Wife wants to separate

[PegNosePete]

what's the right way to do it then? go kicking and screaming and cussing at them. if a person wants out then they want out -- but that does not mean they need to loose all their manners and not be civil about it.

Eh? It is perfectly possible to tell your spouse you want a divorce and are not open to reconciliation and to make it clear that this is a permanent separation not a "trial", without screaming, cussing, or losing of manners.

 

The right way to go about it would be honest, open and pragmatic but firm and decisive.

[jjgitties]

Eh? It is perfectly possible to tell your spouse you want a divorce and are not open to reconciliation and to make it clear that this is a permanent separation not a "trial", without screaming, cussing, or losing of manners.

 

The right way to go about it would be honest, open and pragmatic but firm and decisive.

 

thats assuming you are a "pragmatic and decisive" person to begin with. There are people in this world who are not "pragmatic and decisive" and just go about life that way. They get into marrages not being particularly "pragmatic and decisive" and agree with the other "pragmatic and decisive" person who dragged/cohersced them into it.

 

at the same token, there are people who are not "pragmatic and decisive" who become miserable and unhappy and have to go about breaking things off in a "unpragmatic and undecisive" way.

[PegNosePete]

there are people who are not "pragmatic and decisive" who become miserable and unhappy and have to go about breaking things off in a "unpragmatic and undecisive" way.

And those are the people who do it in the "wrong" way, which tends to end up with the other person getting hurt, led on, confused, angry, bitter.

 

Everyone has control over their own actions. If they choose not to do it the right way then that is a choice they make. Blaming it on "I'm just not like that" is a poor excuse.

[nyclion]

Firstly, heartfelt thanks for all your advice and perspectives. Seems like most of you have seen this movie before. I am just a few minutes into it. Spoilers are welcome!

 

I will try to answer some of the questions asked

 

- is she planning on getting a job?

Long-term that is her plan. To do voluntary work in order to gain experience in her chosen field, so she can work in the sector that she wants to. But she is not filling in job applications right now.

 

- did she complain about financial situation?

no, she has never had to complain, because she has very little knowledge of our finances. I earn the money, she spends it. Very simplistically.

 

- where is her travel in November? Is she taking the kids?

She is going overseas to see her sick mum for 10 days (totally understandable as her mum won't be around forever). Bad timing as I need to travel for work that week so we have a nanny living in to look after the kids. Then she is going overseas again for a conference in Europe related to her voluntary work (a bit more dubious if that is really necessary). I will look after the kids those days.

 

- "women don't leave without a plan"

I don't think that she is planning to leave. Her hope was that I would move out for a trial separation, and she would stay in the home with the kids and her life would continue as normal. That won't happen because I am not going to move out, and she couldn't keep the apartment on her own. So she will need to rethink that one.

[nyclion]

Anyhow, I followed advice above and had a free consultation with a lawyer. He was very clear: DO. NOT. MOVE. OUT. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. He also described a "trial" separation pretty bluntly as "bulls##t"

 

Do not move out for 2 reasons:

1) puts me in a worse situation for child custody arrangements.

2) we can't afford 2 places when the payments on our home are so high

 

He also gave the following advice:

1. Make copies of all financial documents

2. Make sure there are no fights so 911 is not called (I hadn't thought of this one, but we haven't had any violent fights)

3. Do not try to force her to get a job as it will just make her defensive

 

Some of you said to do a hard 180. I am not sure that will work. She has been complaining of lack of emotional connection. If I cut off all emotional connection then I am just confirming her doubts. She had a panic attack last weekend and I comforted her through it. She hugged me after and said that for the first time in a long time she felt a small amount of connection to me.

 

We went through our monthly finances at the weekend and I showed that we can't afford 2 apartments without a drastic cut in standard of living. She started crying as she feels the emotional upheaval of moving with destabilize her and the kids (last couple of times we have moved she was always low afterwards because of the boxes, mess, overwhelming amount of things to do)

 

In bed we hug sometimes at night (but nothing more). We talk in the morning. Last week she met me near my office at lunchtimes to help me buy some pants and I went with her to get some of her clothes altered. I kiss her hello and goodbye on the cheek - but if I try to kiss her on the lips she complains that I am putting too much pressure on her. So there are signs, but I know that if I press her to ask how she is feeling then I will get the same answer - she does not love me and wants a separation.

 

Overall I am trying to give her space, try to connect emotionally, hope for the best, but prepare myself mentally that is could be over.

[Marc878]

Again!!!! Check your phone bill online

[healing light]

When did the sex stop in your marriage? Was it gradually? Suddenly? She's having issue with being kissed on the mouth? When did that stop?

[salparadise]

 

Some of you said to do a hard 180. I am not sure that will work. She has been complaining of lack of emotional connection. If I cut off all emotional connection then I am just confirming her doubts. She had a panic attack last weekend and I comforted her through it. She hugged me after and said that for the first time in a long time she felt a small amount of connection to me.

 

 

I think you have to change something if you want something to change. I don't know that it would fix everything, but you've already been patient, loving and trying your best to please... and look where it has gotten you. Nowhere. She's pushing you away and you're falling all over yourself to appease. Have you ever considered that having this kind of control is meeting her needs in some perverse way and only serves to perpetuate the situation?

 

My ex-wife used to bring up the D-word thinking that was her trump card, and that I would always fold. You should've seen the look on her face the first time I "okay, I'm so sick of this sh*t. Let's just do it." It didn't ultimately save the marriage, but it sure did change the game.

 

Here's what I would consider in your situation... sit her down and just tell her that you've done everything you know how to do and she's still not happy so it time to set her free. That it's not what you hoped for, but given circumstances, which are beyond your control, you intend to start living life on your own terms, taking care of yourself and moving forward. Tell her that you aren't leaving and that she will need to find herself a new place to live and start paying her way. That you intend to stay in the home and keep the kids with you. That you will no longer be carrying her burden because you have more than enough of your own, and now you will be the primary caretaker for the kids as well. Wish her luck and ask her to find a new place by the end of the month. Tell her to have her lawyer contact yours, but not to expect windfall because you've already determined that finances are tight. Tell her that you intend to retain primary custody of the kids and she will be allowed ample visitation. Wish her luck with her new life.

 

The alternative would be for her to get serious about reviving the marriage. I know this is not where you are that this moment, but being Mr. Nice Guy isn't getting you anywhere, and I don't think that's going to change.

 

And from your perspective... do you really want to spend your life trying to appease a woman who takes, takes, takes, and never does a damn thing to meet your needs? This will diminish you beyond anything you can imagine. Something has to change, and you need to be assertive, take care of yourself, and refuse to be her doormat.

[BluesPower]

I think you have to change something if you want something to change. I don't know that it would fix everything, but you've already been patient, loving and trying your best to please... and look where it has gotten you. Nowhere. She's pushing you away and you're falling all over yourself to appease. Have you ever considered that having this kind of control is meeting her needs in some perverse way and only serves to perpetuate the situation?

 

My ex-wife used to bring up the D-word thinking that was her trump card, and that I would always fold. You should've seen the look on her face the first time I "okay, I'm so sick of this sh*t. Let's just do it." It didn't ultimately save the marriage, but it sure did change the game.

 

Here's what I would consider in your situation... sit her down and just tell her that you've done everything you know how to do and she's still not happy so it time to set her free. That it's not what you hoped for, but given circumstances, which are beyond your control, you intend to start living life on your own terms, taking care of yourself and moving forward. Tell her that you aren't leaving and that she will need to find herself a new place to live and start paying her way. That you intend to stay in the home and keep the kids with you. That you will no longer be carrying her burden because you have more than enough of your own, and now you will be the primary caretaker for the kids as well. Wish her luck and ask her to find a new place by the end of the month. Tell her to have her lawyer contact yours, but not to expect windfall because you've already determined that finances are tight. Tell her that you intend to retain primary custody of the kids and she will be allowed ample visitation. Wish her luck with her new life.

 

The alternative would be for her to get serious about reviving the marriage. I know this is not where you are that this moment, but being Mr. Nice Guy isn't getting you anywhere, and I don't think that's going to change.

 

And from your perspective... do you really want to spend your life trying to appease a woman who takes, takes, takes, and never does a damn thing to meet your needs? This will diminish you beyond anything you can imagine. Something has to change, and you need to be assertive, take care of yourself, and refuse to be her doormat.

 

I have read all of this thread, and I am thinking that she is having an affair. So if you do your work, you will find out that she is... It is almost guaranteed.

 

Further, do you understand what we mean when we say to stop being MR. NICE GUY? Because that is the first thing you need to stop doing, like yesterday.

 

You are treating her like a princess, and brother she is not. She is lazy and you have enabled that.

 

So, I am going to say that she needs to get a job of some kind. That way it shows the court that she is capable of working and it may reduce your alimony when you divorce.

 

But here is the main point... She is most likely screwing around on you and you need to really do the detective work to verify that one way or another. But do not be passive about it, and think that there is no way she could do that. Because there is a way and most likely she is.

 

You have to stop being passive and make some strong moves like FILING FOR DIVORCE. And honestly, do you really want to be with an entitled princess that does not love you and only has you there to pay the bills?

 

I should think not. And, no matter what is going on, you filing for divorce may at the very least wake her up about what she is about to through away...

[sandylee1]

I'm sorry but this is a ridiculous generalisation. Women can and do leave marriages without another man in the wings.

 

Time for you to get evidence for women do not leave

their husbands unless they have already have his replacement

in place, an affair

 

She could have fallen out of love add she said. Het mother having cancer may also be part of the reason. The realisation that life is too short.... to live in a marriage you arent happy in is a genuine issue.

[PegNosePete]

- is she planning on getting a job?

Long-term that is her plan. To do voluntary work in order to gain experience in her chosen field, so she can work in the sector that she wants to. But she is not filling in job applications right now.

Long term? That is what she tells you. But her actions indicate that this is a load of BS. Long term her plan is to divorce you and live off your alimony for the rest of her life.

 

I earn the money, she spends it. Very simplistically.

And that is exactly what she will expect to continue, post divorce. She will apply for joint lives alimony.

 

- "women don't leave without a plan"

I don't think that she is planning to leave. Her hope was that I would move out for a trial separation, and she would stay in the home with the kids and her life would continue as normal. That won't happen because I am not going to move out, and she couldn't keep the apartment on her own. So she will need to rethink that one.

Well, that is a game plan. She can afford to keep the apartment if you're funding it through your alimony.

 

Anyhow, I followed advice above and had a free consultation with a lawyer. He was very clear: DO. NOT. MOVE. OUT. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. He also described a "trial" separation pretty bluntly as "bulls##t"

Great! Now see another lawyer, and another. Always get 3 quotes when you're getting a new front door, a new boiler or selling a house. So get opinions from 3 lawyers.

 

2. Make sure there are no fights so 911 is not called (I hadn't thought of this one, but we haven't had any violent fights)

Yes absolutely. There are many, many stories on these forums from men who were never violent but had a minor disagreement, the wife called the police, and the man was removed to keep the peace. Once he is out he never gets back in the house, of course. If the police do get called then you need to act TOTALLY calm no matter what your wife says to them.

 

She has been complaining of lack of emotional connection. If I cut off all emotional connection then I am just confirming her doubts.

Look..... I get why you would make that logical connection. But this logic is flawed. She is not making logical decisions here, she is making emotional ones. She wants out of the marriage. She feels emotionally disconnected (most likely because she is having an affair). When you're trying to re-establish an emotional connection you are simply annoying her. That is having exactly the opposite effect you think it is having!

 

Women respect strong men. You need to say to her, no more of this BS. You either want to work on the marriage or you don't. If so then we go to marriage counselling tomorrow. If not we go to court tomorrow. Choose.

 

And as has been said many times, you need to go full detective and check for signs of an affair.

[BluesPower]

I'm sorry but this is a ridiculous generalisation. Women can and do leave marriages without another man in the wings.

 

Time for you to get evidence for women do not leave

their husbands unless they have already have his replacement

in place, an affair

 

She could have fallen out of love add she said. Het mother having cancer may also be part of the reason. The realisation that life is too short.... to live in a marriage you arent happy in is a genuine issue.

 

That is true Sandy... but in a situations like this one, it is a very high probability that she is having an affair.

 

As it is OP is treating her like a princess and she sees that and obviously has ZERO respect for him.

 

I am betting affair...But I could be wrong...

[Rockdad]

I believe I spoiled my ex or she got that way same result, there was no undoing it. She wasn't coming off her throne no matter what. About any personal inconvenience became a crisis I was to manage.

[S2B]

Make her get a job now! Otherwise you will be paying way more to her when you divorce.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Blues I agree with you. A woman who gets everything on a platter, blows up money she does'nt earn and then has the gall to say that her husband isn't pulling his weight on the emotional front has to be the biggest Process type going around. She has the right to fall out of love while her husband is working his a.. Off providing her a cushy lifestyle and so she can make expensive foreign trips a number of times a year? Maybe her BF 8s from her country of origin and she blows her husbands money to go sleep with him whenever it tickles her fancy.

 

I think it is time for OP to man up and start living life for himself. His wife needs to face some hard knocks and come down to mother earth. Peg-nose- Pete is right on the mark with his advice and the OP would be well served to take it in the right spirit. Just my thoughts on this. Warm wishes.

[nyclion]

OP back here. Thought I would update you all. Again, thx for all the helpful advice and perspectives. There are plenty of hardbitten divorced guys on this forum, enough to start a private detective agency:laugh::laugh:. That's probably the advice I need

 

Firstly, I have kept my eyes open and can't see any sign of OM. Findmyiphone, text messages, emails, cellphone records, all clean. So far, so good. I don't suspect an OM, and so far this confirms what thought.

 

Right now my wife is wavering between a separation, and living separate lives in the same apartment for the sake of the kids (she says until they go to college which is about 12yrs!!). Also she says she thinks she is depressed again because of our relationship. If she could turn a switch and love me again she would, but she can't. She can't forgive me for times when I did not pay her enough attention or emotional connection, playing back to me things that happened 5, 10, 12 years ago.

 

For my part, I am going to IC, keeping fit and healthy etc. I am firm on not moving out, which my wife describes as me being "difficult". Moving out is bad because we can't afford 2 places and I don't want to leave my kids, whom I love to bits. I would rather get divorced now than move out into some half-assed unstable situation. I think that a trial separation is doomed to failure. She thinks that it is our only chance (reverse psychology?).

 

We have MC tonight - the final session after about 1yr, so we will see what is said there.

 

I have to 'fess up with you all and say that I am not ready to do a 180. Maybe I will be at some point, but not yet. I do hear all the advice though.

Edited December 7, 2017 by nyclion
spelling

[S2B]

Did your wife get a job yet? Seriously, you need her working full time!

 

Why would she not be working when all your kids are in school now? She wants to be free? Time for the real world then = work work work!

 

Stop being so nice about her not loving you - she's about to royally screw you over!

 

Cut off her money and ALL extras/luxuries! When she sees she has consequences for leaving the marriage - she MIGHT start to appreciate you! But either way you don't need to be her personal atm/bank! She can earn her own money from here moving forward.

 

For the record - I'm a woman - and you my dear - are being taken advantage of.

[PegNosePete]

Right now my wife is wavering between a separation, and living separate lives in the same apartment for the sake of the kids (she says until they go to college which is about 12yrs!!).

And you're being a doormat, letting her call all the shots. What do you mean SHE is wavering between those 2 options? As if they are the only 2 options, and you will just blindly accept whatever she chooses?

 

A separation is a bad idea, just a waste of time. If she doesn't want to work on the marriage it means it's over and you should divorce. A "trial separation" is useless and as you say, doomed to failure.

 

Living "separate but not separate" is an even worse idea. It will be hell on earth, even for 1 year, let alone 12. What happens when she meets another man and wants to bring him home? You're not together any more so she has every right to do that, right? She might say 2I won't do that" but things change a lot and she's unlikely to stay single for years.

 

You need to stop reacting, and ACT.

Edited December 8, 2017 by PegNosePete

[lolablue17]

I think discribing you as "being difficult" because you don't want to move out, is an ugly, manipulative, disgusting thing to do, and it shows a lot about her character.

 

You can be very friendly and tell het that she has the right to move out. She will move out, and while this she must get a job for paying the extra appartment.

 

Tell her that when she refuses to do it, she's being difficult. Tell her that it's clear and obvious that she doesn't love you any more, and the proof of that is when she wants you to sacrifice everything, while she sacrifices nothing. It's a tipical behavior of spouses who don't love and respect their spouses. So you understand that you cannot rely on her morality and fairness. She is showing you that you are the last thing that she cares about on earth.

 

And don't be mistaken by her breadcrumbs effection. It's only a habit from the past, and mainly her understanding that she needs you money. She's carefull not to cross the line and not tohurt your earning ability.

 

And it's nothing to do with anything from the past. I know many people that I don't "love", and I certainly don't want to live with them. But I always try to be fair with them, what she's not with you.

[MJJean]

NYCLion, in most US states alimony is primarily determined by two factors: income and length of marriage.

 

Simply, the longer you are married the longer you'll be paying her. Living separate lives in the same apartment for another 12 years until the youngest is in college will mean you'll be supporting her for years, if not for the rest of her life. Do NOT artificially extend a sham marriage. You'll regret it later.

 

Since income is also a determining factor, she needs to get a job. The more she makes, the less you'll have to pay in support and alimony. Her decision to separate from you is also a decision to separate from your money. This is a reality she needs to truly understand.

 

The others are right. She's been treated too well. She needs to suck it up and prepare herself for the "separation" she wants. Put your $$ in an account you open in only your name. Other than the absolute essentials of housing, utilities, food, and basic personal grooming products, cut her off and tell her if she wants to pay for nannies, maid service, travel, new clothes, hair, nails, Starbucks, etc....well, she'll have to do what everyone else does and get a job because separating from you also means separating from your money.

[OatsAndHall]

 

- Should I continue to pursue her and try to win her heart back? Or just back off and give her space? How could I do that without leaving the apartment?

- Does anybody have any experience with a trial separation actually working and helping the marriage in the long term?

- When she realizes the financial reality of separation (paying 2 apartments so very little disposable income) will that change her views, or will women prioritize their emotional goals?

 

1. I, personally, would not continue to pursue her as I feel like it would become a one-sided situation where I was putting in all of the work to try and make things work. When I separated from my ex-wife, there were attempts at reconciliation but it became evident that I was the one that was going to have to "change" even though her actions and behaviors were destroying our relationship. And, honestly, I have always felt that infidelity and abuse are the only things that can't be worked through in a relationship if BOTH parties are trying.

 

2. In my experience, "trial" separations do nothing more than delay the end of the marriage. It's difficult to work on a marriage when one or both parties have gotten to the point where they don't want to be around one another. And, if she wants the separation, then she needs to move out; PERIOD. Don't leave your home; she is the one asking for the separation and she needs to deal with the ramifications of that decision.

 

3. Yes, having to live on her own and take care of herself financially will certainly put things in perspective for her. It's easy to complain about a "lack of eye contact" when you're being taken care of financially. But, I don't think it will change her "emotional priorities" and I wouldn't use it as a springboard for reconciliation. Her having to pay bills shouldn't be a catalyst for working on the marriage.

 

So, if I were in your shoes, I would lay it out in a pretty simple manner. If she wants a separation, so be it, but she needs to move out. And, I will also tell her that her moving out is an indication that she no longer wants to work on the marriage and that it's time to file for divorce.

[BarbedFenceRider]

And here she talks of lack of connection....She wants to live separate lives for 12 years. I spewed coffee out of my face when I read that. Start reading Narcissism personalities. I think some of it may apply.

 

BTW...When blues gets on the tip for affair, he's usually right. Sorry but true. You don't have a marriage over 10 years and then want to leave claiming, it's all the providers fault and I did everything....You (OP) deserve a real wife who will cherish you and elevate you. Not bring you down. She is checked out.

 

Kick her out and divorce. Even if you don't find infidelity (though highly doubtful) She is not being faithful. To have and to hold in sickness and in health. Good times and in bad. She broke the marriage vow. You did not.

 

Get back to sanity.

[S2B]

Why does SHE get to decide anything?

 

She wants out? Tell her to support herself fully and her lifestyle and then you'll discuss it.

 

You're being a chump. She doesn't even work and she's wanting more freedom? Sheez man, how much of a doormat can you be?

 

Start standing up for yourself! Tell her no to everything u till she supports herself!

[nyclion]

Thanks for the advice, all.

 

On Wednesday we went to our MC. My wife spent most of the session crying. She is depressed. She acknowledges that I have made big changes, but it is too late because her feelings for me have gone. She is angry - why did it take so long for me to make these changes? That was out last MC session with that therapist.

 

From my side, I feel hopeless. It doesn't matter how hard I try, nothing I do will ever be good enough for her. Unfortunately, I neglected her emotionally for years but spoiled her financially. She was not a strong person to begin with, she suffered abuse when she was a child, a traumatic family break-up, and she is prone to depression.

 

On Thursday she went to her IC session. I called her after - she said that she wants a separation. She says that is the only chance for us to reconcile, it has a 10% chance of working. She says that through our marriage we always did things the way I wanted, now she wants and needs this separation. She wishes that she still loves me but she does not currently. She continues to live in cloud cuckoo land and think that I am going to move out and life for her and the kids will continue as normal. Also, separately, her psychiatrist just upped her dosage of antidepressants.

 

So, finally, after all your advice, I am now doing a 180. It has taken me a while to get to this point, but chasing her around has got me nowhere. I am going to pull back. Also I am going to cancel our joint credit card (that had $9,000 of spending on it last month). And I will list our rental property for sale. I will also call a real estate broker to get a valuation of our family home.

 

When she asks, I will tell her that I still love her and am ready to start with a new MC therapist. But that it takes 2 people to work on a marriage. And if she is not going to work on it as well then, unfortunately, it is over. The "trial separation" (in her mind, me moving out) is never going to work, so if she is not going to work on the M then the only option is a proper legal separation which will mean dividing everything 50/50 and selling the family home, as neither of us can afford to keep it on our own.

 

Let's see what this brings. I predict lots of fireworks, tears, arguments from her.

 

I do feel deep pain in my heart for my children.

[BrokeInside]

Hello nyclion

 

Ive been through the same thing and we got the same profile, not in love with me anymore, she want out, she never work, i work too much and we did disconnect...

 

I did try everything too and just to find out she was having an affair during month.

 

I cant tell you this is the same case but my i cant see why she wont give you a chance if you try everything.

 

My wife was a pro to hide things, perfect liar and i will never think she will be able to do it.

 

So be very careful.

 

Im in the 180 stage, it s hard, i miss my kids evrytime theyre not with me, ive got very dark toughts, i still deeply love my wife.

 

It s been more than one month and im starting to recover, im sad but my energy is back. Im doing new things and this was finally not the end of the road for me even if i think it was.

 

So be brave, let the time heal you,strict no contact and keep minimum chat for the kids. you need to prioritize yourself. Before no contact, try to tell her everything you need because sometimes, you forgot things and just want to take the phone to tell her.

 

Today, sometimes i want to text her, im beginning to type and i m remembering we takes some vow to love each other all our life and this was just bull****, so at this point, any contact seems pointless, you have to let her go.

 

Best of luck, i wish you all the best for your life to come.