Welp, not new to this, but finally decided to say something.

[Far]

Unfortunately, this was my experience as well. 8 years in, XH cheated. I stayed, same thing - never would he do it again. 13 years later and after I had cared for him through illness and transplant surgery AND handled the financial affairs for our family, he did it again. I divorced him.

 

He admitted that while he was with new gf, as they were having some problems and deciding whether to stay together or not, he was looking at other women on line and she discovered it. I say admitted, but he didn't seem particularly bothered by it.

 

Do I think he regrets breaking up his family and losing all that we did? Yes. Has he said so? Yes. Would I trust him again. Emphatically, no.

 

He cheated on me when things were good and then he cheated on me when things were stressful. What's left? I'm not sure I believe once a cheater, always a cheater, but I do think there are people out there who do not do it the first time. Think about how much it takes to lie to your spouses face, gaslight them and actually blame them for your issues.

 

Anyway, that is my 2 cents. Best of luck to you. Give yourself time to get over this and you will find some happiness in your future.

 

Thank you, Steen719. I'm definitely taking what you and S2B have stated to heart. I find experience holds more solidity. I'm very sorry that happened to you. You have my deepest empathy.

[Far]

Many people have done this with the same results. I think the

odds are in your favor because your WW has done the work

to make herself a better person.

 

Though I would not do so without a pre nup and maybe not

even marry her just move back together for a long, long time,

if never to marry.

 

Move slow, as if you just met. Go on dates and see how things

work.

 

Thanks, road. A prenuptial never even entered my mind. I've noted it down.

[Far]

If you can live with the fact that she gave what you held so precious to another man so easily. What are you getting back, will it feel like some else's leftovers? Like road has already stated, don't even think about it without a brutal prenuptial in place giving you almost everything if there is a new infidelity. Her word meant nothing then whats different now?

 

Thank you, aliveagain, for your two cents. I have a deep respect for and your efforts on these forums. You summed up her betrayal perfectly. I don't think it will feel like someone's leftovers, though. To be fair, our marriage had run its course. It's done. If (by some chance) we did attempt another relationship, it wouldn't feel right for me to see it that way. But maybe that's exactly what it is? I've taken note of the prenuptial (is it that brutal?). I completely agree that her words are meaningless--told her as much, too.

[Far]

OP, have you ever posted anywhere else?

 

GoldenR, no, I have never posted anywhere else. I was nervous about posting here so I had been lurking around since August. IC Advised me to post here so I can speak to people who have experience in infidelity and get a better perspective of what I want in the future. I wasn't sure it was a good idea because I didn't want people I know finding out and relaying it to my ex. But after some time and ex's persistent "let's try again" hints, I felt like I needed this. This is also the first time I've ever written my story out and it felt good to let it all out in the open.

[Far]

This thing you think you two will have.... it won't be like that. You'd be signing up for a lifetime of triggers, suspicions, feigned trust, mind movies, and unanswered questions that will either haunt you, or make you nauseous.

 

What you want is what you THOUGHT you had the first time. She sailed that ship right into an iceberg bro.

 

Maybe she's different now. Maybe not. But let the next guy find out. Not you.

 

Thanks, TrustedthenBusted. I guess I didn't want to hear that cause it made downtrodden, but I needed to see reality and this makes so much sense. I will definitely keep this in mind. I'm starting to believe it's better for everyone involved if we did start seeing other people.

[Far]

First, let me tell you that your story has touched me deeply. It's the interesting story, and mainly the special taleted way you wrote it.

 

I think that the "NO" choice, isn't 100%. There aren't enough facts and analyzing intelligence to figure out which decision to take in a reasonable amount of certaincy. When you're convinced with that, you'll be able to stop analyzing and thinking about it. Any path you go, it's 50% right and 50% wrong.

 

So, after you eliminate the "thinking" tool, you're left only with the "feeling" one. What do you want to do? How do you feel about it. I didn't ask "what are you're afraid of", but "what is your desire?"

 

After figuring this out, do it! :-) And to hell with everything. Life is too short for too much thinking...

 

If you still don't know, I would try dating first... to have sex with other women, and maybe more than sex... Then watch how determine is your ex to go back together with you, and how determine are your to get back together with her.

 

You might loose her for ever when she sees that you have moved on, but hey... What have you got to lose?

 

Lol! Ex always said I had a way with words. Thank you very much, lolablue17. I'm definitely considering dating other women (more to get back on my feet and give the best to that relationship). I'm still a bit undecided, but I'm leaning more to that. I don't want to test her, though. If I'm in a new relationship, she shouldn't have any influence on it.

[Far]

It's hard to let go. FOO issues run very deep.

 

The thing is. The capability for her to cheat again is there. Make no mistake.

 

Ask yourself this question. Knowing what you know now. Would you marry her again?

 

Why?/ Why not? Make a list of pros/cons.

 

You've used your head for the most part. IMO a good thing. Hearts can betray you.

 

Infidelity scars. It'll always be there to some extent.

 

Sorry you had this happen.

 

Thanks, Marc878. I'm making the list now. I think I used my head mostly because my heart was pretty much shattered. And yeah, I think about what she did to me... obsessively sometimes.

[Marc878]

May I ask what gaslighting is?

 

Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, hoping to make them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the target and delegitimize the target's belief.

 

Cheating always has a high degree of lying, hiding, denying and deceit.

 

Something you probably never suspected or even though she could do.

[Marc878]

IMO once your head is cleared and you're ready you owe it to yourself to date. See what's out there. With your newfound wisdom and experience.

 

I wouldn't worry about losing her forever. She already left once anyway didn't she?

 

The important thing is don't lose yourself in this.

[Far]

There is a lot of regret in a cold divorce. My approach was cold, almost robotic. Had her served at work, I asked for a two hour head start...needed two hours and fifteen minutes. I got the call that they were about to serve her, I rushed home to gather up my stuff, but she started blowing up my phone then caught me loading stuff up...

 

Leading up, she knew something was off. She became very clingy and every day for several weeks wanted to have the "are we ok" conversation. I went along. "Everything is fine" or "we'll be ok" or "it's going as good as we can expect". It seemed to offer her a small level of comfort. In hindsight, I wish I had have handled it differently. I wish I had sat her down and explained to her I couldn't continue the Marriage and why.

 

The confrontation with a $h!t show. She was a mess, "your a f'n lair, you said everything was fine, I hate you how can you do this, what about the kids". At that point I was disconnected almost like I was watching the whole thing on TV. I just stood there with no emotions. At one point she sat behind my car in the driveway to prevent me from leaving.

 

The problem, that 30 or so minutes haunted me, and still does to this day. I was angry, but she still deserved more then that from me. This is the woman I went to high school prom with, a woman who I can't remember not being in my life, the mother of my children.

 

My actions made me feel better while I was planning it, now? Only regrets.

 

And I had just been talking to Just a Guy about you. Thank you, good sir, for taking the time to provide your wisdom. I'm honestly surprised. I have followed you and your wife's journey and it honestly brought tears to my eyes how much you've both been through. You've made me believe in real love, not true love, but the real thing.

 

I can understand exactly where you're coming from. As "levelheaded" as I was in divorcing my ex, my mind wasn't really all there. So many things happening. Now that the dust has cleared, I do wish I did a lot of things differently, too. It's something I need to learn to live with, as are you.

 

Wish you and your wife continued happiness.

[Furious]

Far

 

Your post conveys both your strength and vulnerability. The reality is Divorce or Reconciliation are not quick fixes.

 

The adrenaline that served you throughout the discovery process and the divorce process has drained you and it's normal to second guess yourself and your ex-wife's feelings.

 

It's normal to feel apprehensive about future relationships and trusting other's or trusting yourself. I think this may be why you seem stuck and considering getting back with your ex.

 

The thing that stands out is that you don't have children and that in itself offers you a clean break and clean start. Betrayal does damage self esteem and can leave deep scars. Sometimes it can feel like there's so much healing and so much sadness to get through that is seems overwhelming and maybe the thought of getting back with your ex is like getting back to your old self.

 

It's strange that sometimes the person who hurts you the most is the person you seek to comfort you.

 

At your age and no children to co-parent you might look back and regret not giving yourself the chance to find a woman that will love you, honor and respect you.

[DKT3]

And I had just been talking to Just a Guy about you. Thank you, good sir, for taking the time to provide your wisdom. I'm honestly surprised. I have followed you and your wife's journey and it honestly brought tears to my eyes how much you've both been through. You've made me believe in real love, not true love, but the real thing.

 

I can understand exactly where you're coming from. As "levelheaded" as I was in divorcing my ex, my mind wasn't really all there. So many things happening. Now that the dust has cleared, I do wish I did a lot of things differently, too. It's something I need to learn to live with, as are you.

 

Wish you and your wife continued happiness.

 

I'm glad our story could help.

 

This are difficult times. For us, along the way we (she) had some health scares that really put it all into perspective sitting in a waiting room for 16 hours worrying kinda makes some things pale in comparison.

 

Divorce does not have to mean the end. But if it is, you shouldn't feel guilt for doing what you felt was what you had to do for you.

 

However, it sounds like you are actually considering another go, if that is the case, one of the things we found really beneficial was sitting aside time to discuss affair related stuff and then doing your best to only use that time. This will allow you to reconnect and still deal with things that will pop up along the way.

 

If you do want to reconnect, then take everything slow, you will still have to deal with those emotions. Try not to become someone else's Trainwreck.

[darkbloom]

Hmmm... you've been to the Dark Side. Lol! Just kidding. Thank you very much, darkbloom! It's very helpful hearing from someone who's actually been there and seen this sh*** happening firsthand. I don't even know much about OM (aside from the fact that he's no longer working anywhere near my ex). Still, this is really helpful stuff to understand what my ex's mindset might have been. Oh, yes, I know all about how little respect (if at all) ex had for me. I've experienced the selfishness for myself. I'm well aware what a complete *ahem* she is for doing this to me. I'm pretty sure that in the beginning, she was sorry that she was caught. After the divorce, I'm not quite sure because I don't see her much. She has never asked for forgiveness. She has told me she would never ask for it because it has to be something I want to give out of my own volition. I do forgive her (need to tell her that, don't I?). She has told me that she will never forgive herself (her problem, really).

 

May I ask what gaslighting is?

 

To be fair, my MM wasn't married yet. They were engaged when all of this happened for me. I told him once he got married that it was over for good. And I've stuck by that. He has attempted to get back into contact with me, calling and texting, and it would be SO easy to cross those lines again. I would never be able to trust him 100% after such a crap start to our relationship. Imagine if his wife found out about what happened before the wedding and then found out that he's still trying to get back into a relationship with me? I have been watching his pattern of lies and deceit and I just don't think he can change.

 

My biggest red flag is that she hasn't asked for you to forgive her and that you had to find out after she lied and manipulated you. Her reasoning is bs.

 

Gaslighting is what your wife did to you when she told you that you weren't sharing your feelings and tried to make it seem like it was your fault the marriage had issues to throw you off what she was doing. It's a form of abuse.

[S2B]

Your post stood out to me, S2B. Seeing it from someone's experience really puts things in a different light. I thought about a future where I'd worry about this happening to me all the time. My heart goes out to you. You're a strong woman and I appreciate every sentiment. Yes, I understand exactly what you're saying. You've given me a lot to think about. I don't think I could ever stand the fact that I could be cheated on again by the same person I chose to stay with. It would kill me, to be honest.

 

I don't love myself as much as I used to anymore. It's like I can't trust myself or anyone else. The lying and manipulation really did a number on me (I'm still feeling the effects today). But I'm trying to improve step-by-step to become better from it. If it's not with her, it shouldn't bother me.

 

You will love and trust again... when someone earns your trust and proves they don't intend to break it apart.

 

The character flaw is hers - not yours. Don't allow her to drag down your dreams and a happy future.

 

If needed - don't hesitate to get ideas from a counselor to help you to trust again.

[drifter777]

When a couple break-up, many men torture themselves with feelings of love they never felt for her while they were together. It's like our mind pours our memories through a filter and removes the bad stuff in order to lessen our continued pain. I think it has something to do with trying to rebuild our self-esteem and repair our ego. Like we want a do-over with her in order to change how things turned out...and that couldn't happen if we faced reality. With this in mind I believe you need to fight this urge to sooth your painful wounds with the very acid that caused them. You can't go back and "fix" this. The love you think you feel now is just an ache and a longing for what you thought you had. It was far from perfect then and it's just a fantasy now. You are simply still recovering and, like all of us, looking for that shortcut to happiness. Moving on with your life is hard and there are no shortcuts. Good luck.

[S2B]

You ok Far?

[merrmeade]

Far

 

Your post conveys both your strength and vulnerability. The reality is Divorce or Reconciliation are not quick fixes.

 

The adrenaline that served you throughout the discovery process and the divorce process has drained you and it's normal to second guess yourself and your ex-wife's feelings.

 

It's normal to feel apprehensive about future relationships and trusting other's or trusting yourself. I think this may be why you seem stuck and considering getting back with your ex.

 

The thing that stands out is that you don't have children and that in itself offers you a clean break and clean start. Betrayal does damage self esteem and can leave deep scars. Sometimes it can feel like there's so much healing and so much sadness to get through that is seems overwhelming and maybe the thought of getting back with your ex is like getting back to your old self.

 

It's strange that sometimes the person who hurts you the most is the person you seek to comfort you.

 

At your age and no children to co-parent you might look back and regret not giving yourself the chance to find a woman that will love you, honor and respect you.

I, too, find your narrative deeply moving for your effort and ability to convey the full range of the betrayal experience even though you're clearly far from recovered. It's compelling, too, for all that and our own on-going, disparate efforts to recover but, especially, for the rawness and immediacy of your still open choices. We want you to succeed but we really can't any of us be completely convinced we know what's right for you.

 

And so I find myself agreeing with most of the suggestions even those that appear to conflict - because there's some truth of the reality you'd experience in all of them. But that's also why I think - it's too soon. You need time for more self-reflection and recovery to make this decision. Do you really have to decide right now? What will happen if you tell her that you can't promise anything one way or the other, but - if she's really sincere about making it up to, living for you, or whatever way she's put it - then she'll give you your space and let you feel your way to the future. If she can't do that, well, then there's your answer and you can really start to recover. If she can, then she'll release the pressure and give you the distance you need to find your way without having her press her case in your face at every turn.

 

Oh, and by the way, what IS she doing to repair herself during this time? Is she in IC? Part of that waiting on her part would have to be filled with lots of IC. That's non-negotiable.

 

To me, far, you just sound too raw; like it's just too soon. I don't know this for sure, but it sounds too soon for you to forgive her as well and how could you try to reconcile without even aiming for that eventuality. Also, the bitterness, mistrust and resentment for your having been so faithful yourself will not go away quickly. And like someone said, the relationship will never be what it was.

 

I think you should continue the IC and try to get more peace and strength from your own values and integrity. I think only then will you be able to forgive her actually because you can see what she doesn't have that would have prevented her from doing what she did. Otherwise, I just think it's too soon. You need to take care of you without her muddying the landscape.

[Bufo]

Don't even consider her offer unless and until she can offer you an answer to the questions of what was wrong with her that she decide to cheat on you and lie to you. Without this knowledge you can never expect her to be faithful when the same triggers may set her on the cheating path again. Do you want to live with a ticking time bomb that may or may not explode?

 

Trust what your attorney told you about the relative ease of a "no kids" divorce as opposed to one with kids. It's possible her internal ticking clock provides some incentive for her desire to reconcile. OM might have been an unsuitable bad boy type for parenthood. Fun to f@@k but not the type to marry and have kids with. Do you know anything about him? I'd sure like to know if he is a retread with a prior history with her. If you remarry her you'd be a retread too.

 

Ask your lawyer about prenuptial agreements in your state. You don't want to split your half in half again, do you? Could happen if you remarry, have kids and she becomes SAHM.

 

Good luck and deep thoughts to you.

[Red123]

I have a lot of expectations of a WS before I would ever recommend that someone consider reconciling; they really do have to be truly remorseful. Sounds like she is. And you’d have to be truly forgiving (and go thru the typical 2-5 years for recovery).

 

Would I do it? F*** no.

 

I did it and would never recommend it. My xwh did everything right only to do again but much worse the second time. Had I have walked away after the first time, I would probably be well on my way to being healed, not starting the process.

[Far]

Hey, guys. Just wanted to let people know that I've been around here regularly and will definitely post an update soon. These last few days have been a rollercoaster and I honestly have had it with all the stupid drama I had to deal with from my ex... You know what, let me post a mini update now.

 

So, after repeatedly rereading all the advice that people had given me (thanks again) it became as clear as day that I need to move on. She is not worth any pain or heartache. I recall a poster mentioning me cutting her out of my life. It's not impossible, but we share A LOT of mutual friends. It may not mean much here, however, these people a very close to the both of us and I will never stand to lose them because of her.

 

So, this past weekend a friend of mine was having a little party. Nothing serious (nothing over the top) and I was invited to it. He mentioned that my ex will likely be there as well and I thought it was the perfect moment to put any potential, intimate relationship to bed (the list I made had way too many negatives ). Well, all I can say is that **** hit the fan pretty fast.

 

I went to my friend's place and my ex was predictably there. I mingled a bit with other guests and avoided my ex for a long time. You see, when ex and I are in close proximity, she does her utmost to make sure that she talks to me. It was no different here. She relentlessly tried to get my attention (shouting my name, coming over to where I sat, asking to be alone together). I already planned to tell her that I was moving on regardless of what she did since the divorce. So we talked on the balcony. I almost did double-take at her beauty. One thing ex has going for her is her looks, that's for sure, but I wasn't swayed much when I thought of all those horrible months I was forced to become Sherlock Holmes.

 

Our talk started off...lovely? Not sure how to describe it, but it was like we were a couple. We talked a lot about our future. It was at this point I decided to break the news to her. I told her that it was best for us to see other people.

 

"This again? I already told you that you're the only one."

 

Guys, I'm not sure what happened. But after she said that, I was hugely pissed off. It felt like I snapped out of nowhere.

 

I sarcastically asked where this attitude was when we were married. She was hugely offended. She acknowledged that she was a sh**** wife (my words to her, I'm sorry) but that wasn't who she is anymore. She cannot believe I'm holding a grudge against her--said it was unfair. I told her it was unfair for me to be the butt of the joke that was our marriage. I asked her what she would have done if the situation was reversed. At first, she tried to play the "Saint with no-fault" game and told me she would give me another chance and let the past be the past. But I told her she was firm about commitment. We agreed prior to getting married that if one of us stabbed the other in the back, then our union was over. She gaped like a fish and said nothing for a while. Then she said that she didn't think I would remember that.

 

I told her that I love myself too much to put my future on the line with someone who's shown me that they a capable of anything. No matter what she did now, it will never change the fact that I was her Plan B. Of course, she immediately denied that I was ever Plan B, to which I countered, "Well, f***, the fact that you thought you were never going to get caught AND think you can get me back is just insulting." Needless to say, my party mood was ruined and we ended up arguing about nonsense.

 

I remember I mentioned that ex and I text each other. Well, I'll say it was an interesting conversation a few days after the party. I'm currently overseas on business so I don't have much time to myself. Sorry to end it here, but I will give a full update soon. I just wish this crap would be over already... But it's definitely getting there now.

[lolablue17]

Ok, you probably needed this unnecessary conversation to learn that there is no need for additional talks, it is pointless. Now that you are convinced, you can avoid doing that further more. Next time she gets in your way, you should deny her. "Never talk to me again" might be effective.

 

It's great that you have made up your mind based on your guts feelings. I wish you all the best.

[Marc878]

I sarcastically asked where this attitude was when we were married. She was hugely offended. She acknowledged that she was a sh**** wife (my words to her, I'm sorry) but that wasn't who she is anymore. She cannot believe I'm holding a grudge against her--said it was unfair. I told her it was unfair for me to be the butt of the joke that was our marriage. I asked her what she would have done if the situation was reversed. At first, she tried to play the "Saint with no-fault" game and told me she would give me another chance and let the past be the past. But I told her she was firm about commitment. We agreed prior to getting married that if one of us stabbed the other in the back, then our union was over. She gaped like a fish and said nothing for a while. Then she said that she didn't think I would remember that.

 

Wayward mentality is still there my friend. I had an affair but you have to take me back?

 

I told her that I love myself too much to put my future on the line with someone who's shown me that they a capable of anything. No matter what she did now, it will never change the fact that I was her Plan B. Of course, she immediately denied that I was ever Plan B, to which I countered, "Well, f***, the fact that you thought you were never going to get caught AND think you can get me back is just insulting." Needless to say, my party mood was ruined and we ended up arguing about nonsense.

 

I remember I mentioned that ex and I text each other. Well, I'll say it was an interesting conversation a few days after the party. I'm currently overseas on business so I don't have much time to myself. Sorry to end it here, but I will give a full update soon. I just wish this crap would be over already... But it's definitely getting there now.

 

You should cut out communication or you'll just continue to wallow in this.

 

Who was the other man? Was his wife informed?

[Marc878]

Her attitude is anything but remourseful. It's more like she's entitled to be allowed back.

 

In infidelity there is no guarantee of a second chance.

 

Her demeanor tells you everything you need to know.

 

You deserve it to yourself to date, explore others. When you're ready get started on that path

[Poutrew]

It'll only be over when you stop talking to her. As long as she is getting you to talk, you are playing her game. The most effective thing you can do is the 180. Good luck.

[S2B]

Hey, guys. Just wanted to let people know that I've been around here regularly and will definitely post an update soon. These last few days have been a rollercoaster and I honestly have had it with all the stupid drama I had to deal with from my ex... You know what, let me post a mini update now.

 

So, after repeatedly rereading all the advice that people had given me (thanks again) it became as clear as day that I need to move on. She is not worth any pain or heartache. I recall a poster mentioning me cutting her out of my life. It's not impossible, but we share A LOT of mutual friends. It may not mean much here, however, these people a very close to the both of us and I will never stand to lose them because of her.

 

So, this past weekend a friend of mine was having a little party. Nothing serious (nothing over the top) and I was invited to it. He mentioned that my ex will likely be there as well and I thought it was the perfect moment to put any potential, intimate relationship to bed (the list I made had way too many negatives ). Well, all I can say is that **** hit the fan pretty fast.

 

I went to my friend's place and my ex was predictably there. I mingled a bit with other guests and avoided my ex for a long time. You see, when ex and I are in close proximity, she does her utmost to make sure that she talks to me. It was no different here. She relentlessly tried to get my attention (shouting my name, coming over to where I sat, asking to be alone together). I already planned to tell her that I was moving on regardless of what she did since the divorce. So we talked on the balcony. I almost did double-take at her beauty. One thing ex has going for her is her looks, that's for sure, but I wasn't swayed much when I thought of all those horrible months I was forced to become Sherlock Holmes.

 

Our talk started off...lovely? Not sure how to describe it, but it was like we were a couple. We talked a lot about our future. It was at this point I decided to break the news to her. I told her that it was best for us to see other people.

 

"This again? I already told you that you're the only one."

 

Guys, I'm not sure what happened. But after she said that, I was hugely pissed off. It felt like I snapped out of nowhere.

 

I sarcastically asked where this attitude was when we were married. She was hugely offended. She acknowledged that she was a sh**** wife (my words to her, I'm sorry) but that wasn't who she is anymore. She cannot believe I'm holding a grudge against her--said it was unfair. I told her it was unfair for me to be the butt of the joke that was our marriage. I asked her what she would have done if the situation was reversed. At first, she tried to play the "Saint with no-fault" game and told me she would give me another chance and let the past be the past. But I told her she was firm about commitment. We agreed prior to getting married that if one of us stabbed the other in the back, then our union was over. She gaped like a fish and said nothing for a while. Then she said that she didn't think I would remember that.

 

I told her that I love myself too much to put my future on the line with someone who's shown me that they a capable of anything. No matter what she did now, it will never change the fact that I was her Plan B. Of course, she immediately denied that I was ever Plan B, to which I countered, "Well, f***, the fact that you thought you were never going to get caught AND think you can get me back is just insulting." Needless to say, my party mood was ruined and we ended up arguing about nonsense.

 

I remember I mentioned that ex and I text each other. Well, I'll say it was an interesting conversation a few days after the party. I'm currently overseas on business so I don't have much time to myself. Sorry to end it here, but I will give a full update soon. I just wish this crap would be over already... But it's definitely getting there now.

 

It's time to stop texting her. It's time to completely ignore her in any social setting!

 

Seriously, just look right through her...she's invisible!

 

She can't say anything to set this right - so why bother?

 

She just wasting your time...make it stop!

 

It's up to you to take charge of this. You can only be manipulated if you allow her to - so don't allow it at all.