision' when it comes to your crushes (I think I underestimated this at the time). So, do you think you will feel guilty to this guy if you multi-date? Or at least the guy who actually wants to be with you sexually/romantically?

 

You said this in the context ual thread :

 

 

 

Now that this man has told you that he does not want to be a mate, lovers, or life partner/husband, should you not be on the lookout/dating for someone who fits the goals you had before you became enamored with this guy??

[No_Go]

ES - Cookies actually wrote a sound explanation why we observe this phenomenon of both single and coupled people defending their status.

 

I'm open to anything but indeed the 30s are an 'interesting' decade for women that are hoping to beat the biological clock and are still single. I've noticed once the baby craze is over after the menopause hits in the 40s/50s, women get back to more romantic/less pragmatic view of dating, and many even meet true love late in life. So I'm not losing hope, just losing hope for my 30s

 

Since this post in particular is addressed to people like me, I have to respond. I can turn all your arguments back to yourself. People that have "settled" are happier in deluding themselves into thinking that what they have is "true luv" and that all single people are miserable, have major issues and are secretly jealous of them. They couldn't possible want more out of life than a warm body that they vaguely like and in time grow attached to? In fact, I find that people that have settled are the most sensitive of all to "settling" comments. Others *know* that they haven't settled so those comments don't bother them.

 

I also have many friends that have straight up admitted to me that they have settled. Are they all lying?

 

Do you really think that women in their 30s that really want children all just meet their prince charming just before the biological clock ticks away? How can a genuine connection even grow under that pressure? Many chose the "settling" route because that's the best option out of all the bad options.

 

Maybe it's best to leave each other with our own "delusions" with how others think and live and call it a day

[Cookiesandough]

I agree with you, Sunshine, completely. What drives our desires is convoluted, to say the least. So many facets and influences. But it's been clear from at least 2 very long threads no_go had expectations of a romantic (and physical) relationship with this particular man and only decided that that's all meaningless and uneccesary when it became impossible. So it appears she's settling to be with this man. It would be like a woman who was against marriage and kids only do it to stay with man who had to have that. He's not bending. She is. When we change our desires to be with someone else under their conditions, in the long-term it's usually not as fulfilling as if we stay true to what we really want. But when you feel strongly for someone it's 'easier', I suppose, because it's hard to move on. Hence the bargaining/rationalization.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[lana-banana]

I agree with you, Sunshine, completely. What drives our desires is convoluted, to say the least. So many facets and influences. But it's been clear from at least 2 very long threads no_go had expectations of a romantic (and physical) relationship with this particular man and only decided that that's all meaningless and uneccesary when it became impossible. So it appears she's settling to be with this man. It would be like a woman who was against marriage and kids only do it to stay with man who had to have that. He's not bending. She is. When we change our desires to be with someone else under their conditions, in the long-term it's usually not as fulfilling as if we stay true to what we really want. But when you feel strongly for someone it's 'easier', I suppose, because it's hard to move on. Hence the bargaining/rationalization.

 

Most women (particularly in their early twenties) have done this. They meet their dream man and start fantasizing about wedding bells, but when he says "I'm looking for something cool and casual" they try to become bohemian, breezy Cool Girls who are too free-spirited for a serious boyfriend.

 

Know thyself and don't compromise. At some point I realized if I had to change my values to have a relationship, it wasn't a relationship worth having, because the right guy for me would never need me to change my values in the first place.

[No_Go]

Good insights.

 

The only thing I don't understand is the following statement true to what we really want. I know what it means, but do you think it is constant? Not influenced by our surroundings? Age? Changes in social status? Changes in friends circles? It goes against biology to have what we want to be constant and unaffected by the environment.

 

I agree with you, Sunshine, completely. What drives our desires is convoluted, to say the least. So many facets and influences. But it's been clear from at least 2 very long threads no_go had expectations of a romantic (and physical) relationship with this particular man and only decided that that's all meaningless and uneccesary when it became impossible. So it appears she's settling to be with this man. It would be like a woman who was against marriage and kids only do it to stay with man who had to have that. He's not bending. She is. When we change our desires to be with someone else under their conditions, in the long-term it's usually not as fulfilling as if we stay true to what we really want. But when you feel strongly for someone it's 'easier', I suppose, because it's hard to move on. Hence the bargaining/rationalization.

[No_Go]

Ok, when I read that it reminded me to something said by a relationship coach that like a lot (which for me is very rare - I trash most of the 'advice' given by proclaimed coaches).

 

So she said settling relationships resolve by themselves. i.e. we sooner than later move to better things more fit for us.

 

A woman in her early 20s may have fantasies about wedding bells (if her culture promoted that to her) but she is NOT in any shape or form ready for commitment in 99.99% of the cases. So transitioning to 'cool bohemian girl' is probably the best natural resolution anyway. It's not ONLY the unavailable guy that is leading her to change, it is the path that makes most sense.

 

I believe nobody can change us against our free will. If we do change - it is because in one extent or another, we were open to the change to happen.

 

Most women (particularly in their early twenties) have done this. They meet their dream man and start fantasizing about wedding bells, but when he says "I'm looking for something cool and casual" they try to become bohemian, breezy Cool Girls who are too free-spirited for a serious boyfriend.

 

Know thyself and don't compromise. At some point I realized if I had to change my values to have a relationship, it wasn't a relationship worth having, because the right guy for me would never need me to change my values in the first place.

[Kamille]

 

I believe nobody can change us against our free will. If we do change - it is because in one extent or another, we were open to the change to happen.

 

The question here, as I see it, is whether this is a genuine change for you, or one you are suddenly entering because you're not ready to let go of this guy.

 

Your impulse is to stay attached, so you're justifying it with intellectual reasons.

 

You're changing your identity and what you want in order to keep this man in your life.

 

Is this guy even aware that you two are in a non-traditional relationship? Otherwise, isn't it just a friendship? Why put all this hullabaloo around it?

[No_Go]

Friendship is a type of relationship.

 

By non-traditional I was referring to relationships (in a broader sense than romantic ones) that do not develop as planned but yet have very strong impact on us. Heck I had such a relationship with a family member. It doesn’t have to be romantic to count.

 

For your other point - I don’t know myself. I guess I’ll figure out with time what my own motives are - to fit in the situation, or I just flipped mindsets for good.

 

The question here, as I see it, is whether this is a genuine change for you, or one you are suddenly entering because you're not ready to let go of this guy.

 

Your impulse is to stay attached, so you're justifying it with intellectual reasons.

 

You're changing your identity and what you want in order to keep this man in your life.

 

Is this guy even aware that you two are in a non-traditional relationship? Otherwise, isn't it just a friendship? Why put all this hullabaloo around it?

[lana-banana]

Ok, when I read that it reminded me to something said by a relationship coach that like a lot (which for me is very rare - I trash most of the 'advice' given by proclaimed coaches).

 

So she said settling relationships resolve by themselves. i.e. we sooner than later move to better things more fit for us.

 

A woman in her early 20s may have fantasies about wedding bells (if her culture promoted that to her) but she is NOT in any shape or form ready for commitment in 99.99% of the cases. So transitioning to 'cool bohemian girl' is probably the best natural resolution anyway. It's not ONLY the unavailable guy that is leading her to change, it is the path that makes most sense.

 

I believe nobody can change us against our free will. If we do change - it is because in one extent or another, we were open to the change to happen.

 

The "transition" is temporary at best. It's not a life change, it's a facade.

 

It's still really hard to shake the sense that you're being deliberately obtuse. You would rather talk about free will, unique relationships, the inevitable heat death of the universe and literally anything other than the reality that you are obsessed with a guy who rejected you. The sooner you acknowledge that, the sooner you can move on.

[RecentChange]

You know.....

 

All of this is as complicated as we choose to make it.

 

I am bewildered how convoluted, complex and what lengths some go to to make relationships "happen".

 

In my personal experience, and what I have observed in my friends and family (vast majority of which are married, or in long term relationships - good, happy ones), is that when things are right - they just fall into place.

 

There was never these extreme consternation, I can't imagine successful relationships are often born from these starts that are so perplexing.

 

It makes no sense to me.

[No_Go]

As said - time will tell Last time as said lasted 7 years... (surpassed 2 relationships in the same time)... Maybe I'm obtuse but not THAT obtuse to cause this to myself if it is not a genuine change in mindset...

 

My guess is it will die out abruptly soon if it is infatuation.

 

I possibly should update after our next meet but ...I'm sort of scared to do so in the forum

 

The "transition" is temporary at best. It's not a life change, it's a facade.

 

It's still really hard to shake the sense that you're being deliberately obtuse. You would rather talk about free will, unique relationships, the inevitable heat death of the universe and literally anything other than the reality that you are obsessed with a guy who rejected you. The sooner you acknowledge that, the sooner you can move on.

[Cookiesandough]

It probably belongs in the "Friendship" forum, since upon agreement, this is a friendship. "Friends and lovers" if it progresses

Edited October 26, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[No_Go]

It probably belongs in the "Friendship" forum, since upon agreement, this is a friendship. "Friends and lovers" if it progresses

 

Here is better because other people may share their atypical experiences as well. A few did already and I'm hoping to hear more stories.

[Cookiesandough]

Your situation is not atypical at all in the "friends and lovers" forum... but your thread/your decision and it will prob get more responses here from more people and about atypical relationships. You're right

[No_Go]

Out of curiosity - what is your MB type? I've noticed people that are 'sensing' (focus on the present, "here and now", factual and process information through the five senses) would agree with what you said.

 

Also, relationship does not need to be romantic one, I am probably repeating myself but a relationship with a family member, friend, coworker etc can be extremely powerful, impactful and complicated as well.

 

You know.....

 

All of this is as complicated as we choose to make it.

 

I am bewildered how convoluted, complex and what lengths some go to to make relationships "happen".

 

In my personal experience, and what I have observed in my friends and family (vast majority of which are married, or in long term relationships - good, happy ones), is that when things are right - they just fall into place.

 

There was never these extreme consternation, I can't imagine successful relationships are often born from these starts that are so perplexing.

 

It makes no sense to me.

[No_Go]

Your situation is not atypical at all in the "friends and lovers" forum... but your thread/your decision and it will prob get more responses here from more people and about atypical relationships. You're right

 

I call it atypical not for the friend/lover aspect - the *impact* of it is what is atypical: it made me rethink my priorities in life (not in dating, in life as a whole).

[Kamille]

Here is better because other people may share their atypical experiences as well. A few did already and I'm hoping to hear more stories.

 

The thing is, as we keep repeating, it's not atypical.

 

Do I have friendships that started out as unrequited love from one side or the other? Or friendships where we eventually flirted with romance and decided we were better off as friends? Or guys I dated who are now my friends? The answer is yes on all counts.

 

The difference here is that you seem to think this is bigger and better than friendship. Unilaterally, of course: he has no idea that he is currently in a non-traditional relationship that isn't a friendship or, heaven forbid, a traditional relationship. Nope. He thinks you agreed to be friends or, perhaps, since the phrasing was something like "not take things more serious" a casual dating situation.