Found hairs that aren't mine.

[Zahara]

I find it very sad that the fact that he treats you and your children with such contempt is not enough of a reason for you to leave...

 

^^ This ^^

 

If anything, the emotional and mental welfare of your children should be enough motivation for you to leave.

[S2B]

Be prepared for what you may see on the camera. It could be anything/anyone...

[Pequeen1]

^^ This ^^

 

If anything, the emotional and mental welfare of your children should be enough motivation for you to leave.

 

Didnt say it wasnt enough for me to leave....others on here did. Sometimes it takes time for people to see the situation for what it is, lose all hope that it will get better, plan for a different future and execute that plan.

[Pequeen1]

I want to know if you yourself contracted the herpes? Would this take into account during the divorce?

 

i did not contract it. According to the attorney and Virginia law i have grounds to sue him and grounds for divorce. Virginia also has a 1 year separation period....

[S2B]

i did not contract it. According to the attorney and Virginia law i have grounds to sue him and grounds for divorce. Virginia also has a 1 year separation period....

 

I'd get that rolling on both counts.

 

 

He put you at risk all through the years. You can't trust him.

 

And let the gal know too - the one who's been leaving her hair all over your territory - she deserves to know she is also at risk... when you find out who it is.

 

Do not tell him you're informing her.

[Pequeen1]

I'd get that rolling on both counts.

 

 

He put you at risk all through the years. You can't trust him.

 

And let the gal know too - the one who's been leaving her hair all over your territory - she deserves to know she is also at risk... when you find out who it is.

 

Do not tell him you're informing her.

 

If i find out who it is or if there is someone else, id feel an obligation because he hasnt told ANYONE who he has been with in 30 years. And there were quite a few.

[Zahara]

Didnt say it wasnt enough for me to leave....others on here did. Sometimes it takes time for people to see the situation for what it is, lose all hope that it will get better, plan for a different future and execute that plan

 

Then the bold is what you should be doing rather than setting up cameras.

 

The situation has been what it is for years now. A 61 year old man isn't suddenly going to turn around and change into the man you hope he can become. They don't change especially at that age.

 

You are 34. Give yourself and your children a chance. You see it for what it is but you cannot accept it. This is likely a delaying tactic.

[S2B]

I went back to read your original post.

 

It doesn't matter who's hair it is - your husband is a jerk - he's no partner and he's untrustworthy.

 

 

No matter what you find out you must start doing some things to become independent of this jerk.

[BaileyB]

Didnt say it wasnt enough for me to leave....others on here did. Sometimes it takes time for people to see the situation for what it is, lose all hope that it will get better, plan for a different future and execute that plan.

 

I hear that and I don't disagree. You are not there yet... this much is clear. You are all over the map - clearly identifying the issues with your husband, sharing that you have been preparing to leave, and yet stalling to make the decision until you get "proof" of infidelity. If "proof" is what you need to feel at peace about leaving the marriage, then that is what you need.

 

At this point, proof of infidelity would be unnecessary for me. My time and emotional energy is too valuable to waste anything more on this man. But, acceptance is a difficult thing, and every person comes to acceptance in their own way and in their own time.

Edited November 3, 2017 by BaileyB

[BetrayedH]

My $.02

 

Get your proof. It’s a life altering decision for a lot of people in your life. You need to be confident in this decision. Give some serious thought to your boundaries and dealbreakers in the interim (and steel your resolve to keep to them) or you may find yourself trying to forgive infidelity, too. You may even find that you agree with the others that the status quo is already beyond a healthy boundary for you and that serious ultimatums or filing is merited even without proof of infidelity.

 

And bear in mind that you don’t need to prove anything to him, only to yourself.

 

Lastly, even when you have your proof (or something close to it), resist the temptation to confront him. The confrontation serves NO purpose. Instead, stay stupid and compliant until your attorney says otherwise. In most states, judges don’t care about infidelity. They are known as no-fault divorce states, meaning that they don’t care who is at fault and they simply split the kids and split the stuff. I didn’t look up Virginia but there’s a chance that they do care (meaning that it can affect custody and alimony) in which case you’d want admissable proof that’s hard to come by. Short story...the best confrontation is done by an officer of the court serving divorce papers.

 

In my case, Florida judges are permitted to consider infidelity (but almost never do) but the last thing my wayward wife wanted was a court case where my proof of her adultery would become part of a public record. That helped me get a better settlement out of her.

[Pequeen1]

I went back to read your original post.

 

It doesn't matter who's hair it is - your husband is a jerk - he's no partner and he's untrustworthy.

 

 

No matter what you find out you must start doing some things to become independent of this jerk.

 

I pulling away....he gets more snarky as i do. Tough cookies.

[Pequeen1]

My $.02

 

Get your proof. It’s a life altering decision for a lot of people in your life. You need to be confident in this decision. Give some serious thought to your boundaries and dealbreakers in the interim (and steel your resolve to keep to them) or you may find yourself trying to forgive infidelity, too. You may even find that you agree with the others that the status quo is already beyond a healthy boundary for you and that serious ultimatums or filing is merited even without proof of infidelity.

 

And bear in mind that you don’t need to prove anything to him, only to yourself.

 

Lastly, even when you have your proof (or something close to it), resist the temptation to confront him. The confrontation serves NO purpose. Instead, stay stupid and compliant until your attorney says otherwise. In most states, judges don’t care about infidelity. They are known as no-fault divorce states, meaning that they don’t care who is at fault and they simply split the kids and split the stuff. I didn’t look up Virginia but there’s a chance that they do care (meaning that it can affect custody and alimony) in which case you’d want admissable proof that’s hard to come by. Short story...the best confrontation is done by an officer of the court serving divorce papers.

 

In my case, Florida judges are permitted to consider infidelity (but almost never do) but the last thing my wayward wife wanted was a court case where my proof of her adultery would become part of a public record. That helped me get a better settlement out of her.

 

The proof would be for me just to have leverage when he started to twist things...because he would. Virginia it takes a lot to prove infidelity....right now its more about me staying to save money and wait for someplace to move to that is the least effect on my kids, same schools and whatnot. The more time that goes on the easier the choice gets.....last night i tried to talk to him about our 3 year old manipulating the situation at bedtime to stay up later...saying hes hungry. We went through same thing with the older one. When i said we need to not let him do this it suddenly was about me not having dinner ready at the same time every day and me suddenly coming up with all these "rules". Needless to say i snapped and told him if i had help maybe dinner would be ready at the same time every day but he just sits on his ass. He told me whatever, not to pretend that im perfect.

[amaysngrace]

I think you're smart to take this time to get everything organized so that you leave exactly on YOUR terms. It seems as though you are very informed and are doing exactly what you need to do to make this work in your and your children's favor.

 

Good for you!!

[CC12]

The proof would be for me just to have leverage when he started to twist things...because he would.

 

But...no. I don't think this is going to work the way you think it will. Like, with a normal person, if they were confronted with proof of their cheating there would be a humble, apologetic response. He's not going to do that. He's going to turn it around on you, just like he turned your young son's bedtime manipulation on you and made it your fault. He'll say, "You wouldn't have sex with me anymore [on account of the herp] so what did you expect me to do?" You know he has a propensity to twist things, so I'm not sure why you're expecting him to not twist your ""proof."" (Air-quotes included because that seems like something he would use to belittle your stance and make you feel stupid, along with probably an eye-roll.)

 

Unless you're wanting proof for legal reasons? I was under the impression that infidelity doesn't matter much in divorces nowadays, but maybe it matters in your situation? Have you confirmed this with a lawyer?

Edited November 5, 2017 by CC12

[Popsicle]

Do you work full time?

 

If not, you need to. It's the only way you'll be able to leave.

[road]

But...no. I don't think this is going to work the way you think it will. Like, with a normal person, if they were confronted with proof of their cheating there would be a humble, apologetic response. He's not going to do that. He's going to turn it around on you, just like he turned your young son's bedtime manipulation on you and made it your fault. He'll say, "You wouldn't have sex with me anymore [on account of the herp] so what did you expect me to do?" You know he has a propensity to twist things, so I'm not sure why you're expecting him to not twist your ""proof."" (Air-quotes included because that seems like something he would use to belittle your stance and make you feel stupid, along with probably an eye-roll.)

 

Unless you're wanting proof for legal reasons? I was under the impression that infidelity doesn't matter much in divorces nowadays, but maybe it matters in your situation? Have you confirmed this with a lawyer?

 

There is a difference between being caught and admitting.

 

and

 

Being caught and blaming the BS with false justifications.

 

 

OP wants the truth so he cannot say he did not cheat. Her goal

is to get proof so she has her justification to divorce him.

[usa1ah]

This is something i struggle with daily. I started saving money a while ago and saw an attorney after the herpes thing and i talked to husband and he told me i was going to throw our marriage away for something minor. He doesnt see why im unhappy...the things that bothered me before. He will "try" for a few weeks and then when he doesnt get the response he wants immediately he quits. He tells me that hes never said the things hes said....sadly i have a great memory.

 

Im worried about screwing up my kids by leaving. Im worried about screwing them up by staying....

 

You will learn what a relationship is by what they see in yours.

[BetrayedH]

Some interesting reading on divorce on the basis of adultery in Virginia...

 

Adultery is a fault-based ground for divorce in Virginia. Unlike some other divorce grounds, there is no waiting period before filing on the ground of adultery. Adultery can be very difficult to prove, but if proven may have serious financial implications in the divorce, at least on the issue of spousal support.

 

How to Prove Adultery in Virginia

 

Adultery occurs when a married person voluntarily engages in sexual intercourse with a person that is not his or her spouse. To qualify as a divorce ground, your spouse’s affair must have become physical—culminating in sexual intercourse. Mental or emotional affairs do not count. Being overly familiar with a new friend at work is not enough. Proving adultery means proving sexual intercourse.

 

Virginia law requires “clear and convincing” evidence for a finding of adultery, a higher standard of proof than other grounds for divorce. Thus, to prove adultery, one must provide the court with clear and convincing evidence that one’s spouse in fact had sexual intercourse with another person.

 

Virginia law also requires “corroboration” of the adultery—i.e., evidence or testimony from some outside source (not just your own word or even your spouse’s own admission) that your spouse committed adultery. Eyewitness testimony, though, is not required. Adultery can be proven using circumstantial evidence.

 

What type of evidence might suffice to prove adultery? Your spouse’s own statements, in text messages or e-mails, would potentially be powerful evidence as to whether he or she had sex with the new person. But the exact wording of the messages is very important. An e-mail stating “I enjoyed having sex with you last night” (or words to that effect) would go a long way in proving adultery. An e-mail stating simply “let’s meet for dinner at that romantic restaurant tomorrow night,” by comparison, would not alone prove adultery.

 

Now, e-mails, text messages, or other evidence that the spouse’s relationship with the new person is a romantic one: those are all solid evidence. They help your case. But you need something a bit stronger at the core of your case, something very clearly pointing to an act of sexual intercourse.

 

That strong core of your case could be a very explicit admission by your spouse—either a direct admission to you upon being confronted with the affair, or perhaps a clearly worded admission in an e-mail or text message. Remember, though, even if your spouse admits to the adultery, you will need to provide the court some “corroborating” evidence (love letters, photographs, etc.).

 

Many adultery cases are built by hiring a private investigator to follow the spouse under suspicion, and gather the type of powerful evidence needed to prove a case for adultery. For example, the investigator may photograph the cheating couple holding hands through a romantic dinner, then checking into a motel room. The investigator may watch them go into their room, and come out the next morning—looking a bit, shall we say, disheveled. That investigator has now built a case for adultery.

 

Given the high standard of proof, and the corroboration requirement, proving adultery in Virginia can be very difficult. It will require a certain kind of evidence to overcome the “clear and convincing evidence” requirement, and prove not just that your spouse is having a romantic relationship with another, but that the relationship has culminated in sexual intercourse.

 

Defenses to an Adultery Charge. Virginia law provides several possible defenses to a charge of adultery. The successful establishment of any one of these defenses will bar the entry of divorce on the ground of adultery:

 

Condonation. Condonation occurs when the parties voluntarily resume sexual relations and continue living together after the innocent spouse learns of the adultery.

 

Connivance/Procurement. Connivance or procurement occurs when the “innocent” spouse actually encourages or facilitates the adultery.

 

Recrimination. Recrimination is proof that the accusing spouse is guilty of one of the fault-based grounds for divorce (cruelty, adultery or desertion). For example, if the wife is accusing her husband of adultery, but the husband can prove that his wife also engaged in adultery, then the husband could use the defense of “recrimination.”

 

Time-Barred. Adultery has a five-year statute of limitations as a divorce ground in Virginia, which means that if the divorce suit is filed more than five years after the adultery, the divorce will not be granted on the adultery ground.

 

The Fifth Amendment. Adultery is not only a ground for divorce in Virginia, but it is also a class four misdemeanor under Virginia Code § 18.2-365. Because adultery is a crime in Virginia, a spouse accused of adultery in a divorce can assert their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination, and refuse to answer questions about the adulterous behavior. This contributes to making adultery very difficult to prove as a ground for divorce in Virginia. In effect, the criminal law against adultery serves to shield those accused of adultery in their divorce cases. For more information, see Adultery As a Crime: Impact on Virginia Divorce Cases.

 

Impact of Adultery in a Virginia Divorce

 

When someone rear-ends you at a stoplight and you end up with a broken leg, they (or their auto insurance carrier) pay your medical bills, plus a little extra for your pain, suffering and inconvenience. If your doctor commits medical malpractice in the course of your healthcare, you are compensated in a similar fashion. If you slip on a wet floor at the supermarket, again, the supermarket may have a duty to make things right.

 

But what about a cheating spouse? Does the law compensate for a broken heart in the same way as a broken leg? Do Virginia courts require your wandering spouse to “make things right” in hard, monetary terms? Will a judge sway a divorce settlement in your favor since you are, after all, the wronged spouse?

 

Not exactly. Virginia law does not exact any type of “fine” or punitive damages from the spouse who committed adultery. Adultery may have an impact on the distribution of the parties’ marital assets and debts—although not as much as you might think. And in most cases adultery will not significantly impact the court’s rulings on child custody and visitation. It is only on the issue of spousal support that adultery usually has a tremendous impact.

 

Property Distribution. The court is allowed (and in fact directed) to take one party’s adultery into account when deciding how to divide the marital estate—however, in most cases the adultery won’t have much of an impact here.

 

In stark, unforgiving terms, your spouse’s infidelity does not require him or her to fork over more than 50% of the marital assets. So, for example, even though you may feel your cheating spouse wrecked the marriage with their indiscretion, you will not automatically receive more than 50% of the marital portion of their 401(k) as compensation. A sympathetic judge may award you a slightly larger share in select circumstances, but the emphasis here is on “may” and “slightly.” Most judges will adhere to the Virginia Code and case precedents, which dictate that adultery usually has no effect on the equitable distribution of assets.

 

In a seemingly cruel twist, Virginia law also guarantees your philandering spouse his or her share of your contributions to the marital estate. So, don’t presume that your pension is off the table simply because your spouse had an affair.

 

There is a caveat worth mentioning here. The court can factor one party’s adultery into the distribution of property and debts where the adultery is shown to have had certain “economic consequences.” Meaning, for example, if your spouse dissipated the marital assets in the pursuit of his or her secret tryst, the court will account for that in the division of assets. This is to ensure that you are not financially penalized for your spouse’s spontaneous weekends to the Poconos that did not include you.

 

In most cases, whatever gain (if any) that you might achieve in the division of marital assets, based on your spouse’s adultery, will probably be outweighed by the tremendous time and cost involved in proving the adultery. For example, even if you somehow win a 55/45 split of marital property, you may well have spent so much in legal and private investigator fees, that you would have been better off with a 50/50 split and a no-fault divorce.

 

Child Custody. Proving the adultery may not help that much in a custody and visitation battle. Virginia law directs the courts to look at several factors when determining custody, but one parent having an affair is not one of them. The court may prohibit exposure of the children to any new boyfriend or girlfriend prior to the finalization of the divorce, but is not likely to deny a cheating spouse primary custody and/or visitation based solely on the adultery.

 

Spousal Support. And then we come to the issue of alimony or “spousal support” as it is called in Virginia. This is the one area where proving a case of adultery may be extremely useful in your divorce. Proving adultery by your spouse will usually prevent him or her from receiving any spousal support whatsoever from you. Meaning, if you were the primary breadwinner during the marriage and would normally owe some monthly amount of alimony post-divorce, that is probably now off the table. The spouse who cheated will usually receive no spousal support in Virginia.

 

However, adultery is not necessarily a complete bar to the adulterous spouse receiving spousal support in Virginia. Rather, the court may still award the adulterous spouse support in some cases, based on (1) the relative finances of the parties and (2) the relative degrees of “fault” of the parties. For example, where a husband can prove his wife committed adultery, but the wife can show (a) that her husband earns much more money than she does, and (b) that her husband engaged in egregious behavior that was in fact (rather than her adultery) the central cause of their breakup, then the court could still award the wife alimony.

 

Leverage. Finally, adultery occasionally provides some helpful leverage in negotiating a favorable settlement. While some adulterous spouses seem completely impervious to the proverbial airing of “dirty laundry,” the majority would prefer to retain some dignity and move on with their lives. When the alternative is having their indiscretions showcased in open court, many such spouses agree to give their wronged ex a little more home equity, provide a tad higher support payment, or maybe take on slightly more credit card debt.

 

The Pros and Cons of Divorce Based On Adultery

 

If you believe your spouse is engaging in an affair, you are probably considering filing for divorce on the ground of adultery. While doing so may seem like the most straightforward and beneficial path in your case, you should be aware from the outset of certain obstacles, and be prepared to carefully weigh the pros and cons of filing on this ground.

 

Let’s start with the pros. Filing for divorce on the ground of adultery may be personally cathartic for you. In so filing, you are definitively stating that your spouse has behaved badly in your marriage. Furthermore, you are forcing your spouse to defend his or her behavior, and you may finally get answers to some of your questions.

 

Another positive aspect of filing on the ground of adultery is that there is no waiting period, unlike fault-based grounds like cruelty or desertion, which have a one-year waiting period. You can file for divorce on the adultery ground immediately. However, understand that a contested case filed on the ground of adultery may take many months, or even a year or more, to play itself out in court. So, you are not necessarily saving any time by filing on the adultery ground.

 

Also, successfully proving that your spouse committed adultery may well prevent him or her from receiving spousal support, as stated above.

 

But what are the cons to filing on adultery? As explained above, between the the corroboration requirement, the “clear and convincing” standard for evidence, and the application of the Fifth Amendment, proving adultery is not easy. Whether the court will find your evidence sufficient will depend on how credible the judge finds your evidence, including any witnesses, and how specifically you can prove the time, place, and circumstances of the alleged extramarital affair(s).

 

Finally, if you are debating whether or not to file for divorce based on the ground of adultery, remember that “condonation” is an affirmative defense for your spouse. In other words, if your spouse claims and the court believes that you “condoned” the adulterous behavior, the court will not grant you a divorce based on the adultery. Condonation essentially means “forgiveness,” which can be shown through your decision to resume sexual relations and continue living with your spouse. However, a new act of adultery by your spouse post-condonation may reactivate your adultery ground for divorce.

[Pequeen1]

Whew that was a lot to take in....

 

I’m not interested in trying to take more from him that what is needed to take care of my kids...not really worried about spousal support. Proof would only be to keep him from being able to explain it away or twist it. I’ve learned with trying to discuss the herpes situation and my feelings on that that the only way to get through to him is presenting him with proof. Feelings and opinions gets twisted and somehow I’m to blame. I’ve written letters, they still get twisted.

[Pequeen1]

I think you're smart to take this time to get everything organized so that you leave exactly on YOUR terms. It seems as though you are very informed and are doing exactly what you need to do to make this work in your and your children's favor.

 

Good for you!!

 

Thank you. It’s a major life move and not one I want to take lightly.

[S2B]

Whew that was a lot to take in....

 

I’m not interested in trying to take more from him that what is needed to take care of my kids...not really worried about spousal support. Proof would only be to keep him from being able to explain it away or twist it. I’ve learned with trying to discuss the herpes situation and my feelings on that that the only way to get through to him is presenting him with proof. Feelings and opinions gets twisted and somehow I’m to blame. I’ve written letters, they still get twisted.

 

That's a narcissist for ya...

[Pequeen1]

That's a narcissist for ya...

 

Took me a long time to see it. He’s very subtle. And it’s a total mind f*ck.....even now after getting into it with him on Friday night about our youngest bed time habits he’s suddenly stepped up and helped clean yesterday by vacuuming and dusting.

[BetrayedH]

Whew that was a lot to take in....

 

I’m not interested in trying to take more from him that what is needed to take care of my kids...not really worried about spousal support. Proof would only be to keep him from being able to explain it away or twist it. I’ve learned with trying to discuss the herpes situation and my feelings on that that the only way to get through to him is presenting him with proof. Feelings and opinions gets twisted and somehow I’m to blame. I’ve written letters, they still get twisted.

 

Sorry it was so lengthy; just seemed like a good read.

 

I understand not wanting to take him to the cleaners. It’s just good to know your options.

 

I do still think you’re caught in the typical trap of feeling like you have to prove his infidelity to him. He doesn’t need proof; he knows the whole truth. Unless you truly want to file based on adultery (which at least gets you out of the year waiting period), it’s only you that must be convinced. You can rest assured that he will follow the usual cheater’s handbook of lying, denying, minimizing, gaslighting, and repeating. He may very well NEVER admit to anything (especially to friends, family, etc.) even in the face of indisputable evidence. Don’t let his admission be your standard for divorce. Just get enough evidence to be confident in your choice. Don’t expect him to agree, nor should you expect to convince others.

[Pequeen1]

Sorry it was so lengthy; just seemed like a good read.

 

I understand not wanting to take him to the cleaners. It’s just good to know your options.

 

I do still think you’re caught in the typical trap of feeling like you have to prove his infidelity to him. He doesn’t need proof; he knows the whole truth. Unless you truly want to file based on adultery (which at least gets you out of the year waiting period), it’s only you that must be convinced. You can rest assured that he will follow the usual cheater’s handbook of lying, denying, minimizing, gaslighting, and repeating. He may very well NEVER admit to anything (especially to friends, family, etc.) even in the face of indisputable evidence. Don’t let his admission be your standard for divorce. Just get enough evidence to be confident in your choice. Don’t expect him to agree, nor should you expect to convince others.

 

I really appreciate the info!!! Was way easier to comprehend then most of the stuff I’ve found myself!! Thank you

[Pequeen1]

I hate that there is still this small part of me that expects or hopes for a change.... Thats where the total tornado of emotions come from. I count the Valtrex still expecting that hes going to actually be taking it like hes told me he does...daily. NOPE. I still hope that he will sit at the table with us for dinner...nope not even when my brother and i both at separate points say you can sit with us here, he just ignores us. I still hope that he will back me as a parent and step up....only when i point out that he doesnt and then it slowly goes back to how it was.

 

I need to stop having any expectations. And when i think about not having any I wonder about why i would be ok with that.