Females only Job Position

[lindya]

Originally posted by Vega

Does no one want to be a secretary any more? Even women don't respect the job! That was a career move for me and I'm beginning to feel pretty bad about it after reading this thread. Have I been deluding myself that it's an honorable and respected position? I'm beginning to feel like crap about my job now and myself!

 

This was posted in response to Stargazer's comment about male colleagues treating her like a secretary.

 

The fact that Stargazer doesn't want to be a secretary is not a slur on the job. A secretary's role is a perfectly respectable one - but in all honesty, it just doesn't rank alongside a lawyer's role. That's why Stargazer doesn't want to be treated as a secretary. She wants her colleagues to recognise her professional status....indeed, she NEEDS to ensure they recognise that status in order to survive in her chosen profession.

 

As an attorney, Stargazer will most likely have an IQ in the top 3% (whether some of the males who read this board like it or not ) Her views and aspirations are not, therefore, representative of the majority of women. Moreover, she hasn't said that she doesn't respect the role of secretary. In fact, a well-organised and intelligent secretary is an absolute godsend for any lawyer. Problems can, however, set in where that secretary resents working for another female, and takes the view that "being a secretary was good enough for me, so why shouldn't it be enough for her?"

 

If you're secretly hungering after the respect that's afforded to the higher grade professions, and you won't be happy until you get that status....well, the new university year is about to start. It might not be too late to apply. If, on the other hand, you enjoy the job you do...who cares what status the sociologists or anyone else feels like attributing to it?

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by lindya

As an attorney, Stargazer will most likely have an IQ in the top 3%

 

Interesting. Does that mean that most people think a secretary has a lower IQ than an attorney? Or other professions that require extensive education? That's just something that never occurred to me - but maybe that is what it boils down to: people in general looking at professions as guideposts to intelligence. I used to be a secretary and I worked my way up into office management and in order to grow professionally I took some classes so that I'd have the piece of paper officially recognizing that I could do what I had already proven I could do. My IQ didn't change but I noticed the difference in the respect I received too when I had that piece of paper from a college that recognized it. I was able to move on (not necessarily 'up') from a straight secretarial role into one which required me to supervise administrative personnel. A lot of admin jobs now require a degree because they encompass a lot more than they used to and a lot of admin jobs are going away because so-called 'professionals' are now doing what they had their secretaries do before because they have the tools (technology) to do it faster themselves.

 

The degree also gave me some confidence when I'm supervising others too though. I don't know why or how to explain it, but as a secretary I took direction from 'staff' or executives with degrees and to take direction from someone who was at the same education level as me seemed like I was going sideways, or supervising someone at the same level as I considered myself felt a little like putting on airs. Like 'who am I to tell this person what to do' kind of thing. So maybe the respect works both ways - a pecking order. I had no problem in a lead role with file clerks or mail room clerks and people would assume (yes, that dreaded word 'assume') that because I was a secretary I could also work well in a mail room or file room. I could understand the mechanics of working there, but all the little details that make a file clerk or mail room clerk proficient comes from experience, not from a text book. Secretaries are the same way -- experience means so much more than class room learning alone. Applying the training sets people apart, not the training itself.

 

I'm rambling now and not getting my thoughts across right and I'm contradicting myself!

[Outcast]

Does that mean that most people think a secretary has a lower IQ than an attorney? Or other professions that require extensive education?

 

As far as I can figure it, that's correct. You're considered 'just' a secretary as you are 'just' a waitress or 'just' a hotel maid. A lot of executives and managers don't give much credit to people who do those jobs for the skills they require. This isn't to say all of them, of course - many execs do appreciate their staff.

[lindya]

Originally posted by HokeyReligions

Interesting. Does that mean that most people think a secretary has a lower IQ than an attorney? Or other professions that require extensive education? That's just something that never occurred to me - but maybe that is what it boils down to:

 

In daily office life, intellectual capacity doesn't necessarily matter. Confidence, popularity, good organisation, efficiency and leadership are the things that help people to form power bases. Sometimes people who have those qualities will overestimate their own intellectual ability a bit - as will their colleagues. I'm sure we've all worked with people who seemed confident, articulate and intelligent...but who fell flat when they attended a work related course that tested out their intellectual and academic abilities.

 

I bet there are thousands of secretaries out there who have a very high IQ. Equally there will be many who are utterly convinced they're infinitely brighter than their bosses...but who, were the matter put to the test in an academic environment, would be proved quite badly wrong.

 

A professional qualification provides clear evidence of intellectual achievement. That doesn't mean that people without the professional qualification weren't capable of obtaining it...but "I did" is generally a bit more convincing in the workplace than "I'm sure I could have done if I'd wanted to." That's why it helped you so much in your job to get that certificate.

[bab]

In our department, I am quite confident if it wasn't for our AA everything would fall apart. She's been here for close to 30 years, and things run smoothly. I once went to ask the department chair about additional funding, and his response was, "We'll have to talk to the boss..." He meant the AA. She IS a godsend!

 

As far as intelligence goes, in my field I'm around people who are considered super intelligent, and I think one of the most intelligent people I know is now unemployed. He was a 7th grade teacher then he switched to working an office job, his wife was in sales (she made LOTS more than him by the way) and they eventually quite their jobs and are currently travelling the world for 6 months. What I'm saying is that, no, a person's job is not necessarily an indication of their intelligence. More than half the men with PhD's in this department would FAIL miserably at the AA's job.

[cosmogal]

I think whomever is best qualified for the job is who you should hire regardless of what your wife says.... and if her being young and attractive is part of the "requirements" then so be it. A good looking woman at the front desk is very good for business

 

You may have a point alphamale, but to be truthful, that statement never sticks! Not to sound mean, but I can't tell you how many offices I've been to and the lady at the front desk it unattractive, older, heavier, and doesn't have that bubbly personality a Receptionist is supposed to have. I think people believe the ideal Receptionnist is a pretty woman at the front desk. For the most part, it never happens.

[cosmogal]

How many men want to make coffee for everyone. Order <a href="office%20supplies" onmouseover="window.status='office supplies'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">office supplies</a>. Make travel arrangements. Type up letters that others have written. Spend hours typing in numbers in spreadsheets. Making pretty slide-shows from other's work and thoughts and not be allowed to contribute one original idea to the context of the work and not the appearance of the work. How many men want to call building facilities to tell them to clean the bathrooms? I've had men come in and tell me to call because some other man plugged a toilet and there was crap all over.

LOL! That does sound true!

Call about the air - its too hot in my office. Go get me a new pen and pad. Call and get me some flight information. Type up my notes. Make me six copies of this. Wipe my ass. Blow my nose. [to his boss]== Sorry sir, I did not see that error, you are right it doesn't add up at all, this number should be #### instead of @@@ -- my secretary made a type and I didn't catch it. [back to his secretary]====we are making some changes, do the spreadsheet again, but change @@@ to ####. (never admitting that the mistake was in HIS calculations and not my typing)

 

Been there, done that!