Non-traditional relationships and assoiciated stigma

[Cookiesandough]

yea from what you said you didn't do anything wrong on the house date. I was picturing that you had a baby room with furniture and stuff and told him "5 year plan". Yeah...I feel like it would have died naturally after around the 2nd date if you didn't have it on life support

Edited October 27, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[lana-banana]

I think after 30 (or even after 25) everyone is more or less set in their life, but flexing is possible if we split domains. E.g. I'd be totally willing to leave all the social entertainment planning and choices to a partner. I really couldn't care less if he'll prefer us to stay home, go out on a concert or meet friends on Friday night. I'd do whatever he likes and makes him happy. Same with food choices, movie choices etc. I'm open and fluid on this. So why don't I pick another domain where HE should be open and fluid?

 

You can't front-load this. Relationship dymanics emerge naturally, not from a predetermined matrix of strengths and weaknesses. Yes, you will find yourself doing some things you excel at, but you'll also find yourself doing many things for whatever bizarre series of reasons.

 

This goes back to the bigger issue of you wanting to maintain the greatest amount of control over any potential relationship. Rather than meet someone and let chemistry develop, you are essentially trying to brute force your way into a predetermined result. As Recent Change said, it doesn't work that way. You have to be more open to the unknowable and unpredictable.

 

But yeah, I'd love to know a few signature dishes to entertain guests So I'd look for the Better Homes and Gardens cookbook, thanks for the advice!

 

To me, cooking is a thing you just learn to do as an adult; it's a basic element of being able to take care of yourself. It's like learning to clean your house efficiently, change a tire, and so on.

 

I love Food52 and NYT Cooking, but their recipes are definitely on the more advanced spectrum. My husband, who prefers a scientific approach to his cooking, likes Serious Eats. Cooking Light is a beginner-friendly publication with generally good recipes. I also like Skinnytaste for healthy weekday recipes.

 

My absolute favorite cook is Bert Greene, a food writer who did more to revolutionize American cooking than anyone except maybe Julia Child. He was an incredible writer and usually has wonderfully funny stories with all his recipes (which are consistently fantastic). If you can find any of his cookbooks for sale, get them!

[Cookiesandough]

yea

nvm xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Edited October 27, 2017 by Cookiesandough

[No_Go]

Haha, he hasn't peaked in my drawers I think He saw the empty room and the cookware.

 

someone who stated in his profile he wasn't relationship material, who read as being hesitant on dates, and says he isn't interested in anything serious with her I guess because of the other qualities, independent of these 'bugs'? Just the positives overweight the negatives.

 

Wait. He knows about the empty drawers? How? I've yet to ever have to explain my messy dresser drawers to any guests. They simply don't look there.

 

Still, I think this whole tangent is moot. He was wishy washy before the house date. A more interesting question - one I can relate to - is why No_Go is so attracted to someone who stated in his profile he wasn't relationship material, who read as being hesitant on dates, and says he isn't interested in anything serious with her. Why is that attractive?

[No_Go]

Thanks - I agree mapping and rationalizing don't ork so well when you have a second person involved (or groups - that's why I hate group settings )

 

build your house and life with a man in mind and expect him to come live with you and fit in, well that sounds weird and creepy to me Would you say the same if I was a man writing in this forum and made a thread about instead of going on vacations and having fun, investing all my savings to make a nest for my future wife and kids? How many women, honestly, would have ran away from such a guy?

 

This is quite a long thread.

 

I'm going to make a general observation. No_Go, my understanding is that you are rather intellectually gifted. The problem with a lot of intellectually gifted people is that they are all too good at mapping out hypothetical situations (your ideal relationship), and rationalizing things to draw out the conclusion they desire (how things ended with the last guy and the real lessons you actually *should be* drawing from that, as opposed to how you *want to* look back at things such as saying it was a "non-traditional" relationship frowned upon by our supposedly uptight society).

 

Anyway, *of course* both partners including the guy have to be flexible. But to e.g., build your house and life with a man in mind and expect him to come live with you and fit in, well that sounds weird and creepy to me. And to other guys except maybe the moochers. A guy who is actually into a relationship will run the other way.

[No_Go]

It doesn't even need to be 'turning tables'. The guy in question gave me a good example: his family. His mom and dad were taking turns in providing for the family. One will stay home for a couple of years, then will find a job and the other one will stay. To me that sounds like a dream situation if they can afford it.

 

she wont be sexually satisfied and the issue of having kids would be a problem You know, he said somewhere in his profile questions he's past the desire of having kids and sexually he prefers mutual masturbation of something in that lines... So I guess you're right, even if he was interested in a relationship with me, it likely won't have led to kids & sex (sexual activities - maybe yes).

 

I dunno.....seems like all she was doing was "nesting"....A lot of women do the same things...

 

And quite honestly, if she wants to be the heavy in the relationship, who cares?? Guys have carried the freight since forever, and now that we are in the supposed age of enlightenment and equality, now its a huge problem?? Not sure I understand it...and even though I could never be that type of guy, I don't have issue with a turn of the tables here..

 

I don't really see the problem, outside of the fact that its probably a solid bet she wont be sexually satisfied and the issue of having kids would be a problem...

 

 

TFY

[lana-banana]

build your house and life with a man in mind and expect him to come live with you and fit in, well that sounds weird and creepy to me Would you say the same if I was a man writing in this forum and made a thread about instead of going on vacations and having fun, investing all my savings to make a nest for my future wife and kids? How many women, honestly, would have ran away from such a guy?

 

Honestly? I would have run away, ten million percent. It's one thing to save for the future, but if a man had empty drawers he was saving just for his *future wife* and was expecting me to eventually move in to his house, with his furniture, his life---nope, never, absolutely not. That's a nightmare.

[No_Go]

Time will tell if true friendship grows from this _ true.

 

I have rarely heard of a situation where the well worn cliche, "I only like you as a friend" actually resulted in a bona fide friendship _it this case, there is a base (common interests). I shared I had similar story with tables turned and it did result in a good friendship (3.5 years so far).

 

This is a fun discussion. To get back to bare bones:

 

This does not qualify as a non traditional relationship

 

The OP may be well advised to ramp it down quite a few notches

 

Time will tell if true friendship grows from this.

 

Buzz killer again, but I have rarely heard of a situation where the well worn cliche, "I only like you as a friend" actually resulted in a bona fide friendship. There is no base. I don't question that it can and does happen, but infrequently.

[No_Go]

Do you know why they split up?

 

I don't know about him, or you, but the last thing I wanted while single was to date a copy of my ex.

 

I think he overall couldn't figure out what he wants/where he wants to be, moved around, left for another country, and the things just couldn't progress.

 

She is similar to him, not to me (she maybe similar to an older version of me that he's not aware of ). She's also an extrovert, in performance arts etc - so on the surface the presentation is very different. I bet money she was driving their entire relationship and he didn't have to lift a finger to 'chase' her.

[No_Go]

yea from what you said you didn't do anything wrong on the house date. I was picturing that you had a baby room with furniture and stuff and told him "5 year plan". Yeah...I feel like it would have died naturally after around the 2nd date if you didn't have it on life support

 

:lmao:

 

Possibly after the third date when he left for his trip...

[No_Go]

Relationship dymanics emerge naturally, not from a predetermined matrix of strengths and weaknesses - This to me sounds possible for younger people but people set in their ways... It would be too much of compromises and exploration.

 

This goes back to the bigger issue of you wanting to maintain the greatest amount of control over any potential relationship. I'm just not the 'just let things happen' type of person. Not only for dating, for everything. I'm trying to be more open to unknowns, but honestly - it just gives me anxiety and no pleasure *even if* I get the result, if it happens outside of my control.

 

To me, cooking is a thing you just learn to do as an adult; it's a basic element of being able to take care of yourself Got it, I didn't understand it initially because I don't really eat cooked food, you can say I eat like a teenager . I'd love to find some of the books that you recommended, thank you! It's a good chance to put the cookware in action.

 

You can't front-load this. Relationship dymanics emerge naturally, not from a predetermined matrix of strengths and weaknesses. Yes, you will find yourself doing some things you excel at, but you'll also find yourself doing many things for whatever bizarre series of reasons.

 

This goes back to the bigger issue of you wanting to maintain the greatest amount of control over any potential relationship. Rather than meet someone and let chemistry develop, you are essentially trying to brute force your way into a predetermined result. As Recent Change said, it doesn't work that way. You have to be more open to the unknowable and unpredictable.

 

 

 

To me, cooking is a thing you just learn to do as an adult; it's a basic element of being able to take care of yourself. It's like learning to clean your house efficiently, change a tire, and so on.

 

I love Food52 and NYT Cooking, but their recipes are definitely on the more advanced spectrum. My husband, who prefers a scientific approach to his cooking, likes Serious Eats. Cooking Light is a beginner-friendly publication with generally good recipes. I also like Skinnytaste for healthy weekday recipes.

 

My absolute favorite cook is Bert Greene, a food writer who did more to revolutionize American cooking than anyone except maybe Julia Child. He was an incredible writer and usually has wonderfully funny stories with all his recipes (which are consistently fantastic). If you can find any of his cookbooks for sale, get them!

[No_Go]

Honestly? I would have run away, ten million percent. It's one thing to save for the future, but if a man had empty drawers he was saving just for his *future wife* and was expecting me to eventually move in to his house, with his furniture, his life---nope, never, absolutely not. That's a nightmare.

 

I know you're off-market so it doesn't apply to the real situation, but if hypothetically you happen to be single at the moment, what would you do with your home? Expect to leave it behind and build a new one from scratch if you get 'coupled'? (because you're against moving into someone else's home and the idea I have to move in someone else with me)

 

People can't both restart their lives if they happen to become a couple later in life. That's not realistic or sane.

 

Btw of course I'll compromise on furniture if someone really insists on bringing theirs. I just wanted to be ready for any scenario.

[NuevoYorko]

would you say the same thing about instead of going on vacations and having fun, investing all my savings to make a nest for my future wife and kids? How many women, honestly, would have ran away from such a guy?

 

No, I would not say that same thing about a man or a woman doing the above.

 

Saving empty drawers, having a baby room and cookware for the little woman to use when she arrives to do the food prep around the place - YES, I would think it was tremendously creepy for a man to do these things. Probably more so than a woman because we are conditioned in a way that will allow us, with some adjusting, to attribute this to "nesting," which is evidently acceptable for women.

 

It's not even related to saving up for the future.

 

Look. If there is a new couple and they are planning to start a life and build a home together, the allocation of drawers has NOT been planned before the partner ever came into the picture. This is a kind of thing that develops organically between people. Even if one of them is ultimately going to allocate drawers, this would be in the context of their relationship with one another.

 

This is worlds apart from providing a defined compartment for someone yet to be met to fit into. That is profoundly controlling and unless you want 100% men with no lives, you'll need to do some work on yourself. It's not about the drawers, cookware etc. It's about control issues and how they will, without fail, interfere with you forming a successful and fulfilling relationship with anyone.

[NuevoYorko]

 

But I checked his ex gf (I know it's a bad idea) and she's very similar to him. Like a female copy of him (not visually - interests and attitudes). And he's very hang up on her (mentioned her on our first meet), although it has been many many years since their break up and she married to someone this summer.

 

There is no way you can have a realistic assessment of what his ex is like, besides in a completely superficial way, from a social media page.

 

You don't know what he is really like. You barely know him.

 

This is projection.

[No_Go]

Hey I think you're twisting my words a little The 'baby room' was a joking term Cookies made up, obviously making a long-term investment makes sense to plan for rooms for more people. My second kid's room is right now my cat's room If I don't have a second kid - it will stay cat's room indefinitely The 'baby room' is now a guest room. You see what i mean.

 

For the drawers - except that I blurted it out here, nobody else knows the motivation. You can interpret it as just not having enough clothes. Or having too many drawers.

 

It's about control issues and how they will, without fail, interfere with you forming a successful and fulfilling relationship with anyone. Yeah I do have some control issues - I just don't like the 'go with the flow' approach. It makes me unhappy. Does this mean I'm better off to stay single? Or find a specific type of a partner? Because that's a personality type, not something that can be (easily) changed.

 

No, I would not say that same thing about a man or a woman doing the above.

 

Saving empty drawers, having a baby room and cookware for the little woman to use when she arrives to do the food prep around the place - YES, I would think it was tremendously creepy for a man to do these things. Probably more so than a woman because we are conditioned in a way that will allow us, with some adjusting, to attribute this to "nesting," which is evidently acceptable for women.

 

It's not even related to saving up for the future.

 

Look. If there is a new couple and they are planning to start a life and build a home together, the allocation of drawers has NOT been planned before the partner ever came into the picture. This is a kind of thing that develops organically between people. Even if one of them is ultimately going to allocate drawers, this would be in the context of their relationship with one another.

 

This is worlds apart from providing a defined compartment for someone yet to be met to fit into. That is profoundly controlling and unless you want 100% men with no lives, you'll need to do some work on yourself. It's not about the drawers, cookware etc. It's about control issues and how they will, without fail, interfere with you forming a successful and fulfilling relationship with anyone.

[No_Go]

Of course is a projection to some extent. She is as said in performing arts so I 'stalked' a few videos to get an idea what she's like (yes you can tell by body language etc). I'm not claiming to have deeply psychoanalyzed the situation, right?

 

There is no way you can have a realistic assessment of what his ex is like, besides in a completely superficial way, from a social media page.

 

You don't know what he is really like. You barely know him.

 

This is projection.

[Cookiesandough]

Maybe he seeking someone like his ex physically & mentally...A lot of people look for something close to their exes but they date to see what's out there. Their expectations are messed up because of this

[No_Go]

Maybe he seeking someone like his ex physically & mentally...A lot of people look for something close to their exes but they date to see what's out there. Their expectations are messed up because of this

 

That will suck because I’m way better looking than her No offense but I’m not pulling the au naturale look that she’s sporting no matter if he likes it or not

[Cookiesandough]

hahahaha...probably you are. I've dated guys objectively far better looking than my ex but it's like he's just perfect in my eyes and I cant shake it..and I'm the one who broke up with him xD but you often get GIGs especially if the break up wasn't horrible...

 

I think most men guys have a type of woman they like personality wise as much as physically if not more.. and as ES said, 'introverted' men typically like 'extroverted' (to an extent)women.

[No_Go]

hahahaha...probably you are. I've dated guys objectively far better looking than my ex but it's like he's just perfect in my eyes and I cant shake it..and I'm the one who broke up with him xD but you often get GIGs especially if the break up wasn't horrible...

 

I think most men guys have a type of woman they like personality wise as much as physically if not more.. and as ES said, 'introverted' men typically like 'extroverted' (to an extent)women.

 

For the looks I was somewhat joking, I know attraction is in the eyes of the beholder. Just this lady is one of these people that let everything as the nature created it I’m sure you can picture the type I’m talking about. Like the homeless-looking hippie chick.

 

Personality-wise, if he wanted a more extroverted, artistic type, he shouldn’t have contacted me in the first place But maybe GIGS or just curiosity led him.

[Cookiesandough]

lol yes, I know the type xD my ex's ex was that type and it annoyed me because I'm not like that even though we are visually sort of similar (hair, face shape etc.) And yes into our rship he asked me to grow out a bush :/

[Gaeta]

I think he overall couldn't figure out what he wants/where he wants to be, moved around, left for another country, and the things just couldn't progress.

Seems he hasn't changed much.

 

She's also an extrovert, in performance arts etc - so on the surface the presentation is very different. I bet money she was driving their entire relationship and he didn't have to lift a finger to 'chase' her.

 

When I am in this thread I feel like I am stuck in a paralleled dimension. So she's an extrovert that pursued him, didn't he tell you or wrote in his profile that he can't stand aggressive women that go for what they want? and anything looking like a woman pursuing him is a turn off?

[NuevoYorko]

Hey I think you're twisting my words a little The 'baby room' was a joking term Cookies made up,

 

Copy

 

For the drawers - except that I blurted it out here, nobody else knows the motivation. You can interpret it as just not having enough clothes. Or having too many drawers.

That is not pertinent. We're talking about your mind set with regards to a potential future relationship.

 

Yeah I do have some control issues - I just don't like the 'go with the flow' approach. It makes me unhappy. Does this mean I'm better off to stay single? Or find a specific type of a partner? Because that's a personality type, not something that can be (easily) changed.

 

You seem very married to your "personality type." You know, the reason for those tests is to help people understand and learn how to identify and work on aspects that may be blocking them from achieving something in their lives. If I blindly succumbed to all the traits of my personality type I would never come out of my home (extreme introvert) unless it was to risk my life or the lives of others (adrenaline junkie). That's not how I choose to live my life.

 

If you are not willing to relinquish control and "go with the flow," you won't be able to have a relationship unless, as I said before, it's with a man who has no life. A completely passive person with no presence in his own life. Relationships DEVELOP. Both people grow into them or at least that's how it's supposed to work.

 

You can still be a control freak in many aspects of life but when you try to apply that onto another person, or to make the development of any relationship conform to your rigid parameters, it won't turn out very well.

[No_Go]

lol yes, I know the type xD my ex's ex was that type and it annoyed me because I'm not like that even though we are visually sort of similar (hair, face shape etc.) And yes into our rship he asked me to grow out a bush :/

 

Oh no :lmao: Our stories seem so similar. Is this the new look that men go for?! I'm seeing this more and more and apparently this passes as cool girl look, but I simply like my dresses and make up too much to go for it :lmao: This guy also stated he's into natural body hair :/

[NuevoYorko]

 

 

 

When I am in this thread I feel like I am stuck in a paralleled dimension. So she's an extrovert that pursued him, didn't he tell you or wrote in his profile that he can't stand aggressive women that go for what they want? and anything looking like a woman pursuing him is a turn off?

 

I'm finding that for almost every proclamatory statement made here by NG, a direct and almost verbatim contradiction can be found, sometimes on a different thread.