My relationship - or, is it still a relationship?

[NuevoYorko]

Ps. Is it selfish of me that I expect that, if we are a couple, we should communicate sometimes in a natural way?.

You're not a couple. All the things you are describing here - they are the components of your relationship. There isn't anything else except for in your hopes.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

They have deep intimacy problems (mostly stemming from bad childhood) and without sufficient interest from their side you cant "save" nor "heal" them.

 

Very very true. The more you say, Cathy, the more I don't think this guy is "hiding" anything, like another family. I think it's a combination of, like you said, him living in an "abstract world" and simply not having the emotional IQ to have a relationship beyond what he is offering. He's likely narcissistic, which he demonstrates by not asking about you at all but expecting you to fall in line with exactly how HE wants the relationship to go (sporadic communication and sex with every meetup).

[Cathy7]

Thank you so much All of you. Gia37, thank you for your accurate advice. I am so sorry to hear you suffered so much and I know that this suffering was very real and painful. There is nothing worse than being alone with someone supposedly precious. I hope that life is more generous for you now. Too many things happen in a completely unfair way and meet us so unexpectedly. I think that your advice is very accurate and I also have this feeling that I'm setting up for a heartbreak. I even imagine extreme situations (quite impossible, but why not to take it into account?) of what would happen if, for instance, we had a family. I mean, would I be able to rely on him (if this is what we have now?). I doubt so.

 

Cautiously Optimistic, thank you so much too. You are right. This has to do with the childhood bad experience. I believed we had a brilliant communication when we were trying to solve his problem. Now it's like I'm away but " in his heart" still. Like a photograph or a picture on the wall. I know and feel that he doesn't do it intentionally. I believe he thinks that everything is alright and our situation is perfect. That's why he was so offended that he didn't deserve such decision from me. I know that his intentions are good but the outcome is kind of different. And that's why it's especially hard for me to hurt him, knowing that he simply may not understand that something is wrong. I tried to discuss it but I think he will not change his mode of communication. And, indeed, it's about him. Unless I mention something about myself. i know he doesn't do it on purpose and I even know he has a good, beautiful heart. I think I understand now this saying that "sometimes love is not enough". All I will do will be observing his actions and modes of communication. I will try to invest in myself a little bit these days and see if he communicates and in what ways. We can always meet and it is so important to see if it's worth it. And yes, my "inner feeling" tells me that I should postpone it.

[Cathy7]

That's why I wanted to offer him space and wait for him when he is more ready.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

That's why I wanted to offer him space and wait for him when he is more ready.

 

But, it seems as if he's already shown you the maximum he can give. He likely will not change. There's nothing wrong, of course, with you being OK with the status quo, but you're not or you wouldn't have started this thread .

[1fish2fish]

Why is he telling you what to do and how to feel? And why are you even entertaining this?

 

He's not giving you what you need in a relationship, and it's time to put YOU first and YOUR needs.

[Cathy7]

Dear All, truly thank you. Very true. And, indeed, I wouldn't start this thread if I didn't feel that something is wrong. I was wondering if maybe things are ok and I'm demanding too much but I would like to communicate sometimes and share our inner lives with the person I love. Why I am to act like strangers with this supposedly most important person? He also wrote now that he is so scared of losing me. : ( I sense he began worrying and grew interested. And it makes me so sad to give him sadness and fear right now but it's very hard this way for me too. I decided that 1) I will be observing the steps he takes (if he takes initiative to communicate, what is this communication, etc., does he care what I'm doing here at all and where I am), 2) I will stop taking initiative to communicate (most of our communication was the result of my initiative to ask about him, although back then, in spring, when there was this problem, it was so different.. ). Let's see what will happen.

[BaileyB]

He wants to meet me very much but he will not act as if we "were only friends" and he insists on that. He said that my attitude (reluctance to sleep together) is "completely undeserved" since he showed me his feelings. Secondly, he told me that " he is meditating" and that I should think about doing it too, since he senses that I am in an inner turmoil inside.

 

Perhaps I should stop bothering and continue just observing things.

 

Cathy, with all due respect - this man is terrible.

 

To say those things to you is condescending, rude, disrespectful, and extremely manipulative. He wants to have sex with you, and he is attempting to guilt you, pressure you, and manipulate you into getting exactly what he wants - regardless of what you want from the relationship. That is NOT OK!

 

Please, don't continue to observe things. Tell him that the relationship is done. Spend your time and energy looking for a relationship with a man who will love you and treat you with the kindness and respect that you deserve.

 

Seriously, there must be someone else you can date... If I was you, I would rather spend the rest of my life alone than give this man one more minute of my time... I can't tell you how much I abhor his behavior. He has SERIOUS problems - why are you not seeing these red flags for what they are and taking the steps that you need to take to protect yourself from this man?

[gia37]

His behaviour is typical of someone with an attachment problem (read about "avoidant attachment"). These persons had a traumatic experience in childhood or their teen years when they were vulnerable (someone died or abandoned them or didnt give them the emotional/physical closeness they desperately needed) and they now perceive close attachments/intimacy as DANGER. Such persons keep others always at arm's length. But... as soon as they see that their "desire" object (or rather their "prey") starts losing interest, they make a sudden move closer... but as soon as you show more interest they are gone again. It's like chasing the wind on the fields.

 

This problem could maybe be fixed with lots of psychotherapy, but most such individuals dont even recognise they have a problem. They prey on insecure persons who also have attachment problems (maybe in the other sense, too clingy). I realised I am such a person and oh boy, all men I attracted were the avoidant type.

 

With them it's a dance that never ends... you make one step closer, they make two steps behind. And these persons can be successful professionals with high IQ (one I know has PhD in economy).

 

To me the key was to recognise I also had an intimacy problem. That was the reason I (still) continue attracting such men.

Edited November 12, 2017 by gia37

[stillafool]

Mainly, he wrote that he wants to meet me very much but he will not act as if we "were only friends" and he insists on that.

 

 

Please do not be flattered by this statement. He is saying this to make sure

 

that you know he is expecting sex. He sounds like he's saying he isn't going

 

to waste his time traveling for a "friends only" meeting to get to know you.

 

He wants sex with you pure and simple. Sometimes men will say anything to

 

get it then disappear afterwards. You don't know where this man lives,

 

haven't been to his home and you do not know him. If he were as in love as

 

you say he couldn't help himself from contacting you because he would want

 

to hear from you as much as you want to hear from him. Men in love don't

 

act like this. As far as his past "problem" making him to want this distance; I

 

don't believe and BTW is he getting professional help for it during his self

 

improvement process?

[BaileyB]

He could also have a significant mental health issue that is contributing to the difficulties he maintaining relationships and employment.

 

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm not entirely convinced that he had a significant trauma in his past... Perhaps, he had some unrealistic expectations for this person (as he does for you), and when is person failed to meet his expectations and could not be manipulated into doing what he wanted, he has responded with this victim mentality. It's possible - there are two sides to every story and right now, you are getting one side from a man who is very much in his head and has a way of twisting situations to meet his purpose.

[whatnot]

Dear All,

 

I would like to ask for your help and advice. I would be grateful for your help. I will try to make the long story short. After some time of being on my own, I decided to engage in a relationship again. I've met this brilliant, intelligent and sensitive man in a professional situation. After that, we started seeing each other. We live far away from each other but we organised meetings and our commuication was promising. He grew to be important to me. Mainly, I fell in love with him. As we got to know each other outside the professional field, I learnt unexpectedly that he was facing several problems connected with a bad experience from his past. This experience kept chasing him throughout his life and didn't let him be. He decided to change his life and start anew. Throughout the spring we kept talking it over and over again and I was trying to be very supportive, listening to him and being there for him with my support and heart. Then, something unexpectedly happened. He stopped communicating with me as we used to do, because he said that now he organised his life anew and has a new schedule to follow and, therefore, he is very busy but, he said, "he is doing what he can to communicate with me as much as he can and I should appreciate it." This communication was like typing sentences: "I send you hugs" (one sentence like that per day). I felt desolate and like we are strangers. I wanted to keep sharing, I was dying to keep learning about this man I loved so much and I was looking for other forms of communication. I was feeling sad that he doesnt want to know anything about me as well. I was feeling that he doesn't love me but the idea of me which is in hismind. Within three months we talked on the phone just for three times. I grew unhappy. I kind of felt that when his personal troubles ended, there was no room for me to learn more about him or to share with each other. Actually, all we ever talked about was his inner struggle. When it was over, it was as if communication wasn't so important to him.

 

I do not want our relationship to follow this pattern: not talking and sharing for months, then meeting for a holiday together, acting as a couple, and again falling into silence. It makes me feel insecure and unhappy, as I believe that I deserve to be with a man who would like to share with me also when we are apart. A man who would love to get to know more about me and about whom I would love to keep learning on daily basis. I mean really simple things, such as: "what you've been doing this week?".

 

We were meant to meet next month but currently I don't know what to do. I decided to have a conversation with him for yet another time and this time I offered my argument that it makes me unhappy that our relationship is based on silence and acting as a couple only when we meet. I know that when we meet his desire will be to sleep together and I am really reluctant to it now. It is not that I am not feeling attracted to him. I would love us to act like this because I do love him but I'm also feeling very insecure. My argument is that, if something unexpected happened,I feel that probably I wouldn't be able to count on him if he is so submereged in his own world. I mean, the beginning of relationship is always perceived as "the best". - What, then, would happen later? Moreover, I would like to act in a responsible way. Therefore, I suggested, we can meet up to simply spend time together and postpone 'big things" for later, when he is truly ready, or he can take his time ( I would wait), and we would begin a serious relationship when he is truly ready. I offered this argument to him as well and his answer was that I treat him unfairly because he is taking the effort of going all the way to see me. Moreover, he said, he is not talking with me much but he is doing the best he can. He got offended by this part about not sleeping together but I didn't mention it with a bad intention. I wanted to be sincere and specify how I feel in detail. Dear All, please, let me know what are your opinions on this matter. I never meant to hurt him. Never. I really love him. But, at the same time, I never felt more alienated in all my life. I feel like I am alone beside myself. I feel it is not how the relationship should look like. I feel like I'm dying for us to communicate. Not even every day, but at least once a week - but thoroughly, as if we are really into it. I really care and I want to have a feeling that he cares too.

 

My suggestion for him is that, perhaps, if he wants us to act as a couple during out meetings, we should postpone it until he also finds a little room for us in his daily life ( I would wait) so that I know that he is serious about us and I can rely on him in every situation. Please, let me know what are your suggestions?

 

Thank you!

 

Cathy

 

the story of my life from 2010 through 2016.

 

"If I didn't love you i wouldn't talk to you at all" lol **** that

 

I won't' bore you with the details...because....you're experiencing them....as we speak.

 

Trust me....that person is *not* losing sleep over this. It dovetails perfectly into his life. Your life? maybe....not so much?

 

take care

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

His behaviour is typical of someone with an attachment problem (read about "avoidant attachment"). These persons had a traumatic experience in childhood or their teen years when they were vulnerable (someone died or abandoned them or didnt give them the emotional/physical closeness they desperately needed) and they now perceive close attachments/intimacy as DANGER. Such persons keep others always at arm's length. But... as soon as they see that their "desire" object (or rather their "prey") starts losing interest, they make a sudden move closer... but as soon as you show more interest they are gone again. It's like chasing the wind on the fields.

 

This problem could maybe be fixed with lots of psychotherapy, but most such individuals dont even recognise they have a problem. They prey on insecure persons who also have attachment problems (maybe in the other sense, too clingy). I realised I am such a person and oh boy, all men I attracted were the avoidant type.

 

With them it's a dance that never ends... you make one step closer, they make two steps behind. And these persons can be successful professionals with high IQ (one I know has PhD in economy).

 

To me the key was to recognise I also had an intimacy problem. That was the reason I (still) continue attracting such men.

 

Great post! Describes my ex-husband me to a T.

[whatnot]

let me re-phrase....

 

what confuses us is that the relationship *is* important to him. It's important to him that...you be there....without him having to *negotiate*. It's on *his* terms.....100%.

 

So....it's troubling to us....when....they seems to care so much....(which they do)....but what *they're" losing is *different* from what we're losing.

 

The balance of the relationship is WAY unhealthy....for one person.....and WAY to good for the other.

 

Screw him. One man's opinion

 

Good luck

 

(and I'm so sorry for your situation. Trust me....I've been there and done this one. Ain't fun) best...

[whatnot]

be prepared for guilt. You're taking something from him that you know he cares about. And you don't want to do that.

 

Selfishness gets a bad wrap these days lol

 

*to thine own self be true....and it must follow....as the night the day...thou can not then be false to any man".

 

(smile)

 

hugs sent....

[whatnot]

sometimes....doing the right thing .... leaves us feeling guilty.

[Cathy7]

Dear BaileyB, thank you so much.I think you are right. This is definitely a mental issue combined with a significant trauma too. I believe it makes us unable to communicate. He even tells me that he cannot focus on so many things, including communication with me. Therefore, ikeep questioning the possibility of relying on each other in the future. I would love his current idea if I knew that I could fully rely on him.

 

 

QUOTE=BaileyB;7465145]He could also have a significant mental health issue that is contributing to the difficulties he maintaining relationships and employment.

 

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm not entirely convinced that he had a significant trauma in his past... Perhaps, he had some unrealistic expectations for this person (as he does for you), and when is person failed to meet his expectations and could not be manipulated into doing what he wanted, he has responded with this victim mentality. It's possible - there are two sides to every story and right now, you are getting one side from a man who is very much in his head and has a way of twisting situations to meet his purpose.

[Cathy7]

Thank you. I'm already feeling guilty, terribly guilty of hurting him. I feel like the balance is decidedly unequal. I also feel that he perceives it as something wrong in me because he already said that I have an inner unrest inside. I used to be very happy and joyful and I would be now too if only I could be sure what's going on. So many of you have been though the same here and I wonder it's also an important lesson to take these telltale signs seriously. I have to persuade myself into believing that there is nothing wrong in asking for a clear communication when he asks me for such important things.

 

let me re-phrase....

 

what confuses us is that the relationship *is* important to him. It's important to him that...you be there....without him having to *negotiate*. It's on *his* terms.....100%.

 

So....it's troubling to us....when....they seems to care so much....(which they do)....but what *they're" losing is *different* from what we're losing.

 

The balance of the relationship is WAY unhealthy....for one person.....and WAY to good for the other.

 

Screw him. One man's opinion

 

Good luck

 

(and I'm so sorry for your situation. Trust me....I've been there and done this one. Ain't fun) best...

[Cathy7]

Thank you. Yes, he is not going to travel to get to know me merely. I know where he lives since we met afterwards but you are so right. I mean, I have this longing to communicate with him which he doesn't have.. and still he claims that we are doing a relationship.

 

Please do not be flattered by this statement. He is saying this to make sure

 

that you know he is expecting sex. He sounds like he's saying he isn't going

 

to waste his time traveling for a "friends only" meeting to get to know you.

 

He wants sex with you pure and simple. Sometimes men will say anything to

 

get it then disappear afterwards. You don't know where this man lives,

 

haven't been to his home and you do not know him. If he were as in love as

 

you say he couldn't help himself from contacting you because he would want

 

to hear from you as much as you want to hear from him. Men in love don't

 

act like this. As far as his past "problem" making him to want this distance; I

 

don't believe and BTW is he getting professional help for it during his self

 

improvement process?

[Cathy7]

Dear CautiouslyOptimistic,

 

I feel just the same. I feel like he lives in his inner reality and perhaps it is even surprising to him that I need to communicate or to share. I know he is not hiding anything. It all has to do with some mental angle of the problem.

 

 

Very very true. The more you say, Cathy, the more I don't think this guy is "hiding" anything, like another family. I think it's a combination of, like you said, him living in an "abstract world" and simply not having the emotional IQ to have a relationship beyond what he is offering. He's likely narcissistic, which he demonstrates by not asking about you at all but expecting you to fall in line with exactly how HE wants the relationship to go (sporadic communication and sex with every meetup).

[Cathy7]

Indeed, with all my feelings for him, it feels like this, mainly that it's better to live alone than in a situation where one is lonely in the presence of the person meant to be the closest. Dear All, all your advice points to the conclusion that I should put my feelings aside and use reason in order to offer myself the true happy ending - peace.

 

Cathy, with all due respect - this man is terrible.

 

To say those things to you is condescending, rude, disrespectful, and extremely manipulative. He wants to have sex with you, and he is attempting to guilt you, pressure you, and manipulate you into getting exactly what he wants - regardless of what you want from the relationship. That is NOT OK!

 

Please, don't continue to observe things. Tell him that the relationship is done. Spend your time and energy looking for a relationship with a man who will love you and treat you with the kindness and respect that you deserve.

 

Seriously, there must be someone else you can date... If I was you, I would rather spend the rest of my life alone than give this man one more minute of my time... I can't tell you how much I abhor his behavior. He has SERIOUS problems - why are you not seeing these red flags for what they are and taking the steps that you need to take to protect yourself from this man?

[Cathy7]

Dear Gia37, so true. I'm so sorry. And it may be the problem here as well. And yes, I kind of developed a huge emotional attachment to him already. Mostly I'm terrified that he will be hurt and I'm worried that if I say something, he will think the less of me. Perhaps you were doing something similar. I think I will undertake a serious action to protect what I need as well.

 

 

His behaviour is typical of someone with an attachment problem (read about "avoidant attachment"). These persons had a traumatic experience in childhood or their teen years when they were vulnerable (someone died or abandoned them or didnt give them the emotional/physical closeness they desperately needed) and they now perceive close attachments/intimacy as DANGER. Such persons keep others always at arm's length. But... as soon as they see that their "desire" object (or rather their "prey") starts losing interest, they make a sudden move closer... but as soon as you show more interest they are gone again. It's like chasing the wind on the fields.

 

This problem could maybe be fixed with lots of psychotherapy, but most such individuals dont even recognise they have a problem. They prey on insecure persons who also have attachment problems (maybe in the other sense, too clingy). I realised I am such a person and oh boy, all men I attracted were the avoidant type.

 

With them it's a dance that never ends... you make one step closer, they make two steps behind. And these persons can be successful professionals with high IQ (one I know has PhD in economy).

 

To me the key was to recognise I also had an intimacy problem. That was the reason I (still) continue attracting such men.

[Cathy7]

Thank you. I am also very sorry it happened to you. I feel your situation because the it is very strange: it's like you want to break the glass to attain the mutual understanding and there is no answer, so you can't even negotiate or discuss . I hope it will be better now. For all of us.

 

 

let me re-phrase....

 

what confuses us is that the relationship *is* important to him. It's important to him that...you be there....without him having to *negotiate*. It's on *his* terms.....100%.

 

So....it's troubling to us....when....they seems to care so much....(which they do)....but what *they're" losing is *different* from what we're losing.

 

The balance of the relationship is WAY unhealthy....for one person.....and WAY to good for the other.

 

Screw him. One man's opinion

 

Good luck

 

(and I'm so sorry for your situation. Trust me....I've been there and done this one. Ain't fun) best...

[Cathy7]

Today he wrote to me a sentence in which he describes the weather he has there. And also that he is well.. I decided not to inquire after him because I did it everyday before and if he likes, he can also ask about me. When he will move again the topic of seeing each other, I will tell him that I prefer us to meet merely in order to get to know each other better. It means that he will not come to see me and it will be also fair for me. I have different expectations of communicating and sharing and I think it's ok to negotiate our needs. He wants big things from our relation- ok, i want something too (I want a serious relationship)- although relationship should not be like "trading", I still feel it's fair enough to stick to our needs. I am always afraid to stand my ground with my needs since I always question myself, but not this time.

[Cathy7]

I told him that our communication is non existence and i cannot settle for such little things. He got offended and said that my words are totally undeserved. It is the quality of his feeling and not the number of conversations that counts, he said. The fact that he is not always present doesn't mean that his feeling is not more than those little things I mention. I tried to explain that serious relationship needs communication to build something truthful but in vain. I feel he is in his own world and doesn't understand.