Reasons why a woman should take her husband's last name and not reverse?

[Outcast]

It's not about doing away with traditions. There are people who decide against 'traditional' weddings, others who don't wear rings, and others who don't have the cake. Would you refuse to marry any of those people?

 

The point you seem to be missing is that tradition should not be forced by one person on another. The OP has several very good reasons for not adhering to tradition and therefore if her fiance loved her, he should be considerate of them.

 

The larger issue is that neither partner should force anything on the other partner if the other partner doesn't wish it. And to insist that someone do something your way or you'll have nothing to do with her is, to me, a huge massive red flag complete with sirens and flashing lights. We're not talking about traditions and their value but about how two people who claim to love each other treat each other.

[tanbark813]

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. I never said that the woman had to take my name. Just like I don't have to marry her. Everyone is entitled to their position on the issue highlighted in this thread.

[SoftDrink]

gee, loony, you sure anger easily over nothing.

 

chill out. people have different opinions than yours. deal with it.

[loony]

tanbark813, I think we will have to agree to disagree. It's your right to expect your future wife to change her name for you.

 

Originally posted by billybadass36

So do I, and I don't think that gives people permission to paint her as some submissive, helpless woman. Why is it that women that refuse to buy into the name-changing game are the ones picking this fight? Don't change your name - nobody's going to kick your ass for it, but potential "husbands" might take offense, rightly or wrongly.

Nobody called women who changed her name submissive or helpless. If you can cite it - great.

 

And I didn't pick the fight for fun. There was another thread with a similar topic where people said that a woman should change her name as a sign of love. Here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t68806

 

I also constantly hear that women who don't change their names are radial feminists and have issues. Why are you jumping to conclusions and judge people who don't like to do what everybody tells them to do? I don't think you have really read my argumentation but you just saw a woman not agreeing with some guys and doubting the status quo so you go off on your rant about women being too rebellious and quarrelsome.

 

Originally posted by Outcast

The larger issue is that neither partner should force anything on the other partner if the other partner doesn't wish it. And to insist that someone do something your way or you'll have nothing to do with her is, to me, a huge massive red flag complete with sirens and flashing lights. We're not talking about traditions and their value but about how two people who claim to love each other treat each other.

True.

 

In the end, I don't think that two people who are fighting over such a thing are really compatible.

 

Originally posted by SoftDrink

gee, loony, you sure anger easily over nothing.

 

chill out. people have different opinions than yours. deal with it.

Gee, SoftDrink, you sure have nothing to contribute to this thread, do you?

[Cecelius]

Originally posted by loony

 

In the end, I don't think that two people who are fighting over such a thing are really compatible.

 

 

Bingo.

[RecordProducer]

The new-age feminist has acquired this habit of denial of everything that can possibly be denied with arguments. She is entitled to everything and everybody owes her. The only thing she can't deny is that she delivers babies.

She wants to deny that men make more money than women. She wants to deny that women depend on men emotionally. She wants to deny that women want family and men are independent by nature.

[bab]

RecordProducer:

The new-age feminist has acquired this habit of denial of everything that can possibly be denied with arguments. She is entitled to everything and everybody owes her. The only thing she can't deny is that she delivers babies.

She wants to deny that men make more money than women. She wants to deny that women depend on men emotionally. She wants to deny that women want family and men are independent by nature.

 

I'm not sure what this has to do with the discussion, but I'll bite. SOME feminist believe SOME of these things. I used to think that I wasn't a feminist, but the more discussions I get in with more people I realize that's because I seem to have a view that world that isn't realistic. I'm gonna try and keep these views, but I'm not quite able to deny that I'm falling more and more in line with feminists every day. Anyway, being in a male dominated field, I know quite the number of true undeniable feminists. (I don't quite put myself in this category)

 

I have met quite a few that do have an air of entitlement, but these women don't get taken seriously. NONE of the women I have met deny that men make more money than women. As a matter of fact, one of the main topics of debate is WHY this is true. There have been countless studies, and all the feminists I know are NOT in denial about this topic.

 

I don't think you have to be a feminist to deny that women depend on men emotionally. Lot's of women do this. Of course there are lots of men that depend on women emotionally, they just don't wear their emotions on the outside.

 

Feminists don't deny that women want families. They are more likely to spend time discussing how to make this a reality without having to be defined only by their families. They discuss things like maternity leave, and daycare choices for out of town conferences so mom's can take their kids with them. I have never heard a woman who was in the mist of trying to have a career and a family ever say that derogatory things about stay at home moms. Actually, I know of two of these women who think stay at home parenting is best and who's husbands are stay at home dads. I do know of some high and mighty people (almost always childless) that say derogatory things, and again, they are rarely taken seriously.

[Cecelius]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

The new-age feminist has acquired this habit of denial of everything that can possibly be denied with arguments. She is entitled to everything and everybody owes her. The only thing she can't deny is that she delivers babies.

She wants to deny that men make more money than women. She wants to deny that women depend on men emotionally. She wants to deny that women want family and men are independent by nature.

 

Record, I think you're the smartest person to post here today

[Outcast]

The new-age feminist has acquired this habit of denial of everything that can possibly be denied with arguments. She is entitled to everything and everybody owes her. The only thing she can't deny is that she delivers babies.

She wants to deny that men make more money than women. She wants to deny that women depend on men emotionally. She wants to deny that women want family and men are independent by nature.

 

The intelligent woman comprehends that generalizations are stupid and that, as bab said, SOME women women might think SOME of those things but to paint all 'feminists' that way is just plain unfair and untrue.

[RecordProducer]

Thanks, Cecelius!

"Denial" has also another meaning. To deny things means to act as if they don't exist. To pretend not to be aware of the consequences.

A woman can't be a perfect mother and work 80 hours a week. Nature has made things in a way that children suffer, not benefit from their mothers' absence. Unfortunately. Also nature has gifted men generally with greater capability of making money. This is a man's world not because god said so, but because that's the position things have taken in the society.

 

The relationship between men and women is always in development process. In my opinion, we haven't come to the point where women and men are literally equal. And if you ask me, I don't want that moment to come, because I feel perfectly fine in these conditions.

 

When a woman feels ready to make a great career and good money, pick up a guy who she will support and have kids with him that HE will take care of (be a stay-at-home dad), in other words when roles are reverse from what's considered to be normal nowadays then I will understand that she demands from him to take her last name. I could actually imagine women being delighted at this option, just like many men and women want to work, make money and raise children equally. But you need the other party's consent for that too.

 

When you don't have a consent, you need to fight for what you believe is right. I remember when women were fighting for rights in the history (right to vote, abortion, etc.) and I can't not admit that they've done a great job. But I think some women go too far and start asking things that they don't need. As they say 'be careful what you wish!'

 

Maybe it's men's fault that women feel so insecure nowadays and want to be granted a chance (by the society) to make everything on their own. I got married, changed my last name, had two babies, was a stay-at-home mommy, and my husband left me after only a couple years. I don't regret taking my ex's last name, now I have the same name as my children, and if I re-marry I will do it again. But I understand the point of those women who are generally bitter at men. If a woman has children and is then left by their father and needs to work and take care of the kids and manage on her own and eat all the crap from the society then why the hell do we need men at all? To pamper us until they get bored of having sex with us? Until they realize that we demand some responsibility from them?

 

I am not a feminist, it's against my nature, but I do understand why women are worried about their dependence on men. I am very much worried myself. But I can't beat 'em so I'd rather eat... errr... join 'em!

[Outcast]

But I understand the point of those women who are generally bitter at men.

 

[SoftDrink]

Originally posted by loony

 

 

 

Gee, SoftDrink, you sure have nothing to contribute to this thread, do you?

 

actually, yes, i did...but your bitterness clouds your perception.

 

life's fun, try having one.

[april]

Originally posted by whichwayisup

PS I'm not explaining who Don Cherry is. If you don't know, GOOGLE it!

 

LOL!!!...and when the heck is hockey starting again, eh?

 

edit* to add : sorry about the hijack

[loony]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

The new-age feminist has acquired this habit of denial of everything that can possibly be denied with arguments. She is entitled to everything and everybody owes her. The only thing she can't deny is that she delivers babies.

She wants to deny that men make more money than women. She wants to deny that women depend on men emotionally. She wants to deny that women want family and men are independent by nature.

I don't know what you're reading into my posts but I've seen you jump to weird conclusions a couple of times. It's probably just another of these. Either that or you're trying to get attention. If you're trying to label me as a feminist now, then I can tell you - first, I don't care, being a feminist is not the worst thing in the world. Second, being a feminist doesn't mean denying differences between men or women - neither the biological ones or nore the ones created by society - get that straight.

 

If you look at the replies of male posters you can see that most of them got a little bit upset, obviously I touched some sensitive spot there. Why do they feel like this? Obviously they feel that someone is threatening their territory and the best defense has always been to denounce their female opponent as feminist (tsktsk, what an ugly ugly word )

 

Originally posted by Cecelius

Record, I think you're the smartest person to post here today

Guys, they still think they are the ones who choose in the dating game...

 

Originally posted by RecordProducer

And if you ask me, I don't want that moment to come, because I feel perfectly fine in these conditions.

Great for you!

 

When a woman feels ready to make a great career and good money, pick up a guy who she will support and have kids with him that HE will take care of (be a stay-at-home dad), in other words when roles are reverse from what's considered to be normal nowadays then I will understand that she demands from him to take her last name.

I'm glad you're voicing your opinion so strongly. It's always nice to have it confirmed what we all have suspected - women are inferior and less worth than men.

 

When you don't have a consent, you need to fight for what you believe is right. I remember when women were fighting for rights in the history (right to vote, abortion, etc.) and I can't not admit that they've done a great job. But I think some women go too far and start asking things that they don't need. As they say 'be careful what you wish!'

Go too far? Me simply asking for the reasons why a woman should have to take a man's name and then giving explanations why there are valid objections is considered to be too feministic?

 

I don't regret taking my ex's last name, now I have the same name as my children, and if I re-marry I will do it again.

What does it matter if you have the same name as your children now when you re-marry? Are they going to change their names, too?

 

But I understand the point of those women who are generally bitter at men.

I think I'm still not that old and not that loaded with bad experiences to have a too many reasons to be bitter. But I can imagine that these things may come when you get older and you shouldn't revel in the belief that you're above such bad experiences. The separation from your ex-husband will surely not compare to the bitterness you would feel should your current boyfriend decide to leave you. I doubt that you had such high hopes in your ex-partner as you have now with the new one.

 

I am not a feminist, it's against my nature

I seriously wonder when being a feminist became such an insult.

 

Originally posted by SoftDrink

actually, yes, i did...but your bitterness clouds your perception.

 

life's fun, try having one.

As I said, thanks for your comment. I'm not sure what else you're looking for here.

[Outcast]

I seriously wonder when being a feminist became such an insult.

 

It's not. But small-minded people think it's one.

[Grinning Maniac]

"I seriously wonder when being a feminist became such an insult."

 

Answer: It became an insult when women started to lose historical perspective, forgot that they truly have it good in present-day culture, as opposed to a time where women were *literally* someone else's property, and thus, started to rally against every insignificant little thing that they didn't like about this *supposedly* male-dominated society.

 

Allow me to elaborate further.

 

Being a feminist in 2005 is the "Idiot Badge", because there is no struggle for women's rights. You already have rights. You have a lot of them, actually. You've had them for quite a while. Did I miss a day in school somewhere? Women can vote, women can persue their dreams, women can get rich, women can get *wealthy*, women are pandered to by the entertainment industry, women can make financial decisions in a household, women can hold powerful political and corporate positions. Women can get half of our stuff if they want a divorce. Women can even falsely cry rape and have a man imprisoned (and subsequently, raped for real). There is absolutely nothing for you to rally against anymore. NOTHING. Sit down. Shut up. Feminism is outdated and useless. The term is an insult because this "fighting over crumbs" mentality demeans those women who actually fought for you to be recognized as fellow citizens. Them I can respect. All of their frustration was justified. Yours isn't. Current day feminism is a joke.

 

That's why these days, you only see petty little complaints about insignificant crap, such as... changing your last names. Oh my...men would like you to change your name to reflect your commitment made to the relationship and the family unit you've both created? THOSE AWFUL CADS! BRUTES! They're Neanderthals! Give me a freaking break... You get an overpriced and utterly frivolous ring, a fancy wedding ceremony attemping to recreate a Disney bull**** fantasy you've had since age 10, a house, extra income...and you're complaining about having to change your name? Cry me a river, lady. Who's getting the short end of the stick here?

 

Modern "feminists" are trying to hold on to some imaginary battle in a culture that already accepts women. It's rediculous. Women have an unimaginable amount of freedom these days...and some of you are still bitching and moaning! Tell me something. How are women currently being oppressed in ANY way? Women appear to have more rights than men actually do, if you want to nitpick. Before much longer, there will be "masculinists" popping up trying to get our collective balls back. You all have it good. Stop your damned whining. Being a feminist makes about much sense as me trying to fight against the evils of black slavery. "OH NO, BOSSMAN CARLSON! I'S SORRY! PLEASE SUH, DONT LYNCH ME, SUH! ILL'S NEVER RUN AWAY AGAIN!"

 

Women who fought to vote and have jobs were feminists.

Women who fought against getting beat to death by husbands were feminists.

Women squabbling over changing their last names in a marriage, or "the misogyny of Grand Theft Auto", are WHINERS.

 

Face it, even gays have it worse than you do. You don't have to pretend you're a man just so you can be accepted by your family. No one's itching to stomp your face into a curb just for being female. On the other hand, I've heard many religious zealots and bigots in general say a lot of seriously disturbing **** about "killing the dirty fags". Not even dykes have to worry about that sort of insanity. Why? Because the reverend and his good ol' boys are beating off to lesbo porn after playing "smear the queer". Give it up. Women have it easy. Feminism succeeded (in some ways, too well) but it is now a dead horse.

 

So basically... SIT DOWN AND STOP WHINING.

 

 

PS: Yes I know the topic was a hypothetical (at least I thought so) but sue me, I found this long winded topic hilarious.

[Outcast]

The point made by several of us is that this has nothing whatsoever to do with feminism. So thanks for the rant but it's only about whether traditions should stay traditions for all time 'just because' or whether some should be abandoned in some cases.

 

And you try getting partnership in a mostly male law firm as a woman and then come back and say that both genders are treated equally these days.

 

My guess: you're pretty young and haven't actually worked for a living.

[loony]

I shouldn't reply to kiddy posts that are full with ignorance but your youthful energy just warms my heart.

 

Originally posted by Grinning Maniac

Oh my...men would like you to change your name to reflect your commitment made to the relationship and the family unit you've both created?

As we are always talking about people denying facts and reality, how many women do you think are out there who left their children, their family opposed to men doing this? For whom do you think it's easier to leave, for the person who decided to carry the child for nine months in her womb or for the guy who only had to stick his procreating instrument in her till he came? Who do you think is more concerned about being left alone with children? Men or women?

 

THOSE AWFUL CADS! BRUTES! They're Neanderthals! Give me a freaking break... You get an overpriced and utterly frivolous ring, a fancy wedding ceremony attemping to recreate a Disney bull**** fantasy you've had since age 10, a house, extra income...and you're complaining about having to change your name? Cry me a river, lady. Who's getting the short end of the stick here?

See, you should read all posts before you post such bullsh*t. But you're forgiven, most people didn't on this thread.

 

Women who fought to vote and have jobs were feminists.

Cool, it would be nice now if they also got the same salaries and possibilities for promotions as men do. Don't tell me that as a woman you don't have to be a lot better to achieve the same position as a man.

 

Women who fought against getting beat to death by husbands were feminists.

You don't believe that domestic violence exists?

 

Women squabbling over changing their last names in a marriage, or "the misogyny of Grand Theft Auto", are WHINERS.

No, they just think that some people are too stupid to follow discussions in their entirety and use threads like to display their rhetorical brilliance without offering any real substance behind it. Your posts are fun to read, their so full with witty and inspiring remarks, if you want to convince thought you should better work on your arguments because great wrappings will not make up for the disappointment if the content is only hot air. Next time please, try to find someone else whom you can bash with your superior intellectuality, ok?

 

PS: Yes I know the topic was a hypothetical (at least I thought so) but sue me, I found this long winded topic hilarious.

How can you find something funny if you didn't understand it?

[lindya]

Answer: Being a feminist in 2005 is the "Idiot Badge", because there is no struggle for women's rights.... Stop your damned whining. Being a feminist makes about much sense as me trying to fight against the evils of black slavery. "OH NO, BOSSMAN CARLSON! I'S SORRY! PLEASE SUH, DONT LYNCH ME, SUH! ILL'S NEVER RUN AWAY AGAIN!"

 

A feminist, to my mind, seeks to encourage misogynist thinkers to question their entrenched, negative views about women. She might try to do so by using gentle, objective reasoning. Unfortunately, that approach is often ignored or taken as a sign of weakness by the more aggressive male...so more radical feminists will use a tough, loud approach, and they'll shrug off the fact that many men don't find them sexy or appealing for doing so.

 

Rights can be transient things - easily lost or undermined if you don't carry on standing up for them. A fair number of women out there aren't very good at standing up to men or disagreeing with them. They fear being ridiculed as a feminist, told that they're strident and unfeminine ...or, in the worst cases, subjected to verbal and physical aggression by partners who expect a woman to "know her place" and "stop her damned whining".

[tanbark813]

I don't know. loony seems to be the most aggressive one in this thread and the most intolerant of differing opinions. Just because a woman disagrees with a man doesn't automatically make that man misogynist, threatened, or bitter.

[Outcast]

I don't know. loony seems to be the most aggressive one in this thread and the most intolerant of differing opinions. Just because a woman disagrees with a man doesn't automatically make that man misogynist, threatened, or bitter

 

Thanks for the splendid example of how 'macho' men react when women stand up for themselves. Loony has stated her opinion without insult or offense and has backed up her reasons for presenting it steadfastly. And she has refused to stand down. Funny, when it's a male president and his opinion has been proven baseless and without merit, his insistence on sticking to it is 'resolute'. Not the same for women.

 

[loony]

I don't know. loony seems to be the most aggressive one in this thread and the most intolerant of differing opinions. Just because a woman disagrees with a man doesn't automatically make that man misogynist, threatened, or bitter.

Just because a woman has a differing view doesn't make her a bitter feminist either. I have a different opinion and the only thing I hear coming from you guys is "you're bitter and you're this and that". In fact that's the main thing you have posted as far as now.

 

You don't like my point of view and you believe in something else? - Great for you! And what else are you trying to prove here? That my question is not valid because you don't like my opinion?

[tanbark813]

Just because a woman has a differing view doesn't make her a bitter feminist either. I have a different opinion and the only thing I hear coming from you guys is "you're bitter and you're this and that". In fact that's the main thing you have posted as far as now.

 

Uhhhh.. You have got to be kidding. Look back over my responses. Nowhere in there call you bitter or insinuate anything like that. That's not the main thing I have posted. The main thing I have posted are the reasons why I believe the woman should take the man's last name.

 

You asked a question. I answered. Then you spout off about how bitter and threatened all males are. Please.

 

You don't like my point of view and you believe in something else? - Great for you! And what else are you trying to prove here? That my question is not valid because you don't like my opinion?

 

No. I don't know if you're aware of this, but you posted the question on a message board. I'm simply contributing. If you don't want to hear answers, don't post a question.

 

I'm starting to understand the reasoning behind your username.

[loony]

Then you spout off about how bitter and threatened all males are. Please.

Boy, I must have been really mistaken about some of the replies that people gave me. If you judge me, please go over the other posts as well, ok?

 

No. I don't know if you're aware of this, but you posted the question on a message board. I'm simply contributing. If you don't want to hear answers, don't post a question.

And what does calling me "aggressive" and "intolerant" have to do with my question?

 

I'm starting to understand the reasoning behind your username.

And I assume you have a tan and bark?

[tanbark813]

Boy, I must have been really mistaken about some of the replies that people gave me. If you judge me, please go over the other posts as well, ok?

 

I'm not concerned about the other answers you've received. I'm saying that not all men want their woman to take their name out of a sense of bitterness or feeling threatened.

 

And what does calling me "aggressive" and "intolerant" have to do with my question?

 

That was more directed to your response to the answers you've received.